Are "black health"/booster shot mechanics even a thing that adds a lot to the game? I think they are outdated and discouraging to new players

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

I don't know how to fix a wiki

It's really easy. You just make an account and you can edit the text in the pages.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

I don't have the time nor the will to do that.

Time you obviously have, since you have the time to write in a forum, will I can understand.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

Also seems to me a lost cause if then someone else come to edit what I wrote before.

Yeah, in case your information is wrong, someone will go correct it if they spot it, or if they see a broken link or whatever.

Wiki vandalism is extremely rare and heavily frowned upon, because everyone knows the wiki is the most important and reliable resource for this kind of game, so it almost never happens, so it's not really something worth worrying about.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

I never trust first the wiki.

I mean, that's your problem, the wiki is still more reliable than any and every player in the game.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

In my all experience since the start of Don't Starve, the community here as always been more reliable for me for stats and informations,

Because you don't trust the wiki, otherwise you'd know the wiki is more reliable than the players for this kind of thing... For very obvious reasons. Like the fact that people who actually care about double-checking the info are those maintaining the wiki in the first place.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

e complete opposite when I read a whole page in the wiki for 1 hour, to only discover after that it was all fake or old.

Well, then don't read a page for 1h? The wiki doesn't have pages that take 1h to read, if there are any pages that take more than 5min to read, it would be pages on stuff like Set Pieces, which just have a tremendous amount of information.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

A lot of guides and interesting topics have also been created here on the forum, that goes far more in depth than the wiki.

.A wiki isn't a place for putting guides in, so that's a given. It has basic tips and trivia at most and that's about it.

The wiki is a place for objective information first and foremost, not guides. As in... Information on how Touchstones work, not how to beat Dragonfly... Though there is specific information about how the Enraged Phase work on the wiki, which is something plenty of people get wrong.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

Whaaattt???? The potato cup emote stands for "F U"??????? I thought it was used like a very very special trophy and emote that you give only to few people, by knowing the backstory of the potato cup. Noooooooo I didn't meant that 

Freya explain it also well.

When custom emotes were first added to the forums it was used like that, but for the past year or so it's been used as a downvote button. I believe it's in reference to the slur for developmentally disabled people.

2 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Uhn... No? That's the opposite of what you should be doing. You should be relying on the wiki first and foremost because it's way more trustworthy than any player's personal experience.

Yes, there can be errors in the wiki, but that's why anyone can edit the wiki, so you can fix any mistakes you see. If you find something wrong, you should go and fix it yourself instead of saying that the wiki "can be full of misinformation"

There are a billion pages on the wiki, if it was possible for someone to fact check every single thing on the entire wiki then why haven't you done it? If a wiki is going to be as inaccurate as Don't Starve's is then you should definitely be letting people know that it's sometimes inaccurate. It's not feasible for one person to fix the entire wiki, as demonstrated by you not doing that. 

[FreyaMaluk]

Could we please stay on topic? Thanks 😊 

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Could we please stay on topic? Thanks 😊 

Yes about that, I wanted to add to the recent ideas:

1) Wet goop, as already Jazzy pointed out, is less accessible unironically for multitude of reasons that I will spare for your eyes but logically it is the nearest thing for crafting an item that heals the black heart syndrome, so it makes sense (since Klei takes that in consideration when designing things). Plus it can spawns naturally from catcoons. After we need to specify how many wet goops and what other items needs this hypotetical new item that heals black heart. I'm neutral about the idea.

I want to point out no to @Well-metabout "new players will learn to make a crockpot and experiment with". For some strange reason (although I understand) new people never understand fast wet goop is = failed crockpot. They always think it's a new useless food. They understand it after a lot of playtime (which at that point they know rot and booster shots and this whole argument became useless) or it even happened for special exceptions that after 100 hours I told them "Y-y-you know that wet goop is the result of you failing the crockpot?" and they do a pikachu surprised face. Also also, early on they don't experiment that much with crockpot to begin with, unfortunately. You know what push them to experiment with? If they discover luckily right away the best item ever, the cookbook (I still love Klei for this). Another problem, and you may probably laugh, they don't experiment with the crockpot because they see wet goop in the dedicious forest xD So they think it's an item that spawns there and not something from catcoons. Klei could update the sprite of wet goop with something burnt and leaving the old sprite for catcoons.

2) Berries...like people xD Juicy berries and berries too are the most common food and first resource the game gives you for rotting. Cook them and leave them on the ground (safe from animals) and you will have plenty of rot. Plus new players always tend to have rots from some berries they forgot or didn't managed well. Big no for me and objectively no.

3) Honey alone seems weird but fine if used well with other items, which at that point Klei would balance it as a higher tier then booster shoot and new players should kill bees, which....ehhh. They do, but very very little early on. I don't know about this one.

4) Healing passively hard pass. No. No. No. Again, new players should not dictate how to balance a game. This is a 101 rule when making a videogame and the idea make the game easier, than already it is. It could only work if it is an ability of a character, not something universal.

5) Adding more crockpot recipes to the game, PLEASE NO. It's already too bloated. BUT. BUT. I will not deny a rework to an existing useless cropot dish to heal the black heart! Yeah, that sounds fun and I would be very happy.

6) A surpise indeed, Mike is right. Lightbulbs and flowers too are in abundance literally in early game to rot things. Monster meat also, since new players don't know it is one of the most broken and strong item in the game, they drop it on the ground to rot, if they discover that it hurts you (someone don't lol). The real problem later on for booster shoots is really nitre, especially if you're playing in large groups.

An idea that I came with right now is some kind of rotten stinky plant, rare but not too rare, that you may find during exploration. You pick it up and apply it to yourself to heal a stage of black heart. 

 

Edit: I'm very liking the idea of reworking some existing crokpot recipe as an alternative. I'm drooling in amusement by dreaming me using seriously ratatouille or stuffed eggplant to heal my black heart!!! =0

[Edible Coal]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

5) Adding more crockpot recipes to the game, PLEASE NO. It's already too bloated. BUT. BUT. I will not deny a rework to an existing useless cropot dish to heal the black heart! Yeah, that sounds fun and I would be very happy.

uh add more crockpot recipes to farm crops please

[FreyaMaluk]

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

When custom emotes were first added to the forums it was used like that, but for the past year or so it's been used as a downvote button. I believe it's in reference to the slur for developmentally disabled people.

Not gonna lie. I am pretty sad people have to ruin the good vibes of the potato cup and even make a related thing to a person with a mental disability? Wtf.... that's why we cannot have nice things.... 😒 😕 😑 

Well I hope maybe people stop being a bucket of poop and get it back to it's original glory!

Anyways... back to topic...

Edited June 5, 2025 by FreyaMaluk

[Kaioh]

Honestly I feel like this mechanic is only useful to prevent florid postern abuse and suicide charges against bosses and stuff like that, and to make other forms of revival more lucrative by comparison. I feel like this mechanic, alongside booster shots, is kinda pointless and unnecessary to the point where it's comparable with the old disease mechanics. I would be in favor of removing it frankly

[AliceShiki]

12 hours ago, Cheggf said:

There are a billion pages on the wiki, if it was possible for someone to fact check every single thing on the entire wiki then why haven't you done it? If a wiki is going to be as inaccurate as Don't Starve's is then you should definitely be letting people know that it's sometimes inaccurate. It's not feasible for one person to fix the entire wiki, as demonstrated by you not doing that. 

Because DST's wiki is not inaccurate at all. That's why I don't tell people it's inaccurate... Because it isn't.

... Unless you're looking at the outdated fandom wiki that was abandoned that is. That one is inaccurate because it was abandoned, and the only reason it still exists is because Fandom doesn't let people delete wikis.

Anyways, I added small clarifications on wiki pages that could use small clarifications, and fixed some links that were sending people to pages that were moved, because those small thingies could help people out, and were things I actually saw... Because yeah, one person doesn't need to fix the entire wiki, but luckily enough, the wiki is already accurate, so you don't need to fix it.

But claiming that the wiki is inaccurate without actually pointing to inaccurate pages (because you surely know at least one inaccurate page, right? Since you need something to back up the claim of the wiki being inaccurate), or better yet, actually fixing those pages, is just disingenuous arguing.

Anyways, I'll drop it since OP asked to. But I felt like I had to at least respond to this one, because I find it absurd when people claim the wiki is inaccurate yet not only do they not know a single inaccurate page, but also don't actually fix the inaccuracies in case they actually know one, and instead they just go and spread misinformation on a forum about the wiki being inaccurate.

[Bumber64]

17 hours ago, Milordo said:

Okay, first and first, the don't starve wiki should not be something that you rely as a base for informations and discussions. It can be full of disinformations and should not be trusted for things as particular as this. You should rely more on the community and people with stats and experience

As if some rando on the forums wouldn't spread disinfo. You don't have more credibility than the wiki, sorry.

If you don't know how long it takes, then your claim is difficult to test. Occam's Razor: You swapped and forgot. As, I said, I looked at the code myself, so I trust that more than anything.

You may be correct on multiple touch stones, but that's not any more reliable than grave digging for LGA. You can't move them, and my world only has 1 on the surface (100% explored). They're terrible rez options, and saying 8 friends didn't use them doesn't say anything of value on the topic.

17 hours ago, Milordo said:

Then as a fertilizer, what are we talking about precisely? Fertilizing berries and grass? Or reap what you sow plants?

Grass, bananas, and Wormwood crafts. (People do pre-fertilize RWYS plants and let them grow without any tending. The good crops are both manure, though.)

Edited June 5, 2025 by Bumber64

[Milordo]

51 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

As if some rando on the forums wouldn't spread disinfo. You don't have more credibility than the wiki, sorry.

As, I said, I looked at the code myself, so I trust that more than anything.

You may be correct on multiple touch stones, but that's not any more reliable than grave digging for LGA. You can't move them, and my world only gave me 1 on the surface (100% explored).

Bananas and Wormwood crafts. (People pre-fertilize RWYS plants and let them grow without any tending required. The good crops are both manure, though.)

Ugh. This is getting tiring as I'm talking to a wall, so I'll keep it short. Yes, correct, randoms can spread disinfo too, which is what you did unintentionally before. However I personally will trust more the forums due to my experience and since it should, emphasis on should, have players that have played a lot the game. No, I'm 100% correct on touch stones.

Spoiler

It's RNG. Now tell me that the game or the code lies and this will be peak.

Life giving amulets from graves? What are you talking about. Read. I never spoke about touch stones reliability. I was just correcting you. As for the fertilizer then it's a 50/50. Conclusion again, 8 rots is fine, no need to lower than this.

Edited June 5, 2025 by Milordo

[BrixGoBrrr]

11 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Anyways... back to topic...

What do you think of the Booster Shots having more purposes?
Like being able to use a Booster Shot on a Telltale Heart - what useful effect might a Boosted Telltale Heart have? maybe you revive with better stats when using a Boosted Heart, and/or it removes the max health penalty for that heart? (hauntable heart would also be rad!)
Or using a Booster Shot when your max health capacity isn't damaged, could give a "boost" of some sort? 

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, BrixGoBrrr said:

What do you think of the Booster Shots having more purposes?
Like being able to use a Booster Shot on a Telltale Heart - what useful effect might a Boosted Telltale Heart have? maybe you revive with better stats when using a Boosted Heart, and/or it removes the max health penalty for that heart? (hauntable heart would also be rad!)
Or using a Booster Shot when your max health capacity isn't damaged, could give a "boost" of some sort? 

Ohhh that's a very interesting idea. I don't really think it aliviates the rot issue for new people that I discussed in OP before but it sounds like a fun concept to add layers to the booster shots. They could be called "infused". 

[Spirit Glow]

I think you make a really valid point honestly. In my experience seeing new players learn the game, the black health doesn't actually "teach" anything it only serves to make dying more punishing by making it easier to die again. I don't see the value in this personally and if anything I've actually seen it be a point of frustration for newer players. 

I can see the point of it being a deterrent for making sure people don't abuse stats. Maybe putting the penalty on a timer could be a compromise, idk just an idea. I do also like the idea of making the booster shot itself have more uses too. But yeah as for the max health penalty as it is now, it's not a very fun or interesting mechanic in my opinion. 

 

[00petar00]

Booster shots are there to make new players quit, somewhat experienced players can make as many life giving amulets as they need.

On 6/5/2025 at 4:29 AM, Evelo said:

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not because I still have no idea what the potato cup emote stands for. It's been used as both endearment and an "F U" so I have no idea what this is. Doesn't help I have always struggled with communication in general. Thanks autism. (recently diagnosed if anyone cares.)

After confused emote was removed we had to choose another one, that will be the case as long as at least 2 emotes exist.

I did use potato cup once or twice when taking a shot and agreeing with a post in the past but not anymore.

I still don't understand why confused emote was removed, isn't it better for players not to reply and argue when they disagree with something and can just react with emote?

On 6/5/2025 at 5:03 AM, FreyaMaluk said:

It means something super awesome, but considering the toxicity of some players here I wouldn't blame you to be confused. It's one of the rarest trinkets to obtain and gives a lot of gold when you trade it so it means you are or have said something unique and precious.

It isn't toxic to have a dislike button, maybe the emote itself makes it toxic but that's because we don't have exclusive dislike emote as we do with like.

On 6/5/2025 at 6:27 AM, FluffyBun said:

Booster shots are one of the worst-balanced features in the game.

It's specifically designed to be quite manageable at 1-2, but become prohibitively expensive by the 3rd. This is because rot is just an absolute pain to get.

Making little spore traps in the caves that rots your food would basically fix that, and also simultaneously teach players to utilize what is harmful for their own benefit.

The last few replies before this one you were blaming experienced player for not teaching new player better but now you are saying that booster shots are badly balanced? I don't understand whether you are for changes or defending booster shots.

Stone fruit bushes can produce a lot of rot and are obtainable in first autumn. The problem is that new players can't get them and they are the only ones dying for it to matter.

On 6/5/2025 at 6:53 AM, Milordo said:

Whaaattt???? The potato cup emote stands for "F U"??????? I thought it was used like a very very special trophy and emote that you give only to few people, by knowing the backstory of the potato cup. Noooooooo I didn't meant that 

I have used it when logic doesn't follow, when someone is really rude or as a dislike button.

[FluffyBun]

59 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The last few replies before this one you were blaming experienced player for not teaching new player better but now you are saying that booster shots are badly balanced? I don't understand whether you are for changes or defending booster shots.

The booster shot mechanic is somewhat good for like 2 new players, or 1 new 1 experienced player, but it falls flat when you have, say, 1 semi new 1 new or some other thing.

Like my opinion on DST's empty world, booster shots are a good concept, they does make what Klei wants the player to do, but they don't do it enough.

Requiring boosters should push the player to do things, not to sit around waiting for rot to rot. That little black bar on your HP should basically kick the player out to make him do things. Players should also know roughly how much HP visible players have, maybe by inspecting them (no numbers, only the heart graphic)

I defend the black bar. I defend the existence of Booster Shots as an item. However, like Rifts, Booster Shots need more stuff supporting them. I personally don't even use them earlygame, instead opting for letting my health have the ugly black bar even if I die, and just work towards repairing the moon portal or something instead. My 35 health is worth literally less than the utility 10 rot can bring you (including fertilizing stone fruit bushes, because that produces....rot)

Edited June 6, 2025 by FluffyBun

[00petar00]

5 minutes ago, FluffyBun said:

Requiring boosters should push the player to do things, not to sit around waiting for rot to rot. That little black bar on your HP should basically kick the player out to make him do things. Players should also know roughly how much HP visible players have, maybe by inspecting them.

New players are punished for exploring and rewarded for sitting at base and waiting for food to rot so they can recover their HP. When players have trouble surviving without any health penalties, how does it encourage them to go out of their way to die some more? They will need to craft even more booster shots so it is very demoralizing.

Experienced players are encouraged by game mechanics to not help new players on pubs because of the cost in resources and time. Booster shots are a big part of this resource sink and even when new players are left alone in a base they are encouraged to stay and farm or eat up food by the mechanics and experienced players also because death is too punishing and players need to be around to revive them.

Learning DST isn't easy and teaching someone to be self sufficient and survive every season can take days, experienced players may want play the game too and you literally can't do what you want when you are helping someone learn which can take all your time.

[FluffyBun]

15 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

New players are punished for exploring and rewarded for sitting at base and waiting for food to rot so they can recover their HP. When players have trouble surviving without any health penalties, how does it encourage them to go out of their way to die some more? They will need to craft even more booster shots so it is very demoralizing.

First, you make a little poison cloud that makes things rot very fast.

Then, you spawn a bunch of rot around it.

That rot cloud is basically able to turn up to 10 food into rot, taking 20 days to recharge (perfect)

When a player dies, he will think "let's use this poison cloud to speed it up!"

After the cloud is used, the player will think "okay, let's find more poison clouds", and these poison clouds will be further and further away.

You can even put some in the Caves, and increase their density all the way up to Toadstool's spawning area - fixing the problem of Toadstool being hard to find at the same time.

For bees, the very first loading screen tip should be "You don't need to click enemies to attack them. Simply press the "F" key to attack the nearest aggressive mob."

Edited June 6, 2025 by FluffyBun

[Frosty_Mentos]

I think the design of blackhealth fits more to lategame than early. Speaking generally on this, that we didn't need the ocean to make us lose max HP cause that was just silly. I think there should be nightmare/brightmare enemies or toxic specifics that would reduce your max health in turn to make you more frail.

Since the introduction of a Shadow Maul it basically made health food lose out on value.

Additionally, I think some of the food we eat should at least give back some of the max hp depending on the food tier they are, being another alternative to boosters.

[BrixGoBrrr]

what do y'all think of receiving multiple doses of Booster Shots for one craft? 
i keep thinking how 2 or 4 or even 8 shots for the same cost fits the "Together" theme of the game much much better, than steep scarcity making the shots pretty pointless in many cases, at the time they're needed most 

17 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

They could be called "infused". 

i love thisss! "Infused" makes me think tea with honey, like it's a forget-me-lot and honey based shot  
 .. it all just feels very Don't Starve macabre to me, to picture a survivor running up to a pal's ghost-form, with a pumping Telletale Heart in one hand, and a messy First Aid Kit/case in their other hand, with a variety of colourful and unsettling booster shots spilling out everywhere 
(i figure different shots could use the same art, but different colours where the medical plus + sign is) 

[Mike23Ua]

The thing about DS/DST is that it is intentionally designed to be a Uncompromising Survival game, it’s even listed as I believe #7 on the top RogueLite games of all time, these games by their very core design nature: Are intended to be difficult, and Dying in this specfic genre of game: means either a complete start over (solo DS) or significant loss (DST)

DST doesn’t immediately erase your world when you die without health restoring items, but it does still have a countdown timer to float around as a ghost and find a touchstone etc to respawn at..

Klei can maybe make the booster shots have 2-3 uses for their cost, but completely removing the blacked out health core would be the wrong thing to do.

And maybe I’m being a bit biased, but if people are playing game franchises and genres that are intentionally meant to have perma-death (or punishing/significant loss) when it isn’t their cup of tea…. Klei shouldn’t try to bend the rules for people this type of gameplay was never meant to appeal towards.

When you think of games with perma-death or significant impactful loss for failure State of Decay 2 would be another example or Spleunky, or Dead Cells etc.. it’s intended to encourage you to “git good & stop dying recklessly”

[FreyaMaluk]

30 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The thing about DS/DST is that it is intentionally designed to be a Uncompromising Survival game, it’s even listed as I believe #7 on the top RogueLite games of all time, these games by their very core design nature: Are intended to be difficult, and Dying in this specfic genre of game: means either a complete start over (solo DS) or significant loss (DST)

DST doesn’t immediately erase your world when you die without health restoring items, but it does still have a countdown timer to float around as a ghost and find a touchstone etc to respawn at..

Klei can maybe make the booster shots have 2-3 uses for their cost, but completely removing the blacked out health core would be the wrong thing to do.

And maybe I’m being a bit biased, but if people are playing game franchises and genres that are intentionally meant to have perma-death (or punishing/significant loss) when it isn’t their cup of tea…. Klei shouldn’t try to bend the rules for people this type of gameplay was never meant to appeal towards.

When you think of games with perma-death or significant impactful loss for failure State of Decay 2 would be another example or Spleunky, or Dead Cells etc.. it’s intended to encourage you to “git good & stop dying recklessly”

I think we have moved from removing to reworking them... that's how the discussion is going so far...

[Cheggf]

21 hours ago, BrixGoBrrr said:

hauntable heart would also be rad!

[Milordo]

2 hours ago, BrixGoBrrr said:

what do y'all think of receiving multiple doses of Booster Shots for one craft? 
i keep thinking how 2 or 4 or even 8 shots for the same cost fits the "Together" theme of the game much much better, than steep scarcity making the shots pretty pointless in many cases, at the time they're needed most 

No. 

8 rots for just 1 is fine. 

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Ahahaahahahah

[Well-met]

people trying to rewrite core mechanics from a time they weren't even playing the game is straight up weird.

[FreyaMaluk]

11 minutes ago, Well-met said:

people trying to rewrite core mechanics from a time they weren't even playing the game is straight up weird.

what do you mean?