DonDegow Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Hello, I was playing around trying to create some steam and encountered this : Yes you read that right, just a mere 69k°C. The worst is that the water wouldn't even boil (because of near vacuum?) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mast3r07 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Check this out: I had the same question, got answers. After my experiments, I realised that I must heat the rock, the tile itself, and not the air, to boil the water. So, you have 2 options: 1. Build 2+ rows of batteries in the isolated room, one above the other, on gas tiles (forgot their name, they allow the gas but not the liquids) and pour water in a Z pattern. The gas tiles will heat up and boil the water. 2. Dig to the magma core, make a room there, and let the hot igneous rock make the job for you. But not too hot, 3-400°C its enough. You dont want 800°C steam because it will cool in several cycles. (See my last post in my topic) I chose 2. btw, more efficient and faster. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 48 minutes ago, Mast3r07 said: Check this out: I had the same question, got answers. After my experiments, I realised that I must heat the rock, the tile itself, and not the air, to boil the water. So, you have 2 options: 1. Build 2+ rows of batteries in the isolated room, one above the other, on gas tiles (forgot their name, they allow the gas but not the liquids) and pour water in a Z pattern. The gas tiles will heat up and boil the water. 2. Dig to the magma core, make a room there, and let the hot igneous rock make the job for you. But not too hot, 3-400°C its enough. You dont want 800°C steam because it will cool in several cycles. (See my last post in my topic) I chose 2. btw, more efficient and faster. I did not need either of these to effectively boil water. The issue is likely throughput of the water. If you put a valve on the water to limit the flow, you'll likely be able to achieve steam easier. However, in my experience, the temperature system has a lot of quirks/bugs in general. Tiles for instance are built at the temperature of the material used in their construction and will not change from this temperature at all. However, they will affect the surrounding temperatures and as such could actually cause issues with the heating of nearby air/liquid if too cold. Below shows my steam setup to the bottom right. It is just 10 batteries in a rot with a pump on the left and a water spout on the right. I don't even valve mine currently, but I'm only dumping the output from my two scrubbers into there, so not likely producing enough contaminated water to cause issues yet. [screenshot was for reporting ice bug] Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachamd Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 what you need to see is temperature of the water not the gas.. well the gas is help to evaporate faster. In my case Im using gas filter for steam so the rest of hot gas back to the room Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckubis Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/172665090133667781/91280E28292C5AB6C853D752C8411F8784110866/ boilings easy http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=876446884 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzgzd Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 7 hours ago, DonDegow said: Hello, I was playing around trying to create some steam and encountered this : Yes you read that right, just a mere 69k°C. The worst is that the water wouldn't even boil (because of near vacuum?) No it is not because of vacuum. It would boil best in near vacuum, but problem is you have too much water and so that water mass can give received heat from batteries into walls at lower temperature then is water boiling point. First thing here are batteries heating gas around them and they can do it up to hundreds degrees. It is a bit weird that 126.9 °C battery can heat oxygen to 400 °C but it is because of battery output heat is set to +4W. It depends on gas mass how much those 4W will heat it up. Less heavy gas (low pressure) ends up at higher temperature and so your super small amount of CO2 has that crazy number. Those +4W at stable state go then from gas into walls so at some point gas temperature stop going up. (same with water) Second is gas transferring heat into water and that is almost zero with standard water mass hundred times bigger than gas. So third thing is +4W heat from batteries into water and it is probably no different between batteries into gas. So to get high temperature, smaller mass of water needs to be there. In vacuum max is 9kg of contaminated water in one tile and that is already very slooowly going up to 120 °C. When used normal walls even 9kg is too much. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
solounomas Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Ecu said: I did not need either of these to effectively boil water. The issue is likely throughput of the water. If you put a valve on the water to limit the flow, you'll likely be able to achieve steam easier. However, in my experience, the temperature system has a lot of quirks/bugs in general. Tiles for instance are built at the temperature of the material used in their construction and will not change from this temperature at all. However, they will affect the surrounding temperatures and as such could actually cause issues with the heating of nearby air/liquid if too cold. you keep on reusing this image with no steam in it, and lots of weasel words. this isn't helping, especially in all these spaghetti alphas being pushed out one after another served with heaps of glue and duct tape. what I know for sure is over the last couple versions they have affected energy transfer in some way, maybe messing with dirty water cycles intentionally, since I had a battery setup basically the same as all these working perfectly, which stopped producing steam for no apparent reason meanwhile I had dug down to the magma looking for alternatives, and this somehow turned my entire base into a sauna. boiling every exposed source of water in it until I put an airlock somewhere in the mineshaft. so liquid boiling still works, just not properly. and we keep trying to apply real world material science to these game mechanics, to understand why all these neat little stats have no coherent functionality. it's futile, we can only know these reactions by actually trying them verify everything you say, and then once more for good measure in the latest version of the game Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonDegow Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Thank you all for your answers, I'm already using a valve actually but I agree, there is probably too much water, I shall try with the conditioner IN the water and check how it goes! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecu Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 6 hours ago, solounomas said: you keep on reusing this image with no steam in it, and lots of weasel words. That screenshot simply shows my steam setup, which does actually show the output in the form of the ice glob shown on the tooltip (as I stated the screenshot was used to show another bug). It doesn't need to show actual steam in the room to show the setup I used, when I am certain it makes steam. As for weasel words, I merely described some of the current issues regarding the temperature system and how they may work against people attempting to set up their own steam system. This does actually help people debug their own setups and explains why their setup may not work. Given this is an alpha, it is very possible tweaks affect how the current system works each and every update. As of the most recent update, my steam room still works (but just feeds the ice glob more mass). 6 hours ago, solounomas said: what I know for sure is over the last couple versions they have affected energy transfer in some way, maybe messing with dirty water cycles intentionally, since I had a battery setup basically the same as all these working perfectly, which stopped producing steam for no apparent reason They did mess with the system in the last few hotfixes, specifically regarding piping of gasses/liquids. Pumps still have some bugs from what I understand. Regarding temperature, I have had a Klei response on my ice glob bug report that it won't be until the next actual update (not hotfix) that the bug would be fixed. As such it leads me to believe that the temperature system will be looked into heavily for the next major update. 6 hours ago, solounomas said: meanwhile I had dug down to the magma looking for alternatives, and this somehow turned my entire base into a sauna. boiling every exposed source of water in it until I put an airlock somewhere in the mineshaft. so liquid boiling still works, just not properly. and we keep trying to apply real world material science to these game mechanics, to understand why all these neat little stats have no coherent functionality. it's futile, we can only know these reactions by actually trying them verify everything you say, and then once more for good measure in the latest version of the game Sure. Digging down to magma can work because it is hot enough at that location that even if you ran into tile temperature bug issues, they may be countered by the ambient heat from the area. I've also stated that I have a battery room setup that does still generate steam as well. So of course creating steam still works. However, there a multiple bugs that exist in the temperature, gas, and liquid systems currently that conflict with people making such systems. You can definitely still do so, however, results seem to vary as people run into different bugs throughout their play. This is an alpha, and if you're running into such issues it is best to test them thoroughly to isolate the cause as best you can, search the bug reports to make sure it hasn't been reported already and post the bug (or add your info to an existing report if available). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyraelpl Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 18 hours ago, DonDegow said: Hello, I was playing around trying to create some steam and encountered this : Yes you read that right, just a mere 69k°C. The worst is that the water wouldn't even boil (because of near vacuum?) In a near vacuum scenario water would boil at even lower temperature! There even is a joke that you can't make a hard boiled egg on mt. Everest since the water boils in a temp. much lower then 100°C due to the lowered pressure. It works both ways so under extreme pressure water (any liquid) would reach its boiling point in a much, much higher temperature than under atmospheric pressure. Congrats on going waaaay above thermonuclear tho (our sun has about 6k on the surface). GG WP xD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonDegow Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Yeah I would have had better succes trying to make nuclear fusion with contaminated water Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CfSapper Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I think you should send a dup in there you know...for testing purposes...and science... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedois Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 22 hours ago, DonDegow said: Hello, I was playing around trying to create some steam and encountered this : Yes you read that right, just a mere 69k°C. The worst is that the water wouldn't even boil (because of near vacuum?) I'd be REALLY curious to see what happened if you deconstructed one of the exterior tiles. I think you potentially have the equivalent of a red button to send your world to hell when youve had enough. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-877814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonDegow Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Sadly, no. As people already stated, the quantity of air involved is ridiculously small : 20 mcg, that's 0.00000002 kg The average air density being above 1kg, this extreme temperature just vanished as soon as it was released (I had to do some improvements, losing this climate in the process). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 What really annoys me that apparently the physics in the game doesn't recognize proper relationship between liquids and gases. Like water being able to sit comfortably in a vacuum or (near vacuum). I mean, why isn't it turning into steam when the actual boiling point under those pressures are sub-zero. I digress, it turns out my attempts at making a low pressure distiller in the game where you suck out all the air from the system to increase the efficiency was for nothing. On closer inspection it has no effect on efficiency at all, so I could have saved myself the trouble and just made a boring old boiler/condenser combination. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kambing Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 it would be so cool if the air pressure affected the boiling point Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonsOnMyElbows Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 The atmosphere that is super hot is 20 mcg trying to heat up what looks like several tonnes of water. You would need a million times that, just to heat 20 grams of water. Try hovering over the water itself, and checking that it's temp is growing. But i can see from the screenshot that you probably have way too much water there, so it'll take a year to warm up to steam. Personally, i like to dump a total of about 10kg of dirty water over 6 batteries (so its just under 1kg per tile) and that takes just under 3 mins to warm up to steam, and about 5 mins to complete. Just to give you an idea of the quantities. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonDegow Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Yes Spoons, that's why I suggested the main issue in this setup was the near vacuum, gases cannot heat the water if there are none. It was mostly to show how high a temperature can go in such setup NB : I actually emptied the reservoir and replenished it with ~70kg of water to evaluate the quantities involved; at cycle 135 it's over 100°C and still going up. Thanks for your precious input. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
satoru Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 On 3/4/2017 at 7:24 PM, CfSapper said: I think you should send a dup in there you know...for testing purposes...and science... Project Lead: ok our big agenda items for this meeting Fix critical bugs #2634 and #6099 Work on new food system Create new animation of dupes face melting like in Indian Jones and The Temple of Doom Animator: Uh... why do we need #3? Project Lead: Do you read the forums? Animator: Given that I apparently have to make #3? No I don't want to! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, satoru said: Project Lead: ok our big agenda items for this meeting Fix critical bugs #2634 and #6099 Work on new food system Create new animation of dupes face melting like in Indian Jones and The Temple of Doom Animator: Uh... why do we need #3? Project Lead: Do you read the forums? Animator: Given that I apparently have to make #3? No I don't want to! Given that there's already puking, making a mess, and breaking wind (the dupes smirks when they fart) animations I don't think the animator minds making another even graphic horrible death animation. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CfSapper Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 10 hours ago, satoru said: Project Lead: ok our big agenda items for this meeting Fix critical bugs #2634 and #6099 Work on new food system Create new animation of dupes face melting like in Indian Jones and The Temple of Doom Animator: Uh... why do we need #3? Project Lead: Do you read the forums? Animator: Given that I apparently have to make #3? No I don't want to! Admit it, you're just as curious as I am. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/75350-i-guess-it-wont-boil/#findComment-879960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.
Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.