New food meta?

[Technoincubus]

It all ends with your ability to cool down steam geyser water it seems. As it will be major factorin reaching acceptable temperature

[eloy2030]

13 hours ago, Zarquan said:

I give my pufts polluted o2 from morbs, which I create using outhouses.  That means it is only a one time cost of water, not a continual drain

Fair enough, still, I wonder how many morbs u need to feed a few dupes... let say 3-5? (considering other food for other dupes).

13 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

You can cut down the cooling cost by almost 30% by aquatuning polluted water instead of fresh water.

how do u turn that much water into polluted?

[Saturnus]

50 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

how do u turn that much water into polluted?

By using another "exploit". Put a liquid vent on the bottom of a pool of polluted water (but not so deep the vent will overpressurize obviously) and pump in clean water. It will magically turn into polluted water instantly.

[Zarquan]

5 hours ago, eloy2030 said:

Fair enough, still, I wonder how many morbs u need to feed a few dupes... let say 3-5? (considering other food for other dupes).

The thing is that the number of morbs you have is essentially unlimited.  All you need to do is leave an outhouse full and don't clean it and you get three more morbs.

[Maciej75]

5 hours ago, eloy2030 said:

how do u turn that much water into polluted?

I started saving world from the greenhouse effect by removing external CO2 from cave next to my base 

 

[Saturnus]

25 minutes ago, Maciej75 said:

I started saving world from the greenhouse effect by removing external CO2 from cave next to my base 

You are destroying Slickster food? Right, I'm calling the GETVA (Gamers for the Ethical Treatment of Virtual Animals) on you.

[Zarquan]

See, with polluted water, I have an opposite problem.  I need to convert it to water to feed the plants efficiently while still keeping it cool.  But I also want to be sustainable and don't want to use sand...

[Saturnus]

10 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

See, with polluted water, I have an opposite problem.  I need to convert it to water to feed the plants efficiently while still keeping it cool.  But I also want to be sustainable and don't want to use sand...

Sand is renewable though. You can make sand just as you can make dirt but because you need 1000s of times less sand than dirt you can actually make that work.

A high efficiency boiler is the ultimate solution though. My pre automation update 10kg/s distiller still works fine and even more efficient now with automation. You can easily stabilize output temperature to 20C by making a few minor chances.

 

[Maciej75]

12 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I'm calling the GETVA

No, do not do this! They may find, that my very first Slickster, that I was petting in basement of my base, died (probably from underheating).

[eloy2030]

1 hour ago, Zarquan said:

The thing is that the number of morbs you have is essentially unlimited.  All you need to do is leave an outhouse full and don't clean it and you get three more morbs.

yeah, I know that... have u done the math thought?

 

6 hours ago, Saturnus said:

By using another "exploit". Put a liquid vent on the bottom of a pool of polluted water (but not so deep the vent will overpressurize obviously) and pump in clean water. It will magically turn into polluted water instantly.

tks, I didnt know that! 

 

still, another exploit... 

[Zarquan]

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

Sand is renewable though. You can make sand just as you can make dirt but because you need 1000s of times less sand than dirt you can actually make that work.

A high efficiency boiler is the ultimate solution though. My pre automation update 10kg/s distiller still works fine and even more efficient now with automation. You can easily stabilize output temperature to 20C by making a few minor chances.

 

I thought making sand from dirt took temperatures higher than we could create in game other than magma.

I know I can create a boiler, but it is hard to fit it in my base.  Plus, I also need to cool the water down so I can give it to sleet wheat without overheating it but I want to avoid the drip cooling bug.

34 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

yeah, I know that... have u done the math thought?

I haven't actually done very many experiments with animals, but as I understand, 15 duplicants using outhouses produces more than enough morbs to provide oxygen for every dupe that comes out of the printer.  I only need a static amount of morbs for the pufts, so I keep all the morbs in the same room.  As long as I overproduce, the specific ratios don't really matter.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Zarquan said:

I thought making sand from dirt took temperatures higher than we could create in game other than magma.

I know I can create a boiler, but it is hard to fit it in my base.  Plus, I also need to cool the water down and I want to avoid the drip cooling bug so I can give it to sleet wheat. without overheating it.

As I said you can easily adjust the boiler by limiting output to 8kg/s and have it output water at 5C stable without using any exploits at all.

There is a tiny bit of heat deletion going on in the heat exchanger but it's completely unavoidable due to how the game works. I've done every possible thing I can to minimize where it can happen, and where it is completely unavoidable maximize its effect.

Note that this is a pre-automation build so there's huge potential for improving efficiency by using materials that wasn't available back then like tungsten pipes and metal tiles. 

[The Plum Gate]

Hah, now I'm finding stuffed berry to be the middle ground between liceloaf and berry mash since i don't have the wheat even remotely handled - pinchapepper has been raining down all over thanks to natural abundance.

[Zarquan]

10 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

Hah, now I'm finding stuffed berry to be the middle ground between liceloaf and berry mash since i don't have the wheat even remotely handled - pinchapepper has been raining down all over thanks to natural abundance.

I hadn't considered that they reduced the natural growth rate of pinchapepper nuts.  That changes things and makes me want to avoid digging up natural pinchapepper.  I used to not care because cooking hurt the colony, but if you have free pinchapepper, then you can eat pepper bread for 50 kg water/cycle. 

Honestly, stuffed berries aren't worth it though.  Unless your dupes demand that type of food I guess.  Brissle Berry --> Grissle Berry adds the same amount of calories per brissle berry as brissle berry --> stuffed berry, but the stuffed berry takes pinchapepper.  I suppose if you have an excess of pinchapepper you might as well make the stuffed berry, but it is just extra work.  I guess it might reduce cooking time since you are cooking one thing instead of two, but then you have to go out and get pinchapepper nuts, which are not convenient to get.

[The Plum Gate]

16 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

I hadn't considered that they reduced the natural growth rate of pinchapepper nuts.  That changes things and makes me want to avoid digging up natural pinchapepper.  I used to not care because cooking hurt the colony, but if you have free pinchapepper, then you can eat pepper bread for 50 kg water/cycle. 

Honestly, stuffed berries aren't worth it though.  Unless your dupes demand that type of food I guess.  Brissle Berry --> Grissle Berry adds the same amount of calories per brissle berry as brissle berry --> stuffed berry, but the stuffed berry takes pinchapepper.  I suppose if you have an excess of pinchapepper you might as well make the stuffed berry, but it is just extra work.  I guess it might reduce cooking time since you are cooking one thing instead of two, but then you have to go out and get pinchapepper nuts, which are not convenient to get.

Getting the pinchappers isnt all that difficult for me, l usualy venture through that area to get around slime in the early game - that fact that berry mash uses half the berries of the stuffed berry recipe makes it worthwhile. But I don't have access to wheat at the moment - stuffed berry adds about 200 more calories than just cooking the berries - so I guess 100 calories per pinchapepper on that recipe. The notion that I'm getting them without tending their domestication requirements is the bonus.

[Zarquan]

7 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

Getting the pinchappers isnt all that difficult for me, l usualy venture through that area to get around slime in the early game - that fact that berry mash uses half the berries of the stuffed berry recipe makes it worthwhile. But I don't have access to wheat at the moment - stuffed berry adds about 200 more calories than just cooking the berries - so I guess 100 calories per pinchapepper on that recipe. The notion that I'm getting them without tending their domestication requirements is the bonus.

But the stuffed berries take 2 brissle berries, whereas grissle berries only take 1.  That means that per berry, they are equal.  With 2 brissle berries, you can make 4000 kcal of grissle berries, which is the same as the stuffed berry. 

Basically, stuffed berries take 3200 kcal of berry and make it 4000 kcal.  Grissle berries take 1600 kcal of berries and make 2000 kcal.  The calorie increase is the same per kcal of brissle berry, or 3200 kcal goes to 4000 kcal.  This means that the only thing the pinchapepper nuts do is increase the quality.  That could be worth it, but not in the early game.

[The Plum Gate]

@Zarquan, yes, that is true, I stand corrected. The only difference is quality. Which would explain why none of my dupes are overly stressed about food. I guess in the meantime, since I have no other use for the pinchpeppers I am finding, that it's just as well for morale.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, The Plum Gate said:

@Zarquan, yes, that is true, I stand corrected. The only difference is quality. Which would explain why none of my dupes are overly stressed about food. I guess in the meantime, since I have no other use for the pinchpeppers I am finding, that it's just as well for morale.

You can make pepperbread from nuts and grains found in the wild perhaps. A supplement to the food supply.

[Zarquan]

18 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

You can make pepperbread from nuts and grains found in the wild perhaps. A supplement to the food supply.

Yes, you can.  If the pinchapepper nuts are free and the fertilizer is created passively, then pepper bread costs 50 kg/cycle per dupe, which is better than berry sludge.  I'll add that to my analysis on the earlier page.

Also... I MESSED UP!!!  Frost buns only take 50 kg/cycle of water per dupe.  I thought it was at 60 kg/cycle because I got the calorie count wrong (it give 1200 instead of 1000).  Sleetwheat is also the easiest farm to make since the grains are seeds.  I added that to my page too.

[Coolthulhu]

2 hours ago, Zarquan said:

I suppose if you have an excess of pinchapepper you might as well make the stuffed berry, but it is just extra work.

Not always: stuffed berries are cooked from 2 berries, so kcal per time spent cooking is doubled. So if you have a bunch of peppers, it can help you cook a lot of calories fast, when in a pinch (ehehehe).

1 hour ago, Zarquan said:

Sleetwheat is also the easiest farm to make since the grains are seeds.

It's the hardest plant to farm, seeds that are products (and thus rot) don't really affect that.

[Zarquan]

1 minute ago, Coolthulhu said:

Not always: stuffed berries are cooked from 2 berries, so kcal per time spent cooking is doubled. So if you have a bunch of peppers, it can help you cook a lot of calories fast, when in a pinch (ehehehe).

It's the hardest plant to farm, seeds that are products (and thus rot) don't really affect that.

I meant getting the peppers.  Since all the dupes are so slow and the peppers are scattered across the map, it takes more time to get the peppers than it takes to cook the grissle berries.

Also, you are right about sleetwheat.  I meant to say it's the fastest to plant, not the easiest.  Take 5 seeds, then in 18 cycles you can have 90 plants.  Though cooling the liquid isn't that bad.  I cool the water by using it to preheat polluted water heading for a boiler, then finishing it with the aquatuners in the boiler.  Honestly, I don't see sleetwheat as that hard if you can mine the abyssalite.  Then you can cycle the air through a thermoregulator if it gets too hot.  Before anyone mentions the borg cube, I am trying to avoid it because it is a bit of an exploit.

[Technoincubus]

Peppers require phosphorite, which means it's a limited resource. So berry sludge makes good sustainable food possible,

Problem is that wheat and berries means you have to go on a hard route of cooling your base.

[Zarquan]

14 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

Peppers require phosphorite, which means it's a limited resource. So berry sludge makes good sustainable food possible,

Problem is that wheat and berries means you have to go on a hard route of cooling your base.

Domestic peppers take phosphite.  Wild peppers are completely free, and there are a ton of them on the map.  If you leave them, they will produce 4 pincha pepper nuts every 32 cycles.  That means with 8 plants, you can get around 1 per cycle.  Just a little around my base, I have way more than 8.  You might as well use it if you have it to make pepper bread, which is a very high quality food.  It takes 2 wild pinchapepper plants to give one dupe pepper bread every day, which can be nice if you have any picky dupes.  So avoid digging up wild pincha pepper, and your dupes will eat well.

Does anyone know if there is a way to replant wild seeds?  I know you used to be able to replant some, but I am under the impression you can't anymore (except wheezewort.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, I would live to replant wild plants. 

 

[Saturnus]

You can wild grow all non-food plants, except briars (not actually sure about the last one as I haven't tested it in a long time)

Reeds obviously being the most useful.

[Zarquan]

Ok thanks.  I didn't know I could replant thimblereed.  I always just drained a polluted water pocket and have all the thimble reed I need for a long long time.  I assume food plants includes pinchapepper...