Ocean Feedback Thread

[Antynomity]

This is a place for one, for all.
To post their feedback for the ocean's galore!
Be mad or without much spite you shall spout.
Make this post a wall, and let's see if it withstands.

(Have fun everyone)

[Dextops]

Hot take: I think the ocean is pretty unfinished and bad

[Brago-sama]

Part of me feels they added fishing bc they saw its fun in a bunch of other games but they forgot to make the reward part worthwhile.

I aint fishing for 10 minutes straight for maybe 8 popcorn and 1 big meat no matter how fun it is. I got a hunger/sanity/health bar, seasons and a whole heap of other problems that stop me from enjoying the calmnes tbh. I dont think it belongs in a game like this

[GrapeVruit]

Recently I've been trying to get out on the ocean in one of solo worlds, as surviving is pretty manageable and I'm getting tired of the normal gameplay loop, and so far I don't think it's all too bad.

Fishing, while not being mandatory, is a fun activity to do, trying to pick out the right lures for a certain time of day or season, as well as giving me ingredients for fish tacos! Are they're better options out there? Yes 100% But sometimes you wanna make something else than the tride and true Bacon & Eggs and Meatballs.

The salt box is a pretty handy structure that seems to preserve my raw ingredients way longer than in a ice box, and if I continually make trips to mine salt they may last indefinitely. And speaking on salt formations the cookie cutters that spawn there have to be one of the best meat sources in the game. They're easy to kill, spawn frequently, and theirs usually a lot of them. I haven't tried make a boat base but these may be my go to meat source when I don't feel like Fishing.

And on the topic of food, the waterlogged biome has to be a food haven with how much you can get from it. With 6 leafy meat from the gators, figs from the trees, and monster meat from the spiders, it's a place you'll never go hungry. 

While there's still stuff I've yet to try, so far I think the ocean has some pretty solid stuff to warrant going out on sea. 

[goodguythatguy]

I stay away from the Ocean as much as possible. It's my least favorite place to be. I feel little sense of control of the boat. I feel like a fish out of water. Overwhelmed, Flustered, Trapped, Despair, Depression, Violent Outbursts. Need therapy, send help. 

I recently installed a Mod called "Ship Control", which enables me to operate the boat more effectively with my Controller. One button for Mast, one for Steering Wheel and one for Anchor. Still, the Ocean be scary AF. 

[Mike23Ua]

Okay so something we need to address is that to me any content that requires using a boat to get to and experience is considered Ocean Content for me.

this is the way Shipwrecked was, you didn’t spend 24/7 out at sea you actually sailed from land mass to land mass gathering resources you’d need to repair your boat and survive a bit longer. Or if need be, build a new one.

Yeah we’re opening THAT can of Worms.. 

Okay for starters small islands with literally nothing on them at all is completely pointless.. the ONLY thing those small areas with a dead sea fish on or two is good for is building you a small base on and that’s it..

Things like WaterLogged feel far too tiny to be really spectacular, if the biome was about 4 times it’s size and I needed to carefully waddle through it avoiding striders and grass gators it would feel a lot more unique I think.

Moon Quay Great Concept with cool craftables, but absolutely horrible execution, whoever thought it was a good idea to let monkeys that rob you blind endlessly spawn out of a portal onto a tiny island with little room to move around on.. that developer was pure evil. Moon Quay should be the size of one of the mainland biomes, like a bigger monkey island out there..

Lunar Island- I don’t have much bad to say about this one.. it’s got plenty of unique resources, some cool mobs, a puzzle, a boss fight, A land mass large enough to walk about on and explore.. it’s pretty great.

SeaStacks, hate them.. they can be removed from the game tomorrow and I won’t miss them.

Salt Formations, salt and salt box are fun but cookie cutters are annoying and not fun, they respawn far too frequently, and have nasty stun lock if multiple hit your boat at once.

What I would like for Klei to take the content that’s present within the game and allow it to generate differently.. example: instead of seaweeds all being piled in one area like someone just dumped a pile of salt on their plate, it needs to be sprinkled about evenly as if decorating a birthday cake.

I’m personally hoping Klei has plans to add another Lunar Island sized update out there.

Oh I forgot to touch on something important: in Shipwrecked there was usually a way to gather materials to craft a new vessel so you weren’t always STRANDED.

For example if you built a boat out of Wood but ended up on a island that has no wood you could build a Bamboo boat with bamboo sticks to get back out to sea.

In DST.. if you smash your boat and it leaks when your out on say Pearls Island, or one of the various islands with little to nothing on them, tough luck your just stuck out there till you die. GG!

Klei make it so even if your NOT yet friends with Pearl she will give you a boat just to get the heck up off her island.

I believe that because Klei did NOT design shipwrecked and it was instead developed in partnership with (Kappy? I think..) that Klei devs are missing some of the vitals that made Shipwrecked enjoyable, that coincidentally makes DST sailing miserable- one such occasion is the above mentioned getting stranded somewhere with no resources to gather to build a new boat.

Which can EASILY be fixed if Klei added more than just the two types of boats we got right now or made Grass/Twig/Wood resources more available across the ocean and it’s various islands.

I personally wouldn’t mind a raft made of Monkeytail Reeds and a port of Shipwreckeds Bamboo.

[firoborn]

I hate the ocean content so much it used to be a fun chill experience even with the sea stacks, going into the ocean with a cramped boat and some lures to fish was so comfy but they had to add wavey Jones and then the time wasting shark and then the monkey raids and the ocean is still empty but now you get jumpscared half the time. Instead of adding random mobs or biomes they should add natural fenomenal like waves, storms and currents the ocean needs to change with the seasons just like the mainland it won't fix it but it would be better than adding more annoying mobs to the ocean and also get rid of seastacks 

[goodguythatguy]

40 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Moon Quay Great Concept with cool craftables, but absolutely horrible execution, whoever thought it was a good idea to let monkeys that rob you blind endlessly spawn out of a portal onto a tiny island with little room to move around on.. that developer was pure evil. Moon Quay should be the size of one of the mainland biomes, like a bigger monkey island out there..

Once I got all the Monkey Huts Walled in, and built a 3 Wall, 1 Door Powdercake/Banana Lure Structure near the Portal, the Biome became a lot nicer to visit. The Monkeys pop out of the Portal and, for the most part, automatically target the Powdercake/Banana Lure Structure and leave me alone.
Getting the Moon Quay Island situated was initially a huge pain in the butt though. I was running around like a clueless moron, as per usual. 

Also, I got too many Pirates Bandanas and Wooden Cutless. Monkey Pirate Ships are basically Spam at this point.  I recently created a Teleport Location on Moon Quay Island with Wanda. I'm never going in that part of my Ocean with a boat ever again. 

[Antynomity]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Things like WaterLogged feel far too tiny to be really spectacular, if the biome was about 4 times it’s size and I needed to carefully waddle through it avoiding striders and grass gators it would feel a lot more unique I think.

This IMO perfectly describes most of ocean content... tiny set pieces that mean nothing, I am all for setpieces but these are supposed to be biomes and yet they barely take up any space on the ocean, I'd be all for decreasing the amount of waterlogged biomes if the biome itself generated as a way bigger mass on the ocean that you'd have to traverse through. And I'm not saying that the Waterlogged biome is useless, the update itself was the best ocean themed update in the entire RoT arc, you want big trees? You need to oome back to the biomes instead of getting one tree nut and getting more from one tree that you plant, it added a use for glommer goop both as a means to get oversized ocean trees but also as a better boat patch that fully gets rid of the damage (aka wavey jones can't pop open a hole in the same spot like he can with boat patches.)

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay so something we need to address is that to me any content that requires using a boat to get to and experience is considered Ocean Content for me.

Same here!

[Dextops]

33 minutes ago, yourAnty said:

This IMO perfectly describes most of ocean content... tiny set pieces that mean nothing, I am all for setpieces but these are supposed to be biomes and yet they barely take up any space on the ocean, I'd be all for decreasing the amount of waterlogged biomes if the biome itself generated as a way bigger mass on the ocean that you'd have to traverse through. And I'm not saying that the Waterlogged biome is useless, the update itself was the best ocean themed update in the entire RoT arc, you want big trees? You need to oome back to the biomes instead of getting one tree nut and getting more from one tree that you plant, it added a use for glommer goop both as a means to get oversized ocean trees but also as a better boat patch that fully gets rid of the damage (aka wavey jones can't pop open a hole in the same spot like he can with boat patches.)

This just made me realize how cool it would’ve been to have a massive waterlogged biome in a section of the ocean

[MikoFanboy]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the reason DST ocean bad is because of the cookie boat

by desgin, it is the source that drag everything else down, especially ocean boss

 

 

 

[Yuuko]

When sailing first dropped I really enjoyed it.  Fishing too.  The problem is that the ocean content isn't really a game in its self its just an addition to living on the main land.  The whole thing could use a redesign from the perspective of "so what if you wanted to live on the boat?"

We need => Less required resources from land / more sources of materials from sea.

The spiders in the water logged biome are decent for this, but we need bee stingers for boat patches or glommer for tree jam.  Either the recipes should be changed, or new sources added so that boating can be self sufficient.  This relates to all things - patches, replacing sails and rigging, armor and equips, grass / twigs / flint / etc.

We need => More combat options that compliment working in a cramped space.

There isn't much room to dodge on a boat, but the content seems to forget this leading to a lot of forced hits.  Its cool to make you feel more cramped on the boat, but there still need to be options.  I think either a cutlass that when used on a boat pushes mobs back on hit to help make more room, or adding the bramble vest retaliate damage to the cutter cap to punish enemies glomping us would help us feel a bit more even with some of the situations we run into out there.  (the ocean really needs its DS equivalent that isn't a boss drop from CK.  The Cutlass Supreme needs to make a come back !!)

Vision is also still too low on the ocean, which holds us back a lot.  The spy glass really needs to be ported over so we can scope out the distance as we travel.

We need => Less things that just destroy a boat / better ways to protect our boat.

They tried this with the bumpers which is a decent upgrade but we could still use an improved steering wheel and anchor similar to the blue feather sail that gives improved performance.  Also perhaps when these structures are broken instead of just being destroyed they enter a destroyed state which can be repaired with a modal similar to pearl's house so that other structures / placement requirements don't ruin more of the boat.  The required materials for repairs could even be randomized so each repair might send you on a different journey.

I think if it was easier to restore things to rights it wouldn't be so bad that they got messed up.

Pirates really need a rework in more ways the one...  I love the idea of pirates, but what we got is a mess.

[goodguythatguy]

I almost forgot that Nautopilots were added to the game recently. Those are probably worth mentioning here. Taking a second boat with me seems like even more of a cumbersome/stressful experience. Maybe they can be used to do some really creative things, but I haven't even crafted one yet. Maybe I'm missing out. 

I haven't crafted a Cannon Kit yet either, I doubt I could even utilize Cannons when playing on a Controller. Every Ranged Weapon is basically useless on a Controller. I'm better off fighting with a Shovel, and I'm not exaggerating.


 

[BoysenSyrup]

A bit silly that having a wide fleet of boats with driftwood oars is far better then one dedicated boat just due to how annoying the mainland is to sail around. I feel like having the Shipwreck Fog would help out a lot here, even more then it did in that game.

[Catteflyterpill]

2 hours ago, Dextops said:

This just made me realize how cool it would’ve been to have a massive waterlogged biome in a section of the ocean

Yeah larger oceanic biomes that just span out for you to explore with your boat would be so much more interesting. Instead of a little pocket of space, it could feel like an area intended for boat navigation. Maybe even with subbiomes within it, like the lunar island has.

[FourthLess]

Gotta say, I know ocean is far, far from feeling like a complete worthwhile part of the game to dedicate your time into but I really enjoyed it as a little relax feature to just join a pub and from very early days start your own boat base and live on it by fishing. Reward-wise fishing sucks, obviously, but it's really relaxing and I enjoy the mechanics. There's just something about it in dst that I don't get the same feeling from fishing in other games.

But then Moon Quay update came. I didn't and still don't mind Wavey Jones and Rockjaws and consider them both pretty reasonable threats but I despise Pirate Raids and they were the single thing that killed the cute little ocean boat base as a way to play the game for me on public servers with unaltered settings. Which really is a shame since the update also introduced other boat stuff to play around like magnets that I just didn't really bother trying. 

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Dextops said:

This just made me realize how cool it would’ve been to have a massive waterlogged biome in a section of the ocean

Oh no you misunderstand, I made a massive (now archived) thread about how over the past few years Klei has been adding new biomes, resources & mobs into DST.. However those Biomes, Resources and Mobs go completely under-utilized and Waterlogged is just one of MANY examples.

What I want Klei to do is to add new ways to interact with the games already existing gameplay content.

For example Shell Bells were added way back with She Sells Sea Shells update, Palm Trees were added with Curse of Moon Quay, RockJaw Sharks added with Troubled Waters.

Now if only the game took the content that’s available in it and used it more, such as a Moon Quay Island the size of Lunar Island giving you plenty of room to dodge and actually fight the Pirate Monkeys- A bigger Island also kicks open the door to more places to search for their buried treasures rather than being crammed on this one very tiny mostly forgettable bit-size island.

We could have PalmCone trees spawn on small islands the “current” size of Moon Quay that has Shell Bells, Sea Anenemy, a fallen survivor skeleton and a RockJaw circling round and round it as if telling a tale of a survivor who ended up shipwrecked on a island with no escape from the hungry circling shark.

If WaterLogged were the size of say a Swamp Biome from the Mainland, Moon Quay the size of Lunar Island.. etc..

Scatter cookie cutters about in the ocean (like having one or two of them just near some shipwreckage planks eating lunch)

Klei keeps cramming the game with new content while the EXISTING content gets under-utilized as is.

I’d LOVE a bigger Moon Quay Island the size of Lunar with room to actually dodge & fight monkeys on, with cute little Crustashines just taking up residence across the Sandy biome Klei could port of SW Sea Limpet Rocks and let them spawn on this island and out at sea, or Hamlet Stone Slabs to flip over for surprise loots (could be where pirate monkeys hide their treasures sometimes..)

The TL:DR of EVERYTHING I’m trying to say is that if DST actually had a “Creative Mode” like Minecraft, I can model the world to my liking by placing turf, biomes, resources and mobs around whereever I want them.

Sure maybe there’s a MOD that does that, but I want something like BattleBlock Theater or Little Big Planet where I can construct a level or world for my friends to explore.

Theres a newer game that just released called Meet Your Maker, basically if players could do THAT… DST would sky-Rocket in popularity.

And if we the players never get that sort of freedom, then at very least Klei devs should look at EVERYTHING they e added into the game over the years and ask themselves, now where can we place this in our world to make more entertaining to players to engage with?

Because I can tell you the current way it’s all generated in one small cluster off by its lonesome is what makes people go there ONCE then ignore its entire existence afterward.

[cybers2001]

3 hours ago, goodguythatguy said:

I almost forgot that Nautopilots were added to the game recently. Those are probably worth mentioning here. Taking a second boat with me seems like even more of a cumbersome/stressful experience. Maybe they can be used to do some really creative things, but I haven't even crafted one yet. Maybe I'm missing out. 
 

If you haven’t built a nautopilot carousel yet, you’re definitely missing out.

[lowercase skye]

The ocean is my favorite part of the game that breathed new life into it after like 4 years of active playing, and I really really love it. I won't go into all the reasons why since it would just be me listing off all the content people take issue with here in a positive manner, but I would like to say that if fishing is unrewarding and takes so long, that's not on the game, that's on you. Fishing is super rewarding as it gets you tons of non-spoiling meat that all take like, a few seconds each to catch, and can then be kept in a fishin' bin where they will never die ever, but there's definitely a wrong way to do it... or rather, there are early game options you're meant to upgrade from fairly quickly.

[ButterStuffed]

My biggest gripe with ocean content, including fishing, is that instead of rewarding the player for doing something right, you are punished for doing it wrong and it is especially grating when the margin of error is so wide.

Using the oar for example, you are punished for attempting to row too quickly with wetness, a remark from the character, and slower progress, while rowing correctly is rewarded with just not being punished. If the system was reversed so that you are clearly rewarded for rowing with a steady rhythm and not punished for breaking the rhythm then it would better. The same design pervades most of the other ocean content like fishing, avoiding obstacles on your boat, and dealing with raids. You are not rewarded for performing it correctly, but only punished for doing it wrong.

Not to say that you shouldn't be punished for performing a task incredibly wrong, but having little to no intrinsic reward for interacting with ocean content the way Klei intends is just not great.

[lowercase skye]

2 minutes ago, ButterStuffed said:

My biggest gripe with ocean content, including fishing, is that instead of rewarding the player for doing something right, you are punished for doing it wrong and it is especially grating when the margin of error is so wide.

Using the oar for example, you are punished for attempting to row too quickly with wetness, a remark from the character, and slower progress, while rowing correctly is rewarded with just not being punished. If the system was reversed so that you are clearly rewarded for rowing with a steady rhythm and not punished for breaking the rhythm then it would better.

This just comes down to the specific framing, doesn't it...? You described the reward as a default state and then the punishment as a punishment, but the reward of rowing in a rhythm is that your boat goes faster and you can row again sooner, while the default state is rowing too slow for the rhythm, and the punishment is when you row too fast. I have to wonder, is it a simple matter of there should be a little shine effect when you row correctly or something?

[ButterStuffed]

17 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

This just comes down to the specific framing, doesn't it...? You described the reward as a default state and then the punishment as a punishment, but the reward of rowing in a rhythm is that your boat goes faster and you can row again sooner, while the default state is rowing too slow for the rhythm, and the punishment is when you row too fast.

Perhaps punishment was the wrong term to use.

Spoiler

I'm going off of the concept of operant conditioning, so the rowing system would be better classified as negative reinforcement, where taking away the negative (getting wet) is the main motivator.

17 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

I have to wonder, is it a simple matter of there should be a little shine effect when you row correctly or something?

Pretty much yeah.

[mr. brj]

I like sailing on the ocean but I hate 1) how there are only a few rewards for interacting with the ocean content in the early game, and 2) how the majority of the game's content is inaccessible if you decide to invest your time and resources into sailing.

[Mike23Ua]

Another thing I want to bring to light is that Ocean Content is an Illusion… what you’re really on is a moving platform of land with limited maneuverability. You don’t sit in a canoe and swim like you do in a game like WindBound, nope! Your instead on your very own little patch of moving land-

This is a HUGE issue when it comes to the content you’re supposed to interact with, because your on a small raft with limited movement, you can barely dodge or kite. 

While I understand that DST boats were trying to be different from Shipwrecked, it’s also a lot to manage solo, raise anchor drop mast, all of this should be like summoning Abigail and riling her up- Options available to the player while directly mounted to the steering wheel. Obviously it’s more manageable when you have other players to play with and help navigate- but adding a boat that is multiplayer centric into a game most people hardly play multiplayer in was of course not going to go over well & be a bit problematic.

My issues with navigating a boat aside, Klei should’ve utilized the boat similar to this-

Add some new mobs that attack the edges of the boat and can have their attacks dodged if the player moves out of the (blue) radius colored here, otherwise: the jellies electrical charges hit them. (Poor Winona!)

I could easily see mobs like Shipwreckeds stinkRay jumping up over the deck of your boat and releasing a small plum of sting gas onto it, forcing you to move away from the patch of gas, the gas would evaporate before it would attempt dropping a second bomb, like a mob that flys overhead and drops a stink bomb randomly on the deck to troll you.

Or if instead of immediately jumping on board your boat, RockJaw would bite at the Edges of the boat (bonus points if the boat actually broke up into parts) which gives you, the player a opportunity to attack it as it has its jaws preoccupied with munching a portion of your raft.

we can port over shipwrecked Swordfish and give them sort of a Clockwork Rooks  “Charge Warmup Animation” before they leap into the air trying to “Stab” you as they fly over the deck of your boat and land back in the water on the other side.

Let me use the limited space on the boat to dodge mob attacks that are designed to interact WITH the Boat.

Instead… Klei opted to just let hundreds of swarms of Monkeys, Cookie Cutters, and Water Gliding Spiders just jump on board the tiny platform with you and make your life absolutely miserable.

If only one or two spiders could leap on board at a time while the others sort of just watched and intimidated you from the water the content would be a lot more manageable.

Instead of putting 8 pirate monkeys on a platform that invade your vessel put 3 two invade your ship, one stays on his ship so they can escape faster.

Put a hard cap on how many cookie cutters can leap onto your boat at the same time.. etc.

Make using the tiny moving platform of land (Aka your boat) FUN.

Which in its current form… needs a ton of improvements and tweaks.

[Pet Rock]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Another thing I want to bring to light is that Ocean Content is an Illusion… what you’re really on is a moving platform of land with limited maneuverability. You don’t sit in a canoe and swim like you do in a game like WindBound, nope! Your instead on your very own little patch of moving land

The same argument could be made for sailing in shipwrecked, as piloting a boat is essentially walking and thus the entire ocean is an illusion and is just land. I don't see how this changes the game at all.

Edit: I understand your argument but there are plenty of methods of interacting with things at a range and adding more creatures to further limit your space is not a good idea.