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Maxwell. Wes. Woodie.

 

So recently I heard a little birdie on a little Twitch stream mention that Woodie and Wes may very well be on their way through the Jury-Rigged Portal in the next few weeks! (Yay)  :yaypigs:

 

Woodie's balance changes were discussed briefly and I think they're great! But Wes' weren't.. So now I'm curious as to how our friendly neighbourhood Mime has been changed/nerf'd. 

 

I cannot wait for Wes to be officially added as I run a PvP server where I have been dying to kill some over zealous Wigfrid's as our silent assailant. I didn't want to use Rez's mod for this purpose for various reasons, mainly that I want to keep the server mod-free.  So for now I have been hunting Wigfrid's as Wendy (without summoning Abigail) to at least keep with the lack of damage. 

 

A dev response would be great! (even if they shrouded the details in riddles and half answers :hypnotized: ) 

 

But this Topic is mainly because I'm curious to hear all your ideas as to how you think Woodie, Wes, and Maxwell could be balanced around DST. Why? For fun of course! 

 

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I can't really say much about Wes, other than the fact that his balloons might only be useable by him due to how broken it is in the hands of a dapper character (constant stun-exploding and multiple balloons with quick sanity regen), and it might have a durability (with hopefully ways of crafting it).

 

Maxwell... I guess his puppet will disappear if he dies (like actually dying), or if he logs out (disappear). The puppets are surprisingly weak and frail in terms of absorbing hits and since they don't kite like pigs do, they are just running into suicidal ram, especially against giant. I won't be surprised if they are nerfed further with a 1-hit death despite this. They might change the way Maxwell's dapperness works like how they did with Wigfrid's 'power' gaining from fallen monster, and his starting item as well. I actually won't be surprised either if his codex now has a durability, but at least have a way to craft it if that happens.

 

Woodie's case, I highly doubt they might make Lucy with durability, but if they did, at least there should be a way to craft it back like they did with Willow's lighter. His beaver form is probably gonna be a bit... irritating to get used to in DST, since you won't know if the players are trustworthy enough to get the items back to the woodie player, or steal and keep for themselves, even more so if there will be emergency light after he returns to his original form, as it can get rather difficult to play as him if the emergency light won't appear after his transformation back to a human being.

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Woodie's case, I highly doubt they might make Lucy with durability, but if they did, at least there should be a way to craft it back like they did with Willow's lighter. His beaver form is probably gonna be a bit... irritating to get used to in DST, since you won't know if the players are trustworthy enough to get the items back to the woodie player, or steal and keep for themselves, even more so if there will be emergency light after he returns to his original form, as it can get rather difficult to play as him if the emergency light won't appear after his transformation back to a human being.
I just hope they make Woodie not able to destroy player made structures and dig up and eat berry bushes, grass tufts, and saplings or at least the first part and not able to destroy structures cause like Woodie was my first favorite character in DS ROG mostly cause I sucked at killing giants and I love his quotes but if they do nerf him it I won't complain since there is always other great characters. ^_^
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I could've sworn that there was a tag, "balloonmaker" or something like that that only Wes had, meaning only he can use his balloons anyways. Likewise couldn't you just add a tag allowing only Maxwell to use his codex? Same with woodie and Lucy. That would mean Wes would require no rebalancing. Although I don't know how you'll swing Maxwell and woodie. I wasn't able to see the stream this week so I don't know about any changes they plan to make, but it seems to me werebeaver mode will be a doozy. The shadow clones should definitely live and die with Maxwell.

Edit: I could be wrong about the tags already existing, but I know it's easily enough done, I've done it myself with modded items, and if I can do it there's no way someone who's actually competent at coding couldn't. I haven't played with the Wes or Maxwell mods so my knowledge of their mechanics in multiplayer is limited.

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For anyone that didn't hear I'll list the changes to Woodie that were mentioned (None of this is set in stone, this is just what was said in the last stream, of course) 

 

  • Woodie now has his Log Meter badge while in human form.
  • Woodie can now eat Wood based resources while in human form to increase the Log Meter. (The possible effects on other stats from eating Wood wasn't mentioned)
  • When the Log Meter runs out Woodie will transform into the Werebeaver.
  • While in Werebeaver form Woodie will lose sanity. (Implies that the Werebeaver shares Woodies health, hunger & sanity status?)
  • To transform back Woodie must increase his Log Meter. (To 100 or 1, I don't believe a specific amount of Wood consumption was mentioned) 
  • There was no mention of a change to how Woodie reacts to Full Moons. (To my knowledge) 

 

Keep in mind this is what I remember from a Stream I watched a few days ago. I'm 99.99999999999999% sure that this is what I heard but I may have forgotten something.

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@PocketChicken, And it could also mean that Woodie is the ultimate weapon against trees, so long as Lucy is still infinite. Which she should be.. I understand the danger of an infinite lighter since it has griefing mildly attached to it but what could Lucy ever do to hurt anyone? 

 

Also this what @Johnnyprofane said about possible tagging being used would be great. If Lucy really is sentient then of course she would only allow Woodie to use her. Wes is a skilled practitioner of Balloonomancy so therefore only he would be able to use his Balloons. Maxwell is a big issue on his own.. Starting in singleplayer with those items was powerful enough, but in a multiplayer environment? It's down right insane! 

 

Still Klei has always been good when it comes to listening to the community so I'm sure that all 11 characters will be in the game and tied up with a little ribbon in no time. 

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New characters are good.

But I won't be excited until caves are added, honestly. The game is in desperate need of more content.

Desperate is a strong word, but I do have to say the caves and the ruins were just phenomenal. A lot of people say they're unnecessary but to that I say, video games in general are "unnecessary", they're time wasters. The caves and the ruins present new challenges and new adventures you can't find anywhere else. They're probably my favorite part of the regular game.

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Woodie looks nice this way he is even more unique . But they will need to do something about Wes too he was singleplayer hard mode so he needs a way to contribute to the group that's trying to survive not just drag them down ...

About the need of new content yea it really needs something new (caves or Through the Ages). I'm still playing the game but slowly losing interest after you build everything in the camp and survive 1 year there is just nothing more to do in the game nothing more to challenge you ... When you have played the game before (RoG in singleplayer) you are kinda used to all of it and ...

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@1v0, I know the feeling but I find it helps to play on PvP servers. Even if you want to team up with people and build a base, having the all present threat of a player attack makes everything seem just a little more fresh. Of course it also helps if you know how to fight players.

 

They had better not hurt my little Wes ;_; He's perfectly strong as it is!!! The sad thing is though I can already feel the mods that are going buff him if Klei doesn't.. Wes is the best looking character design (IMO) and I feel like the extra difficulty is well rewarded by just being able to see all those dance moves..

 

I mean come on! You say he does nothing for the team? Buff the aggro range on his Balloons or something, make 'em proper decoys sure! But you cannot say he does nothing for the team as there is nothing better than all of your team being huddled around the camp fire on a cold winters night while you all watch Wes mime constantly and sporadically to keep everyone's hope of seeing the next day high. 

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But you cannot say he does nothing for the team as there is nothing better than all of your team being huddled around the camp fire on a cold winters night while you all watch Wes mime constantly and sporadically to keep everyone's hope of seeing the next day high

 

Wes: *miming Deerclops approaching*

Others: Oh Wes, your antics are so amusing!

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Desperate is a strong word

 

Is it? I think everyone agrees that there isn't much to do once you build your base, which takes about 10-15 days for most experienced players. Add another 5-10 days to explore the map fully and you're basically done for that game.

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Is it? I think everyone agrees that there isn't much to do once you build your base, which takes about 10-15 days for most experienced players. Add another 5-10 days to explore the map fully and you're basically done for that game.

Well, that certainly could be the case, I won't argue that, but it's not because you have nothing to do. You could hunt Giants, hunt mctusk, hunt spider queens, farm some tree guards (basically there's a whole lot of hunting), hunt down and cage a varg for a fire farm, build a fire farm, beautify your base, delve into whatever magics are currently available (basically a few staves and a telelocator focus, how sad), find the pig king, set up a spider and pig farm (we really need bunnies so I'm only gonna half count this one). Other stuff I'm sure.

Basically, there's stuff to do, but I do agree we need caves as soon as possible. They just make the game so much better. But are we in desperate need of them? No. Well maybe. It's really hard to argue against it. They're just so great. I'm torn here!

Edit: if you're gonna hunt a varg you better put that sucker in a cage.

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Well, that certainly could be the case, I won't argue that, but it's not because you have nothing to do. You could hunt Giants, hunt mctusk, hunt spider queens, farm some tree guards (basically there's a whole lot of hunting), hunt down and a varg for a fire farm, build a fire farm, beautify your base, delve into whatever magics are currently available (basically a few staves and a telelocator focus, how sad), find the pig king, set up a spider and pig farm (we really need bunnies so I'm only gonna half count this one). Other stuff I'm sure.

Basically, there's stuff to do, but I do agree we need caves as soon as possible. They just make the game so much better. But are we in desperate need of them? No. Well maybe. It's really hard to argue against it. They're just so great. I'm torn here!

 

There's stuff to do, but it's all luxury and basically unnecessary for survival. Once you set up a reliable source of food and shelter (including appropriate weather protection), the game stops being "Don't Starve" and becomes a wilderness-themed "The Sims".

 

What the game needs is continuously increasing environmental challenges. Winter should start a bit cold and eventually progress into freak snowstorms that cause avalanches. Spring should start with regular rain and progress into torrential downpours that cause flash floods. And so on.

 

And there needs to be monsters during these events that aren't trivial to kite and dodge. Yetis that leap at you, alligators that emerge from flooded ponds and camouflage themselves against the terrain to ambush players, and so on.

 

Basically, things should never get too comfortable, even for experienced players. It should always be a matter of life and death. Otherwise what's the point of a game like this?

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Otherwise what's the point of a game like this?

The exact same as every other game, and every game that is yet to be made. The moment, the fun, the fear, the adventure.

Through the Ages is coming, and with it, a new door to adventure is kicked open and the corpses pile up! IT'S NON STOP FUN IN THE MADHOUSE!!!

 

 White coats are coming for me, they say my programming has turned to rot and the only explanation is IT'S TRUE! STARK RAVING TRUE! HAPPY DAYS

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The exact same as every other game, and every game that is yet to be made. The moment, the fun, the fear, the adventure. White coats are coming for me, they say my programming has turned to rot and the only explanation is IT'S TRUE! STARK RAVING TRUE! HAPPY DAYS

 

That's a pointless statement. And my question was rhetorical. The point of this game is survival, and the underlying context is pragmatism and practicality. That's why the early parts of the game are so fun: the decisions you make, such as where you build your base, have a large impact on how the rest of the game goes.

 

The issue is that once you have the practical aspects of survival taken care of, survival itself stops being challenging and the game stops being fun. Why do you think so many people leave before/around winter?

 

That's why caves are so critical: they make survival a challenge again, and allow the game to become fun again.

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The issue is that once you have the practical aspects of survival taken care of, survival itself stops being challenging and the game stops being fun. Why do you think so many people leave before/around winter?

 

I personally find winter and summer as rather boring states of the servers, at least in pvp publics scenarios. It's put in as a challenge, to create a goal (e.g. surviving the whole season), and making you focus on your actual survival. But it does limit your movement.

 

Now that shouldn't be a problem in general, but if you are in my situation and already survived a decent amount of winters, the fact that you have to shift your attention to immediately improve your survival situation, as you are limited to interact with others - it sets off the mood.

 

That's my experience at least when encountering a server (especially if I have a high ping there) that is just about to enclose autumn or spring. It is a casual gamestyle, but in my case, winter already became a spoiled challenge that asks for unwanted attention, so I'm more likely to play servers on neutral seasons.

 

If I have goals established on one server, as interacting with a particular person (whether it be friend or enemy), or if the server runs a really good machine with low latency, on the other hand, I'm in for a deal. Grinding winter again isn't that bad if, at the end of the day, you actually accomplish something by going through it.

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Maxwell should get more benefits from his max health. If he dies like 2 times his health cap will be ridiculous. and health penalties could be 10 or 5.

Wes is OP, nerf balloons pls (jk) Leave em as he is

Woodie could be generally "balanced" by only going werebeaver during the day, and at night he could lose his night vision or couldnt go werebeaver (Full moon is an exception), because of the glitch :| Woodie will PROBABLY have tons of glitches lol.

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Because woodie has Night vision, does this mean we can see charlie in the dark now? ;o That'd be very exciting, considering I dont expect them to get hit by an invisible entity lol

Because woody now has more control over when he turns werebeaver and he only will turn during the full moon (presumably) without any say in the matter, they may not give him night vision at all. You should've kept a better eye on your log meter if you get stuck out in the dark. Alternatively they could just give him a small light source, like giant glowing beaver eyes or something.

Oooooor they've finally figured out how to address the problem and we may see Charlie, we may not.

Edit: it's exciting either way though isn't it?

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Confession: I've never played as Woodie before. Ever.

 

That said, Maxwell is my favorite DS character, and I've been running the mod to get him into DST but I've noticed his shadows don't play well. Really looking forward to the official version. Also, is it ever confirmed to be Charlie? 

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