Technoincubus Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Berries seem to be the new liceloaf as liceloaf are no longer resource-free and hogs dirt, which is a limited resource. Next comes berries, sustainable with infinite geyser water. Downside - you have to organize a water cooling installation to supply berries with cooled water. Shrooms - nerfed a bit but farming slime is still rather hard to organize. You haveto make a branch of lures for pufts tp lock them in some area. Wheat. Was hard o farm, is hardto farm now. Unless you made some extensive supercooling facility, it's one of the best crops as it alone uses other useless fertilizer. SO what is the new food meta in your opinion? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOlz Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Mealwood, then berries, then peppers. When berries are up and running drop mealwood. If the transition from mealwood to berries is hampered for whatever reason, jump into mushrooms. If transition into peppers is hampered, get sleat wheat going. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Early game berries are fairly decent supplement - still trying to figure out how to use everything at my disposal for sleet wheat production. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 15 hours ago, Technoincubus said: Berries seem to be the new liceloaf But berries aren't a noob trap, unlike what liceloaf was (and still is - mush bar is better). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Coolthulhu said: But berries aren't a noob trap, unlike what liceloaf was (and still is - mush bar is better). Not for early game - with them having diarrhea they get interrupted twice as often. Mush fry is just as manageable though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The new update turned the screws on the food expectancy though. Don't think you can get away with mealwood for anything but the lowest job tier dupes now Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 One thing that is nice is that you can make berry sludge, which is a high quality food, for 55kg of water/cycle for each dupe. 6 berry blossoms + 5 sleetwheat results in an average of 1 berry sludge/cycle, which can feed 4 dupes. This is more efficient than Grissle Berries, which I believe is 60 kg of water/cycle for each dupe. Except sleetwheat takes fertilizer, which also consumes polluted water. It is common to create fertilizer as part of a natural gas system, but it still takes some water. If you want to count it, then it takes an extra 21.25 kg of water/cycle per dupe using a fertilizer synthesizer (taking in to account the polluted water you get from the natural gas generator). I recommend supplementing berry sludge with grilled mushrooms if you need more food, which takes 10.7 kg slime/cycle per dupe. The only limiting factor on grilled mushrooms is how many pufts you can herd since they don't take water. Summary: Grissle Berry: 60 kg/cycle of water per dupe, food quality +1 Berry sludge: 55 kg/cycle of water per dupe (+21.25 kg/cycle polluted water per dupe if you count the fertilizer synthesizer cost, but people usually use this for power anyway). Food quality: +3 Grilled Mushrooms: 10.7 kg/cycle of slime. This is renewable based on how many pufts you can herd. Food quality: +1. Please tell me if any of the numbers are wrong. My reaction is that Berry Sludge is the way of the future for truly sustainable bases. I am just happy bristle blossoms don't take 80 kg of water per cycle anymore! EDIT: If you use wild pinchapepper, then they cost no resources. That means that recipes that call for it should take that in to account. Pepper bread: 50 kg/cycle of water per dupe. Quality +5. If you plant 10 sleetwheat, you can make 1 per cycle on average, which can feed 4 dupes. Stuffed Berries: 60 kg/cycle of water per dupe. Quality +4. If you plant 12 brissle berries, then you can make 1 stuffed berry per cycle, which can feed 4 dupes. Frost buns: 50 kg/cycle per dupe. I misread the calories of frost buns, I thought it was 1000 kcal. If you have 3 sleetwheat plants, then you can make 1 per cycle, which can feed 1.2 dupes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 9 hours ago, Saturnus said: The new update turned the screws on the food expectancy though. Don't think you can get away with mealwood for anything but the lowest job tier dupes now You can get away with it, but it is literally stressful. I am at cycle 60 at the moment with some tier 2/3 jobs and the stress of them is a constant battle I think the massage tables are the only reason + lack of decent decor at the moment. I will find out later today when I play more, I have never used anything else so it is about time I have to. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Has anyone noticed that the farmers don't seem to use the farm stations very much? I've been trying to get a decent estimate on how many dupes you need to have farming per farm tile (or how many farm tiles can one farmer cover), but they are ignoring the priority 5 farming station... It has fertilizer and everything, they just aren't using it. I mean, they do for a little bit after loading, but then they stop and never start again. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Zarquan said: Has anyone noticed that the farmers don't seem to use the farm stations very much? I've been trying to get a decent estimate on how many dupes you need to have farming per farm tile (or how many farm tiles can one farmer cover), but they are ignoring the priority 5 farming station... It has fertilizer and everything, they just aren't using it. I mean, they do for a little bit after loading, but then they stop and never start again. My farmers tend to crops etc just about as often as everyone else, which kinda annoys me cuz you would think he would take the task first Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Maybe try taking everyone else off of tending to them? Farmer's only real benefit it the seed drop. Right now, it looks like the farming job itself has only the benfit of increased seed drop. Hopefully they'll elaborate on it and have farmers buff the growth speed - this would cut down on some of the more valuable resources being used. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottFree Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The new food meta to me isn't the food quality, its quantity Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloy2030 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 15 hours ago, Zarquan said: The only limiting factor on grilled mushrooms is how many pufts you can herd since they don't take water. well, they do, 10.7 kg water/clycle. Slime doesnt come from "air" (pun intended). It comes from pulluted air which comes from polluted water on a one to one ratio, so... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 19 hours ago, Saturnus said: The new update turned the screws on the food expectancy though. Don't think you can get away with mealwood for anything but the lowest job tier dupes now You can, it's just stress. If you're willing to put up with showers of vomit and tears and have removed all destructives, stress reactions aren't that much of a big deal, provided you have the calories to spare. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickrush Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said: You can, it's just stress. If you're willing to put up with showers of vomit and tears and have removed all destructives, stress reactions aren't that much of a big deal, provided you have the calories to spare. I'am pretty sure you can manage with just berry sludge or frost buns and high decor plus massage table backup. Dupes don't have stress reactions when there are free tables available as far as I know. Decor above expectations will decrease stress over time, so it can make up for below expectation food I think. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciej75 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 29.01.2018 at 7:43 AM, Technoincubus said: Next comes berries, sustainable with infinite geyser water. Is it realistically sustainable after update? I just tried for two days to organize system of cooling of geyser water (official version) for Bristle Berries and I gave up. It used all my Natural gas from geyser plus some Manual Generators to power Thermo Aquatuner and life support at same time. And almost whole water was spend on two meals, so cooling needs to work non-stop. Then, I added diesel generator (whatever it is called), but it drinks petrol like crazy. So I added two Refineries (small overproduction for plastic). And then I found, that just a few meal further, I used up half of my oil patch. So I gave up. Cooling water from geyser is pointless for me if berries considered. I will eventually base farming it on Polluted water cleaning (from patches here and there). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 hours ago, ScottFree said: The new food meta to me isn't the food quality, its quantity Yup. A vomit comet just needs loads of raw meal lice Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 hours ago, eloy2030 said: well, they do, 10.7 kg water/clycle. Slime doesnt come from "air" (pun intended). It comes from pulluted air which comes from polluted water on a one to one ratio, so... I give my pufts polluted o2 from morbs, which I create using outhouses. That means it is only a one time cost of water, not a continual drain. 2 hours ago, ScottFree said: The new food meta to me isn't the food quality, its quantity The best quantity is quality. You can make more kcals in berry sludge than frost buns or grissle berries with the same amount of water. And the more expensive foods are even worse and are inherently not sustainable. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, Maciej75 said: Is it realistically sustainable after update? 20kg/cycle per berry, 6 cycles per berry, 1600kcal per berry - 20kg/cycle * 6 cycles / 1.6 meals = 75kg per cycle per dupe. If you're cooling pure geyser water, you need to run the water through aquatuner 5 times to bring it down from ~97C to ~27C. So you need to run it for 5 seconds per 10kg of water. 75kg / 10kg/s * 5s * 1200 J/s = 45kJ - energy cost of one berry meal (not counting pumps and light). 45kJ / 600s = 75W. So a single gas generator can cool enough water for 10 dupes fed raw berries. This probably gets better if you cook them. This sounds totally sustainable to me. You can cut down the cooling cost by almost 30% by aquatuning polluted water instead of fresh water. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said: 20kg/cycle per berry, 6 cycles per berry, 1600kcal per berry - 20kg/cycle * 6 cycles / 1.6 meals = 75kg per cycle per dupe. You forgot to cook your berries. Cooking to grissle berries increase the kcal count from 1600 to 2000. That means 20 kg/cycle*6 cycles/2 meals = 60 kg per dupe. If you are planning on boiling polluted water, you can also run a heat exchanger to both heat the polluted water and cool the hot water for free! That can significantly reduce your aquatuner count. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickrush Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Not to mention that you can pre cool the pure water by exchanging heat with polluted water from power plants which should be around 40°C hot. Hot polluted water is a good thing because you can either boil it cheaply, clean it with sieves (40°C fixed output) or consume it with fertilizer makers, so the heat magically disapears. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said: 20kg/cycle per berry, 6 cycles per berry, 1600kcal per berry - 20kg/cycle * 6 cycles / 1.6 meals = 75kg per cycle per dupe. If you're cooling pure geyser water, you need to run the water through aquatuner 5 times to bring it down from ~97C to ~27C. So you need to run it for 5 seconds per 10kg of water. 75kg / 10kg/s * 5s * 1200 J/s = 45kJ - energy cost of one berry meal (not counting pumps and light). 45kJ / 600s = 75W. So a single gas generator can cool enough water for 10 dupes fed raw berries. This probably gets better if you cook them. This sounds totally sustainable to me. You can cut down the cooling cost by almost 30% by aquatuning polluted water instead of fresh water. Using the Borg Cube you can cool it much more efficiently than that though. Currently I use 82W on average to cool a geyser down to 20C output temperature. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Saturnus said: Using the Borg Cube you can cool it much more efficiently than that though. Currently I use 82W on average to cool a geyser down to 20C output temperature. I don't want to grow too reliant on that thing, as I bet it will be fixed in the future. At these power levels, it is almost inconsequential anyway. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Zarquan said: I don't want to grow too reliant on that thing, as I bet it will be fixed in the future. At these power levels, it is almost inconsequential anyway. Yeah. It's basically 0.033J per kg. If it gets nerfed somehow then we'll probably find something else that might not be as effective but vastly superior to any machine in the game. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciej75 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Thanks, so this should work. Maybe I need to check heat "lost" on long pipes. 1 hour ago, Coolthulhu said: 75kg / 10kg/s * 5s * 1200 J/s = 45kJ - energy cost of one berry meal (not counting pumps and light). Your unit is J*s thou (second is three times in equation). You should write "75kg / 10kg/s *5". "5" five is number of times and do not have units, this "5" is from "75C / 15C", so no unit. But calculations are great example for me, I need to look on my systems. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86892-new-food-meta/#findComment-997697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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