[CONTENT WARNING] I hope Klei can explain what is“Our Chinese community are largely supportive”

[Jeff Richardson]

18 minutes ago, xhyom said:

Can you point out where I said that the star is offensive? You surely just made this thing up.

Can you answer my question? Or do you just keep repeating the same thing? What about the other stars? 

Can you step down from that pedestal of moral superiority? The only thing you can argue with is that I have some kind of prejudice for saying that this offended Jew story is not fact, while you want me to discuss the case as if it were the most absolute truth, I said, it is not. I won't walk into your sow trap.

Your question is very strange.

When did I say that the six pointed star is offensive? Brother, are you fabricating a lie?

You can take a good look at that picture. The person in the picture said that his Jewish friend felt unhappy. But I am not very familiar with the detailed situation of Jewish brothers. So this question is raised: Why does the Six Star make Jewish players feel uncomfortable, but they actually put this pattern on their own flag.

 

 

I want to learn more about the customs, religion, and culture of Jewish brothers. I believe that only by truly understanding them can we truly respect them. Otherwise, it's just giving them their mercy just like treating beggars.

This is wrong!!!!!

 

 

And you said moral Superiority complex? Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. I think this is the most fundamental respect and quality. It can't bring me any Superiority complex.

Is learning to respect others a difficult morality for you to achieve?

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Kiel also altered Charlie's design in game when people gave references for a better look for it which race do we have to blame for that? Clearly one of them were exercising their mythical highly inconsistent control over Kiel as well.

Also this post your referring to says a "friend" claimed to be offended meaning that it wasn't even the person themselves and we can't even confirm if that "friend" exists. 

Also this post your referring to says a "friend" claimed to be offended meaning that it wasn't even the person themselves and we can't even confirm if that "friend" exists. 

I quite agree with your statement.

There are some despicable guys who are full of stereotypes about Jewish brothers. They fabricated a 'Jewish friend' to satisfy their imagination. This is discrimination against Jewish brothers.

It's wrong. We should not impose such stereotypes on Jewish brothers, black brothers, Arab brothers, indigenous brothers, and Asian brothers.

 

 

This is arrogance and prejudice. It will destroy our inclusive society.

 

We should not listen to this despicable guy's one-sided words. We need to hear the thoughts of true Jewish brothers and allow them to express their thoughts accurately and without hesitation in this free world.

Klei was also deceived by this guy and mistakenly acted unfriendly towards his Jewish brothers.

But I think the tolerant Jewish brothers will forgive this and give Klei the opportunity to correct his mistakes. After all, we are brothers.

[zhengda]

1 hour ago, little catcoon said:

中国玩家目前的主要愤怒在于：

1：他们认为Joew对中国玩家发表了不当的言论。

2：对于删除评论不满，他们认为这是想隐瞒真相。

3：他们认为KLEI听从了犹太人的意见并因此妥协改变了皮肤。

起初我也是这样认为的，但在前往KLEI论坛后，我才意识到一切可能都是莫须有的，而是有人在煽风点火。

不当的言论大概是翻译问题。

删除评论只是正常的言论规范。

关于犹太人则是空穴来风，违反了KLEI的设计原则。

以上是可能的真相，也可能不是。

但我相信，这个所谓的"犹太人"是子虚乌有的，因为"这个犹太人"而在外观上做出改变是不太可能的，毕竟六芒星的元素在游戏中并不少见（就比如科学机器皮肤），而其他的都保留了下来，明显说不通。更大的可能是好事者在得知皮肤改变后将这二者联系在了一起，放出谣言。（这也是我的个人猜测）

即使是在看完了十几页的评论之后，我对真相依旧云里雾里，更何况那些不明所以，只能被别人的评论左右的大多数玩家，或者是进来只看了寥寥数语，断章取义的人。可以说绝大多数愤怒的中国玩家只是被带动了情绪，这在现代互联网上也很正常。而一开始问题的发端——迁就宗教或许不是主要问题，主要问题是现在许多中国玩家被蒙蔽，相信了他们周围环境认为的，最糟糕的看法。他们认为Joew对中国玩家发表了不当的言论，而现在一切解释可能都效果甚微，因为他们愿意相信他们相信的，任何解释他们都会认为在狡辩，任何致歉他们都会认为在敷衍。

中国玩家认为自己受到了轻视，之前也看到有人因为饥荒没有中国角色而不满，但我认为饥荒中，中国元素是不乏的，比如生肖年活动，以及农历新年活动。而现在他们又将他们认为的对宗教的妥协转化为对他们的轻视，因为他们中大多数对宗教没有信仰并且认为这种妥协是荒谬的，但他们的愤怒只是来源于那道听途说的改变皮肤的原因，而那很可能只是谣言。

我不知道外国玩家现在对中国玩家是什么态度，但我们做出这样的表现我们应当深感愧疚。许多人对事情的始末根本不明所以，被造势者利用了愤怒。中国玩家有人因为这个误会，给了don't starve差评，有人对游戏厌恶，这种行为很可笑，虽然是他们自己造成的，但既对KLEI造成了不好的影响，也败坏了中国玩家的形象。而这一切的起因都是交流的匮乏。现在中国玩家呼吁的"诚恳的道歉"以及撤销对皮肤的修改我认为还是其次，最重要的是拓宽信息交流渠道澄清真相，结束这场无休无止的闹剧。

Couldn't agree more! That's exactly the same feeling of mine.

[Seberiangay]

3 hours ago, iamxyy said:

Because there are few issues of racial discrimination in China, everyone is very insensitive to it. So you may see memes of racial discrimination anywhere. 

This does not mean that people support these, they have no feelings for them.

Every Kulturkreis has its own sensitive part, that is not hard to understand, which is why communication is important.

另外你并没有复制我说的那句话，所以我也不打算继续与你交流了，随你的便吧。Have a nice day.

I didn't response to you because I was engaging in a broader discussion with the entire community rather than solely with you. However, since you insist, I will put it in a more thorough and comprehensive way:It is proposed that both sides of the cross-strait relations, along with other relevant nations, adhere to the principles outlined in the 1992 consensus(92共识) to open up a path for peaceful development of cross-strait relations.

Now we can continue our discussion

While it is true that different cultures have their own sensitivities and values, it is essential to recognize that insensitivity to racism is not an acceptable or justifiable stance.Racism is a violation of universal human rights, regardless of cultural context. The principle of equality and non-discrimination is enshrined in international human rights conventions, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is important to hold individuals and societies accountable for upholding these principles.'
Cultivating empathy and compassion for others, regardless of their race or background, is a moral imperative. Insensitivity to racism undermines the values of fairness, equality, and justice. It is important for individuals to challenge their own biases and actively promote a culture of inclusivity and respect.
 

On the other hand, these hateful comments not only perpetuate racism but also express support for the crimes against humanity committed by the Nazis. It is important to remember that China itself was a victim of fascism during World War II. It is unacceptable for any Chinese community to hold such opinions under any circumstances.

 

Furthermore, the ongoing discussions on Tieba have resulted in prejudice against Judaism. While these opinions may be held by only a small proportion of individuals, it is evident that the moderators have made no effort to address or rectify the situation.

Despite these replies being posted at least three days ago, the moderators haven't removed them until now. (I captured these screenshots this afternoon from a representative thread that summarizes the entire event).

 

[s00me_guy]

21 hours ago, whiteking said:

His meaning is that Islam considers pigs to be dirty, while Hinduism considers beefalos to be sacred, so they do not eat these two animals.

Yeah but like, these are virtual animals, and I don't think it's any harm to eat a virtual animal, plus, it's not cool to force your beliefs/habits on others

[sakura snow]

@JoeW 

As a Chinese player, I have a question to clarify regarding this skin modification.

In China, game manufacturers are not allowed to modify the art design of sold character images and game props without the consent of consumers for reasons such as optimization, upgrading, or artistic updates.

Klei's modification of this skin violates Articles 9 and 10 of China's Consumer Rights Protection Law.

The modification of this skin is an illegal act.

I hope you can understand this fact and respond accordingly.

 

This link is the China Consumers Association's interpretation of relevant laws. You can read it in detail.

https://www.cca.org.cn/zxsd/detail/29477.html

Ps: China Consumers Association is an official organization approved by Chinese authorities to supervise enterprises and protect consumers' rights and interests.

 

This paragraph is the translation of the corresponding paragraph, which uses Machine translation. You can find people who know Chinese to check the original text.

 

Question 3: The issue of damage to the right to choose and property rights. Some consumers have reported that online game operators, without their consent, arbitrarily change the sold character images, game props and their functions, special effects, etc. in the name of optimizing and upgrading game products.

Analysis: Article 9 of the Consumer Rights Protection Law stipulates that "consumers have the right to independently choose goods or services. Consumers have the right to... independently choose the variety of goods or service methods, and independently decide whether to purchase or not to purchase any kind of goods, accept or not to accept any service." Article 10 stipulates that, Consumers have the right to fair trading. When purchasing goods or receiving services, consumers have the right to obtain fair trading conditions such as quality assurance, reasonable prices, and accurate measurements, and have the right to refuse forced trading by operators. Article 127 of the General Principles of the Civil Law stipulates that "if there are provisions in the law regarding the protection of data and virtual property on the internet, such provisions shall prevail

The online game character images, props and other products purchased by consumers have property attributes and are property rights recognized and protected by the General Principles of Civil Law. Due to the virtual nature of online game products, their possession and use are all within the game, and consumers have limited control over purchased products. Online game operators should not use their own advantages to change the actual functions and effects of products purchased by consumers without their consent, in the name of upgrading, optimizing, etc. In practice, some online game operators still require consumers to provide general authorization in service agreements through unilateral format clauses, agreeing to the company's adjustments, updates, or optimizations of any content or constituent elements in the game (including but not limited to characters, game equipment, art design, performance, and related data settings that consumers have purchased or are using), and will not hold the company responsible for any legal liability, This practice deprives consumers of their right to choose, fair trade, and claim compensation, and infringes on their legitimate rights and interests.

 

I hope to receive your response and provide a reasonable explanation for this legal issue. @JoeW

[old esc coli]

6 hours ago, s00me_guy said:

Yeah but like, these are virtual animals, and I don't think it's any harm to eat a virtual animal, plus, it's not cool to force your beliefs/habits on others

 The Jewish friend who thinks he has been offended cannot represent all Jews.it's not cool to force his beliefs/habits on others

[old esc coli]

8 hours ago, Seberiangay said:

Despite these replies being posted at least three days ago, the moderators haven't removed them until now. (I captured these screenshots this afternoon from a representative thread that summarizes the entire event).

Why delete these comments? Joew also did not delete someone insults to the Chinese people.

[old esc coli]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:25 PM, gudacy said:

Well, I don't think so many chinese players using soap to refer about the Jewish is trying to put the topic back.I think you are out of sense.

If the center government could believe the peasant have enough food to eat，that the center government could also make up to everyone all these things.

But they couldn't,and everyone on the outside of the GFW can easily find these facts and providence by googling.

If no Chinese remembers what happened and tells their descendants, then it is fake. You are really ridiculous.

[zhengda]

5 hours ago, sakura snow said:

@JoeW 

As a Chinese player, I have a question to clarify regarding this skin modification.

In China, game manufacturers are not allowed to modify the art design of sold character images and game props without the consent of consumers for reasons such as optimization, upgrading, or artistic updates.

Klei's modification of this skin violates Articles 9 and 10 of China's Consumer Rights Protection Law.

The modification of this skin is an illegal act.

I hope you can understand this fact and respond accordingly.

 

This link is the China Consumers Association's interpretation of relevant laws. You can read it in detail.

https://www.cca.org.cn/zxsd/detail/29477.html

Ps: China Consumers Association is an official organization approved by Chinese authorities to supervise enterprises and protect consumers' rights and interests.

 

This paragraph is the translation of the corresponding paragraph, which uses Machine translation. You can find people who know Chinese to check the original text.

 

Question 3: The issue of damage to the right to choose and property rights. Some consumers have reported that online game operators, without their consent, arbitrarily change the sold character images, game props and their functions, special effects, etc. in the name of optimizing and upgrading game products.

Analysis: Article 9 of the Consumer Rights Protection Law stipulates that "consumers have the right to independently choose goods or services. Consumers have the right to... independently choose the variety of goods or service methods, and independently decide whether to purchase or not to purchase any kind of goods, accept or not to accept any service." Article 10 stipulates that, Consumers have the right to fair trading. When purchasing goods or receiving services, consumers have the right to obtain fair trading conditions such as quality assurance, reasonable prices, and accurate measurements, and have the right to refuse forced trading by operators. Article 127 of the General Principles of the Civil Law stipulates that "if there are provisions in the law regarding the protection of data and virtual property on the internet, such provisions shall prevail

The online game character images, props and other products purchased by consumers have property attributes and are property rights recognized and protected by the General Principles of Civil Law. Due to the virtual nature of online game products, their possession and use are all within the game, and consumers have limited control over purchased products. Online game operators should not use their own advantages to change the actual functions and effects of products purchased by consumers without their consent, in the name of upgrading, optimizing, etc. In practice, some online game operators still require consumers to provide general authorization in service agreements through unilateral format clauses, agreeing to the company's adjustments, updates, or optimizations of any content or constituent elements in the game (including but not limited to characters, game equipment, art design, performance, and related data settings that consumers have purchased or are using), and will not hold the company responsible for any legal liability, This practice deprives consumers of their right to choose, fair trade, and claim compensation, and infringes on their legitimate rights and interests.

 

I hope to receive your response and provide a reasonable explanation for this legal issue. @JoeW

Don't be ridiculous.

All game update would be illegal if it's the case.

[sakura snow]

6 hours ago, zhengda said:

Don't be ridiculous.

All game update would be illegal if it's the case.

Firstly, the illegality of other companies is not a reason for Klei's illegality.

If your legal awareness is weak, don't take it for granted.You don't know how to protect your own rights, and don't obstruct others from protecting your own rights.

Illegality is illegal, right is right, and wrong is wrong. The fact will not change due to other factors.

 

Secondly, I would like JoeW to answer whether you are aware of this law in China.

@JoeW

[s00me_guy]

10 hours ago, old esc coli said:

 The Jewish friend who thinks he has been offended cannot represent all Jews.it's not cool to force his beliefs/habits on others

Exactly what I said, yeah.

Except I didn't really say anything about the Jewish but eh

 

On 6/30/2023 at 3:09 PM, Cassielu said:

Great, it's political orientation war now.

Hey, that's just the internet sometimes huh?

Then again, wasn't this just because @JoeWjust said something mild but wrong on accident? What's all this now?

On 6/28/2023 at 5:15 PM, whiteking said:

 

One dollar? Who cares?We are concerned about what Klei is ******* do!

Like come on, a big throwback here, it really feels impossible that we managed to talk about Jews and stuff and other political stuff just because of this silly thing

As a Chinese myself, I really don't find much of a need to get fussy about this :L

Well I guess I'm not actually in (or born in) China which somewhat (or completely) invalidates what I say

[old esc coli]

1 hour ago, s00me_guy said:

Exactly what I said, yeah.

Except I didn't really say anything about the Jewish but eh

 

Yes. Many people, including me, believe so.

We don't know if that "Jewish friend" exists, but what we can confirm is that Jews did not profit from such changes. This incident deepens others' prejudice against Jews. Such changes are unwise.

[s00me_guy]

22 minutes ago, old esc coli said:

Yes. Many people, including me, believe so.

We don't know if that "Jewish friend" exists, but what we can confirm is that Jews did not profit from such changes. This incident deepens others' prejudice against Jews. Such changes are unwise.

It really doesn't affect the Jews much, atleast, I don't think so, I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I really doubt it HAS deepened any prejudice, well, atleast, it probably shouldn't have.

[Catteflyterpill]

22 minutes ago, old esc coli said:

Yes. Many people, including me, believe so.

We don't know if that "Jewish friend" exists, but what we can confirm is that Jews did not profit from such changes. This incident deepens others' prejudice against Jews. Such changes are unwise.

What a weird take. If this incident is causing people to deepen prejudices against Jewish people, they really need to look themselves in the mirror and reconsider their mentalities.This move was by Klei because they saw something they could quickly fix to be better in line with their standards and they did it. People blaming the Jewish community or Klei being 'woke' and 'politically correct' are just looking for something to get mad about.

[zhengda]

6 hours ago, sakura snow said:

Firstly, the illegality of other companies is not a reason for Klei's illegality.

If your legal awareness is weak, don't take it for granted.You don't know how to protect your own rights, and don't obstruct others from protecting your own rights.

Illegality is illegal, right is right, and wrong is wrong. The fact will not change due to other factors.

 

Secondly, I would like JoeW to answer whether you are aware of this law in China.

@JoeW

It's all in your term and condition agreement.

[sakura snow]

17 minutes ago, zhengda said:

It's all in your term and condition agreement.

Although I don't really want to talk to you, the person I want to ask is JoeW.

Because only those who can represent Klei can answer whether they intentionally violated Chinese laws.

 

 

But I still hope you can explain in detail the meaning of your sentence. It has nothing to do with what I said, at least I think so.

[Ridepod]

18 hours ago, sakura snow said:

In China, game manufacturers are not allowed to modify the art design of sold character images and game props without the consent of consumers for reasons such as optimization, upgrading, or artistic updates.

[sakura snow]

40 minutes ago, Ridepod said:

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. What is the relationship between this picture and what I said?

 

This is a fact that modifying the skin of Klei in China is illegal. This is an operation that is not allowed. No matter what the reason for Klei's skin modification is, he has no right to make modifications without consulting the player's opinions.

 

The point here is not the reason why Klei modified the skin, but that Klei modified the skin without notifying and obtaining the player's consent.

 

Forgive me for calling Joew again here. @JoeW

[Zeklo]

20 minutes ago, sakura snow said:

The point here is not the reason why Klei modified the skin, but that Klei modified the skin without notifying and obtaining the player's consent.

Genuinely curious about this.

How would this process usually go?
How is consent determined?
Is consent defined by majority?
If a single consumer refused to consent are things just locked?

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I'm willing to guess there's a lot more semantics to it. Likely in ToS as suggested above.

[Popian]

1 hour ago, sakura snow said:

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. What is the relationship between this picture and what I said?

Posting the screenshot supports that the change was an artistic one.

 

I would suggest you seek a lawyer instead of JoeW for legal advice. I am not a lawyer myself, but I will offer the following opinions on your issue:

That portion of Article 9 seems to be referring to an unfair situation where a vendor is selling apples publicly but tells one specific consumer that they can only pick moldy apples.

Article 10 may allow the offer of refunds as part of quality assurance (but again I am not a lawyer so don't trust me on that).

There is also Article 11 that may explicitly allow for refunds: "Consumers who suffer personal or property damage due to purchasing or using commodities or receiving services shall have the right to obtain compensation according to law."

第十一条 消费者因购买、使用商品或者接受服务受到人身、财产损害的，享有依法获得赔偿的权利。

Source: https://www.gov.cn/jrzg/2013-10/25/content_2515601.htm

Again, if that does not satisfy you I would verify if this is true with a lawyer.

[sakura snow]

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

Genuinely curious about this.

How would this process usually go?
How is consent determined?
Is consent defined by majority?
If a single consumer refused to consent are things just locked?

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I'm willing to guess there's a lot more semantics to it. Likely in ToS as suggested above.

If we strictly follow the law and meticulously complete the rules.

It is necessary to seek player feedback. Here is an example: the redoing of heroes in League of Legends is decided by voting. This can to some extent reflect the player's wishes. This example is a good way to respect the wishes of players and protect their rights.

But in real life, many game manufacturers do not strictly follow the rules because it is too difficult to execute. But most of them will make an announcement before making changes, and this announcement will be made in player related forums.

If this modification is not reasonable, there is enough time for players to provide feedback to the game manufacturer. When the opposition of players is strong enough, game manufacturers need to reconsider whether modifications are appropriate.

Of course, there are some companies that like to exploit legal loopholes, they will sell virtual currencies such as gold coins, and then let players use the virtual currency for lottery, purchase, and other operations to obtain game props. It is difficult to define such operations in relevant laws, as these laws are still incomplete.

 

 

And Klei completely ignored Chinese players in this matter. They did not notify Chinese players of this matter, even though Chinese players account for 70% of the total number of players.

They forcibly took the property from the player's hands and gave them what Klei wanted without asking the player: Do you want this.

If, I mean if, before modifying the skin, Klei notified Chinese players: Oh, we think this star is too ugly, and we decided to replace it with a better design. It's cool. You will definitely fall in love with it.

No matter what the content of the announcement is, things will not turn out like this.

But the funniest and saddest part is also here, where Klei has no operational staff in the forums where Chinese players are active. No one!

17 minutes ago, Popian said:

Posting the screenshot supports that the change was an artistic one.

 

I would suggest you seek a lawyer instead of JoeW for legal advice. I am not a lawyer myself, but I will offer the following opinions on your issue:

That portion of Article 9 seems to be referring to an unfair situation where a vendor is selling apples publicly but tells one specific consumer that they can only pick moldy apples.

Article 10 may allow the offer of refunds as part of quality assurance (but again I am not a lawyer so don't trust me on that).

There is also Article 11 that may explicitly allow for refunds: "Consumers who suffer personal or property damage due to purchasing or using commodities or receiving services shall have the right to obtain compensation according to law."

第十一条 消费者因购买、使用商品或者接受服务受到人身、财产损害的，享有依法获得赔偿的权利。

Source: https://www.gov.cn/jrzg/2013-10/25/content_2515601.htm

Again, if that does not satisfy you I would verify if this is true with a lawyer.

You can check the explanation given by the China Consumers Association, an official organization in China.

https://www.cca.org.cn/zxsd/detail/29477.html

 

Question 3: The issue of damage to the right to choose and property rights. Some consumers have reported that online game operators, without their consent, arbitrarily change the sold character images, game props and their functions, special effects, etc. in the name of optimizing and upgrading game products.

Analysis: Article 9 of the Consumer Rights Protection Law stipulates that "consumers have the right to independently choose goods or services. Consumers have the right to... independently choose the variety of goods or service methods, and independently decide whether to purchase or not to purchase any kind of goods, accept or not to accept any service." Article 10 stipulates that, Consumers have the right to fair trading. When purchasing goods or receiving services, consumers have the right to obtain fair trading conditions such as quality assurance, reasonable prices, and accurate measurements, and have the right to refuse forced trading by operators. Article 127 of the General Principles of the Civil Law stipulates that "if there are provisions in the law regarding the protection of data and virtual property on the internet, such provisions shall prevail.

The online game character images, props and other products purchased by consumers have property attributes and are property rights recognized and protected by the General Principles of Civil Law. Due to the virtual nature of online game products, their possession and use are all within the game, and consumers have limited control over purchased products. Online game operators should not use their own advantages to change the actual functions and effects of products purchased by consumers without their consent, in the name of upgrading, optimizing, etc. In practice, some online game operators still require consumers to provide general authorization in service agreements through unilateral format clauses, agreeing to the company's adjustments, updates, or optimizations of any content or constituent elements in the game (including but not limited to characters, game equipment, art design, performance, and related data settings that consumers have purchased or are using), and will not hold the company responsible for any legal liability, This practice deprives consumers of their right to choose, fair trade, and claim compensation, and infringes on their legitimate rights and interests.

If you don't believe the opinions given by the Chinese authorities, then there is no need to discuss the matter.

 

 

To be honest, regarding the modification of this skin, I personally prefer the modified one.

However, it is a mistake for Klei to not notify Chinese players before modifying the skin.

JoeW said they respect Chinese players, but they are not even willing to respect Chinese laws. What a ridiculous and contradictory thing this is.

I have called JoeW multiple times just to ask him if he knows this law and respects it. Because this represents whether he respects Chinese players.

 

 

Forgive me for calling JoeW again. @JoeW

[Dreadle]

3 hours ago, Zeklo said:

Genuinely curious about this.

How would this process usually go?
How is consent determined?
Is consent defined by majority?
If a single consumer refused to consent are things just locked?

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I'm willing to guess there's a lot more semantics to it. Likely in ToS as suggested above.

The legislation primarily focuses on MMO and Gacha games, as modifications to skins or in-game characters within these games can significantly reduce their monetary value (which can be substantial). In the event that consumers perceive such alterations as diminishing the worth of their virtual assets, they have the option to take legal action against the companies in order to recover the money they spent. Therefore, technically speaking, if Klei Entertainment did not provide refunds, they would be in violation of the law. Since they have already offered refunds, they are in compliance, although their actions are still questionable. Nevertheless, even if they were to withhold refunds, it would be unlikely for individual gamers to succeed in a lawsuit against a legal team representing Tencent Corp. And even if they were to win, they would only be entitled to receive the same amount of money (one dollar) spent on the skin.

[sakura snow]

59 minutes ago, Dreadle said:

The legislation primarily focuses on MMO and Gacha games, as modifications to skins or in-game characters within these games can significantly reduce their monetary value (which can be substantial). In the event that consumers perceive such alterations as diminishing the worth of their virtual assets, they have the option to take legal action against the companies in order to recover the money they spent. Therefore, technically speaking, if Klei Entertainment did not provide refunds, they would be in violation of the law. Since they have already offered refunds, they are in compliance, although their actions are still questionable. Nevertheless, even if they were to withhold refunds, it would be unlikely for individual gamers to succeed in a lawsuit against a legal team representing Tencent Corp. And even if they were to win, they would only be entitled to receive the same amount of money (one dollar) spent on the skin.

Firstly, refunds are not in compliance with regulations. According to the law, the modifications should be revoked. For many games, refunds are still an economic loss for players.

 

 

And most importantly, this behavior still forces consumers to make a choice: refund or accept modifications. According to Article 9 of the Consumer Rights Protection Law, consumers have the right to independently choose goods or services. Consumers have the right to independently choose the operators who provide goods or services, choose the variety of goods or service methods, and decide whether to purchase or not to purchase any kind of goods, accept or not to accept any service.

 

Let me give an example of this law: you purchased temporary cat food online, but the merchant oversold it. By the time you arrive, there will be no shortage of emergency cat food. The merchant has offered to exchange you with fresh cat food or a refund, which is an additional service. As a consumer, you can accept the merchant's proposal for a replacement or refund. However, according to the law, you can refuse the merchant's proposal and choose to only demand your own temporary cat food. This is your right, a right granted to you by law.

I know it sounds strange to choose temporary cat food instead of fresh cat food. However, in reality, game manufacturers often give you the choice of choosing "interim cat food" or a refund. This is unfair, so the law does not allow this situation to occur.

Looking back at Klei, players have the right to choose from three options: refund, "interim cat food," and "fresh cat food," rather than just two options.

Regarding the lawsuit you mentioned, I have to say that if Klei recklessly infringes on the interests of players with the idea that they cannot defeat them in court, it is disappointing and regrettable. JoeW, do you really think so? I don't want to hear that sad reply. @JoeW

PS: There is no Class action in China, so it is really difficult to win, let alone it is a transnational lawsuit. 

 

 

The fundamental issue with this matter is that Klei does not have a channel to release announcements to Chinese players. If Klei does not make any changes at this point, then according to the law, every modification made by Klei to paid characters and paid props is against the law. This can be avoided, right?

I do not expect Klei to provide a forum specifically for Chinese players, as doing so may incur significant costs. But I hope Klei can publish their announcements on active forums for Chinese players, whether it's version updates or skin modifications. This is the basic respect, whether it is for the law or players. And this operation is not too difficult, I think it is a reasonable requirement.

If Klei had done this earlier, there might not have been this incident at all.

[Dreadle]

20 minutes ago, sakura snow said:

.....

Innocent until proven guilty. At present, everything remains hypothetical without expert opinions. Even in real cases, it is impossible to predict whether the court would mandate companies to either return the in-game item or provide monetary compensation. Moreover, the value of the item in question is too low - less than one dollar, and it is unclear whether the alteration of the item is objectively superior or inferior, making it difficult to determine if they violate the law in the first place.

[Popian]

10 hours ago, sakura snow said:

If you don't believe the opinions given by the Chinese authorities, then there is no need to discuss the matter.

I agree with the CCA's recommendations based on their interpretation of the law.

You have made the following assertions that all of your arguments are based on:

On 7/1/2023 at 11:35 AM, sakura snow said:

Klei's modification of this skin violates Articles 9 and 10 of China's Consumer Rights Protection Law.

The modification of this skin is an illegal act.

It follows to interpret the laws themselves to see whether that is the case, which is why you should get a lawyer if it is that important to you.