The skilltrees are the logical conclusion for Dst character´s progression

[Malfario]

Lets start with the basics, What does the skilltrees achieve and what they are supose to acomplish ? Well it would seem like the main thing is to buff already existing character abilities.

I havent seen many people comenting these but even when the skilltree added a new mechanic, most of the perks seem to work as buffs for pre-existing abilities, or even expand the original concept, lets take for example woodie, pre skilltree his main thing was a very cheap and accesible jack of all trades, while not the best at anything he was decent on three areas, fighting-exploring-resource gathering, if we look at the lumberjack branch we will see that wodiee has an ability for resource gathering, a combat ability for a mob he encounters far more often, and a way to give other players speed an protection.

I think the skilltrees were the right path to go because most of these perks arent exactly new abilities, rather are buffs to existing ones, and the system of the skilltree lets the players choose how much they want to buff an specific ability.

Other objective the skilltrees seems to have is to bring characters ability to a new level post harmode (for the sake of this conversation I will refer the content post Fuelweaber/Cc as Hard mode). I think the best example of this is wolfgang, wolfgang now has similar dps against the new creatures but only when using the new weapons, wormwood gains special abilities with the new gear, and woodies curses gain the perks that other characters will get from the new gear, keeping his them of the accesible lesser versions of powerfull perks.

Once again i think the skilltrees make for a good system to implement this abilities, the perks clearly seem to be designed to have certain configurations for different areas of the game, for example why would you waste your points on the extra plannar dmg as wolfy in the early game if you dont have acces to plannar weapons ? being relevant at all stages of the game for me justifys the fact that once unlocked they are forever. If for example the skilltrees were abeliable only after enabling rifts the goose branch as well as the wood carving will simply not be ever used, because you will already have canes and the map explored.

And finally i would like to point at the foundation that left the reworks, i ve seen so many times this sentence that goes "every character should hae downsides" but i think this no longer aplies. Lets take for example wickerbottom, The librarian has a unique progression in which she has to set up her farms ,grind for her books and find ways to manage the sanaity drain of her farms, saying that "wicker only has upsides because of her books" is an extremly oversimplification of what the character is, it isnt that she has no downside, what happens is that she is playing her own game with her own rules, if the books didnt have uses and simply coul dbe spammed, were extremly cheap to craft, and she didnt loose sanity from using them maybe you could say she is all upsides, except it isnt because you still have to deal with things like counter the rain in summer if you use the rainbook, dealing with krampus if you farm birds etc.

My point with these being that the skilltrees offer a new layer of upgrade and strategy to perfect your playstyle with certain characters within their own sytem , because these arent new abilities these are perfections of what the characters are already good at.

While there is defenetly room for improvement as in all things, i would like to remark with this post that the skilltrees are not product of lazyness, that they are well thought and implemented, that the fact that klei has decided to implement a feature that other games have doesnt reflect in any means a lack of ideas. Even if they are not for you, and you would prefer another road for the game to take, which by all means is reasonableand and understandable, i dont think its fair minimizing the work putt into this update neither acussing klei of not listening to the comunity.

Thanks for reading.

[00petar00]

So many people can't understand that the game they liked won't ever come back and living in the past isn't good for them.

Would these players even want to play that game today if DST wasn't updated past a certain point a few years ago? It would be a dead game by today and the playerbase would be miniscule compared to the current numbers.

I am not saying that skill trees are perfect and there are a couple of valid reasons to not want them to exist in the game but there are also arguably more positives.

When the update is live on beta servers, it is going to stay in the game and there's no chance it would get scrapped as it has taken a lot of development time.

There can be tweaks but skill trees are here to stay and as soon as the vocal minority understands that point, maybe they can give constructive feedback to developers so that they can make it better.

 

Skill trees allow for different builds and for there to be variety between players that pick the same character (as long as there are multiple good options in the skill tree).

The three characters that got the skill tree in this update kind of really needed it.

So many people are still biased against Wolfgang and while fighting is a quite important part of the game it doesn't mean that he should suck after rifts are activated when it is literally the only thing he is good at. His skill tree is a bit bland and needs some interesting abilities but it does the job.

Woodie's skill tree is where developers outdid themselves, it feels the most perfect. Moon storms can be permanently activated and Wickerbottom's lunar grimoire is an option. His wereforms are worth using and not just a disadvantage anymore.

Wormwood's skill tree seems a bit like klei missed the mark. To be fair this may be more of a Wormwood problem as to me I never knew what his role should be and his skill tree isn't helping as his farming perks are not useful at all and they need to be reworked. Farmhand, identifying seeds and higher chance to summon lord of the fruit flies for some reason? You are better off not taking that perk as it will make him worse at farming.

 

Downsides have never been as impactful as players make them out to be, only a few characters even had an actual downside that you needed to play around. Most of cast didn't and it was just inexperience making it seem more difficult.

[BezKa]

I'm tired of repeating the same stuff over and over, but I need to make sure these threads aren't filled with universal approval. So no, skill trees are not the logical conclusion. They're a side jump to avoid making interesting mechanics that would improve characters in the world they are in, and instead trying to power them for every world for no reason.

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

There can be tweaks but skill trees are here to stay and as soon as the vocal minority understands that point, maybe they can give constructive feedback to developers so that they can make it better.

We do understand it. Most of us are just trying to do something before we're filtered out from the game. We've been giving constructive feedback, albeit between layers of emotion, but it seems people on the forums call "constructive" the feedback they agree with.

And honestly, it's pathetic that rebuttals to us saying skill trees are bad are often "the game is different now move on" yeah we see that. And we think it's wrong. And we want it to change, that's why we're here.

[Malfario]

28 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I'm tired of repeating the same stuff over and over, but I need to make sure these threads aren't filled with mindless approval. So no, skill trees are not the logical conclusion. They're a side jump to avoid making interesting mechanics that would improve characters in the world they are in, and instead trying to power them for every world for no reason.

We do understand it. Most of us are just trying to do something before we're filtered out from the game. We've been giving constructive feedback, albeit between layers of emotion, but it seems people on the forums call "constructive" the feedback they agree with.

And honestly, it's pathetic that rebuttals to us saying skill trees are bad are often "the game is different now move on" yeah we see that. And we think it's wrong. And we want it to change, that's why we're here.

please dont take this as any kind of attack, i just want the conversation to move forward and politely, but what is with the skilltrees that is so bad ? as far as i seen people againsts these just define them as ontologically bad and dont elaborate much from there, not to say i havent seen good points criticising the skilltrees as i said on this post, but i have yet not seen a reason explaining why this adittion is detrimental for the game and why their removal is compulsory.

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, Malfario said:

please dont take this as any kind of attack, i just want the conversation to move forward and politely, but what is with the skilltrees that is so bad ? as far as i seen people againsts these just define them as ontologically bad and dont elaborate much from there, not to say i havent seen good points criticising the skilltrees as i said on this post, but i have yet not seen a reason explaining why this adittion is detrimental for the game and why their removal is compulsory.

Let’s compare skill trees to Wickerbottoms 17 or so books.. Wickerbottom Starts with nothing and over the course of a play session has to quest all over the constant to gather resources & craft all these library of books to climb in her power.

Skill Trees don’t do this (except the parts locked behind fighting the End game Bosses) with skill Trees once you unlock the perks ONCE their Unlocked Forever.. across every game world you join.

Wickerbottom has to work her backside off PER GAME WORLD to gather all the resources for her 17 “skills” meanwhile- well… you get the Idea right?

Wendy has a ton of Ectoherbology potions- But she has to interact with a “Find lost stuffs for Pipspook” Mini Game to get a Wendy exclusive currency Mourning Glories to Craft those Potions.

until we find out what Skill Trees Wickerbottom & Wendy will have we can only compare them to the characters with skill trees.

[ansuman]

I think the skill should be more progression based for each world. Not just celestial champion and fuel weaver. Should be locked behind other bosses like toadstool, crab king

And also skill points on other ways like scrapbooking, plant registry and cookbook, not only surviving x days

[Milordo]

59 minutes ago, Malfario said:

please dont take this as any kind of attack, i just want the conversation to move forward and politely, but what is with the skilltrees that is so bad ? as far as i seen people againsts these just define them as ontologically bad and dont elaborate much from there, not to say i havent seen good points criticising the skilltrees as i said on this post, but i have yet not seen a reason explaining why this adittion is detrimental for the game and why their removal is compulsory.

There is my post, BezKa and lakhnishif post if you want understand why the skill tree is doomed from the start

 

33 minutes ago, ansuman said:

I think the skill should be more progression based for each world. Not just celestial champion and fuel weaver. Should be locked behind other bosses like toadstool, crab king

Now that I think it....that's not really a bad idea. It's a lot like The binding of Isaac checkmarks, where each final bosses you defeat, you unlock a power-up.

Although....this means we're centrizing so much the combat and bosses in the game, from 70% to 90% circa, that it could feel bad to play in others means or with other non-combat themed characters....

[BezKa]

50 minutes ago, Malfario said:

snip

They fail at their goal. Or rather, try to change how introducing new players who come into the game works, leading them along with a carrot, and once the carrots run out, what do you do next?

In original Don't Starve, the only carrot is the one you already have- your own curiosity and goal to have fun. Skill trees are supposed to give new players direction, and reward them for surviving, but 1. They reward days being alive, so technically (I am not making an argument that this is something any rational person would ever do) you could just take a walk for one day, die to Charlie, restart, repeat, for several hours. You aren't rewarded the same way original DS rewarded you- you managed to survive the night, gather enough materials, make a weapon/tool that will allow you to reach more content in the game. You died to  a hound before because you don't know how to kite yet, so you search the menu with all the new recipes, and find armor- you prioritize it, and bam, you succeeded at your own goal. You fed the carrot to yourself. The skill tree however only sees benefit in you staying alive. Death is often more valuable to a player for their learning experience, and trying to avoid it will lock you out of the game- you need risk to get the reward. But if you get rewarded for avoiding risk, you're gonna do it. And you'll get bored. Those two things are at odds with each other. There's probably enough stuff to talk about just on this topic to write an essay, but I don't think we really need it.

2. Once the rewards run out it's back to square one: what do you want to do in this game? This is just moving the goal post. Because the skill tree will tell you to "find and defeat fuel weaver" without explaining what it is, but like, maybe you don't want to? I mean, you had to discover the rest of the game on your own, why is this part highlighted? It goes back to the first point, where the original idea and point of DS stands against what skill trees are. Are you supposed to explore and learn on your own or follow the tree? And once you finish following the tree, you'll find yourself completely lost again. It's different to the original DS where at this point, after you learn the game on your own, have the sense of accomplishment and feel powerful not because you unlocked a skill, but because You, the player, improved. The reward for finishing the game with a skill tree are completely different than without it. I think there's enough games that do it this way, and Don't Starve was very important piece of media on the market that offered this self success experience. And yes, Don't Starve is still here, but I wanted to play with my friends...

3. Many perks that could be justifiable in late game are freely available to you early game once you AFK the 150 days away. Because sure, Woodie's tail slap is cool as hell, and will help with mass producing logs for megabasers or even just casual players who want to save some time gathering logs, but doesn't this sound really weird to you this power is just available to you day one in new worlds? If you're fine with it being available, then why use a skill tree? Just put it in his base abilities.

4. Nullifying downsides is just... uhh. It's like if WX got a waterproofing circuit, or Wickerbottom could use sleepytimes on herself. Except in this case you'd have to at least pay the resources to do it, the skill tree is, again, free every time after you do the original 150 days. The skill tree gives you more power, without giving you downsides, and nullifies your downsides without creating new ones. Arguing that character downsides do not matter, never did, is nonsense- if they're enough to make your "perfect run" at least a bit handicapped, they're working. Wigfrid won't eat veggies. Well, part of your early game now is not only exploration, but bigger focus on hunting. You can't just grab the carrots or berries like with other characters. You might scoff at it because whatever, you can fight and making a campfire is nothing, but you still need to do that. The downside is working. A tutorial for making your own character on the modding forum put it really well- Imagine your character is in a really bad situation, and try to make it worse. Walter got hit, losing health. He's now also losing sanity because his health is lowered. That means shadow creatures. And other stuff like that.

5. The balance of the game. Yes, I know people hate talking about this, I hate it too. But it is worth talking about. Because by letting the player become overpowered, you will make them not consider certain choices. Why try fighting with the morning star, when you can click the 20% damage buff on your skill tree and just do what you wanted in a somewhat similar pace instead of crafting an ite you would normally have to spend a goat horn on? And it will snowball on the forums too- where a few years back I still heard opinions about dealing with Deerclops, but now it's considered a miniboss. The skill trees will diminish the pre-post game difficulty, going back to point 3. Klei keeps adding stuff, but they do not adjust other things to keep it in line- and forumers commonly demand buffs for items just because they're new. The fencing sword? Holy crap what was that discussion even? A tool that is called a sword for a joke, and people went "it's not a good enough weapon!". There were just a few of them, but there's much more people speaking up when it's actual weapons or armor. The game needs bad choices and mediocre choices too. They are worse, but cheaper. When you're stuck at a temporary base with no resources to get back to your home without freezing, but you have the rabbits you wanted to use for war saddle or Prestihatitator and a stick, you're going to make the worse item that are earmuffs just to survive.And sure, later game equipment should be better, because supposedly the late game should get more difficult. But it isn't. And skill trees aren't items, again, they. are. free.

6. The choosing of your skills and all that personalizing your character is disingenuous in my opinion. Don't Starve has always worked like this. I'm just going to quote myself from a different thread because my opinion has not changed on the topic:

14 hours ago, BezKa said:

Isn't that what choosing a character was for? Nothing ever stopped you from being a farmer Wendy. Or to rush bosses as Woodie. Or using items that work better with your playstyle.

I think those (unlockable character perks) should work like early game does. You can go to the ruins, to get useful gear. You can focus on making your base safe and self sustainable. You can go to the ocean and rush the CC task line. If you do some of it, by simple fact that time is linear, you can't do the other. But as you get later in game, and you gain more free time (eyebrella protects you from heat and rain, so you don't have to spend time regulating your temperature or picking up your tools) which means you can do more. I think characters should work the same- where you have to choose which way to go this time, and by virtue of choice some things become unavailable. You can change your mind in the middle too. And then, as you get more time, you can use more. Some characters already work this way. Wigfrid can choose which songs to seek out if any. Wormwood can prioritize dark sword manufacturing so he will focus on getting healing/revival items. As he gets more time, he'll get the infinity bloom going because he can afford to. The entirety of WX's character is about picking their abilities, and they never needed a skill tree to do it.

I think this makes player personality shine way more than locking them out of content or enabling them to ignore certain mechanics for free. I think this makes DST a more fun, more beautiful game.

We already had this mechanic, and made in a much better, natural way. Reintroducing it, but with this shallow "click to choose" and not in a conscious "I am going to do this thing" decision, is blatantly worse when you compare the two. And I'm really sorry but I severely doubt all the people here who want "player personality to shine" are actually that ecstatic to click on people's characters to see a small graph of some of their choices. Even more so, once the youtube tutorials come out and provide templates for min maxing certain aspects and some people will just do what they heard is "the best". I always found it way more telling on pubs to see who is hammering pig houses, who rushes to the pig king, who starts the honey farm, who goes to base in the swamp. Those are actual personality shining moments.

I think this is enough for now. There is the whole discussion on the lack of creativity behind skill trees, more in depth discussion on the balance of the game, a talk to be had about the unfinished and abandoned content we were waiting for years Klei to come back to. But I think this wall of text should suffice.

And once again, I know nothing is going to change. The content is alredy in the beta, devs are fixing bugs related to how the trees work, there is no hope. But I still think it's important we explain why this change is bad. For, when in a couple of years Klei crosses the line even you wouldn't accept, players can come back here and see that others saw the signs of what's coming much earlier. And then they'll understand what we were talking about.

[Antynomity]

The only skills I enjoy are the ones that still require some sort of work to activate past obtaining them, mostly ones that affect or add new craftable items, but no it's not the logical next step in their current implementation and balancing, if that got taken care of then yeah, I guess.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

Although....this means we're centrizing so much the combat and bosses in the game, from 70% to 90% circa, that it could feel bad to play in others means or with other non-combat themed characters....

Actually it gets even weirder when you think about it as this update turned Wormwood into a full blown combat character not just a character who can do well at combat due to his perks having a use in combat I don't hate it or anything but this kinda sets the tone for what to expect for the non combat focused characters...

2 hours ago, BezKa said:

And honestly, it's pathetic that rebuttals to us saying skill trees are bad are often "the game is different now move on" yeah we see that. And we think it's wrong. And we want it to change, that's why we're here.

Honestly it annoys me even more considering some of the same people blow up when a update they don't like comes around.

[Milordo]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Actually it gets even weirder when you think about it as this update turned Wormwood into a full blown combat character not just a character who can do well at combat due to his perks having a use in combat I don't hate it or anything but this kinda sets the tone for what to expect for the non combat focused characters...

I knew already we had Don't Starve: Forge together years before these updates. The hints were everywhere

[Copyafriend]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Actually it gets even weirder when you think about it as this update turned Wormwood into a full blown combat character not just a character who can do well at combat due to his perks having a use in combat I don't hate it or anything but this kinda sets the tone for what to expect for the non combat focused characters...

I mean, he wasnt though. Only POST CC (or if you personally choose to opt into pre cc rifts but you still need to kill cc once) does he have any combat focused abilities. 
 

And its two abilities out of the whole tree. Theres an argument for the mushroom spores but honestly i think that you’re kind of blowing it out of proportion when he still has the harshest downside in game.

and isnt the point of the skill trees to allow players choice? What if players want to play wormwood but also do combat? Thats the point, if you dont want warrior wormwood then dont play as him, its hard to argue for it being a tone shifter when it’s literally in the post rift world

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I mean, he wasnt though. Only POST CC (or if you personally choose to opt into pre cc rifts but you still need to kill cc once) does he have any combat focused abilities. 
 

And its two abilities out of the whole tree. Theres an argument for the mushroom spores but honestly i think that you’re kind of blowing it out of proportion when he still has the harshest downside in game.

and isnt the point of the skill trees to allow players choice? What if players want to play wormwood but also do combat? Thats the point, if you dont want warrior wormwood then dont play as him, its hard to argue for it being a tone shifter when it’s literally in the post rift world

I mean sure choice is fine and again as I said I wasn't against it but consider that there aren't too many combat based abilities in the game as it stands so it makes things like this more substantial you might be overthinking my response a bit.

Also I've always advocated that Wormwood was already good at combat.

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Malfario said:

please dont take this as any kind of attack, i just want the conversation to move forward and politely, but what is with the skilltrees that is so bad ? as far as i seen people againsts these just define them as ontologically bad and dont elaborate much from there, not to say i havent seen good points criticising the skilltrees as i said on this post, but i have yet not seen a reason explaining why this adittion is detrimental for the game and why their removal is compulsory.

Skill trees can work, i am not against the concept, the concept i like . I like Wolfgang's skill tree alot even though the affinity skills sre pretty overtuned, however not sure about the other two or how it will effect the future roster.

[HowlVoid]

3 hours ago, BezKa said:

I need to make sure these threads aren't filled with mindless approval. 

This is why I can't take some of these "rebuttals" seriously, most of these comments boil down to people clutching their pearls and calling people who like the skill trees idiots.

We like them, they're here to say. 

Some people have had good criticism and have made good suggestions for improving them rather than continue to kick a dead horse.

Just want to give a quick thank you to everyone who is trying to make the skill trees a better experience for us all.

[HowlVoid]

4 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I would maybe accept this critism from someone else, but over the years I've seen you comment under every thread that even mentioned Wormwood about your grievances about him and complaining about the problems you saw with him.

Well yeah, that's what the forums are for.

But recently it has mostly been about approval of the recent wormwood changes. 

There is some fluff but the parts I like, I really like.

4 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I just want to make sure the "vocal minority" gets heard. Until you're all absolutely sick of me.

So you're just like me then. Although I don't call people mindless.

I think it would be better to come up with ideas to improve the current skill trees rather than trying to come up with a replacement. That probably has a higher chance of being criticism Klei can use.

[Valase]

2 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I just want to make sure the "vocal minority" gets heard. Until you're all absolutely sick of me.

All the vocal parts are getting heard,  but talking over and over on something that already was answered is not quite useful. Especially when we know that there are ways to give a proper feedback.

And at the same time that I do like the skill trees, especially as a way to give different strenghts to characters, I do have my observations about how we get the points. So I will wait until the next "patch" of this beta so we can see the progress of what was perceived as hits and misses for the Dev team( AKA what they change based on our feedback).

[BezKa]

9 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

That probably has a higher chance of being criticism Klei can use.

I do not want to settle for mediocrity. The skill trees are fundamentaly bad and I am not going to compromise anymore.

Yeah, using the word mindless was a mistake. It has a similar connotation with "all the same/similar" in my head, I'm not sure when I forgot it's actually an insult. I'll edit the post in a minute.

3 minutes ago, Valase said:

something that already was answered is not quite useful.

Where? By whom? I did not see a developer respond to any feedback since the beta came out.

[Trevindo]

28 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

This is why I can't take some of these "rebuttals" seriously, most of these comments boil down to people clutching their pearls and calling people who like the skill trees idiots.

We like them, they're here to say. 

Some people have had good criticism and have made good suggestions for improving them rather than continue to kick a dead horse.

Just want to give a quick thank you to everyone who is trying to make the skill trees a better experience for us all.

It's really difficult to come to the forum and see the same people saying the same things all the time, they think they are not listened to, but it would be enough to have opened a topic on the subject, they wouldn't have to go to all the forum topics and cry and say drama for something we already know they think. Not only does that seem like anything goes to them, it's worth making dumb analogies, interpreting data arbitrarily, and making assumptions about us.

Among the many things they say if you don't agree with them they simply say you're a skill tree lover and you're blind, not least because I wasn't one of the first forum players to talk about alternatives to skill trees when Wilson had its rework, didn't it?

What's comical about this is that in Brazil, something similar happened. In the 2022 elections, a minority of the population invented that the electronic ballot boxes were rigged and that they were easily cracked (even the ballot boxes did not have internet access), they were hopeful that they would win the elections and said that the intention polls were rigged. After the elections they lost and stayed in front of the barracks for more than two months asking for military intervention, that is, they asked the armed forces to take power and annul the elections and therefore the vote of the majority of the population, they thought they were saving the Brazil standing still in front of the barracks, but they were only creating confusion and impeding the flow of the region. I think it's easy to understand how this analogy works here.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Valase said:

All the vocal parts are getting heard,  but talking over and over on something that already was answered is not quite useful. Especially when we know that there are ways to give a proper feedback.

And at the same time that I do like the skill trees, especially as a way to give different strenghts to characters, I do have my observations about how we get the points. So I will wait until the next "patch" of this beta so we can see the progress of what was perceived as hits and misses for the Dev team( AKA what they change based on our feedback).

Problem is people need to be very vocal to be heard keeping quiet gives the impression that people are satisfied or got over the issues they had with it do you think any changes would have happened in the last 2 updates had people not continuously voiced their concerns? People telling those who hate the skill tree to essentially get over it and be quiet unless you want to work on the skill tree comes off as very disingenuous but so many people are doing it and pretending like that's ok even people who had the same mindset in other updates.

And for clarity since I'm sure people are going to paint me in one camp or the other my stance has been and still is that I enjoy the skill trees just that there are some aspects of what were added I dislike.

[Valase]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

do you think any changes would have happened in the last 2 updates had people not continuously voiced their concerns?

Yes and no, people that addressed their concerns in a correct manner (people that made a topic to express the problem on the update, and give suggestions, including removing said content) did help to the changes that happened on those updates and also in this one (we got pillars and new effects to the new equipments things that were all direct points on one topic or another), but people that went into every post to express their disbelief even if they were right, did not help as much as they think.

 

1 hour ago, BezKa said:

Where? By whom? I did not see a developer respond to any feedback since the beta came out.

I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear with this one. The skill tree came to stay, if that was not the case, Wilson rework would not have come through. But, again, we still are entitled to voice our concers in a new or properly related topic, but coming in the "The skilltrees are the logical conclusion for Dst character´s progression" to say "skill trees should be removed" is not the way, I do encourage you to make one topic and then put your opinions up to debate. And I will try to be more clear, repeating the same thing on multiple topics that may or may not be related to what you said will not be better to addressing your complaints in one properly explained topic.

[goatt]

Skill tree is not the logical conclusion. There are many alternatives to achieve what skill trees have done. Skill trees are just dev’s choice.

the same things have been implemented traditionally without skill trees, such as general progression weapon and armor, wickerbottom’s book progression, and nearly every unlockable.

I personally think skill tree is just a buzz word Klei uses to attract interests, a new skin for the same stuff. The problem is how awkward its implementation fits to the rest of the game and to the expectation they set in 2023 roadmap.

[Cheggf]

The "logical conclusion" for character progression is obtaining new items from new sources, not starting the game with random uninspired changes like "X is exactly the same, but number bigger" because you left the game on afk last week.

[BezKa]

25 minutes ago, Valase said:

but coming in the "The skilltrees are the logical conclusion for Dst character´s progression" to say "skill trees should be removed" is not the way

On one hand, I agree, being annoying and complaining in places not meant for it is infuriating for everyone, but consider my side for a second- we make a topic, and express what we think. We get people who disagree with us all in there, trying to tell us our feedback is useless and to just accept the game, "I for one like the change" etc etc. Then when we refuse to argue with people who just tell us we're wrong period, don't offer actual contrarguments, our thread sinks to the second page never to be seen again. (exaggeration)

When a new person comes over to check the forums, and they see all the positive opinions under threads praising the changes, they might not even consider the option that this update is not as good as people who just want new skills might think. We need to speak up and disagree with the "positive threads" otherwise nobody's going to even consider the other side.

[Mike23Ua]

Continuing with my previous post, I want to state that Klei’s “Skill Trees” Suck.. and they’re Uncreative in my opinion.

Lets use Woodie as an Example, he has new skills to craft a Wooden Helmet & a Wooden Walking Stick, that’s OKAY I guess… but- They should’ve allowed him to craft these items while only in beaver form and from gnawing on Trees to “Carve” them.

If Wendy has to follow a Pipspook around the map to locate a resource only Wendy can Use to craft potions only Wendy can use..

Woodie could’ve got some new resource while gnawing on trees such as “Wood Chips” 

The skill trees to me just feel like a way of getting lazy with what should’ve been more in-depth thought out character development.

And WOLFGANGS in particular is nothing more than fan service, restore his raw power.. give him back his speed buff etc.