Mature palmcone trees should drop 2 sprouts

[chaosmonkey]

Palmcone trees are currently gated behind moongleam farming. They are primarily used for decoration, and they shouldn't have such a high cost to acquire. Banana bushes and monkeytails seem perfectly fine to gate behind moongleams due to their high utility.

Moongleam farming is extremely tedious; the game is rewarding people for standing around doing nothing for 30 seconds at a time (30 seconds is the spawn period between gleams). At least by making mature palmcones drop 2 sprouts, this opens up a more interesting gameplay avenue to acquire more palmcone sprouts.

[Captain_Rage]

You can simply wait on the Moon Quay until you get the desired amount. It does not take long.

[chaosmonkey]

1 minute ago, Captain_Rage said:

You can simply wait on the Moon Quay until you get the desired amount. It does not take long.

It takes quite a long time if you want even just a few stacks of sprouts. The point of this post is that standing around and waiting to catch a bug (or for portal puke) is boring gameplay, and there are solutions to that to support megabasers without degrading the experience for survival players.

[landromat]

we don't need to create resource overabundance just to support megabasers. And no, they're not for decoration. They give you much more wood and also scales which you can use as fuel. They're just better trees 

[chaosmonkey]

13 minutes ago, landromat said:

we don't need to create resource overabundance just to support megabasers. And no, they're not for decoration. They give you much more wood and also scales which you can use as fuel. They're just better trees 

If a player only wants the trees for farming wood or for mass producing scales, it's still a fixed cost to go farm 200 gleams so you can have a 10x10 tile farm of 400 palmcone trees. It's still faster to farm moon gleams in that case (13 days of collecting moongleams, and another few days of turning them in) as compared to a few cycles of duping at several days per growth cycle. Because the initial trees can be collected faster through existing means, and because having much more than 400 palmcone trees isn't going to help you farm the wood/scales any faster, it would seem seed duping wouldn't affect that balance. As it stands, the current acquisition mechanism is punishing only for those that wish to decorate with them at a large scale.

[allmeitysk]

27 minutes ago, landromat said:

we don't need to create resource overabundance just to support megabasers. And no, they're not for decoration. They give you much more wood and also scales which you can use as fuel. They're just better trees 

Im sorry what? Are you literally using firepits post-celestial content? Thats crazy  what did you to your crown? Thrown it into the ocean?

28 minutes ago, landromat said:

we don't need to create resource overabundance

With new chests upgrades, its not a problem   you store them idefinitelly. You can even plant them yourself!

 

29 minutes ago, landromat said:

just to support megabasers

why not? Palmcone trees are primarely decorative item. 

29 minutes ago, landromat said:

And no, they're not for decoration

And for what else? Just wood farming? You know one item, can have multiple uses by different players right?

30 minutes ago, landromat said:

They give you much more wood

Where is problem in that in post-celestial content? You will have too many chests to store items in? You will be able to create gazilion boats or what exactly? What is "OP" about having too much wood? Anyone using wood for fire after having crown is crazy. At that point you most likely even have star or mooncaller  

32 minutes ago, landromat said:

They're just better trees 

YES they are, they are visually outstanding content we need better way of obtaining than through the gleems. Its actually high time we get proper wood farming method in DST. I assume you dont expect us to keep chopping trees with axe post-celestial content? Most of the people that play this late worlds, use bearger, skeleton, or maxwell to chop trees faster. Everyone finds a way how to obtain "wood" as fast as possible. 

 

Your points are not valid, they do not take into account that palmcone trees are so late game item, that you have to understand the game. Most of the people that spend all winters farming gleems is purely for palmcone trees to use as decoration... at that point I am overflown with wood anyway and I am just burning it so I dont have to collect it. But I need better way how I can obtain palmcone sprouts to decorate with 

This is what I am doing just now, as this post was created. Farming gleems just so I can get palmcone trees. I get so many banana bushes too, that I dont use, and I dont care, they can stack idefinitely in the chest forever. 

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, chaosmonkey said:

Palmcone trees are currently gated behind moongleam farming. They are primarily used for decoration, and they shouldn't have such a high cost to acquire. Banana bushes and monkeytails seem perfectly fine to gate behind moongleams due to their high utility.

Moongleam farming is extremely tedious; the game is rewarding people for standing around doing nothing for 30 seconds at a time (30 seconds is the spawn period between gleams). At least by making mature palmcones drop 2 sprouts, this opens up a more interesting gameplay avenue to acquire more palmcone sprouts.

1 sprout is enough. You are not meant to be able to quicky mass farm them.

40 minutes ago, allmeitysk said:

Im sorry what? Are you literally using firepits post-celestial content? Thats crazy  what did you to your crown? Thrown it into the ocean?

It is available from spawn.

53 minutes ago, chaosmonkey said:

it's still a fixed cost to go farm 200 gleams so you can have a 10x10 tile farm of 400 palmcone trees.

They drop 1 sprout when fully grown. They are not meant to be supplements of wood farming. They dont spawn treeguard so it would be really op.

Edited March 11 by Jakepeng99

[chaosmonkey]

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

1 sprout is enough

Clearly not everyone agrees with that

14 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You are not meant to be able to quicky mass farm them.

That's how it's designed today, but as we've discussed so far, there doesn't appear to be a balance reason for that.

15 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They drop 1 sprout when fully grown. They are not meant to be supplements of wood farming.

If they weren't supposed to be used for wood farming, why do they give 5 logs which is more than other trees?

16 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They dont spawn treeguard so it would be really op.

Some might consider that a downside. Living logs can be hard to come by!

[kuroite]

Im not necessarly against the idea but there is always a middle ground of them dropping 1.5 sprouts or something like that.

[Yuuko]

Since the mechanism is already in place to produce these, and the design is obviously to have the trees not naturally propogate, why isn't this a suggestion to improve moongleam spawn rates or conversion?

Edited March 11 by Yuuko

[chaosmonkey]

4 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Since the mechanism is already in place to produce these, and the design is obviously to have the trees not naturally propogate, why isn't this a suggestion to improve moongleam spawn rates or conversion?

That's certainly a valid approach. My rationale for not simply adjusting moongleam spawn rate was that banana bushes and monkeytails provide a lot more utility than palmcone trees, and the moongleam situation seemed balanced for those resources. I guess there's another approach here which might be increasing the number of sprouts per gleam.

My other thought was that moongleam catching is extremely tedious and not very fun, and decoupling resources we want a lot of vs those we want a few of from that farming would make for better gameplay overall.

[IAmAFurrz]

1 hour ago, chaosmonkey said:

Clearly not everyone agrees with that

You're the only person i've heard complain about this issue really

1 hour ago, chaosmonkey said:

That's how it's designed today, but as we've discussed so far, there doesn't appear to be a balance reason for that.

Not every option has to be a straight upgrade from the basic trees. And palmcone already gives exclusive resource to docks so thats the balance reason

 

1 hour ago, chaosmonkey said:

If they weren't supposed to be used for wood farming, why do they give 5 logs which is more than other trees?

There's not just 1 reasoning for it to be intended for 1 thing.

 

1 hour ago, chaosmonkey said:

Some might consider that a downside. Living logs can be hard to come by!

The lunar grotto exists, and even then you can also run into a pine forest when trees are in stage 4 (1 chop stage) and chop those trees to have the same % chance compared to normal trees for treeguards. There are also additional Totally Normal Trees that spawn in day 1

[chaosmonkey]

31 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

Not every option has to be a straight upgrade from the basic trees. And palmcone already gives exclusive resource to docks so thats the balance reason

But that's not a balance reason because you can already farm an insane amount of palmcone scales even without the duping of seeds.

32 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

You're the only person i've heard complain about this issue really

Feels a bit confirmation biasy, but regardless that doesn't invalidate the suggestion just because you haven't run into this or other players that have.

[arubaro]

Palmcone scales and 1 extra log clearly undermines  the uncompromising 

My mind just melt

[landromat]

8 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

If a player only wants the trees for farming wood or for mass producing scales, it's still a fixed cost to go farm 200 gleams so you can have a 10x10 tile farm of 400 palmcone trees. It's still faster to farm moon gleams in that case (13 days of collecting moongleams, and another few days of turning them in) as compared to a few cycles of duping at several days per growth cycle. Because the initial trees can be collected faster through existing means, and because having much more than 400 palmcone trees isn't going to help you farm the wood/scales any faster, it would seem seed duping wouldn't affect that balance. As it stands, the current acquisition mechanism is punishing only for those that wish to decorate with them at a large scale.

At this point you can Just cheat. Save yourself some time

[landromat]

6 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

But that's not a balance reason because you can already farm an insane amount of palmcone scales even without the duping of seeds.

so go farm it. Your post is just complaining you can't get a lot of trees fast. Yes that's how some game mechanics work. Being megabaser does not make you enitled for special treatment. Just cheat your resources. 

[july401]

It's annoying now that palmcone trees drop 0 sprouts if not mature.

I support your idea.

[Green Crystal]

I would trade palmcone dropping 2 sprouts in mature state for it dropping 1 more log

[mykenception]

12 hours ago, allmeitysk said:

they do not take into account that palmcone trees are so late game item

what? no they're not

and if you're maximizing gains you can just go maxwell with wicker's silverculture book

plus palmaconetrees have zero chances to spawn treeguards on you and sometimes when you're mass farming wood you just don't wanna deal with em. 

 

Edited March 12 by mykenception

[Szczuku]

No they shouldn't, the entire point is that you have to visit the island if you want more moon quay resources

[Jakepeng99]

18 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

If they weren't supposed to be used for wood farming, why do they give 5 logs which is more than other trees?

I mean they are not meant to be replacements.

18 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

Clearly not everyone agrees with that

Well most do. 

18 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

Some might consider that a downside. Living logs can be hard to come by!

Early game they are. Lategame you have too much living logs.

[arubaro]

I dont care to farm them by visiting the moonquay island, i actually enjoy visiting it and fighting the hordes of monkeys and the feeling of conquering a land that it brings, but the "reasoning" behind some arguments against the op's idea are hilarious.

Who in their right mind will ever visit the island to get a new tree in a short run for farming good and get fuel (whi the hell uses fuel and for what outside of new players that wont survive the trip to the island??)? This must be the dumbest statement ever made

What i see is childish people going agaisnt for the sake of going against without a good or a proper thought process behind. Simply hate, in short words

Edited March 12 by arubaro

[Yuuko]

23 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

That's certainly a valid approach. My rationale for not simply adjusting moongleam spawn rate was that banana bushes and monkeytails provide a lot more utility than palmcone trees, and the moongleam situation seemed balanced for those resources. I guess there's another approach here which might be increasing the number of sprouts per gleam.

My other thought was that moongleam catching is extremely tedious and not very fun, and decoupling resources we want a lot of vs those we want a few of from that farming would make for better gameplay overall.

Once you unlock moon gleams no MQ resources are particularly powerful.

They all provide a lot of utility early game.  Building docks early game can mean a LOT going into mid and late game.  Depending on your character selection, probably more than reeds or bananas b/c it would help save on time and time is character agnostic.  Compare 4 boards, 1 cut stone, and 2 bee stingers per 4 dock placements against 4 boards per boat.  Its a good discount for making the world a smaller place.

If you rushed to MQ and even got just 2-4 trees it would not take you long to have large groves of these if they had natural propagation like other trees.  I think the way Klei designed MQ resource growth with game progression is pretty clever.  Unfortunately palmcones are a bit unique b/c the threshold for "enough" can be quite high compared to the others.  The concern isn't that someone will "have OP bananas," its that they'd need an infinite chest slot to store the excess bushes...

I think conversion is the right place to hit for this.  If the portal spit out a second palmcone per moongleam it would double the amount of trees gained without effecting other resources or the balance of MQ resource availability through early, mid, and late game.

* I feel the threshold for "enough" of these is quite high because 1) dock kits are very useful, but also 2) they do provide +25% logs per plant and 3) they do not spawn tree guards.  These are both great luxury perks for late game.  I also feel these perks justify gating them with world progression /moongleams as Klei has done.  These are just as "OP" as bananas and reeds, which is to say they should be more scarce early to mid game but no reason to be stingy late late.

Edited March 12 by Yuuko

[chaosmonkey]

Maybe we can have a way to exchange other portal resources for more trees

[chirsg]

A sprout should drop from palmcone trees at every stage. It's really too stressful for no reason to farm up a lot of palmcone trees for any reason.