Making the new gear fun (without power creep)

[cybers2001]

It's clear that Klei doesn't want the new gear to be straight upgrades to existing gear, which is honestly fine with me, but I think there's a lot of room for creativity in utility added to the gear, without it being overbearing to the meta. For example.

Brightshade helm: Visibility in storms/miasma. This buff already exists. It does replace desert goggles, but those were never mass produced in the first place. Unlike the helm, the goggles can be repaired, and doesn't lose durability due to combat. Desert goggles also provide heat resistance, and a small sanity boost, unlike the helm.

Other ideas...

Brightshade armor: Small light radius. Competes with magiluminesence, but loses the movement speed bonus.

Void cowl: Reduced aggro range. Would work similarly to WX's interaction with clockworks. Would have no effect on mobs that are already aggroed, like hound waves.

Void cloak: Dash ability. Similar to Wortox's hop, but at a much shorter range. Would benefit both in mobility and dodging, but it also means you're moving around without a backpack.

In addition to being fun adjustments, they also play into the fantasy of the aesthetic, with the brightshade gear resembling a light-wielding paladin and the void gear resembling a rogue.

[-Variant]

1 minute ago, cybers2001 said:

Brightshade helm: Visibility in storms/miasma

Did you want their already existing visibility in storms/miasma to be buffed? They currently do protect you from both, with Miasma only serving to do minor damage but allows you to walk freely within.

[cybers2001]

5 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Did you want their already existing visibility in storms/miasma to be buffed? They currently do protect you from both, with Miasma only serving to do minor damage but allows you to walk freely within.

That's why I said "This buff already exists."

[Baark0]

1 hour ago, -Variant said:

Did you want their already existing visibility in storms/miasma to be buffed? They currently do protect you from both, with Miasma only serving to do minor damage but allows you to walk freely within.

The helmet not protecting from miasma damage is so confusing to me, you really mean to tell me a helmet made of lunar materials doesn't protect you any better than generic goggles? It also makes sense from a progression stand point, you're able to use the regular goggles before killing cc but it damages you, and after you kill cc you get the better equipment that actually protects you.

[BB Marioni]

more quirks instead of stronger equipment makes more sense for a survival game like DST. It's not an rpg game where you are meant to level up, beat stronger enemies and get better gear. It's way more fun if each equipment has its own advantage, against certain elements of the game. 

[Mike23Ua]

In a game like DST- I don’t really care one way or another.

Buff the Weapons, Buff the Armor, give them funny effects, at the end of the day it doesn’t matter because most of the games combat is still going to boil down to hit the maximum amount of times, dodge a (usually slow) attack, rinse repeat till whatever is in front of you is dead. 
 

It doesn’t matter if your using a 31 damage spear, or a 68 damage Brightshade Sword, at the end of the day as long as you can hit & avoid being hit- it’s all the same.

Im playing a game on Xbox Gamepass I believe it’s called Erudien Chronicles Rising or something- Eitherway the combat in this game is fun because it pairs groups of enemies so their attacks blend well together.

Imagine if say for example- Klei adds an enemy that fires a Lazer at you, (feastclops does this by the way..) Alone, It’s not that Dangerous- BUT if Klei also added a mob that’s attacks froze or roots you in place hindering or preventing movement such as Deerclops baby yetis throwing snowballs at you Awww <3

then getting caught by that lazer just became more likely/deadly, It becomes less of a predictable game of hit a few times/dodge/hit again-

I would love to see this games combat (and probably cooking too) get the same kind of MASSIVE Overhauls that Farming, Fishing & Seafaring have received.

[Evelo]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:28 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I would love to see this games combat (and probably cooking too) get the same kind of MASSIVE Overhauls that Farming, Fishing & Seafaring have received.

Yes, yes 1000x yes. (Also balancing, I'd like raid bosses to be less... annoying or possible without massive cheese as solo)

[Antynomity]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

Yes, yes 1000x yes. (Also balancing, I'd like raid bosses to be less... annoying or possible without massive cheese as solo)

They are possible without massive cheese. Git Gud it's a challenge you're supposed to adapt to and overcome afterall, so do that.

[Wardin25]

It'd be cool if Klei borrowed some ideas from Uncomprimising Mode, with the Shard-Scale Armor and its Moon glass aura, the Gloomberry Jam with the Shadow Depth Worms summoning, and the Veteran's Curse special weapons

Edit: also  something similar to the Shadow Crown feels like it should be in the game already

[Mike23Ua]

7 hours ago, yourAnty said:

They are possible without massive cheese. Git Gud it's a challenge you're supposed to adapt to and overcome afterall, so do that.

Actually… the game is EASIER when you add more players when it should be Harder.

Listen: I play games like Borderlands, Dead Island, Killing Floor 2 & Gotham Knights- What do all these games have in Common??

The More Players that Join the lobby a notification pops up something along the lines of “Player X has Joined, the creatures of the world have grown Stronger!” And when Player X leaves “Player X has disconnected, the creatures of the world have gotten weaker!”

WHY is DST the exception to this golden rule of Multiplayer Drop-In, Drop Out Co-op games?

Even TMNT Shedders Revenge Scaled with players- DST DOES NOT.

And in Fact- If you take multiple players to fight Dragonfly it has an actual designed mechanic to where if multiple players are attacking it, it “Faints” allowing you to get in a bunch of EXTRA completely free Damage.

Now you can tell people to “Git Gud” all you’d like- but that doesn’t change the fact that DST doesn’t scale in difficulty when players Drop-In/Out.

The game is unfair when playing Solo, like your intentionally stacking the odds against yourself, that’s GREAT if your into that sort of crap… but for everyone who’s NOT it locks them out of experiencing boss & other content they may otherwise actually enjoy if it was more “Fair”

Fair meaning that- It Scales and Becomes Harder the more players are in the game, and becomes more “Solo Friendly” when they’re not.

DST was Klei’s first attempt at a multiplayer Dont Starve game so I have to cut them a little slack here & there- But surely these devs have played other multiplayer Drop-In/Drop-Out co-op games right???

I’m expecting at some point the game will get QoL changes that make things A: Easier to enjoy Solo, & B: Harder to Do in a group.

Because in my Opinion when you bring more players to fight Dragonfly she shouldn’t “Faint” so they get free damage.

She should pull something straight out of Borderlands and instead power up, and/or summon more powerful minions.

[gamehun20]

37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually… the game is EASIER when you add more players when it should be Harder.

Listen: I play games like Borderlands, Dead Island, Killing Floor 2 & Gotham Knights- What do all these games have in Common??

The More Players that Join the lobby a notification pops up something along the lines of “Player X has Joined, the creatures of the world have grown Stronger!” And when Player X leaves “Player X has disconnected, the creatures of the world have gotten weaker!”

WHY is DST the exception to this golden rule of Multiplayer Drop-In, Drop Out Co-op games?

Even TMNT Shedders Revenge Scaled with players- DST DOES NOT.

And in Fact- If you take multiple players to fight Dragonfly it has an actual designed mechanic to where if multiple players are attacking it, it “Faints” allowing you to get in a bunch of EXTRA completely free Damage.

Now you can tell people to “Git Gud” all you’d like- but that doesn’t change the fact that DST doesn’t scale in difficulty when players Drop-In/Out.

The game is unfair when playing Solo, like your intentionally stacking the odds against yourself, that’s GREAT if your into that sort of crap… but for everyone who’s NOT it locks them out of experiencing boss & other content they may otherwise actually enjoy if it was more “Fair”

Fair meaning that- It Scales and Becomes Harder the more players are in the game, and becomes more “Solo Friendly” when they’re not.

DST was Klei’s first attempt at a multiplayer Dont Starve game so I have to cut them a little slack here & there- But surely these devs have played other multiplayer Drop-In/Drop-Out co-op games right???

I’m expecting at some point the game will get QoL changes that make things A: Easier to enjoy Solo, & B: Harder to Do in a group.

Because in my Opinion when you bring more players to fight Dragonfly she shouldn’t “Faint” so they get free damage.

She should pull something straight out of Borderlands and instead power up, and/or summon more powerful minions.

Yeah i get that you play 5 different games all day and like to compare dst to vastly different games dragonfly's faint isn't design as oh more people are fighting it let's let them have free hits it's because they reached the damage threshold which you can reach quite easily with only one player too not every god damn game has to have the exact mechanics drop in and drop out doesn't work in a game like don't starve where you have to chip down the health of big monsters what because you are playing a server with 6 people toadstools attacks should do 6x damage and the boss have 6x time health? like people aren't already complaining about nonsense health pools. It's a game where get good is the main core of the game you play and apply your smarts to do better when you fight not just get another higher damage shotgun that decimates 3 enemies next to you (also powerup you say? it's called the rage mode it does more damage and lights things on fire but everyone uses panflute so the fight doesn't become a manure fest because the boss is also fire ticking you and hitting like brick outhouse)

[Pet Rock]

1 hour ago, gamehun20 said:

I ain't quoting allat

Health scaling isn't just a thing in one of the games they play. It's a widely used mechanic in general game design to make the game fun to play for everyone.

Now obviously you can't just drag and drop the same exact mechanic from a different game into dst and it would have to be adapted. Saying you generally want health scaling in a game doesn't automatically mean you want ridiculous solo fights to be ridiculous multiplayer. It was a general idea.

Imo health scaling is a good idea but would be hard to implement in dst since players can dynamically join and exit fights. Besides, bosses should logically adapt to players instead of changing their health. A better way to add a scaling mechanic to the game would be damage resistance/attack scaling. Having separate mechanics for each boss also fits dst's essence more. Note that severely increasing the fight's difficulty should also increase the rewards as to not waste resources and still incentivize multiplayer gameplay.

Toadstool could have around 20000 base health but use a protective move if many players are around (damage resistance+spore rain?) as if it was panicking.

Dragonfly could be locked in enraged mode if too many players are near her (maybe lower the enraged damage a bit though).

Bee queen could summon only a few bees periodically and most of them for each phase and also do an attack that sends ewecus-goo-style honey splatters from the sky to make the fight possible without multiplayer or tanking but still keep it as a raid boss. (Also her kiting pattern is basically unavoidable)

Pirate raids aren't a boss but maybe they could ignore single player boats entirely as they are either merciful or don't think there's enough loot onboard.

The possibilities are endless.

However, I don't think everything should be harder with more players as this is don't starve TOGETHER after all, but bosses should be easier than they currently are solo, especially for bosses that are vital to progression.

 

Also, it's hard to understand your text and I recommend using periods.

Oop Mike commented hope my info isn't repetitive.

35 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Weapons & Gear CAN be “Power Creep” as in doing higher damage, being better than other weapons and gear..

BUT- in the games current form it can not be

 

35 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

we have to worry about armor and weapons being “power creep” BECAUSE DST doesn’t have these kind of core Multiplayer changes.

Don't these statements contradict each other? Maybe you meant to say we don't have to worry but still confusing.

[jrthekidRS]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You vastly missed my point, so let me attempt to steer this thread back on topic- Weapons & Gear CAN be “Power Creep” as in doing higher damage, being better than other weapons and gear..

BUT- in the games current form it can not be, because and as I said: More Players = Game Gets Easier.

Now because you DONT play the other games I just listed off let me explain to you what adding more players actually does in a game like State of Decay 2.

When playing ALONE Zombies will only melee hit you and won’t be able to deal a lot of damage, they’re also won’t be as many enemies on screen at any given time.

But if you Play SoD 2 in Multiplayer then the Zombies get a powerful devastating new attack that snatches up a player- and if not rescued by their partner in a certain timeframe- Instantly kills them.

This makes the game Playable Singleplayer without being Unfair, and encourages more Team Work when playing Multiplayer so things don’t become Too Easy.

Playing Gotham Knights? Went to a Criminal Hideout with 6 enemies that need to be stealth takedown but the co-op player shows up at the same Crime Scene? The game responds by letting the NPCs cry out “Hey I think I saw another one of those Masked Freaks, we need back up in here!” Then Suddenly the 6 enemies you would’ve fought alone gets several nearby doors to open up and reinforcements pour out to accommodate for more than one player being in the Area.

DST is Just As much of a Drop In/Drop Out Co-op game as SOD or Gotham Knights so why doesn’t DST actually ACCOMMODATE itself for more/less players?

we have to worry about armor and weapons being “power creep” BECAUSE DST doesn’t have these kind of core Multiplayer changes.

I can say that fighting off a pirate raid intended to be fought by multiple players certainly isn’t fun, but had those raids scaled to provide decent difficulty based on the amount of players on board the vessel- Pirate Raids could’ve been my favorite “Hostile” mob on the Ocean.

Instead.. we have to ask for more powerful gear & weapons.. then Question if older gear and weapons are being outdated by power creep.

TL:DR- IF Brightshades were treated like SOD 2 Zombies- When more players are nearby fighting them, they can grab your feet and hold you root you in place needing rescue from the other nearby players, which coincidentally also leaves the BS vulnerable to attack, but when fighting them alone.. the Plants won’t ever use this Multiplayer tactic against you.

Just because DST was released in 2015 doesn’t mean that Klei shouldn’t be thinking up ways to make it a better more accessible game in 2023.

But DST isn't those games. You cannot add the same mechanics from those games into Don't Starve and expect it to work.

Adding new moves to bosses or increasing stats in DST isn't that simple. The issue of the problematic raid bosses is the whole fight itself and how it plays out. It would probably be better to rework the bosses instead of cramming in some new moves or scaling their stats. Do something like Klaus, where his element attacks are easily dodgeable alone but can cause a lot of chaos with many people.

However, I wouldn't count on any changes anytime soon. The best thing that you can really do is to learn how to defeat these bosses. Mastering these fights gave me hundreds of extra hours worth of playtime. It can be a lot of fun (mostly).

Also, wasn't this thread about power creep?

[Evelo]

11 hours ago, yourAnty said:

They are possible without massive cheese. Git Gud it's a challenge you're supposed to adapt to and overcome afterall, so do that.

Oh I can manage to do it. Just boring is all. Which i think is indicative to the combat in the game. Hold F, dodge, hold F, dodge.

[Dextops]

8 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Oh I can manage to do it. Just boring is all. Which i think is indicative to the combat in the game. Hold F, dodge, hold F, dodge.

i think it's not the base of combat, it's that the bosses attacks are boring. A boss like CC and AFW have a variety of attacks and they aren't just you following a simple kiting pattern and that's what makes them cool bosses. Changing the bosses to be more unique and fun would do loads of help instead of being damage sponges.

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, Dextops said:

i think it's not the base of combat, it's that the bosses attacks are boring. A boss like CC and AFW have a variety of attacks and they aren't just you following a simple kiting pattern and that's what makes them cool bosses. Changing the bosses to be more unique and fun would do loads of help instead of being damage sponges.

Well CC is pretty boring. AFW isn't boring but only because you're too stressed with juggling 5 items for 3 mechanics all at the same time. AFW was designed specifically for multiplayer and trying to do multiple tasks at once, while possible is real difficult.
Meanwhile CC is just. Smack, ope run away. smack, ope run away, next phase. smack, ope run away for longer, smack, ope run out of range, smack. The last phase is the most interesting because there are two types of laser attacks and dodging them requires standing in positions (which I still suck at doing so I get blasted constantly) and breaking the sleep crystals, otherwise it's more smack, ope run away from swirly aoe, smack, ope run away.

Granted I am not saying the combat is bad, just simple. The game was built with survival being the forefront of the game, not combat. Having a combat overhaul might be so big that it changes the fundamental idea of the game which is kind of spooky. I want a combat overhaul but I am afraid of the outcome.

[Antynomity]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually… the game is EASIER when you add more players when it should be Harder.

Listen: I play games like Borderlands, Dead Island, Killing Floor 2 & Gotham Knights- What do all these games have in Common??

The More Players that Join the lobby a notification pops up something along the lines of “Player X has Joined, the creatures of the world have grown Stronger!” And when Player X leaves “Player X has disconnected, the creatures of the world have gotten weaker!”

WHY is DST the exception to this golden rule of Multiplayer Drop-In, Drop Out Co-op games?

Even TMNT Shedders Revenge Scaled with players- DST DOES NOT.

And in Fact- If you take multiple players to fight Dragonfly it has an actual designed mechanic to where if multiple players are attacking it, it “Faints” allowing you to get in a bunch of EXTRA completely free Damage.

Now you can tell people to “Git Gud” all you’d like- but that doesn’t change the fact that DST doesn’t scale in difficulty when players Drop-In/Out.

The game is unfair when playing Solo, like your intentionally stacking the odds against yourself, that’s GREAT if your into that sort of crap… but for everyone who’s NOT it locks them out of experiencing boss & other content they may otherwise actually enjoy if it was more “Fair”

Fair meaning that- It Scales and Becomes Harder the more players are in the game, and becomes more “Solo Friendly” when they’re not.

DST was Klei’s first attempt at a multiplayer Dont Starve game so I have to cut them a little slack here & there- But surely these devs have played other multiplayer Drop-In/Drop-Out co-op games right???

I’m expecting at some point the game will get QoL changes that make things A: Easier to enjoy Solo, & B: Harder to Do in a group.

Because in my Opinion when you bring more players to fight Dragonfly she shouldn’t “Faint” so they get free damage.

She should pull something straight out of Borderlands and instead power up, and/or summon more powerful minions.

Still, git gud.

[Frashaw27]

I think that, personally, scaling isn't really something that would benefit don't starve together. There's several different ways this could be done, and I don't think anyone of them would actually fix the players are having with the fights. Add more damage? You've now inflated both the need for your group to do ruins content earlier then wanted so you don't get massacred with the common log suit and football helmet, but have also significantly increased the need for healing food.  Add resistance to attacks? I feel this solution only exasperates the problems most people have with bosses, they have too much health. Adding resistance willy nilly doesn't fix that issue, it just makes you feel like your wasting time if you bring along your friends and brings us back to the previously stated issue of inherently gatelocking people into using weapons like dark swords and glass cutters, not because they want to, but because they have to so that they aren't dealing near minutia of damage. Also puts more heavy leverage on weapon costs since weapons can already stock up to be pretty expensive, meaning you have to spend significantly more time grinding out boards/living logs/whatever you need to have enough weapons to just finish the fight. While a Hambat can alleviate this with it's unlimited durability, it's not ideal as it's damage decays, meaning the fight only takes even longer. Add even more Hp? Congrats, you've solved nothing! As we have seen that actually nobody alive thinks adding a significant amount of red gems to Crab King is a good idea, adding more hp to balance out bosses is a very weak idea and doesn't solve anything, just makes the prep longer, and that's the biggest problem with a scaling system, it adds so much more to the need preparations of an already prep heavy game.

Having more people should allow you to have an easier time as you're actively participating with your friends, doing the thing the game wants you to do, but it gets hard to justify that with the simple fact that you might be having a rougher time if the person you bring along doesn't pull their weight, a problem already seen right now but still is easier to deal with because you aren't having a more challenging fight due to the other persons existence, making it easier to pick up their slack. While I'm not saying that there's nothing that can be done to solve this, just making bosses have high stats wouldn't work in this game because it would actively devalue teamwork or put much more stress on everyone being at the exact same level in strength, less you start feeling the effects of someone not knowing 100% the perfect rhythm to dodge dragon fly's swipes. I would say that bosses gaining new behaviors would be the best way to do this but can also be not worth it to fight with multiple people if not done very well. People praise Klaus for their spell attack scaling with the players, but I feel that makes it less worth to fight with multiple players because your now suddenly signifcantly reducing the paths you can take, which while difficult is a bit not worth to me. The game is in need of a few rebalancings/tunings for certain bosses, but i don't think scaling based off of players will be that successful, in my opinion.

[Pet Rock]

4 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

Snip

You're making all of these statements under the assumption that bosses that are already designed for multiplayer increase their stats with multiple people. If scaling would be added to the game they'd nerf bosses for single player instead to make them possible. Reducing a bosses health and adding attack resistance in multiplayer will result in roughly the same health pool as it was before. Scaling damage isn't a good idea but scaling attacks is. This would be thematically fitting as bosses would pull out their strongest weapons when they see severe threats. Now obviously harder fights should have more loot. Dragonfly achieves this well but lacks on the risky side of things.

If you didn't you should read my other text on it

Spoiler

Imo health scaling is a good idea but would be hard to implement in dst since players can dynamically join and exit fights. Besides, bosses should logically adapt to players instead of changing their health. A better way to add a scaling mechanic to the game would be damage resistance/attack scaling. Having separate mechanics for each boss also fits dst's essence more. Note that severely increasing the fight's difficulty should also increase the rewards as to not waste resources and still incentivize multiplayer gameplay.

 

Toadstool could have around 20000 base health but use a protective move if many players are around (damage resistance+spore rain?) as if it was panicking.

 

Dragonfly could be locked in enraged mode if too many players are near her (maybe lower the enraged damage a bit though).

 

Bee queen could summon only a few bees periodically and most of them for each phase and also do an attack that sends ewecus-goo-style honey splatters from the sky to make the fight possible without multiplayer or tanking but still keep it as a raid boss. (Also her kiting pattern is basically unavoidable)

 

Pirate raids aren't a boss but maybe they could ignore single player boats entirely as they are either merciful or don't think there's enough loot onboard.

 

The possibilities are endless.

 

However, I don't think everything should be harder with more players as this is don't starve TOGETHER after all, but bosses should be easier than they currently are solo, especially for bosses that are vital to progression.

 

[chirsg]

Woodie deserves 100% visibility in moonstorms when in any animal form. I'd even argue he should heal HP when in them.
His power comes from the moon yet it gives him nothing but grief. 

Inb4 curse.
 

On 6/18/2023 at 3:40 AM, cybers2001 said:

Void cloak: Dash ability. Similar to Wortox's hop, but at a much shorter range. Would benefit both in mobility and dodging, but it also means you're moving around without a backpack.

 

i like it. very i like.
But imagine how cheeky it would be if you could teleport with lazy explorer without consuming a charge.

[Pet Rock]

Chirsg's comment reminded me I wanted to comment on the dash ability. I love this idea and I think it synergizes well with the aggressive playstyle the armor seems to incentivize.

It would be cool if it worked by double tapping a directional key to dash in said direction. This would make it different from the other teleportation, fit the "dash" title, result in a cool animation, and be more intuitive for combat.

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

But imagine how cheeky it would be if you could teleport with lazy explorer without consuming a charge.

Could make it where you can't pass through walls or impassible terrain. Hollow Knight's shade cloak comes to mind.

But yeah, my point is to not have these items just render everything else obsolete. I like the idea of basic gear being a cost-effective preference when you just need raw stats, but we could have something similar to Diablo, where more expensive gear can effectively change a character's playstyle.

[Frashaw27]

5 hours ago, Pet Rock said:

If you didn't you should read my other text on it

I did read it before, I just didn't agree with it. What you seemed to miss from my post is that by adding player scaling stats, it would be a detriment as it would only make you feel like your fight solo, but now you feel the impact of someone not being as skilled as you or vice virsa. If I bring people with me to a fight, I want to feel like the boss is easier to defeat because we're both doing good, not be have neutral feelings about someone else being there, and not feel angry that they don't know how to fight the boss like I do.

I touched on scaling attacks, but that feels dubious to me. Like when I mentioned Klaus, the few times I've fought him with other people (or with a thulecite club) it felt like the fight was harder but not because it was harder but because it just added more of the same thing he was already doing. I'm not dismissing the idea, I just think it's disingenuous to not talk about how the one example we have of multi-player scaling just isn't good in my opinion.

While I'm not saying a few bosses don't require the second look at, what I am saying is that just adding scaling isn't the way to balance them. In my opinion, (most) single player bosses are fine as they currently are. They feel tough to beat but also rewarding because you were able to beat them because you learn the stratagey, you got good at the boss fight. That might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I still feel a majority of the fights are already good imo. Fuelweaver is one of my favorite fights because of all the interacting mechanics and how you can counter them, he doesn't need nerfing, he's fine where he is.

[Pet Rock]

59 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

Snip

Yeah the examples we have of scaling in the game aren't the greatest rn. I also agree that most bosses don't really need scaling.

However, bosses that are vital for progression, have giant health pools, and/or have spammy attacks should at least get at least a slight nerf for single player.

Ancient fuel weaver is fine in this regard although his force-field is a bit spammy. The bosses that really need scaling is CrabKing, toadstool, and bee queen. Toadstool is a nightmare to fight solo because of his giant health pool (I heard somewhere it takes like a ds day of holding f with dark swords to kill him) and spammy trees that expand his health pool even more. It is however manageable with weather pains so toadstool doesn't need a nerf that much. Bee queen is basically vital to the lunar side of progression (bundled wrap for moon gleams/infused moon shards) and is almost impossible to fight solo without tanking or using many pan flutes. Crab king is a whole different story. To fight crab king solo you either have to use bees, or use an extremely specific cheaty tactic that involves freezing him. This is definitely not how he was intended to be fought and it would be great if he was remade to be fightable solo. Actually, crab king should get a rework in general.

Some optional bosses are dragonfly (big health pool+basic attacks is boring solo) and antlion (gets decimated multiplayer).

I'd like to add that slightly scaling a boss shouldn't make the game too much harder, considering even a terrible player would still count as ~1.5 times the usual damage. Also, rewards can be increased for multiplayer somehow (like dfly) to warrant the waste of resources and challenge. Without player scaling, progressing through the game solo is impossible without cheese and many Bossfights turn into tank/cheese-fests in single player and snooze-fests in multiplayer.

It's also important to keep in mind that bosses wouldn't just magically adapt in a way that us players find fair. Adding attacks that make sense should come before making a boss completely fair. Adding perfect scaling to every boss isn't very don't starvy imo. It's really impossible to see exactly how scaling would be added until it is.

TLDR: Most bosses don't need scaling but extreme examples (crab king, toadstool, bee queen) should be possible solo without cheese/tanking. Multiplayer can still be incentivized with increased rewards + even bad players contribute to a fight enough to outplay the scaling.

[Mike23Ua]

If DST got a “Dash” Ability I would want that as a basic Fighting Feature, and not something tied exclusively to a Weapon or Wheeler, Wheeler “Dodge” is as close to a “Dash” as the DS Franchise has but a Universal Dash, would allow for Very Cool new Combat Abilities.

Ironically I just got done beating a game called Eriuden Chronicles Rising, and in that game the main playable Character has a “Dash” Ability, BUT the Enemies have their Own Abilities that go hand in hand with this Dash- Particularly the Snow Jelly Monsters, they let out an Icy Spiked Arch of Ice Armor (think a Porcupines quills standing up when in danger) CJ’s Dash Dodge needs to be used with perfect timing, to avoid being hit by this.

I think it would be Unique if DST reworked Ice Hounds to work in the same way, they just release this Icey Spike of protection around themselves that require quick use of the Dash.

But that would mean DST would need a Combat OverHaul.

Tying something as important as a “Dash” to using a specific armor or weapon or *cough cough* Wheeler is a BAD Idea.. which is why I suggest if it gets added at all, it needs to be Universal.

As for as Brightshade gear goes though- Particularly the Glowing Sword and Helmet- I would love to be able to fuel these with Lightbulbs or fireflies so they can actually let off maybe Charged Lightning Rod amounts of light.

For the new Shadow Weapons, I think the new Scythe should have a Cooldown Timer and function like WANDAs Second Chance Watch (meaning you can swipe it over a recently dead players skeleton to Rewind their Death)

Sure this takes away from playing as Wanda just a bit, but most other characters perks are merely early or easier access to items you can obtain IN-Game right??! Wortox’s Soul Hop can eventually be replicated by Lazy Deserter, Walter is just instant Access to Beefalo/Chester.

So with that in Mind- I think something as cool as a Grim Reaper Scythe should TOTALLY be able to revive dead players like WANDAs Second Chance Clocks.