Nyttro Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 they made Wes playable and I hate it. Now he's fun and the uncompromising survival experience isn't quite as challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creatorofswamps Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 It's fun and painful, there was no fun before, just pain and a 5 hp balloon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 I know this is a joke thread but I'll never miss the opportunity to say despite his shortcomings Wes is quite useful in a group even more so if you don't use map based mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncrushed Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 12 hours ago, Mysterious box said: I know this is a joke thread but I'll never miss the opportunity to say despite his shortcomings Wes is quite useful in a group even more so if you don't use map based mods. How is he useful in a group? I haven't played him much at all. I enjoy his company while playing him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Good compared to who? His upsides are still worse than every other character's upsides...... and his downsides are worse than most too..... I think klei should patch the "void walking" bug, this would reintroduce some of the uncompromising survival back. Bugs are the only thing ruining the uncompromising nature of this game. Remember always patch bugs Klei! No matter how big or small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, Gashzer said: Remember always patch bugs Klei! No matter how big or small. No fun allowed guys! If Klei actually fixed all the bugs, exploits and cheese, this game would be literally unplayable. Cough crab king cough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynel Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, Gashzer said: I think klei should patch the "void walking" bug, this would reintroduce some of the uncompromising survival back. Bugs are the only thing ruining the uncompromising nature of this game. Remember always patch bugs Klei! No matter how big or small. This glitch only affects the caves and the only reasonable instance where it would make survival less uncompromising would be in a ruins trip; but armor and knowledge of the nightmare cycle exist so it's more convenient to just take the shortest route. (Not mentioning that the cave shard is optional anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 3 hours ago, Gashzer said: I think klei should patch the "void walking" bug, this would reintroduce some of the uncompromising survival back. Bugs are the only thing ruining the uncompromising nature of this game. Remember always patch bugs Klei! No matter how big or small. Most Klei forum post are imaginable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q42 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Wes main here, this thread (besides the random void walking discussion) looks sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. Before Wes's rework, he didn't have much interesting going for him. All of his downsides were basic number tweaks: Lower stats, higher hunger drain, and lower damage. Also, he has no character quotes and he can make balloons to lower his sanity. The balloons technically can distract mobs, but that's never worked out well for me. After his rework, Wes has a lot more variety in his downsides now. There's still the boring damage multiplier, and for some reason he works slower, but now he freezes faster, overheats faster, lightening strikes him more often, hounds target him more, and he stays groggy for longer and can be put to sleep easier. To be fair, these still are just number tweaks, but they're a lot more interesting than a higher hunger drain. Also, some of these downsides benefit other players besides Wes, such as his hound priority and lightening rod effect. However, they also made the bold choice to give Wes some "perks". He can make some balloon equipment to help him out, but the only balloons I've ever found a use for are the Speedy Balloon and the Party Balloon. Obviously having Speedy Balloons is Wes's biggest "perk", but even that becomes useless on day 21. Party Balloons are pretty unique though; if you want to farm Nightmare Fuel, you can make a bunch of them to lower your sanity. When you're done, you can pop them for most of your sanity back. Of course, this also becomes useless after you get the Bone Helm. In the grand scheme of things, these perks actually barely change gameplay and just make him feel more rewarding to play. Whenever you do something cool using the challenge character's purposefully low impact perks, it feels like you've made use out of a bad situation in a way. I don't think I'm using the right words, but it's cool Now about difficulty... New Wes is definitely harder. His stats were hammered to 75, and always being just a few hits from death makes the game a lot more interesting. 2 Terrorbeaks can whack you at full health, the first breaking your football helmet and the second hitting you armorless, and put you at 15 health. Darkness one shots you, depth worms one shot you, and a lot of things can go wrong quickly. Also, if you're not careful his low hunger can get you caught out in the wilderness and you realize you're about to starve. Also, his increased grogginess makes Celestial Champion a bit more challenging. This is all on top of his low damage, which makes any dangerous situation you have to fight your way out of a bit longer. Yeah, nobody's taking this thread seriously. But I like to talk about Wes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, _zwb said: No fun allowed guys! If Klei actually fixed all the bugs, exploits and cheese, this game would be literally unplayable. Cough crab king cough Or yeno people would play the game properly instead of googling bugged ways to fight bosses lol Cheese's like catapults for bee queen arnt "cheese" or using strider spiders/bee bombs to kill crab king, you are not exploiting anything, you are just prepping well. They are fine but exploiting pathfinding bugs to kill bosses should be patched. How is using bugs fun tho zwb? Guille uses bugs to make world records but them videos arnt impressive they just underline how much bug fixing dst needs. DST is a game were watching people using really old bugs to kill bosses isnt cool or fun to watch... its just sad to see from a 10 year old franchise that these bugs exist after so long. Metroid dread, for example, the skips are fun to watch cause of how fast pace the whole game is. If Guille captured footage doing a boss rush on the nintendo switch then i would be impressed! Dst on console is like a completely different game compared to pc. The game doesnt need to have harder challenges... just fix the bugs that make the current challenges easy, boom! Uncompromising survival is back baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 13 hours ago, Uncrushed said: How is he useful in a group? I haven't played him much at all. I enjoy his company while playing him though. His party balloon's sanity regen scales based on the amount of players nearby giving infinite fast sanity recovery which pairs very well with Wickerbottom, his speedy balloons flare when he lets them go making him really good at scouting and gathering the team, his life vests are useful in as makeshift protection during ocean travel or for quick teleports to land, and his ballon hat prevents lightning strikes in emergencies. His biggest boons are his sanity regen and flaring however. While not on the same level he's basically a sanity wortox without a real resource cost but this also means he also doesn't completely get powercrept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyttro Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, Q42 said: Now about difficulty... New Wes is definitely harder. His stats were hammered to 75 To be fair, even tho i said it's easy to play, i couldn't beat dragonfly due to permanent 15 damage per hit, requiring a pierogi every 6 seconds and 60 000 football helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriaMain Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, Gashzer said: The game doesnt need to have harder challenges... just fix the bugs that make the current challenges easy, boom! Uncompromising survival is back baby! Have you considered just not using said bugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 12 minutes ago, AriaMain said: Have you considered just not using said bugs? On one hand I get the reasoning for wanting to keep bugs but on the other hand bugs can be bad for the devolpment of balance as the bugs can give devs the idea that something is well balanced so if the bug is needed that means the balance isn't going well or the bug should be officially implemented in one way or another if it's reasonable 5 hours ago, _zwb said: No fun allowed guys! If Klei actually fixed all the bugs, exploits and cheese, this game would be literally unplayable. Cough crab king cough Tbf in this scenario there would be a bigger outcry for it to be fixed so it would probably be for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Tbf in this scenario there would be a bigger outcry for it to be fixed so it would probably be for the better. Honestly for the void walk glitch I understand why people wants it fixed, however there is one bug that I wish it was kept as a feature: the flying boat bug. With the flying boat you could literally move anything anywhere. Land stuff into the sea, sea stuff onto the land, move stuff into the sky and stacking objects. It even allowed you to dupe CELESTIAL ALTERS. It simply allows more creative build with those mechanics and late game became less boring, that is, until Klei patched it and the game becomes boring and repetitive after you killed everything again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 hours ago, AriaMain said: Have you considered just not using said bugs? Ok heres an example. Zelda tears of a kingdom is a single player not even a multiplayer game. A bug existed allowing you to dupe items. Nintendo patched it very quickly. Now ask yourself, why did they patch it? Surely taking your logic, nintendo had no reason to patch this bug... people can simply not use it....... or maybe if you want to make a great game or become the best devs you have to hold your game to the highest standards of polish. What standard do you want to hold the Klei devs? To the standards of goat simulator or to the standards of tears of the kingdom? Like ofc klei doesnt have the resources of nintendo but that doesnt mean we should accept bugs or need bugs for dst to be fun. DST is a very unique survival experience, its great but can be so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriaMain Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 20 minutes ago, Gashzer said: Ok heres an example. Zelda tears of a kingdom is a single player not even a multiplayer game. A bug existed allowing you to dupe items. Nintendo patched it very quickly. Now ask yourself, why did they patch it? Surely taking your logic, nintendo had no to reason to patch this bug... people can simply not use it....... or maybe if you want to make a great game or become the best devs you have to hold your game to the highest standards of polish. What standard do you want to hold the Klei devs? To the standards of goat simulator or to the standards of tears of the kingdom? Like ofc klei doesnt have the resources of nintendo but that doesnt mean we should accept bugs or need bugs for dst to be fun. DST is a very unique survival experience, its great but can be so much better Oh i understand, bugs like these that breaks the point of the game's balance definitely needs to be fixed. My view for using bugs for self-imposed challenges is that they're very individual, some people abuse bugs to rush through the game, others like to implement their own limits (to not abuse cheese or bugs for example), i'm not saying that Klei would ruin the game if they decide to fix the "fun" bugs but a portion of the playerbase would definitely be disapointed, so Klei is at the awkward position here. But yeah, the game still has a great experience in terms of challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BezKa Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, Gashzer said: highest standards of polish. Polish people have no standards. Have you seen our country? Also Wes is very fun, especially when your friend group has their favourite balloon shapes so you go insane making them until you get the ones and they go "thank you!!" and carry them everywhere until they break and come back sobbing asking you for another one. I hope we get more shapes someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncrushed Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 3 hours ago, Nyttro said: i couldn't beat dragonfly due to permanent 15 damage per hit, requiring a pierogi every 6 seconds and 60 000 football helmets. LOL! After 10-20 hours of practice with Walter v. Dfly, someone viewing my twitch stream told me to use gunpowder. I start with at least a stack of 40, plus maybe another 10-20. You could start with more, but this is how to make do with that much (which is a lot of work to make). Before ever hitting D'fly, freeze her. OK to take some hits leading her to prepared fighting area. ASAP, drop 7 gunpowder while touching her, light pile, and run around to her other side so you're still next to her, but away from the gunpowder. After explosion, pummel until she goes to spawn When she returns, repeat, but it will take 8 (or 9) gunpowder each subsequent time, which lets you do this maybe 5x total. Also, the more often you put her to sleep, the shorter she naps, so save the pan flute for calming the rage. After the last rage, it's OK to alternate sleep and freezing. It's not fun exactly, but I think if Walter could do it, Wes probably can too. The tentacles from the Thulecite club are few and far between, but should deal full damage as Wes, making this a slightly better weapon for the periods of tanking D'fly than the Darksword. You'll probably need 3 clubs for the fight. Sadly, wetness doesn't work on D'fly, so no Morning Star for the pummeling. As Walter, I went through so much armor that it wouldn't fit in inventory. I ended up bringing the materials to the fight and building more each time she went to spawn: 18-35 marble slabs, 6-10 pig skin, 12-20 rope, depending on the technique I used and how well I did it. Plus food worth 800 pts Sanity and 500 pts Healing and 2 Dwarf Stars for light. Plus 40 stone wall segments for the setup. There are several wall configurations that work. Walling yourself in is the least finicky and you can make a second enclosure in case she enrages and destroys the first one. I expect walling the individual lava pools in is superior because if she breaks one, the others remain. The one long wall works, but you still have to deal with the occasional lavae, which may be too much for Wes. An ice staff might be the perfect tool for the occasional Lavae: kills them at a distance (though they still burst into flames when they thaw and die). Bunnymen were better than Pigs, but both were essentially disasters. Something goes wrong somewhere, they start hopping around on fire igniting everything they touch, attacking her where you don't want her enraging, and it all goes to hell, often badly enough to be funny. Treeguards and spiders were useless. I don't think I tried bees, but there's a lot to be said for having control of this fight, and you don't get that with allied mobs. Anyway, good luck. Let me know if you get her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Wes was the hard character and he's still hard. He kept his identity, unlike Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 5/31/2023 at 11:25 AM, Gashzer said: Or yeno people would play the game properly instead of googling bugged ways to fight bosses lol Cheese's like catapults for bee queen arnt "cheese" or using strider spiders/bee bombs to kill crab king, you are not exploiting anything, you are just prepping well. They are fine but exploiting pathfinding bugs to kill bosses should be patched. How is using bugs fun tho zwb? Guille uses bugs to make world records but them videos arnt impressive they just underline how much bug fixing dst needs. DST is a game were watching people using really old bugs to kill bosses isnt cool or fun to watch... its just sad to see from a 10 year old franchise that these bugs exist after so long. Metroid dread, for example, the skips are fun to watch cause of how fast pace the whole game is. If Guille captured footage doing a boss rush on the nintendo switch then i would be impressed! Dst on console is like a completely different game compared to pc. The game doesnt need to have harder challenges... just fix the bugs that make the current challenges easy, boom! Uncompromising survival is back baby! nobody's holding you at gunpoint to watch my videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthanTheMime Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 5/31/2023 at 8:49 AM, Q42 said: Wes main here, this thread (besides the random void walking discussion) looks sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. Before Wes's rework, he didn't have much interesting going for him. All of his downsides were basic number tweaks: Lower stats, higher hunger drain, and lower damage. Also, he has no character quotes and he can make balloons to lower his sanity. The balloons technically can distract mobs, but that's never worked out well for me. After his rework, Wes has a lot more variety in his downsides now. There's still the boring damage multiplier, and for some reason he works slower, but now he freezes faster, overheats faster, lightening strikes him more often, hounds target him more, and he stays groggy for longer and can be put to sleep easier. To be fair, these still are just number tweaks, but they're a lot more interesting than a higher hunger drain. Also, some of these downsides benefit other players besides Wes, such as his hound priority and lightening rod effect. However, they also made the bold choice to give Wes some "perks". He can make some balloon equipment to help him out, but the only balloons I've ever found a use for are the Speedy Balloon and the Party Balloon. Obviously having Speedy Balloons is Wes's biggest "perk", but even that becomes useless on day 21. Party Balloons are pretty unique though; if you want to farm Nightmare Fuel, you can make a bunch of them to lower your sanity. When you're done, you can pop them for most of your sanity back. Of course, this also becomes useless after you get the Bone Helm. In the grand scheme of things, these perks actually barely change gameplay and just make him feel more rewarding to play. Whenever you do something cool using the challenge character's purposefully low impact perks, it feels like you've made use out of a bad situation in a way. I don't think I'm using the right words, but it's cool Now about difficulty... New Wes is definitely harder. His stats were hammered to 75, and always being just a few hits from death makes the game a lot more interesting. 2 Terrorbeaks can whack you at full health, the first breaking your football helmet and the second hitting you armorless, and put you at 15 health. Darkness one shots you, depth worms one shot you, and a lot of things can go wrong quickly. Also, if you're not careful his low hunger can get you caught out in the wilderness and you realize you're about to starve. Also, his increased grogginess makes Celestial Champion a bit more challenging. This is all on top of his low damage, which makes any dangerous situation you have to fight your way out of a bit longer. Yeah, nobody's taking this thread seriously. But I like to talk about Wes. ive pretty much always mained wes. i started playing him way back in singleplayer and i never really got off the train. when DST came out my worlds were usually pretty short-lived, but dealing with wes' downsides always made me feel like i was getting a little more out of each session. he's an awesome character and i've always really enjoyed his gimmicks, especially post-rework. i definitely hear you on him being a rewarding character--it's fun to live life on the edge, and any victory is sweeter when it belongs to wes also he has the coolest skins soo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyttro Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2023 at 6:58 AM, Cheggf said: He kept his identity, unlike Wilson. I would have to disagree to an extent. Wilson kept his beard, wes lost his role as "the one who dies first" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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