Types of boss mechanics that should be scaled

[Jakepeng99]

1. Toadstool Mushtrees, they are impossible solo without tons of weather pains, even as Woodie (Excluding tree guard method).

 

[MondayNight]

You can solo it 1st Autumn,  no Weather Pains at all required. Bait it at opposite side of each of the 3 Ponds, on the exterior (related to central hole), while burning them spawned Mushtrees via Torch. Then spank him good when it tries to go back to the interior of them Ponds (and spawn more Mushtrees). Repeat baiting it at next pond's opposite side, etc. Bis process in jumping phase too. That's it. Practice on a personal world and finish rushing it in a pub. Yes, burned Mushtrees leave behind dmg-dealing Spore Clouds. Time events and will go smooth. "Practice makes perfect". Gl!

[Cheggf]

I agree that the mushtrees should scale in playercount. A bit down if you're solo, but also up if there's more people. I think the ideal number should heavily encourage you to bring at least a few weatherpains as solo, but still be doable with some difficulty if you bring nothing.

Bee Queen's grumblebees could scale based on playercount.

Deerclops could gain a shadowy hand attack like he has in Terraria that scales based on playercount.

The amount of larvae dragonfly spawns should scale based on playercount. The current number should be the base at 1 player, or maybe it scales very slightly down at 1p and very slightly up at 2p. I think it would be interesting if they also attacked walls with a weak attack, so that walls would still be cheap cheese that makes the fight really easy, but you have to pay at least a tiny little bit of attention to repairing the walls every once in awhile. 

[Jakepeng99]

3 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

You can solo it 1st Autumn,  no Weather Pains at all required. Bait it at opposite side of each of the 3 Ponds, on the exterior (related to central hole), while burning them spawned Mushtrees via Torch. Then spank him good when it tries to go back to the interior of them Ponds (and spawn more Mushtrees). Repeat baiting it at next pond's opposite side, etc. Bis process in jumping phase too. That's it. Practice on a personal world and finish rushing it in a pub. Yes, burned Mushtrees leave behind dmg-dealing Spore Clouds. Time events and will go smooth. "Practice makes perfect". Gl!

Oh thank you i might try that at some point

Just now, Cheggf said:

I agree that the mushtrees should scale in playercount. A bit down if you're solo, but also up if there's more people. I think the ideal number should heavily encourage you to bring at least a few weatherpains as solo, but still be doable with some difficulty if you bring nothing.

Bee Queen's grumblebees could scale based on playercount.

Deerclops could gain a shadowy hand attack like he has in Terraria that scales based on playercount.

The amount of larvae dragonfly spawns should scale based on playercount. The current number should be the base at 1 player, or maybe it scales very slightly down at 1p and very slightly up at 2p. I think it would be interesting if they also attacked walls with a weak attack, so that walls would still be cheap cheese that makes the fight really easy, but you have to pay at least a tiny little bit of attention to repairing the walls every once in awhile. 

I have a few ideas on how to fix deerclops and some of the mini bosses. I was thinking of making a thread like that. Mini and seasonal Bosses probably should not scale, and as for other bosses i feel like alot of them would need rework, though changing the lavae spawn could work. 

[Ardcrumb]

30 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

You can solo it 1st Autumn,  no Weather Pains at all required. Bait it at opposite side of each of the 3 Ponds, on the exterior (related to central hole), while burning them spawned Mushtrees via Torch. Then spank him good when it tries to go back to the interior of them Ponds (and spawn more Mushtrees). Repeat baiting it at next pond's opposite side, etc. Bis process in jumping phase too. That's it. Practice on a personal world and finish rushing it in a pub. Yes, burned Mushtrees leave behind dmg-dealing Spore Clouds. Time events and will go smooth. "Practice makes perfect". Gl!

I think you have to actually live in the klei servers to get perfect conditions like this. 

[Gashzer]

If bosses get scaled down when fighting solo then so must their drops. Bee queen shouldnt drop the bundling wrap blueprint 100% of the time instead reduce it to 50% if she is scaled down for solo play. Dfly only drops 1 of each gem instead of 1-2 etc... 

However with more players more loot should drop than normal.

[Cheggf]

32 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If bosses get scaled down when fighting solo then so must their drops. Bee queen shouldnt drop the bundling wrap blueprint 100% of the time instead reduce it to 50% if she is scaled down for solo play. Dfly only drops 1 of each gem instead of 1-2 etc... 

However with more players more loot should drop than normal.

Klaus' drops don't scale. 

[goblinball]

29 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If bosses get scaled down when fighting solo then so must their drops. Bee queen shouldnt drop the bundling wrap blueprint 100% of the time instead reduce it to 50% if she is scaled down for solo play. Dfly only drops 1 of each gem instead of 1-2 etc... 

However with more players more loot should drop than normal.

I don’t think scaling boss drops makes much sense

even with boss scaling, a lot of bosses (such as bq and fw) would still be much easier in multiplayer than singleplayer 

and alot of boss drops already arguably scale in multiplayer since sharing then between players gives them alot more value than just 1 player using them (even stuff like the bundle wrap blueprint can be shared in mp servers if the person with the blueprint makes wraps for other players). The scaled furnace in particular is infinitely more useful in public lobbies than it is solo; it helps new players a ton.

[Nogard78]

Crab King claws or their health. Doing him solo(no ice staff cheese) is quite the task. Or make it so that when defeated CK gets demaged a bit.

[cropo]

For Toadstool, if you panflute him while he's doing his tree summoning animation a majority of it continues to play out while it sleeps so you can chop the trees with a glass axe in peace. I never use ice staffs but I assume that works as well.

[MondayNight]

2 hours ago, Ardcrumb said:

I think you have to actually live in the klei servers to get perfect conditions like this. 

Far from it. At most you'll have to deal with some Earthquakes and a Worm attack (consisting of 1-2 Worms - 1st Autumn conditions). Also disable "Distortion", "Screen Shake" and "Lag Compensation". Likewise I use a mod that disables all environmental hue filters (seasonal, ruins, etc), including Insanity. Yes, game will look "barebone" (to me is more beautiful since colors are vibrant, how each entity/object were originally drawn, their unaltered color palette), yet personal performance will be better I reckon. After learning (in a test world) Toad's fight patterns, it's a matter of practice. Adapting afterwards to pubs' latency (in my area best pubs have around 70-100 ping, but I don't shy even from 200-250 ones since good ones are far and few between) is not such a big deal. Still is understandable if people don't like pubs for this reason (and more) - sometimes lag experience can be quite bad, with character "quivering" while moving. "Rubberbanding" can be a (horrid) thing too.

 

Regarding OP's subject, boss scaling mechanics (in numbers and complexity, loot included), I for one would not fancy it in default form. Maybe if it was a special game mode and/or particular setting.

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, goblinball said:

I don’t think scaling boss drops makes much sense

even with boss scaling, a lot of bosses (such as bq and fw) would still be much easier in multiplayer than singleplayer 

and alot of boss drops already arguably scale in multiplayer since sharing then between players gives them alot more value than just 1 player using them (even stuff like the bundle wrap blueprint can be shared in mp servers if the person with the blueprint makes wraps for other players). The scaled furnace in particular is infinitely more useful in public lobbies than it is solo; it helps new players a ton.

If the boss fights are to become easier due to scaling then it makes complete sense to scale down the rewards. I want to see upwards scaling for more players for bigger rewards. Right now any more than 2 players and bosses get wrecked without much effort. So bosses should get harder and scale up in strength with 3+ players. 

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

If bosses get scaled down when fighting solo then so must their drops. Bee queen shouldnt drop the bundling wrap blueprint 100% of the time instead reduce it to 50% if she is scaled down for solo play. Dfly only drops 1 of each gem instead of 1-2 etc... 

However with more players more loot should drop than normal.

Don't.

1 hour ago, cropo said:

For Toadstool, if you panflute him while he's doing his tree summoning animation a majority of it continues to play out while it sleeps so you can chop the trees with a glass axe in peace. I never use ice staffs but I assume that works as well.

His cooldown for mushtrees still happens during sleep or being frozen which is sad, they should make it stop, it would add more strategy.

2 hours ago, Nogard78 said:

Crab King claws or their health. Doing him solo(no ice staff cheese) is quite the task. Or make it so that when defeated CK gets demaged a bit.

They should drastically nerf the claws even in groups to be honest, way too much hp and is the reason the intended crab king fight is seen as bad. It might help crab king alot

[Ohan]

I think scaling certain boss mechanics is a fine idea but toad is definitely possible solo without weather pains with default dmg and work speed. 

Scaling CK claws would improve that fight so much. Ditto for lavaes and dfly. 

[Capybara007]

Every boss fight sucks since they dont have an explicit way of telling the player how to defeat them

Cc, ag and maybe klaus are good examples of good bosses

[Jakepeng99]

8 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Every boss fight sucks since they dont have an explicit way of telling the player how to defeat them

Cc, ag and maybe klaus are good examples of good bosses

Malbatross is good. Nobody bothers to try her out, everyone just thinks the wave phase is her de aggroing and running away, you just need to paddle over to her.

[_zwb]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

you just need to paddle over to her.

How do you do that? Every time I try she just pushes me away, using an anchor negates the effect, but I can't paddle to her either

[Maxil20]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

If bosses get scaled down when fighting solo then so must their drops. Bee queen shouldnt drop the bundling wrap blueprint 100% of the time instead reduce it to 50% if she is scaled down for solo play. Dfly only drops 1 of each gem instead of 1-2 etc... 

Please no. One of my least favorite things about fighting DST bosses is the fact the raid boss drops can be randomized, especially the infamous valuable 1-2 drop many of the bosses have. I already dislike that Toad in particular has a random drop mechanic for the mushlight blueprint, especially because you do consistently get the glowcap blueprint from misery toad, and yet don’t have a guaranteed way to get the mushlight blueprint. It’s a really bothering mechanic, and I imagine making things like the bundle wrap blueprint RNG would only annoy players immensely.

Regarding the post itself, I would like to see mechanics be toned down in terms of the spawn frequency in particular. Fuelweaver is a good example of this. As much as I enjoy the FW fight, it’s mechanics just do not translate well from a vast majority of the playerbase. You need to have precision and timing to kill and sync up both the unseen hands and the minions fuelweaver summons, whole also dealing with the bone cage constantly. Having the mechanics scaled down (like making the bone cage only proc once every 20 seconds compared to 10) would be a nice change. Same could be done with some of Crab King’s spells (especially claws/healing) and bee queens grumble bee spawning.

I also imagine it probably should be a togglable setting, in the event you enjoy the chaos of a multiplayer fight solo (which is a perfectly understandable reason, as I do enjoy trying to strategize how to fight a boss that is meant for multiple players solo).

[Jakepeng99]

47 minutes ago, _zwb said:

How do you do that? Every time I try she just pushes me away, using an anchor negates the effect, but I can't paddle to her either

Use a driftwood paddle, and dodge the waves. Boomerang can make it easier, so can the battle oar which is the 2nd best oar.

[Lardee]

9 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

1. Toadstool Mushtrees, they are impossible solo without tons of weather pains, even as Woodie (Excluding tree guard method).

 

They are very possible to solo without weatherpains, it just requires different strategies, different skill, and different equipment.  Plenty of different methods, just not as straightforward as weatherpains. For example:

 

[Jakepeng99]

6 minutes ago, Lardee said:

They are very possible to solo without weatherpains, it just requires different strategies, different skill, and different equipment.  Plenty of different methods, just not as straightforward as weatherpains. For example:

 

That looks really tough. I have an idea, maybe toadstool can destroy their own trees by walking over them? 

[Lardee]

7 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

That looks really tough. I have an idea, maybe toadstool can destroy their own trees by walking over them? 

It's a raid boss which are suppose to be the hardest challenges in the game.  It would be a huge problem if they weren't really tough to beat without spending time and resources to acquire the most optimal equipment for the fight.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Every boss fight sucks since they dont have an explicit way of telling the player how to defeat them

Cc, ag and maybe klaus are good examples of good bosses

what do you mean by this

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Lardee said:

It's a raid boss which are suppose to be the hardest challenges in the game.  It would be a huge problem if they weren't really tough to beat without spending time and resources to acquire the most optimal equipment for the fight.

I mean ARE they supposed to be the toughest challenges in the game though? That may have been TRUE once upon a long time ago when literally the only content you had left to enjoy were those raid bosses, but NOW new content such as character skill perks & new world wide changes are being introduced only AFTER you fight these raid bosses.

Do they really need to be so challenging that they lock players out of experiencing new gameplay content?

In context: I have yet to experience my first Moonstorm or Eye of the Storm update content in its Entirety, that whole update was missed out on by a good bit of players, because only those skilled enough to reach that point could trigger them.

Now I HAVE experienced Moonstorms in multiplayer seasons where people worked together to reach that point, but in Solo…. Hahahahaha I’d be better off snatching the cartridge out the console in a fit of frustration and throwing it at the wall (only 90’s kids will get the reference)

[bloopah]

20 hours ago, Lardee said:

It's a raid boss which are suppose to be the hardest challenges in the game.  It would be a huge problem if they weren't really tough to beat without spending time and resources to acquire the most optimal equipment for the fight.

The most optimal equipment as in cheese methods for not having to deal with the boss part of the... boss.

Yeah, if you have to completely avoid the mechanics of a boss to make the fight less frustrating then I don't like said boss. And the video you showed has the guy fighting Toadstool for 20 minutes. I would rather play the actual game to obtain Weather Pains or even Fire Staffs and do the fight like the rest of the playerbase than wrestle with him as Woodie for 2.5 in-game days.

And I don't really get why a lot of forumites latch onto the mentality that the raid bosses should stay as being pains in the ass unless in a group. If, out of all of the damage sponges in the game, only a single one is worth fighting without a cheese method, and it's the boss at the end of a questline that takes at least a year minimum for the average solo player to complete and even has what the playerbase collectively agrees is the worst boss in Don't Starve history as a dependency, then there definetly needs to be change.