ATTENTION! Resource variants: death sentence for late Winter/Summer joiners

[hyiltiz]

If you join in Winter, you need a torch and a very good skill to stay alive for 3-5 days until you bump into someone's base, or wait gracefully for someone to pick you up not so urgently; If you join in Summer, you need a Whirly Fan and a very good skill to stay alive for 3-5 days until you bump into someone's base or wait gracefully for someone to pick you up not so urgently. If you did't even know about torch/whirly fan survival when joining in Winter/Summer, well, don't even bother joining in these seasons.

Now, with resource variants, by the time the world gets to 1st Summer (roughly Day 50), all the twigs are replaced by those nasty twig trees. I always hated chopping, and always completely avoided unless completely necessary. But I can deal with this psychological issue. The real issue is survival.

When you join in Winter/Summer, either of those items need twigs. If the world is aged enough (probably is since it is already Winter/Summer now!), twigs have transformed into its resource variant: twig tree. OK, just get your twig from the twig tree, no big deal right? NO!

To get your twig from the twig tree, you need an axe which needs a twig AND A FLINT in the first place. Finding flint for as a new joiner was hard, and you basically pray for birds. But finding twigs for the sake of getting twigs is a self-referential dependency hell problem which never has a solution!

So, the original game was pretty balanced. Please keep balancing in mind while introducing new (and awesome!) content.

 

p.s. Please don't tell me not to join in Winter/Summer. That is half of the game, and are interesting/challenging seasons, and I know what I am talking about. Also, telling people who could deal with it to leave then join later is not nice at all; for those who can't deal with yet joined, that is another story.

[CameoAppearance]

I didn't think the resource replacement cycle was that predictable. Do they actually swap in a specific order, or have specific resources swap out at specific world ages? Because you don't have the same substitutions every time when you start a new map, so I'd be surprised if saplings actually did consistently turn into twig trees after ~50 days; that seems to defeat the purpose of randomizing them. Are you sure this isn't just a coincidence that happened to make it extra punishing to join in a harsh season?

While the swamp and desert are often too far away to reach without dying (if not to the weather, then to Charlie because you can't make a torch), tumbleweeds and spiky bushes are at least technically valid ways to get twigs without saplings or an axe. That won't work well unless you find a good wormhole or the map generation is very favorable to you, though.

...How would you normally obtain twigs if you joined in summer, anyway? The only saplings that won't be withered are either a) in out-of-the-way areas that nobody's visited since summer started, or b) being actively maintained by the players already there, allowing you to just ask them for some twigs. Winter, yeah, I see your point, but wouldn't you already be having this problem in summer?

[Bahlsen]

I find it very uncalled for when people say "if you don't want griefing just play with friends" but I'm going to have the same speech for this topic. Winter and summer are supposed to be challenging seasons, you have to prepare for them. Most servers get reset when winter comes, I mean most players are not comfortable enough with the game to survive it so don't expect them to pick up every player joining in winter, whether there is resource variant or not.

 

Besides, since the game left early access there are 4-5 additional dedicated servers (the Klei official ones), so you can join at least day 10 anytime, and I'm not even talking about hosted servers.

[Zinglon]

There's some alternative source for twigs and grasses in desert, named tumbleweed. Also spiky bushes in desert and marsh also give twigs.

 

And most of all, in underground that kinds of variant sources are not assorted yet. So if you want easy going sources, just go down into caves.

[Faintly Macabre]

The real problem here is not really resource variants so much as players. If you enter a server and there aren't even some basic resources for newcomers situated around the portal, just like, leave. I can't even imagine not leaving some twigs and flint at the door. Hell, in my one world I had about a dozen farms with food waiting on them on my one play, and I often leave basic stuff like winter hats or whatnot in a chest. I mean, if you're not going to make sure people have some basic necessities when they arrive so they have a chance to get started and involved, what are you even playing multiplayer for...?

[TemporaryMan]

Before entering the server you could ask in chat if the twigs have turned into twiggy trees.  If yes, and you're worried about it, go Woodie.

[Aquaterion]

I believe just twigs on the floor can spawn too, not just saplings or twiggy trees.

[hyiltiz]

13 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

I didn't think the resource replacement cycle was that predictable. Do they actually swap in a specific order, or have specific resources swap out at specific world ages? Because you don't have the same substitutions every time when you start a new map, so I'd be surprised if saplings actually did consistently turn into twig trees after ~50 days; that seems to defeat the purpose of randomizing them. Are you sure this isn't just a coincidence that happened to make it extra punishing to join in a harsh season?

While the swamp and desert are often too far away to reach without dying (if not to the weather, then to Charlie because you can't make a torch), tumbleweeds and spiky bushes are at least technically valid ways to get twigs without saplings or an axe. That won't work well unless you find a good wormhole or the map generation is very favorable to you, though.

...How would you normally obtain twigs if you joined in summer, anyway? The only saplings that won't be withered are either a) in out-of-the-way areas that nobody's visited since summer started, or b) being actively maintained by the players already there, allowing you to just ask them for some twigs. Winter, yeah, I see your point, but wouldn't you already be having this problem in summer?

I am not sure if this is a single incidence, but it happened yesterday. If it happens 1 out of 100 worlds (like Krampus Sack), then it is fine. If it is more like 30% of the time, then the cycle should take into account the new players joining in Winter/Summer?

Swamp and desert are too away, and yes, being able to find them in Day 1 might be hardly possible, especially the desert.

In Summer, I would normally keep walking on a road in any direction until I get far away enough from the portal. Usually, you could run at least 2-3 biomes in half a day hiding under trees before the dark, and that is far enough to find some twigs. Or better, on your way, you'll find a sinkhole and you are saved!

11 hours ago, Bahlsen said:

I find it very uncalled for when people say "if you don't want griefing just play with friends" but I'm going to have the same speech for this topic. Winter and summer are supposed to be challenging seasons, you have to prepare for them. Most servers get reset when winter comes, I mean most players are not comfortable enough with the game to survive it so don't expect them to pick up every player joining in winter, whether there is resource variant or not.

 

Besides, since the game left early access there are 4-5 additional dedicated servers (the Klei official ones), so you can join at least day 10 anytime, and I'm not even talking about hosted servers.

I hope you did read my post fully. I know what I am talking about. I can live as far as I want in The King Of Winter.

[Jason]

Hey all, thanks for voicing your thoughts and concerns about the resource variants  All the feedback is great.

In this case, there is a system in place to help. Just as with flint, birds will deliver twigs to new players in worlds with twiggy trees. They take pity on the new souls.

[AnonymousKoala]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Hey all, thanks for voicing your thoughts and concerns about the resource variants  All the feedback is great.

In this case, there is a system in place to help. Just as with flint, birds will deliver twigs to new players in worlds with twiggy trees. They take pity on the new souls.

What's the threshold? I mean, from what day you're not considered new?

9 hours ago, Aquaterion said:

I believe just twigs on the floor can spawn too, not just saplings or twiggy trees.

That's true but these twigs are usually taken away by the first players who find them.

17 hours ago, Zinglon said:

There's some alternative source for twigs and grasses in desert, named tumbleweed. Also spiky bushes in desert and marsh also give twigs.

 

And most of all, in underground that kinds of variant sources are not assorted yet. So if you want easy going sources, just go down into caves.

Huh, I might have an actual usage for the spiky bushes(Never used 'em. Saplings were always better)

[CameoAppearance]

If you can find a sinkhole, the resources in there are generally less picked-over anyway no matter what season it is.

[hyiltiz]

On 4/27/2016 at 9:39 PM, Jason said:

Hey all, thanks for voicing your thoughts and concerns about the resource variants  All the feedback is great.

In this case, there is a system in place to help. Just as with flint, birds will deliver twigs to new players in worlds with twiggy trees. They take pity on the new souls.

All always, pray for the birds. Woodie knew it.