Duck986 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 On 7/11/2023 at 7:41 AM, Arcwell said: He can juggle now! Juggle.mp4 68.41 MB · 0 downloads Forumites: skills are not op! Skills: Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Just now, Duck986 said: Forumites: skills are not op! Skills: He can kill an already easily cheesed boss absolutely bonkers Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoodlemanNed Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 good golly i can not believe crab king can be defeated in such a trivial fashion. Im glad a method this easy has never existed in the past, it would have caused a major negative impact on the game! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Dextops said: He can kill an already easily cheesed boss absolutely bonkers 32 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said: good golly i can not believe crab king can be defeated in such a trivial fashion. Im glad a method this easy has never existed in the past, it would have caused a major negative impact on the game! I mean all jokes aside 221 damage on a ranged weapon that freezes enemies while doing it may just be the slightest bit over tuned no...? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: mean all jokes aside 221 damage on a ranged weapon that freezes enemies while doing it may just be the slightest bit over tuned no...? Idk you have to pick them all up and use multiple bells so id have to see the dps of it and it seems to only really work on stationary bosses which I don’t think it would work on ant lion so it seems like crab king would be the only boss it’d be really viable against also the fact that Wolfgang is already a damage dealing character so he’d probably just be better off using a regular melee weapon on anything not named crab king which already has other cheese methods. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Dextops said: Idk you have to pick them all up and use multiple bells so id have to see the dps of it and it seems to only really work on stationary bosses which I don’t think it would work on ant lion so it seems like crab king would be the only boss it’d be really viable against also the fact that Wolfgang is already a damage dealing character so he’d probably just be better off using a regular melee weapon on anything not named crab king which already has other cheese methods. While this isn't wrong it just feels weird to me having something that deals that kind of damage also freeze foes but maybe I'm just overthinking it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: While this isn't wrong it just feels weird to me having something that deals that kind of damage also freeze foes but maybe I'm just overthinking it. Idk there also comes the downsides. It’s two thulecite per bell iirc and I don’t know if that’s a good trade off because from what I can see you’d need multiple to actually get any good dps on anything. To me it looks like it’d suck against anything that you know… moves. High damage is a norm with a character who’s shtick is high damage so a Wolfgang probably wouldn’t want to use this over just regular gear. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousCube Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said: To throw the dumbbell you have to undo the target locking so no. Which is part of why I've been pushing for a controller rework since it's just not really good right now. Well that sucks... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toroic Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Dextops said: Idk you have to pick them all up and use multiple bells so id have to see the dps of it and it seems to only really work on stationary bosses which I don’t think it would work on ant lion so it seems like crab king would be the only boss it’d be really viable against also the fact that Wolfgang is already a damage dealing character so he’d probably just be better off using a regular melee weapon on anything not named crab king which already has other cheese methods. I think for current state and with the understanding that CK is getting a 30% damage increase because wolf in the clip is shadow aligned, icebells cheesing bosses is probably a CK specific strategy. That said, it’s possible to do the same thing with deerclops (not that you would) but any boss that can be frozen can potentially be stunlocked to death using icebells. Each icebell toss is worth 2 hits with an ice staff and it’s entirely possible that more use cases will be found. At first glance most of Wolf’s skills aren’t hugely impactful but with the way they can stack together or work in specific scenarios there’s clearly been a large buff to his overall kit on par with what woodie got and more than either Wilson or Wormwood. The flat 25 damage boost on planar weapons isn’t a big deal… except for the brightshade staff which goes from 10 base damage, 20 against shadows to 35 base damage, 45 against shadows, 58 with lunar alignment. That projectile can hit 7 times per cast. Wolf absolutely murders inkblights using the brightshade staff because he gets 2.5-3x damage with it, and 3.5x damage on normal targets. With favorable affinity and a planar weapon, he can hit for 143 damage even against a target with planar defense, and it’s not hard to switch affinity. Most wolfgang players will probably start lunar affinity and swap to shadow after AF for the CK and CC fights, effectively having 30% more damage than the live branch against every shadow or lunar boss with only one postern swap. Wolfgang getting ice and firebells that are powerful ranged elemental weapons when most elemental options are weak (who even uses firestaff?) from a single skill point in a skill tree where if you ignore the useless gym skills you can take almost everything else at once is a multipronged buff. Woodie has also been trivializing many boss fights using mass treeguard setups, even when the bug with igniting and extinguishing summoning a treeguard was fixed. My point is that while many skill tree abilities are cool, they have had several unintended consequences leading to significant power increases that we know of in only a week of testing. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Rage Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Mysterious box said: I mean all jokes aside 221 damage on a ranged weapon that freezes enemies while doing it may just be the slightest bit over tuned no...? Brightshade Bombs were added recently as a late-game high-damage (200 damage per bomb) ranged weapon and already get outshone by Wolfgang. This feels wrong, yes. >_> Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 Okay just wow honestly this is probably gonna spark a massive debate when it comes time to touch Walter if they don't reconsider the balance of this because it kind of blows the whole ranged combat balance out of wack. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 Its so freaking over lmao this entire skill tree arc is gonna be such a train wreck Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spino43 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 In all fairness this sucks against other bosses because they have increased freeze resistance, or immune to it, unlike crap king. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakepeng99 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 On 7/12/2023 at 11:44 AM, Cassielu said: So why does poor Walter only have useless Freeze Rounds? Wolfgang is already one of the most powerful character in the game. Give Wolfgang a small boost, and there are 17 characters that need a big boost to maintain balance. And now Wolfgang is getting a huge boost. You only think about icebell's niche, its nice. But it's a character exclusive item, the problem is Wolfgang's niche. It's only practical to jugglr against crab king, i don't see the problem. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toroic Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Spino43 said: In all fairness this sucks against other bosses because they have increased freeze resistance, or immune to it, unlike crap king. I'm not sure why you think this. Icebells cause twice as much freezing as an ice staff, and crab king required 3 icebells, and probably 5 usages of ice staff to freeze. The only bosses that require more to freeze are Dragonfly (8 normally, 12 enraged) and Celestial Champion. Deerclops is frozen by icebells in 2 tosses, equivalent to 4 uses of ice staff along with most other seasonal bosses. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, Toros said: I'm not sure why you think this. Icebells cause twice as much freezing as an ice staff, and crab king required 3 icebells, and probably 5 usages of ice staff to freeze. The only bosses that require more to freeze are Dragonfly (8 normally, 12 enraged) and Celestial Champion. Deerclops is frozen by icebells in 2 tosses, equivalent to 4 uses of ice staff along with most other seasonal bosses. It also costs thulecite and you have to go back and pick them up. It’s an expensive item that is slow to use it’d be pretty bad if it didn’t freeze well Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spino43 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 27 minutes ago, Toros said: I'm not sure why you think this. Icebells cause twice as much freezing as an ice staff, and crab king required 3 icebells, and probably 5 usages of ice staff to freeze. The only bosses that require more to freeze are Dragonfly (8 normally, 12 enraged) and Celestial Champion. Deerclops is frozen by icebells in 2 tosses, equivalent to 4 uses of ice staff along with most other seasonal bosses. I say "other bosses", means I acknowledge that icebell is a good way to cheese Crap King. And when I say increased freeze resistance, I mean bosses need to take more freezing hits to become frozen. Crap King is one of the exceptions because I guess he has his own unique mechanic of freeze resistance via blue gems. It's just not that viable for a majority of bosses (maybe except AG because his freeze resistance is strangely low for a boss). Deerclops (and other seasonal bosses) is frozen easily, yes, but you can also just use a hambat and whack her, using icebells on her is just flexing and not that practical. Icebell is the item that sounds very strong on paper, but in reality it doesn't hold up well. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toroic Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 53 minutes ago, Dextops said: It also costs thulecite and you have to go back and pick them up. It’s an expensive item that is slow to use it’d be pretty bad if it didn’t freeze well 2 Thulecite, 1 blue gem is not really that expensive for an item that can do 170 base damage in a small aoe, at range, and be used repeatedly. For the damage I'd actually compare it favorably to blowdarts and it has an added freezing effect. It's probably not the ideal tool for enemies beyond crab king, but it is still effective and not very expensive generally. 49 minutes ago, Spino43 said: I say "other bosses", means I acknowledge that icebell is a good way to cheese Crap King. And when I say increased freeze resistance, I mean bosses need to take more freezing hits to become frozen. Crap King is one of the exceptions because I guess he has his own unique mechanic of freeze resistance via blue gems. It's just not that viable for a majority of bosses (maybe except AG because his freeze resistance is strangely low for a boss). Deerclops (and other seasonal bosses) is frozen easily, yes, but you can also just use a hambat and whack her, using icebells on her is just flexing and not that practical. Icebell is the item that sounds very strong on paper, but in reality it doesn't hold up well. What I was responding to is that you said that bosses are either immune or have increased freeze resistance, and in most cases that simply isn't true. I agree that CK is the main use case for icebells because that fight is particularly annoying and as the enemy is stationary, easy to hit with gembells. My concern is that from now on, any boss that is difficult to beat using other methods and isn't highly resistant/immune to freezing can be stunlocked 100-0 with gembells. Most current bosses (say, antlion) where you could use this strategy already have other easier methods but would still be vulnerable to the same strategy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Toros said: What I was responding to is that you said that bosses are either immune or have increased freeze resistance, and in most cases that simply isn't true. (I am not arguing anything here, just providing data) These bosses have no freeze resistance/immunity Crab King Celestial Champion Ancient Guardian Malbatross Deerclops Moose/Goose Bearger These bosses have freeze resistance, meaning it takes more hits to freeze them after each time they're frozen: Toadstool Bee Queen Dragonfly Twins of Terror Klaus Antlion Eye of Terror These bosses are immune to freezing: Ancient Fuelweaver Nightmare Werepig Shadow Pieces Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonz Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 On 7/11/2023 at 7:57 PM, Well-met said: having to pick it up is not even close to justify 221 damage a hit That's very low DPS for wolfgang. I've taken once like 25 normal blowpipes, waited for rain, gobbled the swap character's spicy goat jelly. Got the celestial champion to last phase normally with dark swords and then finished last phase off with those blowpipes in less than 15 seconds hitting 600 per blow. And you can blow really fast, gembell will have that goofy aeral time on top of normal swing, having to walk around enemies if there are any left and then pick up time, in this time you could probably do at least 5 dark sword slashes for 660 damage normally. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toroic Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Arcwell said: (I am not arguing anything here, just providing data) These bosses have no freeze resistance/immunity Crab King Celestial Champion Ancient Guardian Malbatross Deerclops Moose/Goose Bearger These bosses have freeze resistance, meaning it takes more hits to freeze them after each time they're frozen: Toadstool Bee Queen Dragonfly Twins of Terror Klaus Antlion Eye of Terror These bosses are immune to freezing: Ancient Fuelweaver Nightmare Werepig Shadow Pieces I appreciate the thoroughness! I stand corrected. It's less than half the bosses that aren't immune or have diminishing returns on freezing. Do you know how long it takes for a boss with freeze resistance to get back to "normal" freeze? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 please let wolfgang be good at the one thing he's supposed to be good at Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrocator Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 In this game you can sometimes choose to engage with a challenge in the “intended” way or to grind resources and “cheese” it. Using these bells is the resource grind way similar to using gunpowder on FW. Given that gunpowder is still a thing I’m not sure if this needs to be changed. It seems pretty situational. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 Gembell's recipe is 1x Purple Gem + 2x Thulecite + 1x Twig. I presume "IceBell"'s similar, but requiring 1x Blue Gem, right? (haven't tested this Beta's Wolfgang) Gembell's base-dmg is 42.5. Thrown by Mighty Wolf does 85 dmg, no special effect, right? "IceBell"'s base-dmg is.. 110.5? I reckon, given the recipe, it should do 42.5 base-dmg as well. In CK video it does 221 dmg when thrown by Mighty Wolf. I presume he's Shadow-aligned and further "Chaud-Froided" up? (though I haven't seen any electric effect in clip) With Freezing AoE dmg effect? Did "PurpleBell" receive any additional effect as well? Theoretically it should, perhaps a slow-down one (akin Walter's Slow-Down Rounds via same gem). Would appreciate if anyone can clarify that 221 dmg from video, ty! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Guille6785 said: please let wolfgang be good at the one thing he's supposed to be good at Ranged combat? Spoiler This is a joke. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/149329-wolfgang-got-and-exclusive-the-best-frozen-weapon-in-the-game/page/2/#findComment-1649920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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