Do you like rifts and skill trees?

[Mysterious box]

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because most characters were less complex before a rework that they got changes from so it makes sense that people didn't consider her as boring and not complex enough until more characters became more complex

I call it powercreep

She wasn't boring or bad just powercrept 

[cybers2001]

58 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It lasted long after her refresh though again people didn't start dropping her as "boring" until the back half of the refreshes where powercreep went crazy people enjoyed post refresh willow until she wasn't good enough by comparison.

Even at her prime, she was not stronger than the OG powerhouses. Her damage made her viable, but if you’re picking her over Wolfgang, it’s because you enjoyed the kit.

[gaymime]

i only play two characters right now, neither of whom have skill trees. i also don't use rifts so i can't really answer either of those questions since i would have to have played to know

[Mysterious box]

16 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Even at her prime, she was not stronger than the OG powerhouses. Her damage made her viable, but if you’re picking her over Wolfgang, it’s because you enjoyed the kit.

I would say that's debatable her aoe damage is definitely superior to Wolfgang's and her abilities are definitely superior to the og powerhouses in other aspects like having a free drawf star or infinite panic on most enemies for example.

[arubaro]

I like the idea of rifts but the execution,  for the moment, is quite underwhelming 

I like the concept of personalizing characters via skill trees but the execution is really poor and inconsistent. 

Some have no real personalization but must have perks that should have been part of a refresh, others are intentionally really poor because klei can nerf base character perks to add interesting perks to the trees and there are others who change that much the character that doesnt make sense that mechanics to be exclusively from the skill tree. And also the damn huge power creep of some trees.

[Evelo]

Do I like Skill Trees (Sets): No. I think they need to be extremely low impact and just numerical changes. Locking items and abilities behind these "choices" which can be changed at any time via the Celestial Portal is nonsensical. (To me at least) A skill tree is to promote choice. If the player is free to change their decision whenever they want, there is no choice since they have access to everything when it is needed. Give and Take, Kiss and Curse. Right now it is just give with no take.

Do I like Rifts: Yes. It is something new for post CC and AFW. Granted they aren't done yet and given how long it has been for ANR and RoT to start and finish, it seems we will be waiting a long while before they are done. And when they are done will it be satisfactory? Can't know till it happens. Over all I like the direction the game is going. Having more natural issues (which I hope continues to be expanded upon besides Hail, Brightshade, Boulders, and Acid Rain) makes the uncompromising aspect of the game feel just like that, uncompromising.

[_RG_]

  I love skill trees because they add variety to the gameplay and give new options to characters. I especially liked Winona's upgrade in this regard, after which she became incredibly strong and mobile.
  As for rifts, I would still like to somehow make their appearance easier, since quite a lot of cool content is hidden behind them, and probably many players simply will not see their content

[W0l0l0]

Saying skilltrees are good because they made a character more playable isn't really saying that skilltrees are good. It's saying that buffs are good.

Skilltrees are okayish, but using them to rebalance characters that needed a buff is a bad idea in my opinion.

Like in Woodie's case, people are going to usually stick to the same skills that are essential to keep up with everyone else. Sure, I'd like to have the silly goose ability, but if I don't max out the weremoose it'll be too difficult to justify using at all. And goose becomes nearly useless late game anyways.

It feels like the progression that should take place within the game now takes place outside of the game. For instance, Walter can make cursed rounds for a stronger damage dealer for his slingshot. Instead of Woodie having any craft or way to assist his curse, he just has a skill point that (using Walter as an analogy), makes all his normal rounds into cursed rounds by default. So now day 1 you have the power that is buffed with later game in mind. I don't think it works at all.

Fundamental issues like the Beaver not being able to pick up objects when it's entire purpose is to harvest, the lack of progression with moose, and goose dropping off hard later on are not really addressed.

It's also a little confusing to see some characters with crazy radical skill trees that add so much, and others that do much less, or unfocused things. It's not a game changer, but it probably does raise a few eyeballs when some characters are much worse without skills unlocked when compared to others.

With that being said, they are cute. It's satisfying to unlock abilities.  It's a great way to drip feed us quirks without overwhelming us with them. It gives a nice replacement to the original character unlocking system. It gives Klei more tools to tweak characters with. The shadow and lunar alignments not only give clues to players about the later game, but also provide an interesting insight to the lore if they're unaware.

 

[Milordo]

59 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

Saying skilltrees are good because they made a character more playable isn't really saying that skilltrees are good. It's saying that buffs are good.

Skilltrees are okayish, but using them to rebalance characters that needed a buff is a bad idea in my opinion.

Like in Woodie's case, people are going to usually stick to the same skills that are essential to keep up with everyone else. Sure, I'd like to have the silly goose ability, but if I don't max out the weremoose it'll be too difficult to justify using at all. And goose becomes nearly useless late game anyways.

It feels like the progression that should take place within the game now takes place outside of the game. For instance, Walter can make cursed rounds for a stronger damage dealer for his slingshot. Instead of Woodie having any craft or way to assist his curse, he just has a skill point that (using Walter as an analogy), makes all his normal rounds into cursed rounds by default. So now day 1 you have the power that is buffed with later game in mind. I don't think it works at all.

Fundamental issues like the Beaver not being able to pick up objects when it's entire purpose is to harvest, the lack of progression with moose, and goose dropping off hard later on are not really addressed.

It's also a little confusing to see some characters with crazy radical skill trees that add so much, and others that do much less, or unfocused things. It's not a game changer, but it probably does raise a few eyeballs when some characters are much worse without skills unlocked when compared to others

 

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Thanks also for the Walter example, as it was the "real skill tree" klei was experimenting with, before going all in the worst road, because the marketing team told them so.

[ShadowDuelist]

I love skill trees, but I get that some players don’t like them, or the way they were implemented.
It’s true that in some cases (like Woodie) there really isn’t much choice to play around with, since you have like 1 viable way to play with it and very limited options of changes around it. There is still some fine tuning to be made to some skill trees (Specially Wilson’s).
It’s also true that, even for those characters that have more than one viable choice, there is not much compromise like in most RPGs since you can switch your skill tree around with the portal at any time. But that’s probably more of a celestial portal problem once again, more than the skill trees themselves.

I personally enjoy the buffs and some of them made me re-play the game a lot while making new strategies. I enjoy the creative process of problem solving, and the new perks gave me new cool toys to play with, mostly.

As for the Rifts content, I am liking to learn how to deal with the new challenges, but once you’ve killed the bosses a couple of times, and collected the materials for the weapon/armor/utility you wanted, there doesn’t feel there is much to do with them.

I trust it’s part of the process of a greater end point in the game and I’m still excited about it, even though right now it’s hard to tell what is that gonna be.

[Mysterious box]

12 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I love skill trees, but I get that some players don’t like them, or the way they were implemented.
It’s true that in some cases (like Woodie) there really isn’t much choice to play around with, since you have like 1 viable way to play with it and very limited options of changes around it. There is still some fine tuning to be made to some skill trees (Specially Wilson’s).
It’s also true that, even for those characters that have more than one viable choice, there is not much compromise like in most RPGs since you can switch your skill tree around with the portal at any time. But that’s probably more of a celestial portal problem once again, more than the skill trees themselves.

I personally enjoy the buffs and some of them made me re-play the game a lot while making new strategies. I enjoy the creative process of problem solving, and the new perks gave me new cool toys to play with, mostly.

As for the Rifts content, I am liking to learn how to deal with the new challenges, but once you’ve killed the bosses a couple of times, and collected the materials for the weapon/armor/utility you wanted, there doesn’t feel there is much to do with them.

I trust it’s part of the process of a greater end point in the game and I’m still excited about it, even though right now it’s hard to tell what is that gonna be.

I feel like the biggest issue with skill trees is that it's very clear they were designed as Band-Aids rather than additions to the characters unless that character is already good leading to very inconsistent quality in the skill trees when they could have just fixed the base kits of characters who are struggling first then introduced skill trees as additions on the same level if they wanted to. As while characters who were worse off are getting stronger skill trees they feel like they have far less choice in the process of choosing their skills unlike characters who were already fine before them.

[Milordo]

13 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel like the biggest issue with skill trees is that it's very clear they were designed as Band-Aids rather than additions to the characters unless that character is already good leading to very inconsistent quality in the skill trees when they could have just fixed the base kits of characters who are struggling first then introduced skill trees as additions on the same level if they wanted to. As while characters who were worse off are getting stronger skill trees they feel like they have far less choice in the process of choosing their skills unlike characters who were already fine before them.

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Although, I would be extremely opposed (as we all should) if they would be introduced later as they are now, even after fixing all characters, without any other changes in their core component design.

[zheng sun]

Hello fellow creators, with the addition of new content, Don't Starve Together has become more complex, and it can be really difficult to balance at times. But I think there should be a consensus, which is to make every character unique and playable. For example, if you let a character be a mage, you need to design a unique weapon for him, because most of the original weapons are used for melee combat. If you want a character to fight in close combat, there must be a lot of advantages, either defensive or offensive. If you ask a character to collect resources and build a home, it should have its own characteristics as above. These are better reflected in the recent character updates. So my main suggestions are: 1. In addition to the novice function, Wilson should further strengthen his resource conversion ability. Those who convert resources should not consume so many skill points, so that he can use other novice skills All ordered. 2. The vegetable skill tree should be more clearly divided into combat and construction, and the value may need to be improved. 3. Because Willow needs to hold embers, she is too short of space. She may need an exclusive weapon that can be made after the rift, which combines the functions of a lighter, a fire wand and the embers. etc.

[GenomeSquirrel]

Skill Tress

Yes, they increase the variety of things you can do with your time.

 

Rift content

No, There's a list of content you need to unlock it, and at an item by item level, neither myself nor my fellow pub players get any joy in completing them, and bitterly, with most of the new content being reskinned old content, like a helmet or shovel, there's nothing exciting on the other side of the fence.

 

Remembering that crabby hermit exists actually made me glum ...

 

[Mike23Ua]

After playing last night with a group of players who decided to turn rifts on for day 1 worlds I can say that the challenges of the rift content definitely do not in any way shape or form, justify all the hurdles you need to jump through first to unlock this content the “Intended” Way.

These newbies were dying left and right to Lunar Hail until I showed up and just stood under a freaking tree without any helmets or Armor or anything, just waited for the storm to end and then went on about my day.

I feel a heavy hatred here if I’m being honest, this is meant to be “End Game” Content and I’m negating it by just standing under a normal tree….

For Comparison sake- To Negate Spring Rainfalls you need a Hat, Umbrella and a Tree all combined to stay Dry.

Clear cut, BALANCE ISSUES Klei… when is anyone going to actually start listening to me? 

[arubaro]

20 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

After playing last night with a group of players who decided to turn rifts on for day 1 worlds I can say that the challenges of the rift content definitely do not in any way shape or form, justify all the hurdles you need to jump through first to unlock this content the “Intended” Way.

These newbies were dying left and right to Lunar Hail until I showed up and just stood under a freaking tree without any helmets or Armor or anything, just waited for the storm to end and then went on about my day.

I feel a heavy hatred here if I’m being honest, this is meant to be “End Game” Content and I’m negating it by just standing under a normal tree….

For Comparison sake- To Negate Spring Rainfalls you need a Hat, Umbrella and a Tree all combined to stay Dry.

Clear cut, BALANCE ISSUES Klei… when is anyone going to actually start listening to me? 

Standing under a tree and doing nothing for minutes, the ultimate experience 

I think that is already punishing, i could agree if you complained about how easily you can counter it with umbralla

[lowercase skye]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

These newbies were dying left and right to Lunar Hail until I showed up and just stood under a freaking tree without any helmets or Armor or anything, just waited for the storm to end and then went on about my day.

I feel a heavy hatred here if I’m being honest, this is meant to be “End Game” Content and I’m negating it by just standing under a normal tree….

Lunar Hail, like every other hazard in the game, is not meant to be obscenely deadly on its own, but rather it's dangerous enough that when mixed with any other threat in the game it BECOMES deadly. How well is "standing under a tree" going to work when you're fleeing from a hound wave? What about fighting a boss like Deerclops or Bearger who will trample that tree down and keep trying to kill you? Are you going to be able to kite 1-2 shadow creatures while standing carefully under a tree? What if you start freezing in winter, will you move from that tree to warm yourself, thus putting yourself out in the open for the hail to rain on you? What about overheating in summer? With rifts toggled on early-game, what if you're hungry and can't afford to stand still starving for a minute and a half?

I could go on, but yeah. Lunar Hail on its own isn't going to kill you, but if you combine it with any of the hundreds of other possible threats in the game and don't have the proper gear to deal with it then it's going to be a pretty dang scary threat.

[Mysterious box]

Personally I'm kind of surprised there isn't a klei official public server with rifts enabled by default considering how heavy future content is going to lean into rifts and how few public server players actually experience them due to time constraints.

[NotGabriel]

I understand that this is a live service game now and we frequent updates are fun, but man it’d be nice to just let the devs cook for a year and get all the skill trees and all the rifts contents in separate huge updates. Not a single one of the rift updates have felt like a complete package. Atleast the skill tree updates feel like they’re delivering a full experience for each character, but it leaves the rest of the cast feeling emptier and we know some unlucky saps are gonna be waiting a real long time for there favorite character to get a skill tree.

I enjoy just about everything Klei delivers but every update lately just feels like it’s building up to the next one

[Milordo]

14 hours ago, NotGabriel said:

I understand that this is a live service game now and we frequent updates are fun, but man it’d be nice to just let the devs cook for a year and get all the skill trees and all the rifts contents in separate huge updates. Not a single one of the rift updates have felt like a complete package. Atleast the skill tree updates feel like they’re delivering a full experience for each character, but it leaves the rest of the cast feeling emptier and we know some unlucky saps are gonna be waiting a real long time for there favorite character to get a skill tree.

I enjoy just about everything Klei delivers but every update lately just feels like it’s building up to the next one

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[Cruvimaster]

On 8/28/2024 at 5:25 PM, Keknutui said:

Recently, after we've had skill trees and rifts in the game for like a year, I was wondering if the players were happy with this decision, and if yes/no, why?

I like that the game is being updated regularly and that's what's happening.

I can understand why some people want 1 update per year to give more time for development, but I wouldn't like that.

Having 1 year without anything new in the game just makes me lose interest in DST.

[Szczuku]

Rifts - good idea, bad execution
Skill trees- terrible idea, terrible execution

[lowercase skye]

On 9/8/2024 at 9:42 PM, NotGabriel said:

I understand that this is a live service game now and we frequent updates are fun, but man it’d be nice to just let the devs cook for a year and get all the skill trees and all the rifts contents in separate huge updates.

The issue I've always had with such an idea is that it stops us from giving any feedback until the vision has already been completed and is less likely to change. When Taking Root first came out, for example, Brightshade Gear couldn't be repaired at all, until we gave feedback about the gear's usefulness and Klei decided to implement repair kits. Imagine though if we DIDN'T get to play Taking Root first, and instead got all of From Beyond at the same time: the entire massive update would be balanced around this lack of repair kits because they never got the proper feedback, and everything would probably feel really bad but be FAR harder to change since it's a whole big complete thing they'd have to rebalance, rather than a singular beginning update. And heck, imagine the mess of feedback and fighting over which character matters more and deserves adjustments if we got all the skill trees at once. It just doesn't feel worth the trade-off, I'd like to be able to provide feedback on smaller updates and help shape the future ones.

[Mike23Ua]

On 9/8/2024 at 8:42 PM, NotGabriel said:

I understand that this is a live service game now and we frequent updates are fun, but man it’d be nice to just let the devs cook for a year and get all the skill trees and all the rifts contents in separate huge updates. Not a single one of the rift updates have felt like a complete package. Atleast the skill tree updates feel like they’re delivering a full experience for each character, but it leaves the rest of the cast feeling emptier and we know some unlucky saps are gonna be waiting a real long time for there favorite character to get a skill tree.

I enjoy just about everything Klei delivers but every update lately just feels like it’s building up to the next one

Live service games are dying at an alarmingly fast rate of speed, don’t believe me? Google concord, you probably have never heard of it because two weeks after it’s launch it’s been discontinued due to not getting a high enough player fanbase.

Why am I singling out this game? Because this was supposed to be PlayStation 5’s big premiere grand live service game, and it got abandoned laughably & embarrassingly quickly.

I would HATE to see the Dont Starve franchise trying to be a live service game, because if playstations planned exclusive juggernaut flopped, if triple A Super hero games like Marvels Avengers and Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League crash and burn, A small indie company like Klei stands absolutely no chance in the deepest darkest pits of hades of ever surviving.

So I’d prefer less updates, more cohesion between the updates when we finally get ‘em.

 

[NPCMaxwell]

On 9/9/2024 at 3:42 AM, NotGabriel said:

I understand that this is a live service game now and we frequent updates are fun, but man it’d be nice to just let the devs cook for a year and get all the skill trees and all the rifts contents in separate huge updates. Not a single one of the rift updates have felt like a complete package. Atleast the skill tree updates feel like they’re delivering a full experience for each character, but it leaves the rest of the cast feeling emptier and we know some unlucky saps are gonna be waiting a real long time for there favorite character to get a skill tree.

I enjoy just about everything Klei delivers but every update lately just feels like it’s building up to the next one

I always prefer longterm distances between update over small-but-regulary ones, as I often feel overwhelmed by often occuring changes in games A LOT! I love to just have my time to play a certain version of the game without feeling rushed instead of getting used to something being added and asking to be 'discovered' constantly. (and more and more lore with what to me feels no "break" in between is exhausting to me up to a point where I ignore the wish of staying up to date with lore-information.)