Wolfgang sucks

[merkmerk73]

The speed reduction in wimpy form is really obnoxious and his hunger drain coupled with higher sanity drain against monsters and darkness make him a huge chore to play.

 

But the worst part is when his hunger 'transformations' cause you to stop while running so you can get hit by things.

 

Wolfgang sucks.

[ButterStuffed]

I'd still rather play Wolfgang than Willow.

[merkmerk73]

Willow is pretty much like Wilson except with less Sanity. It's not too bad to deal with, a lot like Webber really.

[TeichMan]

I'm pretty sure that while he transforms he is immune to all forms of damage. So it's actually nice to use to block big hits. 

[Toros]

I've been saying for years at this point that Wolfgang's problem is that he's awkward to play, not that he's weak.

 

If you had a flat hunger rate (something like 2x) and flat stats in wimpy and mighty states, wolfgang would be a lot better to play.  You'd still have the potential for transforming and inopportune times, but there'd be no downside to staying full, as long as you were using that strength.

 

That being said, pretty much anything wolfgang can do wigfrid can do just as well, and she's a lot less annoying to play. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that while he transforms he is immune to all forms of damage. So it's actually nice to use to block big hits. 

 

 

He may be invulnerable while transforming, but he's also locked in place, so there's a good chance you'll get hit right after transforming.  Generally just running away works better.

[lionking102]

I play Wolfgang all the time and i think hes perfekt. Yes Wigfrid can do simular things, but shes boring and OP to play in my opinion. 
Wolfgang is extremly strong, so there have to be some drawbacks to this. Also he does a lot more damage than Wigfrid, you can one shot Spiders and kill boses really fast. 

He is definitly not to weak and right played one of the strongest characters in the game. Double the damage, 300 health and faster moving is awesome for only i bit of food. His wimpy form is the compensation for that. 

If all the charakters would be just OP, so its all easy, the game would be boring and not Don´t Starve. 

[ImDaMisterL]

Wolfgang? Suck? WOLFGANG NO SUCKS! WHAT IS WIMPY MAN SAYING?

Wimpy man must be jealous of Wolfgang's mightyness. Wolfgang knows Wimpy man not knows what he talking about.

[Edebadi]

His might and speed is enough for me to overcome the disadvantages for me.

[WhyNotWhy]

He is very good if you can manage your food well. 2x damage and faster run speed not good enough for you?

 

 

That being said, pretty much anything wolfgang can do wigfrid can do just as well, and she's a lot less annoying to play.

 

Wigfrid is just so easy it's boring. Need food? Go hit something. Need health? Go hit something. Need sanity? Go hit something. The cheap twice as durable helmet, 20% damage resistance and easy health recovery means you don't even have to bother with kiting, just tank everything. Only eating meat isn't even a drawback considering nearly all crock pot recipes you will use are meat-based.

[Gingerbread]

wolfgang is too good.. problem is you need food item in your inventory at all times..i play as wolfgang at all times and even in dst its too easy to keep him even normal form.. you can just tank a deerclops with him with 3 helm in mighty form. start to fight with full stomach and its too easy to kill deerclops (3 footbal helm and a hambat just tank. maybe even 2 helmet is enough). He who says wolfgang sucks, does not know how to manage him. that is his issue. not mighy wolfie.

 

wigfrid is op... sanity, hp and food from just hitting is so simple. op helmet etc even her weapon is better than other people's starter weapon (aka normal spear) and also doing 1.25x damage mult, definitely the most op char for dst.. I expected her to be nerfed too but nothing happened.. seriously only eating meat is not a disadvantage and everything other than that is an advantage for her.. at least some sort of wimpy form for her must be added too. only one drawback (not really a drawback only eating meat) but if you look at other chars, all of them have more than 2 drawback. you even nerfed willow who was not even op before but the most op char of this game stays op in dst too. too easy for pvp servers and i hate that wigfrid trend she is chosen cuz she is op.

[Gingerbread]

He is very good if you can manage your food well. 2x damage and faster run speed not good enough for you?

 

 

 

Wigfrid is just so easy it's boring. Need food? Go hit something. Need health? Go hit something. Need sanity? Go hit something. The cheap twice as durable helmet, 20% damage resistance and easy health recovery means you don't even have to bother with kiting, just tank everything. Only eating meat isn't even a drawback considering nearly all crock pot recipes you will use are meat-based.

 

actually he does not really do 2x damage in mighty form.

 

225 hunger=1.25x

226 hunger=1.26x

-

-

287 hunger=1.87x

-

-

299 hunger=1.99x

300 hunger=2.00x

 

something like this..

 

WIth a lil calculation lets say if you enter to an important battle with full stomach and finish it with 250 hunger your average damage mult will be (1.50+2.00)/2=1.75x (at least, if you enter to a fight with full stomach)... Still best if you know how to manage him.

[StaypuftMMM]

I've only played with him and Wigrid for a few hours each (both seemed unappealing regarding their pro/con abilities).  

However, knowing Wolfgang's speed increases is pretty interesting and I might just try him out again now.

 

[Flare2V]

Wolfgang is a character who's usefulness depends on your playstyle, knowledge of the game and combat skills. Basically, if you suck Wolfgang will suck for you, no offense intended.

[Toros]

Wolfgang is a character who's usefulness depends on your playstyle, knowledge of the game and combat skills. Basically, if you suck Wolfgang will suck for you, no offense intended.

There's no question that wolfgang is the most powerful when sanity and food are no longer a significant limitation (belt of hunter and crown is later, but really drives the point home)

The problem is the first half dozen hours into a world, especially with friends dying and generally not being efficient, wolfgang is annoying to play, and a lot of work for very little reward.

Even when you do get him to a point where being mighty all the time isn't just a waste, his scaling from 1.25x-2x damage and transforming at inoppurtune times is a pain in the ass.

He is a lot weaker in dst until he gets a hibearnation vest, and has anti-synergy with newbie allies as well.

My biggest issue with wolfgang is his early game doesn't feel like a strongman. I've tested flat drain (2x) with flat health and damage in wimpy/mighty, and I like it better.

While it's possible to spend the first season or two mighty, it's a massive waste of resources. If there are 4 players and one is a mighty wolfgang, they're splitting the food in half.

After a year or two when food is abundant or you've made a ruins run, wolfgang is incredibly powerful. If it's pvp and you can just beat people for the supplies for winter instead of getting it yourself, great.

But not being able to accurately count how many hits to kill an enemy while mighty is annoying. So is having to wait until nearly starved to get improved healing efficiency.

While wigfrid is not as powerful later, she is much easier to use, has the equivalent of 250 hp and 25% bonus health from food all the time. Combined with her easy sanity and hp management, she's not going to run into nearly as many headaches once she gets a crockpot.

If you're doing a long game solo or with great players, wolfgang is great. Otherwise, wigfrid is an equally powerful, easier choice.

[Gingerbread]

There's no question that wolfgang is the most powerful when sanity and food are no longer a significant limitation (belt of hunter and crown is later, but really drives the point home)

The problem is the first half dozen hours into a world, especially with friends dying and generally not being efficient, wolfgang is annoying to play, and a lot of work for very little reward.

Even when you do get him to a point where being mighty all the time isn't just a waste, his scaling from 1.25x-2x damage and transforming at inoppurtune times is a pain in the ass.

He is a lot weaker in dst until he gets a hibearnation vest, and has anti-synergy with newbie allies as well.

My biggest issue with wolfgang is his early game doesn't feel like a strongman. I've tested flat drain (2x) with flat health and damage in wimpy/mighty, and I like it better.

While it's possible to spend the first season or two mighty, it's a massive waste of resources. If there are 4 players and one is a mighty wolfgang, they're splitting the food in half.

After a year or two when food is abundant or you've made a ruins run, wolfgang is incredibly powerful. If it's pvp and you can just beat people for the supplies for winter instead of getting it yourself, great.

But not being able to accurately count how many hits to kill an enemy while mighty is annoying. So is having to wait until nearly starved to get improved healing efficiency.

While wigfrid is not as powerful later, she is much easier to use, has the equivalent of 250 hp and 25% bonus health from food all the time. Combined with her easy sanity and hp management, she's not going to run into nearly as many headaches once she gets a crockpot.

If you're doing a long game solo or with great players, wolfgang is great. Otherwise, wigfrid is an equally powerful, easier choice.

 

wolfgang is powerful in any time of the game... Depends on you and your experience. I play at all time and never ever experienced a hardship to keep him above wimpy form... Food is everywhere in the game that you can even play nomad with even wolfgang in normal form and go to mighty form as you need to anytime anywhere. this shows that, if wolfgang can survive on his own as a nomad, any character can easily survive in this game,

 

Finding food for wigfrid is extremely easy too. just attack everything on sight. go to swamp watch tentacle merm fights grab monster meat, frog legs go attack pigs go attack catcoons, go attack everything.

 

If you are desperate cook monster meat and eat. pick flowers next day or go attack someone to increase ur sanity.. endless procedure. this is the story of a nomad wigfrid. dont camp, walk all over the map search for ur needs and you will be fine. (well you can camp too. this is just nomad strategy for any char)

 

I dont really understand the base fantasy of people in this game. you dont need a base you dont need anything for any character. you can urself be ur base, u can carry ur alchemy engine with you etc.

[Flare2V]

wigfrid is an equally powerful, easier choice.

 

O-okay.

[Toros]

O-okay.

 

No sense in using a quote if you're going to remove the context.  I said that in a long, multi-year game, wolfgang is significantly more powerful.  But in a short game, or a game where you're having to feed other players who are still learning the game, wigfrid works pretty much as well, because she is at her full (considerable) strength without having to use as many resources.

 

For cooperative, of course.  Both are very strong in pvp, wolfgang stronger assuming you're successful in killing people.

[werlpolf]

For cooperative, of course. Both are very strong in pvp, wolfgang stronger assuming you're successful in killing people

 

Yes, Wolfgang is for killing other people. Keep that in mind guys.

 

No one can run away from Wolfgang!!!!! - even if your enemy has the walking cane.

 

There is more then enough food in the game: mighty mighty Wolfgang VS Wigfrid -> poor Wigfrid

 

He can even eat Butterflies!!!!

 

[AquaAtia]

As a player of this game for a long time now. I never thought I would see one of these threads before

[Flare2V]

No sense in using a quote if you're going to remove the context.  I said that in a long, multi-year game, wolfgang is significantly more powerful.  But in a short game, or a game where you're having to feed other players who are still learning the game, wigfrid works pretty much as well, because she is at her full (considerable) strength without having to use as many resources.

 

For cooperative, of course.  Both are very strong in pvp, wolfgang stronger assuming you're successful in killing people.

 

Hahaha, there absolutely is. I was highlighting the part I was responding to. If you want to read the rest of the message being quoted, scroll back up. It also lowers the size of a message which makes the message easier to understand.

 

Anyways, back to your argument- for the most part you just mindlessly state feelings without backing them up. Whenever you do provide reasoning for Wolfgang being a poor choice it kid of goes back to what I said earlier: you're not handling Wolfgang correctly. For example:

 

 

The problem is the first half dozen hours into a world, especially with friends dying and generally not being efficient, wolfgang is annoying to play, and a lot of work for very little reward.

You never explain why he's inefficient earlier on, you just kinda insult him as a character with no ground.

 

 

Even when you do get him to a point where being mighty all the time isn't just a waste, his scaling from 1.25x-2x damage and transforming at inoppurtune times is a pain in the ass.

Once again, transforming should never happen at inopportune times as it's not impossible to keep your hunger above or below the transformation thresholds (100 and 225 hunger, respectively). If you fear bad timing when going from mighty to normal form in the future you can eat rot to forcibly transform yourself. Why is his scaling from 1.25x-2x damage a pain in the ass, again?

 

 

But not being able to accurately count how many hits to kill an enemy while mighty is annoying. So is having to wait until nearly starved to get improved healing efficiency.

I usually don't wait to heal in order to heal "more efficiently". Time is a resource as much as anything else. While you were waiting you could've been out smacking butterflies or picking bluecaps; two of the easy-to-access healing foods that Wigfrid can't use. Not being able to accurately count your hits is, once again, on you. While it is true Wolfgang has a steep learning curve (in this regard), it's not impossible to calculate how much damage you're dealing and it's not impossible to remember how much health common enemies have.

 

 

While wigfrid is not as powerful later, she is much easier to use, has the equivalent of 250 hp and 25% bonus health from food all the time. Combined with her easy sanity and hp management, she's not going to run into nearly as many headaches once she gets a crockpot.

Bingo. Wigfrid is easier to use. In the hands of an experienced player, however, Wolfgang can do so much more. Being able to kill enemies in fewer hits means you can stay safe in combat situations others normally cannot; it makes it very easy to prevent being swarmed. Sanity management as wolfgang I personally find to be little to no problem as he has access to more sanity-restoring foods. Additionally, any time sanity would be a problem during combat you can simply beat down nightmare creatures due to his crazy ramped-up damage in mighty form.

 

 

I'm sorry you're having trouble enjoying Wolfgang as a character. Often times he is the most fun I've ever had playing Don't Starve + Together. You have a few gripes with some of his mechanics, I understand, but that doesn't make him a bad character. If you have any questions on how to overcome some of his hurdles don't be afraid to ask; people here are more than likely to help.

[Toros]

Hahaha, there absolutely is. I was highlighting the part I was responding to. If you want to read the rest of the message being quoted, scroll back up. It also lowers the size of a message which makes the message easier to understand.

 

You never explain why he's inefficient earlier on, you just kinda insult him as a character with no ground.

Early on, Wolfgang is either wimpy or consuming more food than any other character. Wigfrid starts with food and gains nothing but benefits from fighting even early on. Even if you're not getting hit, fighting keeps her sanity topped up with zero effort.

 

Once again, transforming should never happen at inopportune times as it's not impossible to keep your hunger above or below the transformation thresholds (100 and 225 hunger, respectively). If you fear bad timing when going from mighty to normal form in the future you can eat rot to forcibly transform yourself. Why is his scaling from 1.25x-2x damage a pain in the ass, again?

I don't personally find the transformation threshholds to cause problems during combat, but there's really no advantage to them being there. It doesn't add to the character, and it makes for something else to manage and be aware of. You're right that for an experienced player, it's not an issue.

 

 

Not being able to accurately count your hits is, once again, on you. While it is true Wolfgang has a steep learning curve (in this regard), it's not impossible to calculate how much damage you're dealing and it's not impossible to remember how much health common enemies have.

Bullshit. You can get close enough, and if you're kiting properly it doesn't matter a whole lot to know exactly how many hits, but calculating on the fly if one more hit at 1.89x damage is going to finish off a mob is at best inaccurate, and at worst needless busywork. If you're fighting a swarm as wigfrid, it's possible you could remember how many hits on which enemy. No way are you remembering how many hits on which enemy and calculating on the fly how much damage you're doing based on your hunger levels. It's not a big deal to just kite and get one more hit if you're off.

 

 

Bingo. Wigfrid is easier to use. In the hands of an experienced player, however, Wolfgang can do so much more. Being able to kill enemies in fewer hits means you can stay safe in combat situations others normally cannot; it makes it very easy to prevent being swarmed. Sanity management as wolfgang I personally find to be little to no problem as he has access to more sanity-restoring foods. Additionally, any time sanity would be a problem during combat you can simply beat down nightmare creatures due to his crazy ramped-up damage in mighty form.

Wigfrid doesn't have sanity problems period, because if she's fighting she's gaining sanity. Worst case scenario she goes and farms some spiders, which gives hp and sanity back passively.

 

 

I'm sorry you're having trouble enjoying Wolfgang as a character. Often times he is the most fun I've ever had playing Don't Starve + Together. You have a few gripes with some of his mechanics, I understand, but that doesn't make him a bad character. If you have any questions on how to overcome some of his hurdles don't be afraid to ask; people here are more than likely to help.

I don't have trouble enjoying Wolfgang as a character. I really like his theme and being able to beat down enemies faster than anyone else. I just don't like the first two seasons with him. As soon as you get through your first winter, he's great because there's food everywhere and your base is already built. Once you're set up, he's golden. Before you're set up, I find myself having to conserve food with wimpy between fights because I want to build up a stockpile for winter.

For example, I don't like wolfgang's normal form. I don't think having +50 max health and hunger is worth consuming 50% more food.

I also don't like the damage scaling in mighty form. 1.25x damage is certainly not worth 3x food consumption, and neither is 1.5x damage, in my opinion. 1.75-2x damage is great, but then if the fight is over quickly you waste a lot of food before mighty form wears off.

If wolfgang's wimpy and mighty forms both had the same hunger rate, say 2x, and the stats were consistent instead of scaling, everything that I find inefficient or busywork about wolfgang would be gone. Wimpy form would be even more punishing. But I wouldn't waste food being mighty when I didn't need it, and I wouldn't eat bacon and eggs at 250 hunger because I don't want my damage multiplier to degrade.

Wolfgang, played correctly and with enough food, is hands down the strongest character in don't starve. However, his design isn't streamlined like wickerbottom's or wigfrid's. If you go mighty (or mightier) when you didn't need to, you might save a few seconds but burn a lot of extra food. That's not a particularly satisfying outcome.

Wolfgang is not a popular character to play based off of surveys, and in inexperienced hands is not effective or helpful to the group. It's not because Wolfgang is weak, but I believe it's because he has a lot of little things to manage that don't make him more fun to play.

For a skilled player like you, you can calculate how much damage he does against single targets and cancel out the downside of his constantly scaling damage in mighty form. You know when it's worth it to eat and go back to a high multiplier and when you only have a few hits left so it'd be a waste. A new player is obviously going to struggle.

My question is, what does having to manage that add? It makes wolfgang harder to play optimally, but does it make him more fun?

I believe that when it comes to design, complexity is only justified when it makes the character more interesting or fun. Otherwise it just creates a barrier for new players.

For you, wolfgang's downsides are minimized and managed to the point they barely cause a negative effect. For a new player, his downsides will cripple them and his upsides will be mistimed. For someone of more intermediate skill like myself, wolfgang is strong but requires a lot of effort to manage his quirks.

For me, if I'm going to play a short game starting in autumn and part of winter, wigfrid and wolfgang both offer an aggressive playstyle. But wigfrid is more consistent and easier to play, and wolfgang represents a lot more work but a higher peak.

If I'm going to play a long game, wolfgang's downsides will be less and his upsides will be greater, so he's definitely worth the extra work.

Like I said, I like wolfgang and I like playing as him. But I'm not good enough that his downsides and quirks don't require significantly more work, which makes the first few season a lot less fun. Don't Starve is not a game that operates on thin margins like say, dark souls. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to play a light's out wes game and crush it.

[werlpolf]

For me, if I'm going to play a short game starting in autumn and part of winter, wigfrid and wolfgang both offer an aggressive playstyle. But wigfrid is more consistent and easier to play, and wolfgang represents a lot more work but a higher peak.

 

Actually, please don't compare Wigfrid with any other character. I played her the most times and when I got bored walking around biomes, seeing the dozens of skeletons reminded me, who I killed, I was so bored and changed therefore to another character. Since then I realized, how it is to play a mortal and leaving the god-mode-like playing style ( and how to face a Wigfrid as a weakling ).

 

Wolfgang compared to any other character is very fine. Also no one mentioned the damage and armor multiplier. Every armor a Wigfrid uses, has effectively around 33% more health points, including effects on her by the healing items.

 

EDIT:

Wigfrid has effectively around 33% more health points (0.25 damage absorbtion on health) - armor is not effected. If you use healing salve on her (+20 on health), your enemy need to make 26,67 damage to counter your healing effect). In most cases 80% will be already absorbed by armor. With a spear and normal character (34 dmg), your enemy would make 6,8 damage on Wigfrid health - means every healing salve usage will give Wigfrid at least an additional free hit absorbtion from the hostile character.

EDIT END

 

Of course there can be done more tuning - depending on every players style and experience. But if something need to be changed, then its Wigfrid or all other characters.

 

 

 

If wolfgang's wimpy and mighty forms both had the same hunger rate, say 2x, and the stats were consistent instead of scaling, everything that I find inefficient or busywork about wolfgang would be gone

 

See? I like how Wolfgang is. I like the chaning hunger rate. Its funny and interesting and different to others. Thats just a different oppinion. You might find it inefficient as I do to calculate, but hey, I also didn't calculate how much sanity I get when killing 8 spiders as Wigfrid ...

[Gingerbread]

The speed reduction in wimpy form is really obnoxious and his hunger drain coupled with higher sanity drain against monsters and darkness make him a huge chore to play.

 

Nobody can kill monsters faster than wolfgang.. (8 seconds facetank to kill deerclops in DS and 16 sec in DST.

 

And I tested out facetank with full stomach wolfgang (this test is made in DST). Only 1 helmet, 1 hambat and full stomach wolfgang can kill deerclops easily. His football helmet's durability will be 6% after facetank fight against deerclops.. He does not even become insane after deerclops fight in DST with facetank method. his sanity will be above 173/200 and hunger 280/300 if you enter to fight with full stomach-1.9x average damage for this specific fiht)

 

1.8x-1.9x average damage should have lil bit more sanity drain in return thats ok. No character can one hit kill a spider. now tell me who loses more sanity? a wolfgang that can one hit kill spiders or other chars? In most battles he can end the battle really fast and he is exposed to insanity aura much much more less than any other char. Darkness? who really stays in darkness for more than 5 seconds? charlie is out there to hit you.. So tell me what is going to be the sanity loss difference of a normal char and a wolfgang? 2 sanity points more loss for wolfgang? i am sure its not a big issue since his sanity is pretty high compared to most of the characters in the game.

 

Insanity is not a handicap for him..

 

his only handicap is food but food is redundant in the game. So, if you learn how to find food, you are gonna be good to go. Finding food in this game is too easy and remember the golden rule as you play with him... Always at least have 2 meatballs in your inventory and or grab all food you see while exploring. carrots, monster meat, anything... Try to keep his hunger in between 180-220 to easily become mighty when needed. you dont have to be a base boy with wolfgang. nomad life is easy with him too. just grab every food you see. learn how to kite and kill tallbirds pigs, merms tentacles etc... get all of the food and you are done. you will be the most badass character of your team and everybody will seek your protection when hound wave is comin.

[merkmerk73]

Yes when you're experienced at the game and you hit day 40 or whatever Wolfgang is good.

 

It doesn't make him any less obnoxious to play. Normal form draining so much hunger and the transformations *will* result in you getting hit at in opportune times are a huge pain.

[Gingerbread]

well you should give yourself a time.. First when he changes stage he is invincible although even he does not lose hp his armors lose durability. So if you dont wanna lose durability, you should know when to transform when to change form. you should keep track of it. as long as you want its too easy to keep him in normal form. when there would be a fight you should be ready before danger is comin and transform urself to mighty form and dont make urself just 230 hunger... go up to 300 so you can guarantee that you will not change form inside the fight. Dont lose even a second when you are mighty go fight till the end. dont eat something to become mighty for no reason so keep track of your hunger point and know food hunger values... dont become mighty just to kill 3 spiders or lets say a pig or 2, 3 pigs.. become mighty in hound attacks boss fights going to a killing spree such as destroying a spider biome destroying hound mounds, hound attacks coming for you after day 50s etc and hit 300 hunger only before this situations. dont use meaty stew use meatballs, bacon and eggs, honey ham etc.. or bunch of carrot, bunch of berries, stack of cooked meat from kolafant, beefalo etc....

 

seoncd thing is its not about when you hit day 40 he is good. he is good from the very beginning. I play nomad with him in dedic servers and I can find food without any base... If you know how to kite properly, you can easily kill deerclops with just 20 cooked cacti and a meatballs. its about combat skill of you, how you can find food, whether you are dependent upon one type of food or not etc... If you are looking to every living thing as food and if you know how to get that food, any char is too easy. think about that just killing a tallbird, 4 spiders (if all of them gives monster meat) and picking 6 berries or caps etc guarantees you to make 2 meatballs and a bacon and eggs. 75+125= 200 hunger just killing a tallbird and 4 spider. Always look for food even you have alot in your inventory. This is the strategy with him.. I mean lets say you are looking for rocks and you saw a catcoon go kill it and take its meat... do not focus on a mission and forget finding food.. Food is your priority. Always keep in mind that you must look for food. Food is in every biome but you just should know how to get them all. easy to find if you know what you are doing.

 

I was having hard times to keep him even alive in the very beginning and i even died starved with wolfgang in DS and i hated him that day but as you learn more, you see that wolfgang is too good for anything.

 

dont believe in people who says wolfgang and wigfrid needs a base and wickerbottom is for world rush.. you can rush world with even wes... believe in me. I always play as wolfgang, he is my fave character and i am 90% of the time nomad. And i can become mighty whenever needed

 

wolfgang aint a base boy.. he can be a nomad guy just like any other char.