DS actively discourages exploration and learning in-game

[99X]

Before you say "That's preposterous, good sir"!, hear me out:

After playing a while (and dying a few times) I looked at how I was playing the game from a gameplay perspective. It seems, because the penalty for doing something wrong is death and losing all your stuff (excluding research), that I would avoid learning about new things I saw in game and instead went to the wiki.

The reasons that it discouraged me to learn about stuff in game, through trial and error, are these:

• Most enemy creatures are capable of killing you quickly, so you want to make sure you know what it is before engaging. Many creatures are capable of running after you (like hounds). There isn't an easy way to understand the creature without putting you in harms way immediately.
• Death means losing everything. which, not only is a major buzz kill to die after many days, but makes you play more of a turtling style of game. Why risk losing all you've worked for.
• There's no incentive to do anything at night. Which means sitting and waiting for the game time to go by.
• If you are hurt, there's no way to heal just health - IE: no bandages, etc.

While I don't suggest that the game needs to become easier, I think it needs to establish some pillars of success to build from. Research helps in this way slightly, but its far too easy to get 100+ research, research something and die, repeat. I know research will be changed in a future update, which means nothing you do will carry forward with you.

A suggestion might be that if you're able to build certain structures, that's a mini save point for the world. Perhaps instead, when you die and restart (on the same world) your previous land changes and structures are still there (crock pots and fire pits, not food and such). In the early game, as you're learning about what everything is - this would allow you some experimentation without punishing you heavily for doing so.

Thoughts?

[sarudak]

Hm... I like the extreme danger of engaging with new things. It actually makes a lot of sense to be cowardly. Also the wiki is OP, nerf the wiki.

[archblue1206]

uhm,have you tried eating honey?

[rocket]

I agree. I myself have looked up a few things on the wiki, mainly because I don't want to risk dying and losing all my progress, I guess.

Also, you CAN instant heal - eat seeds

[archblue1206]

eat honey my friends.... did you two just started playing?

Welcome to the forums my fellow SURVIVORS on the island of Don't Starve..

[99X]

eat honey my friends.... did you two just started playing?

Welcome to the forums my fellow SURVIVORS on the island of Don't Starve..

The act of getting honey isn't an easy task for the beginner. You have to be sure it's not full of killer bees or at least have some protection. You also must research quite a few things to get to a bee box.

[archblue1206]

then i suggest eating flowers and berries, good food for newly arrives!

[Silvador]

You realise that in dying, you do actually progress, right? Death teaches you many things, particularly to not do the same thing that resulted in your death. It's really not a matter of the game being made poorly, but a matter of personal preference in the way games are designed.

Put simply, if you want a game where you can get from beginning to end and learn everything, all in one playthrough, you should play another game and not this one.

[rodrigo4sb]

Welcome!

I agree about the things you can do at night, there are too little things you can do (and they are not a specific/exclusive for the night).

About the damage, you can always use logsuit for testing the mobs damage without being hurt to death. And after you learn how to kite, things become more easy. For me the only problem with the combat in game is the lack of weapons. Sure you can use the darts, tooth traps, traps, bee mines, but most of them are expensive (to use like crazy) or inefficient/unreliable.

About the death/turtle mode, there's the meat effigy/amulet if you don't want to lose everything.

About the heal, honey op. rly. Also I think that would be nice a health regen. (according to the hunger bar, if it's almost full, faster hp regen.)

EDIT: After this patch. they nerfed the honey. not more op.

Edited January 15, 2013 by rodrigo4sb

[Mathenaut]

Alot of these replies are really missing the point of the OP's post.

Responding to complaints of being forced to use the wiki by insisting that he do things that he would only determine by using the wiki? Come on. Beginners don't even have easy access to honey or meat effigies, much less know what they even are without farming up the research and resource for an alchemy engine. It isn't early game by that point.

If this is something that is sort of intended, then that's one thing. But from the angle of simply learning by trial and error? Little incentive to do so past a certain point.

[Tinithor]

Build a logsuit. Gives you enough life to figure out how to easily kite pretty much any creature. You don't have to EVER take any damage from treeguards, spider queens, tallbirds, normal spiders. Other enemies like hounds are ridiculously easy to outwit just by dropping a piece of meat on the ground, they go for it, you kill the first one, it drops more meat, the others go for that you auto win the fight.

Game is super easy, though i agree the night is boring, thats why i set up camp in a savanna/grasslands biome. I just use a sleep roll EVERY night.

[beachjustice]

The danger is part of the game but I honestly agree that there's not a hell of a lot of reason to go exploring once you reach a certain point and there isn't much if anything to do at night hence my proposed instruments in my sig. The only real source of danger I can see at this point is fighting the Tree Guard or getting caught by werepigs. Even then, if you have a couple helmets and logsuits, you can survive or simply run away for awhile. Once you've researched everything, your points seem to be useless. The devs have already stated that the game is too easy and I don't think making food expire will be a big deal until the difficulty ramps up and you simply can't find much for food. Even then, if you can't find much food, you'll be eating everything you find. Right now, I kinda feel like I'm playing Survival Farmville or something and it's been that way since something like day 20 on my current save. I'm up to 31 now and I think the highest I've been is 35 where i was mauled by a pack of werepigs I stumbled upon at just the wrong time. I really don't get how some people have gotten up to 200-300+ days and still maintained enthusiasm unless they're playing at work or something and have nothing else to do. I really like the game, I love the art and the feel of it, I love all the great ideas I'm seeing for it but right now there just isn't a hell of a lot to it. There probably isn't a large group of devs working on this. Idk how many there are but I don't think we can ask too much of them. They need time and I think we'll see some great changes over the next 2 months.

[Zoomreddin]

I agree on the game for a complete beginner is very hard, but once you've researched the basics the game becomes actually playable without dying on the 7th night when the hounds come. This is why we need the research update, it'll be very useful for newer players starting.

[stuntaneous]

You may not be suited to this kind of game or rather, this calibre of game. It's cool, it's alright 99X. The vast majority of modern 'gamers' aren't. But, if you want to persevere (a good sign!), keep a cool head upon misfortune and enjoy the ride. These games aren't so much about reaching the end. The fun is in skirting death. You're playing a rare gem that actually promotes meaningful gameplay. The brutality you've alluded to is what makes your decisions matter and the game so powerful. It can devastate or so gloriously satiate. The key is to recite and follow the dwarven mantra, losing is fun. Roll with the punches and enjoy the little victories, for they may be your last. And really, exercise some caution. The deaths are trying to tell, to teach, you something.

In other news, the difficulty of DS is easily surpassed by your average roguelike. Take a thrashing in one or two and you'll feel cosy camping out on these islands. I'd recommend Angband for a decent, traditional experience and the highly under-appreciated Caves of Qud for a more unconventional but considered aesthetic and greater depth of world.

And, your suggestion. Checkpoints? No. You're thinking of a different game.

[PistonPower]

I always felt that the meadows biome seemed a bit OP to me, maybe tone down the resource spawn? I felt on my first 2 days that the meadow was a best thing to start off in and in many ways it still is.

[The_Dizzie]

The game is still in beta, there is still the story to be fleshed out and such, right now we are essentially playing a game with zero goal, so yes you may feel bored or trapped by to your base because you don't want to die. Though I'd like to point out that in many games you could just idle around in the opening scenes/original spawn and never leave for fear of dying and having to start over. Just because you can doesn't mean the game is promoting you to stay in one spot.

There will be story eventually that will drive you to explore, there will be more features that will drive you out to gather more. Plus I think there is already the fact that bosses such as tree guard, and Spider Queen seem to gravitate towards your camp over time that you have to go out and kill them before they get too close to get you at night, along with this mystery creature that was suppose to be implemented.

Stop blaming the game for your own fear, and go out and stab something. Things are bound to get harder and more complicated, if you have suggestions, voice them, but don't just complain. That's like going to a restaurant and saying you're hungry but you don't like any of their food, what are we suppose to do to please you if you wont tell us ideas of things you'd like?

[moistedparanoia]

I actually mind a 'House' to revert back to . ;D

[Tinithor]

The game is still in beta, there is still the story to be fleshed out and such, right now we are essentially playing a game with zero goal, so yes you may feel bored or trapped by to your base because you don't want to die. Though I'd like to point out that in many games you could just idle around in the opening scenes/original spawn and never leave for fear of dying and having to start over. Just because you can doesn't mean the game is promoting you to stay in one spot.

There will be story eventually that will drive you to explore, there will be more features that will drive you out to gather more. Plus I think there is already the fact that bosses such as tree guard, and Spider Queen seem to gravitate towards your camp over time that you have to go out and kill them before they get too close to get you at night, along with this mystery creature that was suppose to be implemented.

Stop blaming the game for your own fear, and go out and stab something. Things are bound to get harder and more complicated, if you have suggestions, voice them, but don't just complain. That's like going to a restaurant and saying you're hungry but you don't like any of their food, what are we suppose to do to please you if you wont tell us ideas of things you'd like?

Well things like the spider queen and tree guard don't actually appear unless you do something specific. You'll never see a spider queen unless you go up to a fully evolved spider den, if there isn't one by your base the queen will never spawn.

Tree guards also don't spawn untill you cut down enough trees to randomly spawn them.

But mostly i agree, right now theres just a lack of content to go out and do, the game doesn't discourage you from doing the content unless you're afraid of dieing which defeats the purpose. It's already super easy to get a meat effigy if you rush for it which is all the security you can ask for.

[Mr. Higgsbury II]

Ok, I suggest that the incentive of explore and forget about of death is essential. You need death in DS or the game is pointless. Plus, for beginner, I'm what's it was like, not knowing anything, just hanging on. I say explore and learn from previous mistakes, and do it all in the name of science!

[Lordfiscus]

I've survived pretty well during exploration trips. I'm carrying 2 logsuits, 38 sticks, 40 grass, 28 flint, 2 tentacle spikes, and a backpack with 5 honey hams. Plus, i'm playing as Wendy, and live right next to a beefalo herd, both mix together well as a boon.

- - - Updated - - -

the only reason i'm exploring with those supplies is because i'm out of stone.