Why I think boss fights are “Bad”

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Also wolfgang should summon followers for free, farm giant veggies without effort, call the rain or trap bosses with his shadow muscles...

Is unfair that characters have different advantage and is totally logical to reduce at half all bosses health because a character has x2 damage... later they should reduce it by 4 times because wolfgang x2 damage make these nerfed bosses last less and later they should reduce their health by 8 times because wolfgang cuts 25%hp bosses by half...ad infinitum

No, but if they wanted to further nerf Wolfgang they could do it in a way that is unique to him.. such as being a big strong boi but he enjoys to savor the taste of his food so he takes longer chewing- Which would significantly Nerf the Periogi for him, without you know… lowering his 2x damage.

Actually I’m pretty sure the “Savor the Flavor” perk will more likely go to Warly now that I think about it..

Anyway please stay on topic of boss fights <3

[prettynuggets]

36 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

My issue though is that if we can already cut boss fights down to 50, or 25% with just two Wolfgang players, why can’t we get some actual world Gen options to cut boss fights down through settings?

smh so all this time with 12 pages going u just want "easier" bosses to be toggled in setting.
i tho u are one of those survivalist try hard that claim megabaser want relaxed mode. 
that the game wasnt punishing enough, wasnt uncompromising enough. 
but complain for things that most of forumite might have beaten hundred to thousand of times, thats why its laughable. and they didnt agree with anything you say.
your thread is not bad just not in the right place, where mainly people here already beaten the game multiple times. if u made it in some site with tons of new player that have not yet kill the boss yet, u might get supporter, but not here. 

even new player i encountered, said bosses is not as scary as it looks once its beaten. 

 

 

Edited January 18 by prettynuggets

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

smh so all this time with 12 pages going u just want "easier" bosses to be toggled in setting.
i tho u are one of those survivalist try hard that claim megabaser want relaxed mode. 
that the game wasnt punishing enough, wasnt uncompromising enough. 
but complain for things that most of forumite might have beaten hundred to thousand of times, thats why its laughable. and they didnt agree with anything you say.
your thread is not bad just not in the right place, where mainly people here already beaten the game multiple times. if u made it in some site with tons of new player u might get supporter, but not here. 

even new player i encountered, said bosses is not as scary as it looks once its beaten. 

 

 

It’s not about how “challenging” it is, it’s about the time investment required in actually playing and enjoying the game.

See I got this one friend who out of an entire 24 hour day, can only play for 1-2 hours, and as I’m pretty sure YOU are aware- DST in its current form is a Long-Term investment type of game..

We can’t just spawn into a world and be ready to go slap up Dragonfly within 30 minutes, (maybe you can if you all pick Wolfgang but otherwise-) naw that can take literal hours of set up and preparation time.

Hours my friend doesn’t have to play, and sure I can play alone while he is offline and I can go around gathering everything we need to go enjoy the fight with- (& currently I do..) but what about people who just don’t have that time to invest into the game?

What about Xbox players who still to this very day, can only join player hosted worlds that only last for as long as the host of the world is playing DST?

You have to effectively become a speed runner/boss rusher to enjoy content that should just be adjustable so players of varying skill levels, playing preferences or time constraints- can enjoy the content the game has to offer.

Theres a REASON why you can toggle on Lunar & Shadow Rifts without doing the literal hours worth of grinding to reach that point- and that’s because some players may not have the skill or time to dedicate to getting to the new content.

If my friend wants to fight Antlion, but it’s Autumn Day 2.. I can exit the game, change seasons, Reboot us back up into summer and Boom there it is. otherwise: You’ll be waiting 60 game days till you get to experience this content.

My “Skill Issue” Aside: Game content needs to be more accessible to a broader audience.

And as long as that doesn’t effect YOU or the current way Your enjoying your game, why should that bother you?

[grm9]

15 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

We can’t just spawn into a world and be ready to go slap up Dragonfly within 30 minutes, (maybe you can if you all pick Wolfgang but otherwise-)

you can do this as wes when playing solo

Edited January 19 by grm9

[prettynuggets]

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s not about how “challenging” it is, it’s about the time investment required in actually playing and enjoying the game.

the thing i always said to player that give up the game that fighting is hard is. try pick up wigfrid.
her perks of damage reduction and many combat tools with cheap ingredients. try fighting it and find way to kite as much as possible until u find the "i get it now how this boss works" things.
picking wigfrid will make you experience it way easier. but keep in mind u have to learn how to fight it not only have goal to beat it by tanking as much damage as u can.

once u learn how to dodge things prep armor and healing us almost unecessary. even with any other character.
klaus is one of boss i almost not care about preparation show me how u havent learnt any of klaus attack pattern yet. 

 

  

22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And as long as that doesn’t effect YOU or the current way Your enjoying your game, why should that bother you?

this kinda rich from people who 24/7 pointing finger to megabaser thinking that them ruining things, while its didnt affect them much (cus he barely reach end game) 

Edited January 18 by prettynuggets

[cybers2001]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

See I got this one friend who out of an entire 24 hour day, can only play for 1-2 hours, and as I’m pretty sure YOU are aware- DST in its current form is a Long-Term investment type of game..

We can’t just spawn into a world and be ready to go slap up Dragonfly within 30 minutes, (maybe you can if you all pick Wolfgang but otherwise-) naw that can take literal hours of set up and preparation time.

Hours my friend doesn’t have to play, and sure I can play alone while he is offline and I can go around gathering everything we need to go enjoy the fight with- (& currently I do..) but what about people who just don’t have that time to invest into the game?

I have a world where I only play with friends. We log maybe 3-5 hours per week on average. So far we beat the seasonal bosses, Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Klaus multiple times (even got a krampus sack), Toadstool, Nightmare pig, Eye of Terror, Shadow bosses, Fuel Weaver, and Guardian twice. Sure, a few of those were done solo and some as a group, but the point still stands that you can play at whatever pace you want if you're playing with friends.

[mykenception]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

We can’t just spawn into a world and be ready to go slap up Dragonfly within 30 minutes, (maybe you can if you all pick Wolfgang but otherwise-) naw that can take literal hours of set up and preparation time.

Tho you can definitely spawn in and rush to setup a way to kill Dfly within an hour (that's just 7.5 days at max), DST isn't your "run and gun" game where you can play in quick sessions and achieve everything within that time period. 

And here I thought survival game enthusiast prefer to seep in and take their time from survival games to challenge the harshness of their world. You're expecting to play it like a roguelike platformer where runs are in quick sessions (this isn't Adventure mode nor do we have Maxwell's door in this game)

There's nothing wrong with wanting boss scaling, but coming from a person who thinks the game is too easy and but wants boss health toggles because those are too hard. People are getting mixed signals from you

I also feel like connecting the points "Wolfgang make bosses have 50% less health" and "give health toggles for bosses" are bad ones to go with because players can just use both, and make everything quicker (or maybe that's your whole point all along, to trivialize everything for fast paced gaming without regard for anything)

I feel like you just hate the long term progression of the game, like these most of your points just hover around making everything quick and trivial (even with bosses and the story in general) as well as hating those who thrive in the end game which are megabasers because they contradict your way of making the game easy because they "make everything easy with their base" even tho they prefer much run around always grinding mobs and bosses for the materials needed for their base

Edited January 19 by mykenception

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, mykenception said:

Tho you can definitely spawn in and rush to setup a way to kill Dfly within an hour (that's just 7.5 days at max), DST isn't your "run and gun" game where you can play in quick sessions and achieve everything within that time period. 

And here I thought survival game enthusiast prefer to seep in and take their time from survival games to challenge the harshness of their world. You're expecting to play it like a roguelike platformer where runs are in quick sessions (this isn't Adventure mode nor do we have Maxwell's door in this game)

There's nothing wrong with wanting boss scaling, but coming from a person who thinks the game is too easy and but wants boss health toggles because those are too hard. People are getting mixed signals from you

I also feel like connecting the points "Wolfgang make bosses have 50% less health" and "give health toggles for bosses" are bad ones to go with because players can just use both, and make everything quicker (or maybe that's your whole point all along, to trivialize everything for fast paced gaming without regard for anything)

I feel like you just hate the long term progression of the game, like these most of your points just hover around making everything quick and trivial (even with bosses and the story in general) as well as hating those who thrive in the end game which are megabasers.

How is this so complicated for you? Some parts of the game are more accessible (managing global weather effects, gathering resources, fighting hostile mobs, building big pretty base) other things are significantly less enjoyable: (pearls rpg quest and almost everything about it, raid bosses intended to be fought by a group of 6, boss prep/fight set ups) 

Some things you can do in a matter of minutes of spawning into a world, others… are Long-Term Investments.

 

[prettynuggets]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

are Long-Term Investments.

the game itself cant be beaten in 2 hours. a cycle of world is 9-ish hours long, even you have season on short it wont be under 2 hours.
this game also doesnt need to repeat from 0, you can play in same world and build up those spare two hours into long investment to kill all bosses.
 

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

raid bosses intended to be fought by a group of 6

its intended to, but it doesnt have to, you can solo it just u need learn how to fight properly. 
if you say its need group of six to kill dragonfly u probably want to fight it by pressing attack button till its dead ? better try count ur attack and dodge a bit so u dont inhale all your armor and healing.

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

How is this so complicated for you?

i think you are the one over-complicated things. you are not the only person who play on console and many i know have beaten the game and all the bosses down. 
your reason is only 

• wolfgang is can doing fast fight cus his perks --- people respond "its just make sense cus he damage oriented character) 
• boss have too much HP and with 6 wolfgang it would be a joke.------------even with 6 wes, boss can become a joke. doing boss as duo is a perfect for most of bosses, but six? broooo i never seeing dragonfly stand up he just stunlocked and died. doing its solo that make the fight feel more like a fight tbh (atleast for me). while the boss just perish with more than 3 people. 
• DST is long-term investment game (time wise). well ofc, who do want a complete content of survival sandbox game that can be done all in 2 hours. we keep begging for more contents cus we want to play longer. this is such a garbage reason.

[Antynomity]

Segregation 

[arubaro]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

See I got this one friend who out of an entire 24 hour day, can only play for 1-2 hours, and as I’m pretty sure YOU are aware- DST in its current form is a Long-Term investment type of game..

You talk like people arguing agaisnt your poor argumented claims didnt go to work in split-hour schedule while living alone so we clean and cook by ourselves

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

We can’t just spawn into a world and be ready to go slap up Dragonfly within 30 minutes,

Because this is a survival, sandbox crafting game... i think you dont understand the genre 

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

My “Skill Issue” Aside: Game content needs to be more accessible to a broader audience.

No. Souls games arent, metroidvanias arent, rim world games arent

There is something called niche games that needs their "essence" untouched to appeal to the players that will actually enjoy them

This isn't fornite or a generic AAA game

Quality over grabbing casuals for few minutes...

[Mike23Ua]

Okay so I’m still attempting to fight Klaus, and have horrifyingly discovered that 3 Darkswords aren’t enough to kill him, I ran out of Durability on the swords and was left Weaponless by the end of this fight.. Looks like I’m going to have to craft a 4th before attempting this again.. but that sorta solidifies my point to should a player really NEED to bring 4 Darkswords to a Boss Fight?

And this boss luckily doesn’t regenerate it’s health, and actually will de-Aggro off you to return to his loot stash, giving you plenty of time to heal (you can even effectively sleep on a sleeping bag near him for emergency heals!) 

But… it’s still a long overly drawn out fight requiring FOUR DARKSWORDS…

[Yuuko]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But… it’s still a long overly drawn out fight requiring FOUR DARKSWORDS…

Are your ds 100% before the fight?  How much are you fighting sanity monsters?  Klaus has 10k in first form (148 uses) and 5k in second form (73 uses) so it should be pretty easy to do in 3 ds.  Even with 5 uses for each Krampus you're still at 231 uses.  You should finish with 69 left on the last one.

When I do Klaus with Willow I use Hambat.  Its my go-to for most bosses throughout the game.  The fights are a little longer than with DS, but I don't have to juggle multiple weapons in my inventory which feels better for me.  I'm not as experienced with dark swords so maybe my math is wrong.

Are you using Burning Frenzy?  I know we dump on the skill, but it would give you better damage per use efficiency to extend the life of your dark swords.  You could try that.

[Popian]

35 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And this boss luckily doesn’t regenerate it’s health, and actually will de-Aggro off you to return to his loot stash, giving you plenty of time to heal (you can even effectively sleep on a sleeping bag near him for emergency heals!) 

Klaus does regenerate health while not in combat and wandering around the stash, which may be what that extra Dark Sword durability went towards.

Perhaps you could sleep between phases, (Edit: starts with half health on revive so healing will affect) but it's not a great source of healing otherwise if it won't work in your favor.

Edited January 28 by Popian

[Mike23Ua]

15 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Are your ds 100% before the fight?  How much are you fighting sanity monsters?  Klaus has 10k in first form (148 uses) and 5k in second form (73 uses) so it should be pretty easy to do in 3 ds.  Even with 5 uses for each Krampus you're still at 231 uses.  You should finish with 69 left on the last one.

When I do Klaus with Willow I use Hambat.  Its my go-to for most bosses throughout the game.  The fights are a little longer than with DS, but I don't have to juggle multiple weapons in my inventory which feels better for me.  I'm not as experienced with dark swords so maybe my math is wrong.

Are you using Burning Frenzy?  I know we dump on the skill, but it would give you better damage per use efficiency to extend the life of your dark swords.  You could try that.

Yes all the DS are at 100%, I don’t ever fight insanity monsters because I never let sanity dip low enough for them to spawn, the only thing I DO use the swords on outside of Klaus are the Krampii-

But I’ve noticed that if you use a Panflute on these once, and then move away from them that they drop aggro from you completely and just roam around stealing dropped items on the ground before despawning. So I probably could’ve saved Some sword durability in ignoring these two guys completely..

But no I don’t use Burning Frenzy, it’s casting time is a bit tricky to get used to during a Boss Fight, and has lead to Klaus doing significant damage to my armors for a measly couple seconds damage boost to an enemy that has to be on Fire for the boost to even effect..

I don’t value the skill as worth it personally, and that’s even when combined with Combustion.

Allow me to clarify that I see threads on these forums suggesting things such as being able to give Klaus a trinket to passively obtain his Sack without needing to fight him, and there is even at least one boss in the game the player can passively obtains loots (Antlion) without having to fight the boss at all, so the only reason ANYONE would fight bosses whose loots can be obtained in a more passive way, would be to enjoy the actual gameplay mechanics of the fight itself, right?

So currently my options are: Passively obtain boss loots through gifting the boss/other means (such as ocean fishing), Turning the Boss off in settings completely, OR over preparing to face them with a ton of weapons, healing & armors.

Personally I find this to be annoying, because instead of putting myself through the torture of trying to fight them as they are now, the skill threshold required in enjoying the content could reasonably be lowered- So that more players can actually enjoy interacting with the Content, rather then avoiding it or asking for passive ways to By pass it.

And no I’m not asking for a mighty boss to croak over dead in 3 or 4 hits…

In fact I’ve discovered that something as simple as Brightshade swords (toggled on in world Gen settings) can significantly help in tackling previous bosses and why? Because the swords do just a tiny bit more damage that’s literally all there is to it. But using BS swords without activating Rifts the intended way, is cheating- Even if it DOES make content I usually avoided altogether, a tad bit more enjoyable, it’s still cheating..

Anyways, Later this next week I’m gonna put together a Icey biome using boss abilities like I did earlier for a fiery biome.. I really want to showcase these things here on the forums so that players can see how cool boss effects that are exclusively tied to fighting a boss, is making the rest of the game (general biome exploration) feel lacking in content.

It’s hard to explain that through just words alone & anyone understand what I’m saying so let me attempt to gather all the appropriate screenshots & show it through actual game images later.  <3

[Uedo]

49 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes all the DS are at 100%, I don’t ever fight insanity monsters because I never let sanity dip low enough for them to spawn, the only thing I DO use the swords on outside of Klaus are the Krampii-

But I’ve noticed that if you use a Panflute on these once, and then move away from them that they drop aggro from you completely and just roam around stealing dropped items on the ground before despawning. So I probably could’ve saved Some sword durability in ignoring these two guys completely..

But no I don’t use Burning Frenzy, it’s casting time is a bit tricky to get used to during a Boss Fight, and has lead to Klaus doing significant damage to my armors for a measly couple seconds damage boost to an enemy that has to be on Fire for the boost to even effect..

I don’t value the skill as worth it personally, and that’s even when combined with Combustion.

Allow me to clarify that I see threads on these forums suggesting things such as being able to give Klaus a trinket to passively obtain his Sack without needing to fight him, and there is even at least one boss in the game the player can passively obtains loots (Antlion) without having to fight the boss at all, so the only reason ANYONE would fight bosses whose loots can be obtained in a more passive way, would be to enjoy the actual gameplay mechanics of the fight itself, right?

So currently my options are: Passively obtain boss loots through gifting the boss/other means (such as ocean fishing), Turning the Boss off in settings completely, OR over preparing to face them with a ton of weapons, healing & armors.

Personally I find this to be annoying, because instead of putting myself through the torture of trying to fight them as they are now, the skill threshold required in enjoying the content could reasonably be lowered- So that more players can actually enjoy interacting with the Content, rather then avoiding it or asking for passive ways to By pass it.

And no I’m not asking for a mighty boss to croak over dead in 3 or 4 hits…

In fact I’ve discovered that something as simple as Brightshade swords (toggled on in world Gen settings) can significantly help in tackling previous bosses and why? Because the swords do just a tiny bit more damage that’s literally all there is to it. But using BS swords without activating Rifts the intended way, is cheating- Even if it DOES make content I usually avoided altogether, a tad bit more enjoyable, it’s still cheating..

Anyways, Later this next week I’m gonna put together a Icey biome using boss abilities like I did earlier for a fiery biome.. I really want to showcase these things here on the forums so that players can see how cool boss effects that are exclusively tied to fighting a boss, is making the rest of the game (general biome exploration) feel lacking in content.

It’s hard to explain that through just words alone & anyone understand what I’m saying so let me attempt to gather all the appropriate screenshots & show it through actual game images later.  <3

Hambat.

[grm9]

45 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So that more players can actually enjoy interacting with the Content, rather then avoiding it or asking for passive ways to By pass it

they can also get better and enjoy it more since then they'll feel that they've accomplished something because they spent time learning to kill the boss instead of mindlessly killing it even with a spear and wood armor in 1-2 attempts on easy mode

50 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But using BS swords without activating Rifts the intended way, is cheating

so you want easy mode that you'll need to turn on and you won't mind that but you mind that you need to turn on another thing that makes the game easier

[Reecitz]

I see that Mr. Contradiction is still here.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Allow me to clarify that I see threads on these forums suggesting things such as...

Hmm... we were so close.  Your post before seemed like a genuine question about your interaction in the game, looking for how you could improve - or maybe asking to identify the problem... then we're back to wanting the game to change instead of working to improve our own game play...

I don't mind wanting the game to change - first off because it WILL change.  This game lives on its continual updates, and we all want the best for Klei and DST going forward.

But where you're at now is struggling to deal with fighting big bosses in a game where 1) a good amount of it can be about fighting big bosses and 2) many people already fight all of these big bosses in a lot of different ways without issue.  If this were like beta toad that ditched us after a timer b/c we failed a dps check I could see having such an issue, but by and large most of the bosses are in pretty good shape as they are now.  Meaning - before you suggest "fixing" any of them, its probably best you complete them so you have the best perspective.  DST is foundationally a game of player skill.  Unlike rpgs where you unlock better armor and weapons and might be gated by certain item checks in DST its weighted a lot more on your own ability to manage your inventory, resource your items, understand your timings, etc.  What you're experiencing with the ds durability, sleeping during klaus fight, measuring how much healing / sanity food you bring with you etc is all a reflection of your skill level in the game - and the real question you should be asking is what you could focus on next to improve.

Its okay to not be great at it yet, but when the fight is definitely in the realm of realistic I think its a bit odd to be asking for some kind of nerfs.  This would be like asking for nerfs to Rathian in Monster Hunter b/c you're struggling with that fight while others are out clearing elder dragons.  Balance is good, but the fight is balanced.  You NEED to learn the necessary skills to overcome this fight to skill you up for the ones to come.  This is real game difficulty, not arbitrary stat checks or level grinds.

Anyway it sounds like Popian has your answer here.  I didn't know Klaus healed.  Sounds like if you're taking a nap, he's taking a nap.  I guess the answer is to keep working on the fight so you can keep engaged with him while also keeping your stats up.  I know it can feel like a lot, but as you get better with fights like this it makes fights like afw and toad more approachable.

1 hour ago, Popian said:

Klaus does regenerate health while not in combat and wandering around the stash, which may be what that extra Dark Sword durability went towards.

Perhaps you could sleep between phases, (Edit: starts with half health on revive so healing will affect) but it's not a great source of healing otherwise if it won't work in your favor.

 

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

so the only reason ANYONE would fight bosses whose loots can be obtained in a more passive way, would be to enjoy the actual gameplay mechanics of the fight itself, right?

No. I kill antlion because I'll be spending the whole summer in caves, going back to surface every so often is annoying.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

the skill threshold required in enjoying the content could reasonably be lowered- So that more players can actually enjoy interacting with the Content, rather then avoiding it or asking for passive ways to By pass it.

If you make them easier so "more people can enjoy", it will also make less people enjoy it, because it's too easy for them. Just...get good?

[arubaro]

Complaining about crafting in a crafting game: the topic

[prettynuggets]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

And this boss luckily doesn’t regenerate it’s health, and actually will de-Aggro off you to return to his loot stash, giving you plenty of time to heal (you can even effectively sleep on a sleeping bag near him for emergency heals!) 

But… it’s still a long overly drawn out fight requiring FOUR DARKSWORDS…

this is so wrong. it does heal when it deagro and walk around.
while u do the "emergency heals" he does it too sadly
thats why u cant finish him with 4 darksword.

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, prettynuggets said:

this is so wrong. it does heal when it deagro and walk around.
while u do the "emergency heals" he does it too sadly
thats why u cant finish him with 4 darksword.

Uh huh, and how is anyone playing this game on Xbox who doesn’t have access to Pc admin commands are mods supposed to reasonably be able to know that?

The bosses of DST need changes, if it Regenerates health make it show visible little green health icons prompt up like damage numbers to indicate it is indeed healing itself.

Otherwise you waste 4 Darkswords thinking this guys just got a ridiculously high amount of health.

Also I don’t know if this is the intended way this is meant to work or not: But I’ve noticed that when Klaus activated his Gem Deer AoEs (Both Fire & Ice..) that if you run underneath a tree that it seems to stop the effects faster, but being on Xbox I can’t test this to know for Certain and can only GUESS that running under trees help stop the Hot/Cold Temperature changes- Can you confirm if this is true or not?

[prettynuggets]

43 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

if it Regenerates health make it show visible little green health

well i think that belong in different topic, since the boss isnt bad. just the way game choose not to give any cue bosses going to heal himself.  
well this game about finding out things. now u found out and can fight better. 
 

48 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

run underneath a tree that it seems to stop the effects faster,

im betting this happen with red gem attack. since it make u over heat and staying under tree decrease ur temp. 
wont work with blue gem deer unless the tree on fire. 

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Uh huh, and how is anyone playing this game on Xbox who doesn’t have access to Pc admin commands are mods supposed to reasonably be able to know that?

try killing the boss once with going away from the fight and once without and notice that you had to deal more damage for it to die or assume that you shouldn't leave any fights because most DST bosses disappear or refill hp