Bearger impossible to fight?

[XirmiX]

So, I know that the hybernation yawn made him harder, but honestly it's impossible to fight him unless you tank him or use gun powder or something. Even if multiple players went for him, they'd all get locked in the hybernation yawn, and it's not like the Bearger goes to sleep himself after yawning (the way he does it and then going straight after you makes me think he's taunting me as if it's very easy to beat me... Which it is for him :/ )

Even if every player used ranged weapons, he'd still get you. Even when I'm quite far away, my character gets caught! I feel that the range of it is too big. And the fact that your player feels drowzy after that makes it impossible to kite him and by the time you recover, he already makes another yawn.

I think it's not that it is an OP feature for him, but that it is done by him way too often. I've not seem him rage-run in DST since this was implemented! It feels like he is harder to fight than the Dragonfly as his attack makes him very hard to beat. I'd recommend if the yawn was done x3 less often so that players can actually hit him a few times while still avoiding his hibernation yawn.

Not only that, but now he only sleeps! He doesn't gulp down any food, but just sleeps while nothing is attacking him! I really think his mechanics need to be fixed up a little so that the rage-run attack would have some space to be made and so that he would also eat stuff instead of constantly sleeping. Btw, for some reason he spawned in during Spring, idk what's up with that.

[Auth]

I fought him and never got a yawn

 

guess im just lucky

 

also i had a bazillion treeguards, tentacles, and i even got some hounds to attack him.

 

who fights stuff themselves amirite

[Johnny5isAlive]

@XirmiX, I haven't tested this but I was under the impression that he only does his Hibernation yawn while he is hibernating AKA only in Winter. So just wait 16 days and then kill him. 

 

EDIT: Just tested it and yes he does only do the yawn during Hibernation. I spawned a Bearger in autumn, killed it fine. Switched to Winter and did the same thing and he spammed his yawn, eventually killed him but it was a little harder due to the slower movement speed. Then I spawned him in Winter and after he had done 3 yawns I switched it to Autumn and he stopped Yawning. It is definitely only in Winter so I don't see this as a problem, even I could still solo him with the yawns it just took much longer.

 

The lesson we learned today, let sleeping Beargers lie.

[RalphKastro]

He had a tough season. Let the guy sleep, for goodness sake.

[XirmiX]

He had a tough season. Let the guy sleep, for goodness sake.

No! Kill him! He does not deserve to live!

[Johnny5isAlive]

@XirmiX, B-but he's so adorable!  

[XirmiX]

@XirmiX, I haven't tested this but I was under the impression that he only does his Hibernation yawn while he is hibernating AKA only in Winter. So just wait 16 days and then kill him.

EDIT: Just tested it and yes he does only do the yawn during Hibernation. I spawned a Bearger in autumn, killed it fine. Switched to Winter and did the same thing and he spammed his yawn, eventually killed him but it was a little harder due to the slower movement speed. Then I spawned him in Winter and after he had done 3 yawns I switched it to Autumn and he stopped Yawning. It is definitely only in Winter so I don't see this as a problem, even I could still solo him with the yawns it just took much longer.

The lesson we learned today, let sleeping Beargers lie.

That's not a Winter-only thing, as this happened to me in Spring. And wtf is that guy doing in the world during the rest of the seasons?! I feel that the yawn update because of this was completely pointless, cause why not just make him despawn when Autumn goes away?! I mean Dragonfly and Gmoose despawn and come back with full health even more frequently, what's the problem with Bearger not having this?

And I'm very sick and tired of this mess that each giant has! They're all way too different in order to understand their spawning functions from the get-go:

Dragonfly:

No. of bases: 1

Spawns near player: false

Health multiplier: x10

Loot: Scales x1, Meat x8, (a bunch of gems for some ******* reason, they couldn't just add more scales!)

Season spawn: all

Season stay: all

Bearger:

No. of bases: 0

Spawns near player: true

Health multiplier: x2

Loot: Thick fur x1, Meat x8, (loots Fur tufts every so often)

Season spawn: Autumn

Season stay: all

Gmoose:

No. of bases: on default 3 or more

Spawns near player: false

Health multiplier: x2

Loot: Down feather 3 - 5, Meat x6, Drumstick x2

Season spawn: Spring

Season stay: Spring

Deerclops:

No. of bases: 0

Spawns near player: true

Health multiplier: x2

Loot: Deerclops eyeball x1, Meat x8

Season spawn: Winter

Season stay: Winter

I mean, the amount of difference in the difference is just making players utterly confused and the way the giants work now just looks as if it's a good mod which went terribly wrong! For what reason would multiple players need to fight a giant to get some stupid gems and only still have 1 of the special drops looted (or enough only for 1 person)?! That's utterly rubbish! Don't you think it would be much more convenient and understandable if the differences had a lot more in common? Why do we have 2 giants with bases and 2 that don't?! Why do we have that there are multiple Gmoose bases and we can have multiple ones of them at the same time whilst we only have one dragonfly base?! Why is the dragonfly the only giant with x10 health while all the other giants have x2?! Why are the giants no longer accordingly seasonal?! Why is the dragonfly not angry when aggroed on something (I'm not talking about the rage-mode but about dragonfly having idle look on her when she's aggroed on something. At least give her an angry face when she's aggroed!). If giants were balanced like this, it would be much more convenient:

Dragonfly:

No. of bases: 0 on none, 1 on less, 2 on default, 3 on more, 4 on lots

Spawns near player: false

Health multiplier: x3

Season spawn: Summer

Season stay: Summer

Loot: Scales x5, Meat x20, Scale piece x30 (loots less if some have been sheded)

Bearger:

No. of bases: 0 on none, 1 on less, 2 on default, 3 on more, 4 on lots

Spawns near player: false

Health multiplier: x3

Season spawn: Autumn

Season stay: Autumn

Loot: Thick fur x5, Meat x20, Fur tuft x30 (loots less if some have been sheded)

Gmoose:

No. of bases: 0 on none, 1 on less, 2 on default, 3 on more, 4 on lots

Spawns near player: false

Health multiplier: x3

Season spawn: Spring

Season stay: Spring

Loot: down feather x30 (loots less if some have been sheded), Meat x18, Drumstick x2

Deerclops:

No. of bases: 0 on none, 1 on less, 2 on default, 3 on more, 4 on lots

Spawns near player: false

Health multiplier: x3

Season spawn: Winter

Season stay: Winter

Loot: Deerclops eyeball x1, Meat x20, Deerclops eyeball lense x4, Puff (Bunny puff) x30 (loots less if some have been sheded)

Why not make it more synchronised in terms of things like base/player location spawning, amount of health multiplier and leaving them in their original seasons to spawn?! What was it that made devs make such changes that can completely confuse players?!

[Auth]

Odd, on my world Mgoose was set to normal, yet has 6 or 7 spawns. I don't remember how much exactly, but it's a good source of meat and down feathers.

 

Now we just need renewable volt goats, dragonfly to drop four or so scales, and bearger to have a severely nerfed thick fur recipe (99 fur tufts.... really?) and we'll all be fine.

[Johnny5isAlive]

Dragonfly: No. of bases: 1 Spawns near player: false Health multiplier: x10 Loot: Scales x1, Meat x8, (a bunch of gems for some ******* reason, they couldn't just add more scales!) Season spawn: all Season stay: all

 

I've gotten more than 1 scale before, the max I ever got from one Dragonfly was 3 scales. I'm not sure what exactly causes this but it seems like sometimes when Dragonfly takes damage she has a chance to drop scales. I've definitely seen scales drop multiple times before she died. Still I don't know what triggers this, it's not a set amount of damage because I've fought and killed her a few times and only gotten the 1 scale for the kill and yet other times - usually when she spawns Lavae - I've seen scales just drop off her. It feels like maybe each attack has a 0.01% chance to drop a scale or something like that.

[DarkXero]

@Johnny5isAlive, I explained that here:

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/53193-near-invincible-dragonfly/

[Johnnyprofane]

I personally like the variability in the Giants. It adds variety to the game. Im perfectly fine with the deerclops being like a cyclops and being sort of a legend, just showing up occasionally with no base, the bird having a nest, the bear hibernating, and the dragon having a lair. Although for sure the dragonfly should drop a minimum of two scales, with a max of like... 5. Given the 10x health.

Edit: made my comment more constructive and less snarky. Although I personally thought my first comment was funnier I didn't want to offend.

[RalphKastro]

And I'm very sick and tired of this mess that each giant has! They're all way too different in order to understand their spawning functions from the get-go:

Oh noooo. Variety! What a terrible thing. Kill it. Burn it. Grief it.

I actually like the idea of the giants, being entirely different creatures, acting and living in entirely different ways. Why should a giant fly dragon monster thing have to behave in the same way a big Goose-faced Moose? At least now they might feel more fleshed out and less like Deerclops Reskin for season X. Don't get me wrong, some tuning must be had, but you seem to be complaining about things that can possibly enhance gameplay.

Loot: Scales x1, Meat x8, (a bunch of gems for some ******* reason, they couldn't just add more scales!)

yeah. I don't get the gems either. I'm guessing it's just some placeholder in order to make the player feel like they got a lot of treasure for killing the Thing. I hope they change it to something more unique or at least less non-sensical(or change the dragon fly to be diamond incrusted.)

Why not make it more synchronised in terms of things like base/player location spawning, amount of health multiplier and leaving them in their original seasons to spawn?!

because that would be boring.

[FTR]

XirmiX

 

I absolutely disagree. I LOVE diversity that Klei added to their giants mechanic, why would anyone want to simplify it or make it easier to get loot!?

 

I even think they should add even more giants and even more various mechanics and maybe some random events to exsisting ones. Basically the more time it will take you to understand how something works, the better.

 

The fact that 2 of those giants "seek" for player makes game even more interesting and makes 2 most difficult seasons even more challenging, so that's awesome, there is no way it can be changed!

 

I really dislike "simplicity" ideology that some games follow these days. For me the more complicated is the game, the more options it has - the better. If things are the same or follow same mechanic it makes game so boring.

[TemporaryMan]

@XirmiX, how is the difference between giants confusing?  The bearger needs to eat before it hibernates the rest of the year, the deerclops is only around in winter and hates structures, the mgoose is migratory and only hanging around long enough to build nests and raise moslings, and the dragonfly is frightfully tough and stays in its lair.  Each one has its own distinct personality.  Seems simple and easy to remember for me and I haven't even played DST yet.

 

As for not getting enough thick fur or scales for everyone on the server from just one giant, Klei might actually want you to need to survive several years before everyone is fully kitted out with the best gear.  They kept saying people were getting too cozy too fast for their liking.  So now one player gets an eyebrella, everyone else has to make do with ordinary umbrellas, and there's a reason to look forward to killing another deerclops next year.

[XirmiX]

XirmiX

I absolutely disagree. I LOVE diversity that Klei added to their giants mechanic, why would anyone want to simplify it or make it easier to get loot!?

I even think they should add even more giants and even more various mechanics and maybe some random events to exsisting ones. Basically the more time it will take you to understand how something works, the better.

The fact that 2 of those giants "seek" for player makes game even more interesting and makes 2 most difficult seasons even more challenging, so that's awesome, there is no way it can be changed!

I really dislike "simplicity" ideology that some games follow these days. For me the more complicated is the game, the more options it has - the better. If things are the same or follow same mechanic it makes game so boring.

Look, the fact that I'm going to work on a mod project dedicated to DS's overhaul makes it very clear that simplicity isn't what I was talking about. Or the fact that, hmm, I was talking about difference in difference and NOT difference! Having each giant with unique fighting abilities, different tactics to fight them and all that is cool but having one giant a bagillion more health than the other giants and loot a rainbow full of gems because that's a ******* genious idea is just the most bullshit thing that they could have evr come up with. Not only that, but the fact that devs couldn't even be asked to make non-rage-mode aggroe animations for dragonfly, whivh would be very easy to actually do is just making me think that either Klei watched too mucb into Yamato's or Asparagus' face and thought "you know what, lets leave the dragonfly to have a weird O_O face while aggroed and fighting and not in rage mode, because why the **** not?!"

This kind of randomised bullshit that is being spewed into this game and not reworked just because "too much effort" or something which goes for Volt goats being a total waste of a mob (OP in getting food and not being more logical like the beefalo), rock lobsters conquering the world with boss amount of health even though they're not technically bosses and devs KNOW that the this is a problem and do nothing about it and don't even make a temporary solution, all this bullshit in the game makes me so mad that I just wanna own that game and put some good changes and rework everything to the smallest piece of action so that something this stupid isn't being put in place. The fact is that now Weather Pains and Luxury Fans are so easy to get your hands on than Scalemails and Scaled chests even though they're all just as useful. I hate this kind of bullshit and I hate that people don't recognise this.

The fact that devs went into making a Gmoose nest for her base and Dragonfly's base with lava ponds in desrt is cool and all and I think that's where they went in the right direction, but as soon as they started making these bullshit anomales in giants, that's where they went down hill with them. For giants in a group to be called giants, they need things in common. In single player they all had a lot of things in common, but now in multiplayer I don't even know what to categorise them as or how because the vast amount of things they had in common were not changed collectively but individually. And the fact that the giants are no longer season based just makes me sad - that's the biggest and worst change for the giants they made so far.

[Johnnyprofane]

The only things giants need in common to be called giants is their size. Are they exceptionally large? If the answer is yes then they, sir, are a giant. Boom. Lawyer-ed. I wanted to say it was silly that the dragonfly drops gems, but then I realized that dragons hoard shiny things, like gold and gems. So really it aught to drop some gold as well with the other loot. It would be cooler if there was a loot pile that you could mine and it would drop gold and gems each time you hit it that the dragonfly guarded. Then there would be no reason for it to inexplicably drop them.

Edit: you know, like a sweet pile of gold bullion and gems and a random crown. That would be great.

[XirmiX]

The only things giants need in common to be called giants is their size. Are they exceptionally large? If the answer is yes then they, sir, are a giant. Boom. Lawyer-ed. I wanted to say it was silly that the dragonfly drops gems, but then I realized that dragons hoard shiny things, like gold and gems. So really it aught to drop some gold as well with the other loot. It would be cooler if there was a loot pile that you could mine and it would drop gold and gems each time you hit it that the dragonfly guarded. Then there would be no reason for it to inexplicably drop them.

Edit: you know, like a sweet pile of gold bullion and gems and a random crown. That would be great.

*eye is twitching*

 

*sarcasm* You know what, I'm gonna make a mod where everything except the player is a giant, how about that?

 

If a mob with 10hp and a mob with 100 000hp are both giants just because they are both the same size, then I don't know what the hell this game is anymore.

 

This is not about them being just giants, but also SEASONAL giants. Not only that, but relative to their size they would all need approximately the same amount of health, which is not the case.

[Johnnyprofane]

*eye is twitching*

*sarcasm* You know what, I'm gonna make a mod where everything except the player is a giant, how about that?

If a mob with 10hp and a mob with 100 000hp are both giants just because they are both the same size, then I don't know what the hell this game is anymore.

This is not about them being just giants, but also SEASONAL giants. Not only that, but relative to their size they would all need approximately the same amount of health, which is not the case.

They're no longer seasonal giants, but who cares? Why should anything besides vegetation only exist in a single season? Do bears just magically disappear when snow starts falling? I admit it would be better if the bearger could be found in the caves hi-bear-nating once they're implemented rather than just out in the open but still.

Also, why do you hate variety so very much. Why can't the dragonfly have more health than everything else? Did you ever stop to think perhaps it has nothing to do with its size and maybe more to do with the fact that instead of being covered in warm fur, feathers, or ...deerclops fur... It's covered in DRAGON(fly) SCALES. Perhaps it isn't that it's supposed to have 27.5k health but that there is no damage reduction system for mobs, only players, and that giving it tons of health rather than reducing all damage it takes by 80-90% was a cleaner(easier) solution.

And don't complain that if that's the case they should do that in DS. Because we both know that's a ludicrous idea and would make it invincible versus a single player (not accounting for gunpowder of course). Pluuuuuus, DS dragon flys only has enough scales on it for a single drop, versus DST dragonfly which can drop much more depending on how you fight it. So perhaps The DS dragonfly just doesn't have enough scales to give the damage mitigation necessary.

P.S. Make your all giant world mod. I would play that. It would be like super Mario 3 world 5 or whichever. Man. That game.

Edit: do you have any complaints about the dragon's hoarding loot thing? Because I've seen you in other threads complaining and I think it's a perfectly reasonable (although not perfectly perfect) explanation. Thoughts?

2nd edit: forgot about rock lobsters. There is technically damage mitigation for mobs, but still it's easier coding wise to change 1 number rather than change an entire line. I know it's not that much more work but my explanation is stil viable. Also pigs wearing football helmets. I'm aware the same coding can be used to mitigate damage on anything (I think anyways, I've done hardly any moding or code-diving).

[Dave0522]

So, I know that the hybernation yawn made him harder, but honestly it's impossible to fight him unless you tank him or use gun powder or something. Even if multiple players went for him, they'd all get locked in the hybernation yawn, and it's not like the Bearger goes to sleep himself after yawning (the way he does it and then going straight after you makes me think he's taunting me as if it's very easy to beat me... Which it is for him :/ )

Even if every player used ranged weapons, he'd still get you. Even when I'm quite far away, my character gets caught! I feel that the range of it is too big. And the fact that your player feels drowzy after that makes it impossible to kite him and by the time you recover, he already makes another yawn.

I think it's not that it is an OP feature for him, but that it is done by him way too often. I've not seem him rage-run in DST since this was implemented! It feels like he is harder to fight than the Dragonfly as his attack makes him very hard to beat. I'd recommend if the yawn was done x3 less often so that players can actually hit him a few times while still avoiding his hibernation yawn.

Not only that, but now he only sleeps! He doesn't gulp down any food, but just sleeps while nothing is attacking him! I really think his mechanics need to be fixed up a little so that the rage-run attack would have some space to be made and so that he would also eat stuff instead of constantly sleeping. Btw, for some reason he spawned in during Spring, idk what's up with that.

 

 

I found this tutorial helpful.

 

[XirmiX]

They're no longer seasonal giants, but who cares? Why should anything besides vegetation only exist in a single season? Do bears just magically disappear when snow starts falling? I admit it would be better if the bearger could be found in the caves hi-bear-nating once they're implemented rather than just out in the open but still.

Also, why do you hate variety so very much. Why can't the dragonfly have more health than everything else? Did you ever stop to think perhaps it has nothing to do with its size and maybe more to do with the fact that instead of being covered in warm fur, feathers, or ...deerclops fur... It's covered in DRAGON(fly) SCALES. Perhaps it isn't that it's supposed to have 27.5k health but that there is no damage reduction system for mobs, only players, and that giving it tons of health rather than reducing all damage it takes by 80-90% was a cleaner(easier) solution.

And don't complain that if that's the case they should do that in DS. Because we both know that's a ludicrous idea and would make it invincible versus a single player (not accounting for gunpowder of course). Pluuuuuus, DS dragon flys only has enough scales on it for a single drop, versus DST dragonfly which can drop much more depending on how you fight it. So perhaps The DS dragonfly just doesn't have enough scales to give the damage mitigation necessary.

P.S. Make your all giant world mod. I would play that. It would be like super Mario 3 world 5 or whichever. Man. That game.

Edit: do you have any complaints about the dragon's hoarding loot thing? Because I've seen you in other threads complaining and I think it's a perfectly reasonable (although not perfectly perfect) explanation. Thoughts?

It's not that I hate variety much, but variety in variety (I think I said something like that before), so for example, in mathematics there are sequences like:

 

2, 4, 6, 8, 10 etc.

 

And the difference is 2, however, If I was to have a sequence that is like this:

 

8, 12, 18, 27, 40, 58

 

the sequence would be much more complicated. Now, I do like variety in things, but the idea of having seasonal giants and them all having a lot in common seems much better, and I am not the only one who thinks that they should be seasonal (Btw, nice idea of having Bearger hibernate in caves during all the other seasons. I was thinking something similar that may be during all the seasons except Spring, Gmoose would be in the sky somewhere, and so would be the Dragonfly, but not during Summer. And Deerclops... Under the sea somewhere while it's not Winter?). It was awesome the way it was, of course it is awesome to have bases for giants and have more expanded on them, but the in terms of expanding on giants' behaviours and features, I think that devs went the wrong way. And if giants are gonna have high amounts of health it's better if every giant has round about the same amount. I'd recommend having all health x3 instead of x10 that of single player, though.

[XirmiX]

I found this tutorial helpful.

Though... try and beat the Dragonfly with your bare fists and no armour or something and lose no health (during the battle as well). Then I'd take your word for it

[Johnnyprofane]

It's not that I hate variety much, but variety in variety (I think I said something like that before), so for example, in mathematics there are sequences like:

2, 4, 6, 8, 10 etc.

And the difference is 2, however, If I was to have a sequence that is like this:

8, 12, 18, 27, 40, 58

the sequence would be much more complicated. Now, I do like variety in things, but the idea of having seasonal giants and them all having a lot in common seems much better, and I am not the only one who thinks that they should be seasonal (Btw, nice idea of having Bearger hibernate in caves during all the other seasons. I was thinking something similar that may be during all the seasons except Spring, Gmoose would be in the sky somewhere, and so would be the Dragonfly, but not during Summer. And Deerclops... Under the sea somewhere while it's not Winter?). It was awesome the way it was, of course it is awesome to have bases for giants and have more expanded on them, but the in terms of expanding on giants' behaviours and features, I think that devs went the wrong way. And if giants are gonna have high amounts of health it's better if every giant has round about the same amount. I'd recommend having all health x3 instead of x10 that of single player, though.

Ok. Sorry for making assumptions. But would you settle for a dragonfly with a reasonable amount of health and armor? And again, what about the gold/gem hoarding pile over the random, unexplained dropping of "a rainbow of gems" as you once put it?

I agree, besides whimsy there is no reason for the dragonfly having 27.5k health, but having 27.5k health and 27.5k equivalent health are very different things. Because the lair is so hot regardless of the season I don't think that the dragonfly needs to disappear from it, but I do think it should sleep, or do something other than mindlessly buzz around doing nothing.

Additionally, we can't settle for 3x the health of a player because that's already what things like worms, larvae, and beefalo have. 10x is even only 1500, which tree guards exceed. Although I don't believe any giant needs more health than the largest tree guard. Simply because... Well compare the two. Honestly. But again this can be solved with damage mitigation. Or maybe the bearger will yawn when damaged too much regardless of the season and snorlax it's way back to full health. Who knows.

Edit: phone autocorrected well to we'll. stupid phone.

[XirmiX]

10x is even only 1500

... what?

 

Ok, besides that, considering the rest of what you said, here's something that I said before quite a while ago:

 

"Health or defence is not the main factor which makes a giant hard to fight. It is offense that is the main factor here, hence why mobs such as Mosslings are quite difficult and easily can make you lose health, even if it's just one of them."

 

If giants' health is set to x3, but their offense or attacks are made more randomised and that there would be variety of different type of attacks, then the giant will be more or less hard in difficulty to fight that if it had a bagillion health and simple attacks with simple order. So, say normally a giant such as Dragonfly would attack 2 or 3 times via swipe attack and then do the stomp. What would make her a much better of a giant is if she would have 60% chance of doing a swipe attack, 30% chance of doing a stomp attack and 10% chance of doing an attack where she would spew/blow/throw fire like a flame thrower (which could set the players/mobs around her 180 degrees in circumference and 2 turf lengths radius on fire), but if either the stomp or the flame throw attack are both done, there would be a 100% chance of a swipe attack in the next attack to occur. Of course, the Larvae from her egg would make things all so more difficult, but that's besides the point.

[Flare2V]

Hooray, another "I couldn't do it so it's impossible" Xirmix thread.

[Johnnyprofane]

... what?

I read of A SINGLE PLAYER, as in 10x Wilson health, not 10x the health of single player, AKA DS. My bad.

Considering everything else you said, raid bosses aren't about difficulty necessarily, but endurance. You could have a 10 second fight be tremendously dangerous but it doesn't give the same feeling as fighting for 2 minutes and having to worry about other environmental factors, like night fall, heat stroke, sanity, etc. The fight would be more interactive and interesting your way (some would argue otherwise) , sure, because you would have to pay attention and not just be robotic and methodical. But they wouldn't necessarily be more difficult. With your method you can easily dispatch a dragonfly with a handful of gunpowder rather than the stacks and stacks it takes to kill her now. Which trivializes the fight even more than currently, which is only trivialized through Herculean efforts of egg and nitre gathering, and like, 2 burnt forests.

Edit: more autocorrects