Please stop complaining about challenging content, even if it's annoying

[Reiko24]

I have a feeling that if Klei tried adding mechanics to the game that they added a while ago, like wildfires, frog rains or hound waves, the forum would go nuts.

Most of people I see on the forums don't want more challenging content in a game that's supposed to be challenging.

"But the new challenges are annoying!" - Are frog rains annoying? Are hound waves annoying? Yes. That's the point. Something goes not according to your plan, it makes it annoying.

The game is not a building simulator, I feel like a lot of people forgot that. It's an "uncompromising survival game", so "uncompromising survival mechanics" will always be a part of it and WILL be added.

 

As long as it can be prevented, then the challenge is good.

Wildfires? Preventable. Hound waves? Give a warning. Boss? Gives a warning.

I know building is a core part of the game, that's why a lot of those mechanics have warnings or are preventable with enough effort. If the new challenges are preventable, I don't think it's a bad mechanic.

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Reiko24 said:

Most of people I see on the forums don't want more challenging content in a game that's supposed to be challenging.

Those content are not challenging, I'm not challenged by some falling debris from lunar hail, it's just earthquake 2.0, I wouldn't die to earthquakes from day one, why would it be challenging now?

Being annoying is not the issue, the issue is it's 100% annoyance, 0% challenge.

[Mike23Ua]

It’s too late.. 

[arubaro]

imagine wanting to have fun with a videogame

[Dextops]

I don’t think we need a repeat of this convo 

[Reiko24]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

Those content are not challenging, I'm not challenged by some falling debris from lunar hail, it's just earthquake 2.0, I wouldn't die to earthquakes from day one, why would it be challenging now?

Being annoying is not the issue, the issue is it's 100% annoyance, 0% challenge.

I'm not talking about the lunar hail. I'm talking about stuff like brightshades

[BezKa]

Shutting down discussion is bad in most cases. Even just letting people vent or rant about the topic is arguably a good thing. I'll do it now.

I'm so done with the grass gekkos. My gekko farm is almost as old as my world, and it's still not done. There's like 10 pieces of grass that are still to transform and it's been so LONG. + brightshades keep spawning on it. Rude.

[Green Crystal]

2 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I'm so done with the grass gekkos. My gekko farm is almost as old as my world, and it's still not done. There's like 10 pieces of grass that are still to transform and it's been so LONG. + brightshades keep spawning on it. Rude.

What problem do you have with them? Not spawning? Try to dig up one of your grass tuft and plant it back continuously until more gekkos spawn, because digging up grass counts as action that can cause their spawn. Also other gekkos should not be nearby, like in 5 tiles radius iirc.

[BezKa]

1 minute ago, Green Crystal said:

What problem do you have with them? Not spawning? Try to dig up one of your grass tuft and plant it back continuously until more gekkos spawn, because digging up grass counts as action that can cause their spawn. Also other gekkos should not be nearby, like in 5 tiles radius iirc.

I'll try that, thanks!

[Maxil20]

30 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

I'm not talking about the lunar hail. I'm talking about stuff like brightshades

 

2 hours ago, Reiko24 said:

As long as it can be prevented, then the challenge is good.

 

This is quite ironic because brightshades at the moment are one of, if not the most annoying unpreventable mechanic in the entire game and have been this way for the last six months. They spawn at insane speeds (you get ~45 per year!), don’t have any preventive measures other then just not building with the plants at all, are incredibly good at crowd control from being destroyed by 95% of mobs, and specifically target player builds more then anything else.

The worst part about them is how bad these warp specific playstyles of megabses. In my case, where I myself don’t really utilize plant decor, I’m practically unaffected. All of the grass/twigs/farm crops I used to use I simply moved into the caves to avoid the constant influx of brightshades. Most players that did either had to change their playstyle to account for them or just gave up and stopped using decor relating to them at all.

To run the point home, Jazzy, on a community endless server, had to turn off rifts because the amount of brightshades spawned was so harassing that most people didn’t want to spend ~10-15 minutes going through their base to clear all the brightshades to continue working in their base, which would likely get hit with many more brightshade waves while they were building the base during their play session.

They just feel wayyyyyy too overtuned at the moment. It’s one thing to have challenging effects that change the way you play the game (lunar hail/bosses, acid rain, etc.), but it’s another when you need to spend 5 out of 20 days making sure a build doesn’t get infeasted by brightshades during the new lunar rift that spawned. People have been constantly asking for a way to tune/counter the brightshades since their release, and we still don’t have any long term counters other then entirely changing the way you build structures.

[Capybara007]

"even if its annoying" yeah sure  "deal with it" vibes

People that want more challenging mechanics dont actually want more challenge believe it or not, they just want to see mechanics that dont affect them at all and just ruins the playstyle of megabasers which they despise because "the game is umcompromising i dont want players doing things diff than me!"
Lunar hail is an example of how those people dont bother if the mechanic affects their survival or challenges them in any way they just see another threat mechanic and celebrate

and nobody has answered the question of just why cant you not use the "repelent" of the mechanic if you want to have such a caotic world, aka dont use lighning rods if you want your base to get destroyed, it just feels like you want megabasers out of the game at this point which is why "game uncompromising" is not takes seriously here anymore

[BezKa]

42 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I'll try that, thanks!

Oh hey, it worked! And-

...dang it. At least I got to see the infesting animation again I guess.

[Golden Daemon]

The common factor among things that players dislike boils down to one key aspect: players have no control over their occurrence.

Some may argue that there are certain things that players cannot control but still find enjoyable or not particularly annoying, such as seasonal changes and bosses. However, these things have their own limitations, which I will explain below:

Firstly, they are often limited to a specific time period or utilize a shared disaster budget. For example, you won't encounter both Deerclops and Bearger simultaneously, or experience both wetness and wildfires at the same time. Additionally, players can use seasonal-specific items or other tools to prevent or counter these challenges. This ensures that players don't have to wear warm weather , cold weather and rainproof clothes at the same time, as certain items are mutually exclusive for their use case.

Another aspect to consider is the rate of occurrence. While encounters with seasonal bosses can be exciting and challenging events, they are typically limited to once per season. Imagine if a new Deerclops appeared every two days to destroy your base. That would certainly not be as fun and exciting, hmm?

Lastly, Their annoyance level is heavily influenced by how lasting their negative impact on the game feels like. Take, for example, the transformation of grass tuft into grass geckos. Although this is a rare occurrence, it can be highly frustrating because once transformed, the geckos do not revert back to grass tufts. (Also ... remember the disease mechanic?)

 

Annoying content can certainly be made fun if they are tweaked correctly towards the right direction (we got pillars out of cave boulders falling).

[Reiko24]

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

 

This is quite ironic because brightshades at the moment are one of, if not the most annoying unpreventable mechanic in the entire game and have been this way for the last six months. They spawn at insane speeds (you get ~45 per year!), don’t have any preventive measures other then just not building with the plants at all, are incredibly good at crowd control from being destroyed by 95% of mobs, and specifically target player builds more then anything else.

The worst part about them is how bad these warp specific playstyles of megabses. In my case, where I myself don’t really utilize plant decor, I’m practically unaffected. All of the grass/twigs/farm crops I used to use I simply moved into the caves to avoid the constant influx of brightshades. Most players that did either had to change their playstyle to account for them or just gave up and stopped using decor relating to them at all.

To run the point home, Jazzy, on a community endless server, had to turn off rifts because the amount of brightshades spawned was so harassing that most people didn’t want to spend ~10-15 minutes going through their base to clear all the brightshades to continue working in their base, which would likely get hit with many more brightshade waves while they were building the base during their play session.

They just feel wayyyyyy too overtuned at the moment. It’s one thing to have challenging effects that change the way you play the game (lunar hail/bosses, acid rain, etc.), but it’s another when you need to spend 5 out of 20 days making sure a build doesn’t get infeasted by brightshades during the new lunar rift that spawned. People have been constantly asking for a way to tune/counter the brightshades since their release, and we still don’t have any long term counters other then entirely changing the way you build structures.

plant dragonfruit near lava ponds

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

and nobody has answered the question of just why cant you not use the "repelent" of the mechanic if you want to have such a caotic world, aka dont use lighning rods if you want your base to get destroyed, it just feels like you want megabasers out of the game at this point which is why "game uncompromising" is not takes seriously here anymore

i dont understand what youre trying to say

18 minutes ago, Golden Daemon said:

The common factor among things that players dislike boils down to one key aspect: players have no control over their occurrence.

Some may argue that there are certain things that players cannot control but still find enjoyable or not particularly annoying, such as seasonal changes and bosses. However, these things have their own limitations, which I will explain below:

Firstly, they are often limited to a specific time period or utilize a shared disaster budget. For example, you won't encounter both Deerclops and Bearger simultaneously, or experience both wetness and wildfires at the same time. Additionally, players can use seasonal-specific items or other tools to prevent or counter these challenges. This ensures that players don't have to wear warm weather , cold weather and rainproof clothes at the same time, as certain items are mutually exclusive for their use case.

Another aspect to consider is the rate of occurrence. While encounters with seasonal bosses can be exciting and challenging events, they are typically limited to once per season. Imagine if a new Deerclops appeared every two days to destroy your base. That would certainly not be as fun and exciting, hmm?

Lastly, Their annoyance level is heavily influenced by how lasting their negative impact on the game feels like. Take, for example, the transformation of grass tuft into grass geckos. Although this is a rare occurrence, it can be highly frustrating because once transformed, the geckos do not revert back to grass tufts. (Also ... remember the disease mechanic?)

 

Annoying content can certainly be made fun if they are tweaked correctly towards the right direction (we got pillars out of cave boulders falling).

Your comment is great, I think the only one in this post that tried to explain how it is. It's very important insight. We can get more challenging content, if Klei takes care to not overdo it and follow those rules.

[Green Crystal]

12 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

plant dragonfruit near lava ponds

This is player-found workaround to stop the annoyance of constant brightshade infestation. I don't believe this was ever considered an intended way of dealing with them

[Reiko24]

1 minute ago, Green Crystal said:

This is player-found workaround to stop the annoyance of constant brightshade infestation. I don't believe this was ever considered an intended way of dealing with them

In my opinion, player-found workarounds are part of countering the threat. A mechanic for countering something isn't needed if a player can create one themselves and it isn't very hard to do.

[Brago-sama]

Idk about you guys but Dragonfruit around lavapools barely mitigates my base infestation. It's still best to not have any bushes/plants above ground

[Reiko24]

3 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Idk about you guys but Dragonfruit around lavapools barely mitigates my base infestation. It's still best to not have any bushes/plants above ground

weird, it stopped the infestation for me, since all of them died before the others spawned, so the dragonfruit were always available. Did you plant dragonfruit around every single lava pool?
 

[Brago-sama]

9 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

weird, it stopped the infestation for me, since all of them died before the others spawned, so the dragonfruit were always available. Did you plant dragonfruit around every single lava pool?
 

Yup, a solid thick ring around all of them. Sometimes they just ignore em and went for my grass tufts back before i moved em underground

[_zwb]

Just now, Brago-sama said:

Sometimes they just ignore em and went for my grass tufts back before i moved em underground

Brightshade infestation picks target randomly, if replanted plant is available it'll look for a random batch from them, if none is available it'll look for wild plants to infect. That's why planting dragon fruit near lava pool doesn't solve the problem all the time.

[Mysterious box]

You know I'm beginning to think the idea of people prefering different styles of play is just a foreign concept to this community because it feels like no matter what side talks about how they want content to go the assumption always ends with the only reason people would like/dislike x is to spite others, they hate fun, they're stupid, or they're just illogical.

Seriously people we don't exist as a hive mind and that's okay I swear!

[Reiko24]

53 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Brightshade infestation picks target randomly, if replanted plant is available it'll look for a random batch from them, if none is available it'll look for wild plants to infect. That's why planting dragon fruit near lava pool doesn't solve the problem all the time.

It should prioritize farm plants, like dragonfruit, potato, etc. weird that it chose a grass tuft

Edited October 14 by Reiko24

[Theukon-dos]

As someone who probably has more hours in DST playing with Uncompromising Mode than without, and whom has actively been advocating for a boost to DST's difficulty, no. An annoying feature is not the same as a hard feature. And the post-rift content is not hard.

 

Acid Rain, Lunar Hail, and Brightshades are all poorly implemented features. They're shallow, poorly thought out, and are in light with the answer you'd get from a 5 year old if you asked them how to make your game harder.

 

They're not bad because they're hard or because they suck. They're bad because they're just bad ideas.

[Mike23Ua]

36 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You know I'm beginning to think the idea of people prefering different styles of play is just a foreign concept to this community because it feels like no matter what side talks about how they want content to go the assumption always ends with the only reason people would like/dislike x is to spite others, they hate fun, they're stupid, or they're just illogical.

Seriously people we don't exist as a hive mind and that's okay I swear!

It’s Too Late.. I honestly feel like I’m seeing DST become the next Resident Evil- AKA it Follows whatever is the most popular at the time to the point that it goes from Puzzle Survival Horror, to Full Blown Action Movie with Quicktime events, Third person shooter action, car chases & explosions! Ahem: Before the developers finally thought maybe people liked RE for being RE and went back to their roots.

For people to be saying crap like “Go play DS” “DST is it’s own thing now & is not DS” “the game hasn’t been “uncompromising” in a long time..”

Im pretty sure I’m seeing the story of RE happen all over again..

Nah I don’t want want your Base to spontaneously explode, but maybe having things happen in the world that you CANT prevent would be nice..

Kleis Animated short art has ALWAYS showcased a more hostile, more believable world then the actual game I’m playing.. But as a Writer- I want to experience the world & the challenges in Gameplay & get the same feel of the world the developers bring to life in animated shorts. I’ve never.. not one time gone out to collect wood & returned back to discover Pigmen raided my base and ate all my crops.

Ive never done this, because the game “Off-Loads” my base or tries very politely not to spawn stuff into my base.

I sometimes feel like the people telling me to go play DS if I want the challenges of DS seem to forget that DST was originally only intended to be a multiplayer dlc expansion to DS.

[Reiko24]

35 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

As someone who probably has more hours in DST playing with Uncompromising Mode than without, and whom has actively been advocating for a boost to DST's difficulty, no. An annoying feature is not the same as a hard feature. And the post-rift content is not hard.

 

Acid Rain, Lunar Hail, and Brightshades are all poorly implemented features. They're shallow, poorly thought out, and are in light with the answer you'd get from a 5 year old if you asked them how to make your game harder.

 

They're not bad because they're hard or because they suck. They're bad because they're just bad ideas.

Kinda true, they are not THAT bad, but could use some more love.