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Reason why insanity aura from a ghost player in survival is bulls***


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So, one person dies. Other players have their own problems, so the player has to stay as a ghost for a while until the other players have the time to resurrect the other player and get enough stuff for the dead player to use to get their stats up once resurrected. But while the other players are minding their own business for the time being, they get insanity aura because someone somewhere is a ghost, which gives EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER another problem; the insanity. This basically makes other players leave what they're doing and get resources for resurrecting the dead player, without even having the time to get stuff for the player to get their stats up after resurrected, which might as well mean that this player will die not long after they get resurrected and the only solution then is for the dead player to leave until the other players get enough stuff to resurrect that player. I would understand if the players go insanity aura for being right next to the ghost player, but not if they are on the other end of the world. This mechanic is completely rubbish, which is why people who know about this mechanic a lot usually choose to make an Endless type of world over the Survival one, making Survival a default trick for newbies and that's all to it. Having insanity aura for every single other player from the ghost player while the others are far away does not make it Survival a nice difference between Endless. Endless means you can always easily continue playing after dying, while survival is to make sure everyone stays alive (which becomes impossible if the players don't resurrect the dead players in time).

 

What do you guys think? Agree? Disagree? Share your thoughts!

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I agree and disagree.

 

I agree that all players shouldn't be negatively affected by someone else's actions.

 

But then again, if it were singleplayer, that player would be permanently dead, so a bit (maybe a lot, I haven't played DST in a while) of sanity isn't that much for an extra chance to resurrect.

 

 

 

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I think the sanity drain is mostly okay, but being able to circumvent it by leaving should not be possible (that's really what breaks it as a gameplay mechanic, the rest of the scenario you describe-- pushing you to drop what you're doing and go revive the player, etc-- is exactly what they wanted with the sanity drain).

 

But I think if Endless were the default mode, a lot of things would be nicer.

 

We're also still lacking a true hardcore mode (i.e. one that really lives up to the degree of punishment for death that exists in singleplayer). Something that might work would be one like Survival, but with invisible, powerless ghosts and no telltale hearts.

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May I also suggest that if you exclude the console and the OPness that some of the mods bring, we have the mechanics of the worlds always benefiting the host really. I mean, the host can disconnect and reconnect to stop themselves from dying to night and the host can ban/kick whoever they dislike. I know we have a report system, but it doesn't seem like a system that would work. Even dedicated servers can be host controlled after created! I'm not saying this because I'm an anarchist, but rather due to PvP reasons. Yes, the host could be generous and not care if someone kills them in a PvP server and not for griefing reasons, but for the reason of PvP availability, however for a PvP server, it would be better to take on a more anarchic approach, so that the host isn't in power but just as equal as every other player and kicking/banning someone would work in a way that if a certain amount of people vote a person to be kicked or banned, that only then it would happen like such. And I know that this has some problems like host being banned from their own server or people not actually caring to ban/kick a griefer, but that could be fixed in some way. This also doesn't just apply to PvP servers, but also public hosted servers.

The whole thing is that DS wasn't meant to be a multiplayer game, so now really it's gone to a point where multiplayer experience in this game could be quite difficult to work the right way.

EDIT: Going back to topic, do you think roofs should be a thing? I'm sure that there is a way of implementing the roofs, even if it looks quite difficult (because DS, even though working in 2D, it is based on layers, so if First Person camera view is possible, roofs should be too, right?). And may be the walls should have another texture so that the walls don't look weird half the time you rotate your screen?

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Survival is meant to be a cooperative experience where you trust people to work with each other in order to survive. Endless or Wilderness are your choices if you don't want that.

Part of teamwork is planning ahead for the deaths. First day, I'm looking for spiders while I'm gathering. If I find them, I make a single trap and farm a bit. Bam, I have a gland. I can now fix anyone who dies early. The game is all about preparation and making sure you have the things you need in advance. Certainly, if Deerclops suddenly shows up and you haven't prepared for it at all, it should be a large threat to your survival. If you're highly prepared, with sleep darts and gunpowder, or multiple Treeguards around to fight it, or any number of other possibilities, you're fine. Deaths are like that. You have the ability to prepare in advance for them and should. However, they take relatively little to prepare for. HP of all players needs to be kept up with to the point where someone can craft a heart, and you need to have a few glands lying around. Not too big of a deal.

If you don't trust other players or just want a casual game where you don't have to worry about each other, pick Endless.

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Survival is meant to be a cooperative experience where you trust people to work with each other in order to survive. Endless or Wilderness are your choices if you don't want that.

I agree, if hosts want good games with good feedback, Endless should be that mode.

I played on Endless w/ 3 friends, it was a good experience honestly. 

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I have actually had really good games on survival. I always plan to have people possibly die and we have never gotten stuck with someone dead that we couldn't revive. It has gotten to the point where I usually host survival games with the difficulty settings slightly raised and get complete strangers, though I do add anyone who is both competent and friendly to try and build my friends list. 

I have never kicked anyone for dying and actively encourage them to stay. I only have had to kick anyone for griefing or for hugging the base and leeching after being told to do something else. People often become so embarrassed after a minor mishap and try to leave out of shame, assuming we are all about to yell at them. This, to me, is a sign that perhaps other players are not as kind. 

The game is so trivial and devoid of long-term goals at this point that Endless honestly has no appeal to me. But I am glad it is there for people that simply can't or don't want to try to be a party organizer. There's a reason not everyone is the "Raid Leader." Okay, well, Endless does have some appeal for worlds where I just want to screw around and spawn 10 Killer Bee hives near the spawn point.


Usual Survival settings: 

+Less Carrots
+Less Berries 
+More Treeguards
+More Deerclops (actually spawns every Winter)

Basically less freebie starting food, so that hunger is actually a factor, and more bosses. Besides, Deerclops otherwise never seems to show up. I've had players that honestly did not know what it was at all despite having logged many hours in the game.

Sometimes other things to spice it up. Usually the game still starts to get stale after the first Winter, where the base is so stocked and protected that few things threaten us, and we've already killed the only seasonal boss, but well, beta is beta. We will have caves and RoG giants eventually to add some lasting gameplay. 

I just can't agree that Endless is the only way to get good games with happy players because it simply hasn't been my experience. Very few of my games have turned out poorly overall.

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I cant really say that this is really an issue, given the fact that the player has to equip a garland or a tophat to stop the sanity drain of one person. If this is too much and people are dying, its simple enough to play endless, which is basically the same thing, just no reset and everyone doesnt share a ghost insanity aura.

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I'd also have to disagree. Survival is ment to be played with a close group of friends. The sanity drain is there to pressure you to rez your friends as fast as possible. Let's not forget this is Don't Starve. This game is not easy. Playing survival with randoms is not something you want to be doing. 

 

Of course, I could see someone modding this out of the game :p (looking a you know who :p [mr. rez])

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As it says in the description of don't starve's microsite, this game is supposed to be an uncompromising survival game in which you get punished for not being able to actually survive its challenges and mechanics, and the farther you get into it, the easier you get used to micromanaging and playstyles. That's why it's called uncompromising. There is no point if new people aren't constantly being forced out of their comfort zone, because they will never understand anything about this game other than the strategies they heard of when they first played the game. Going easy on new players from the start cuts out a lot of the game's replayability and entertainment.

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I agree. A dead person should be kicked from the server and never come back. It's not "Don't Starve Together", it's "Let's Not Be serious Together". The spirit of the game is just gone with this multiplayer.

 

That would make the 2 player games with my wife impossible. "Oh, I died, time to restart the server completely, nevermind the telltale heart in the chest"

 

I'm sure it never dawned on ya, but there are people playing differently than you. 

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As it says in the description of don't starve's microsite, this game is supposed to be an uncompromising survival game in which you get punished for not being able to actually survive its challenges and mechanics, and the farther you get into it, the easier you get used to micromanaging and playstyles. That's why it's called uncompromising. There is no point if new people aren't constantly being forced out of their comfort zone, because they will never understand anything about this game other than the strategies they heard of when they first played the game. Going easy on new players from the start cuts out a lot of the game's replayability and entertainment.

If you think that, then you have no idea what it's like to talk to jerks.

No one should be putting up with someone who doesn't want to work together. I mean it even says it in the title: Don't Starve Together

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I'd also have to disagree. Survival is ment to be played with a close group of friends. The sanity drain is there to pressure you to rez your friends as fast as possible. Let's not forget this is Don't Starve. This game is not easy. Playing survival with randoms is not something you want to be doing. 

 

Of course, I could see someone modding this out of the game :razz: (looking a you know who :razz: [mr. rez])

 

I agree and disagree.

Yes, it's meant to be played together, but it shouldn't stop people wanting to play by themselves, like say, pvp.

On the other hand, why just friends? I understand that was more of the intended method with the game, because obviously you would want to play with friends, if anything for your own safety, but there should be something implemented into the game where it would be easier to play with a group of strangers.

I mean, when you think about it, it makes sense, doesn't it?

Wilson didn't get himself teleported there with a bunch of friends, after all.

I think the game should encourage strangers to work together, build up friendships, that sort of thing.

As for sanity drain.... Hmmm......

I personally do not like it, but I understand why it is there.

The mechanic that is meant to help people work together also punishes everyone. It is quite a vexing clash of ideas.

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It IS stressful to play with strangers because of this.  Oftentimes, I'll be on the opposite side of the world from someone who died with no idea how to find them, trying to give them directions to my base while I'm in the middle of something important, such as fending off a treeguard or running from an army of homeless spiders who have nothing better to do than chase after me all night long.  Sometimes it just isn't feasible to drop everything you're doing to heal someone, especially if they're dying repeatedly due to a lack of experience.

 

On the one hand, you would think this would encourage people to help new players.  And it does... While they're still alive.  Once they die, however, it quickly tends to breed resentment, with everyone getting mad at the ghost and demanding that they leave the server.  I feel like a penalty SHOULD be applied to encourage people to help revive ghosts, but this is just too much.  Maybe if the sanity drain increased or decreased based on how long the person had been alive.  Like, if someone who's been alive through the winter dies, the sanity drain might be bigger, whereas someone who died shortly after joining and/or shortly after getting revived would cause a lot less.  That way people of lower skill levels, or people who are just there to troll, wouldn't be quite so... I don't want to say irritating, but... *ahem*  And people of higher skill levels would still have significant motivation to be careful the longer they stayed alive.

 

I dunno, there's probably a lot wrong with that idea, but, you know.  Brainstorming.

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If you think that, then you have no idea what it's like to talk to jerks.

No one should be putting up with someone who doesn't want to work together. I mean it even says it in the title: Don't Starve Together

I do pvp on a regular basis, and only pvp, cause i can't stand survival in vanilla, it's too boring for me after playing so much RoG. "Jerks" that want you dead still take part of the survival category and genre.

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Just play wilderness.
/thread

 

In all seriousness, the scaling sanity sounds interesting. The biggest problem is not a seasoned player dying, but yet another Willow who wanders into enemies at night with her low-vis lighter (as an example).

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Just play wilderness.

/thread

 

In all seriousness, the scaling sanity sounds interesting. The biggest problem is not a seasoned player dying, but yet another Willow who wanders into enemies at night with her low-vis lighter (as an example).

 

And burns up yet another forest, either due to sanity loss or just trying to kill the spiders.

Seriously, despite all the burnt forests I have encountered, i'm thankful for all the dying Willows. In almost any game I do I can find a lighter.

And for some reason, an awful lot of Abigail flowers.

And one server, many a dead Maxwell, mainly in swamps, which is confusing, because I kept finding not only his sword, but his armor as well.

I just don't know how one can die from that unless you are blindly rushing into a mob. He's got the best dang starting gear of the game and 20 sanity plus a minute. I just don't know.

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I like the system for cooperative play. It gives the whole group a stake in other players and dying creates a problem for the whole group. On a server with random people the problem is not the sanity drain but willows or ghosts terrorizing the community. 

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