Occupational Upgrade is a Giant Nerf?

[randomdupe]

I wonder if they would ever consider an RPG-like approach, such that mastering a job lets them keep that stat increase.

[donutman07]

Shifting existing mid game content to end game still puts stuff in end game. And besides, I thought we were talking about the new ore transport, which is new. "Arbitrary" is kind of in the eye of the beholder, but if everybody seems to dislike it, then I'm sure it'll get tweaked. In particular I bet the run speed is probably decoupled from jobs but maybe clamped down on the high end to encourage the ore transport and tubes.  I certainly can't imagine using an anemic dupe, but then I already had several traits I refused to get.

[ScottFree]

I don't think the word nerf is appropriate for an early access game.

[Foefaller]

I think the issue isn't so much the job system (which I actually love... until everyone starts making messes because cleaning the outhouse no longer beats out virtually all other tasks of the same priority ) but the RNG related to dupe stats.

Really shines a light that it should be a more procedural generation, especially in regards to interested jobs. I mean, I had one dupe that an interest in cooking... and Gastrophobia. Feel like that should never happen. 

I also now have to go through dozens of initial dupes to get three that both have the interest AND starting stats in the jobs I want. When before I might cycle a couple and have an good starting researcher, builder and digger. I can accept the occasional dupe that loves to do art but has zero skill in art. Or is an amazing cook but rather be an engineer, that's par for course on games like this. but IMO that should be the exception, and right now it's overwhelmingly the rule.

[Zarquan]

Have you tried putting outhouses on priority 4* or 5*?  Then they should clean them immediately.  My bases are generally set up so that the outhouses being cleaned is so important that (in the old system) I set it as priority 9.

I think they will probably fix the whole gastraphobe who wants to cook thing before the patch is done. 

I hope

.....

please?

[m0ver]

Game was too easy and now is too hard. The content is great, but it lacks some balancing. Feels like the Outbreak update again - it will be fixed since adding jobs is great, but at the moment it needs some tweaking.

[NanoD]

I dont think it is harder, just confusing.

I find the priority system to be a complete ******* mess now.

[Foefaller]

8 minutes ago, NanoD said:

I dont think it is harder, just confusing.

I find the priority system to be a complete ******* mess now.

From what I can tell, it works something like this:

Dupes first do every task that is favored by their job in order of priority, ignoring all other tasks regardless of priority until there are none left that match their job.

Setting a task to strict priority overrides this, dupes will do those tasks after any job-related tasks of an equal or higher priority are done, before moving to job tasks of a lower priority.

The big thing that's changed (which might be a bug, because it's responsible for almost all of the priority mess-ups I've had) is that there seems to be no partial priority steps between tasks that are not part of a dupe's job. Now it seems, which non-job task a dupe picks seems to be based almost entirely on proximity. Before, for example Maintenance tasks (like cleaning the outhouse) was a pretty high priority within the priority; the first thing dupes would do when all other tasks of a higher priority are done. Meanwhile, loading resources that were not tagged for sweeping into storage containers or bottle emptiers was at the bottom, dupes would only work on them if they had no other job for that priority left.

In the preview patch however, I've had dupes wetting themselves hauling sandstone into storage because noone thought to stop doing that to make sure the outhouse worked. The dupe that had the last flush usually starts on it, but if nighttime or hunger or a task that fits their job draws them away, nobody bothers to go back unless it's at least set to a high priority, and usually needs to be marked for strict too.

[GrindThisGame]

13 hours ago, ScottFree said:

I don't think the word nerf is appropriate for an early access game.

Good point. It's a constant re-balance until things are just right.

[TheOlz]

14 hours ago, ScottFree said:

I don't think the word nerf is appropriate for an early access game.

In the context of how nerf and buff are used in video games, I think it's entirely appropriate.

You buff something to make it harder, or nerf it to make it easier.  (like bosses in DST for example, toadstool was nerfed when they removed the timer)
Or, you buff the playing experience to make it better, or nerf it to make it worse.

I don't see how they are words reserved for a game that is out of early release - constant nerfing and buffing is what early release is all about - finding the right balance of nerfs and buffs from the starting point to make the best experience.

[ScottFree]

23 minutes ago, TheOlz said:

In the context of how nerf and buff are used in video games, I think it's entirely appropriate.

You buff something to make it harder, or nerf it to make it easier.  (like bosses in DST for example, toadstool was nerfed when they removed the timer)
Or, you buff the playing experience to make it better, or nerf it to make it worse.

I don't see how they are words reserved for a game that is out of early release - constant nerfing and buffing is what early release is all about - finding the right balance of nerfs and buffs from the starting point to make the best experience.

Dupes and priorities have changed, I'd say its systemic change. It would be a nerf if it was one change and everything else stayed the same. Either way, the game isn't complete, so the term nerf could apply to every upgrade before this too. Temperature was a nerf, farming was a nerf, germs were a bigger nerf, refinement is a nerf too.

[TheOlz]

Just now, ScottFree said:

Dupes and priorities have changed, I'd say its systemic change. It would be a nerf if it was one change and everything stayed the same. Either way, the game isn't complete, so the term nerf could apply to every upgrade before this too. Temperature was a nerf, farming was a nerf, germs were a bigger nerf, refinement is a nerf too.

Au contraire, I would say that all of those features buffed the play experience - more content, more control, more (non arbitrary) challenge, more fun.

So far, the play experience seems to have been nerfed from Tubular to Occupational.

Accept that you may not agree, but my 600+hrs prior to Occupational have felt more enjoyable than my 20 or so hrs since.

[Oozinator]

12 minutes ago, TheOlz said:

Accept that you may not agree, but my 600+hrs prior to Occupational have felt more enjoyable than my 20 or so hrs since.

I spent so much time in that game, like in no other before.

[TheOlz]

Mine isn't OnI (yet) but Klei does own my top spot!

And DST has a few hundred also

[Oozinator]

Just now, TheOlz said:

Mine isn't OnI (yet) but Klei does own my top spot!

And DST has a few hundred also

Always a good feeling, not to be the sickest ^^

[PhailRaptor]

On the Buff/Nerf subject --

Individual elements can be buffed or nerfed.  Systems get reworked.  Both can be added or removed.  The Job system has been reworked.  The Priority settings have been nerfed ( 1 to 9 reduced to 1 to 5).  Dupe inherent leveling has been removed, and instead added to the Job system.  Etc.

Similarly, Food has been reworked (again), and most items within it have been buffed.

[Kabrute]

Now I don't feel so bad

[TheOlz]

I'm very close to that @Kabrute

Amazing to think I have given Klei games over 3000hrs of my life.

I have no way to check how much Don't Starve was played outside of steam (ps4 and Vita) but it was probably another 500+

Wow... I need a hobby! rofl

[Kabrute]

Yeah I do salmon fishing and gold panning when its warm enough, I have lots of hobbies games being 3/4 of them

[TheOlz]

Gold panning? Fascinating, that's certainly not one you hear everyday!

 

[Seeker89]

I wonder if an optional dupe creator would be a good next step. If you could make a design the first 3 dupes, I think it would balance it.

[m0ver]

414hours so far :/

[Oozinator]

32 minutes ago, Seeker89 said:

.. I think it would balance it.

No sorry. Gameplay is unbalanced now, not dupeselection.

[RonEmpire]

Maybe it's a bug - but I have noticed a DUPE that used to complete  research assistant mastery for me to assign him to the next tier research suddenly lost a good % of his mastery of research assistant and now I must start again from the bottom.

[BDelacroix]

I found it takes a huge amount of getting used to.  You have to change how you used you used to play.

Once I determined to go slow, very slow and not promote dupes as soon as they were mastering their current level, I was able to get through some game without my colony going totally nuts.  In fact, I don't even have a massage table for a very long time as I determined to work with prettying up their sleeping quarters and making actual rooms for the bathrooms.  Turned out to be a lot more effective at reducing stress than the tables I have been using for so many versions.