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Feedback on rudders - wtf?


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Okay so I haven't touched actually building boats in a while b/c most of the ocean content is kinda bs about destroying any efforts to build a boat, and most of the ocean content is easily obtained just darting out and back.

BUT I'm using ADM's mod to make an archipelago world and having fun boating.  Being on a boat this long, I'm putting together some boat designs again.  So I'm checking out this new rudder addition Klei made at some point and seriously, wtf?

Why do sails not rotate with the boat?  Kinda makes the rudder pointless lol  This was so close to a good item for making boats feel more natural by steering the whole ship instead of just magically rotating sails lol and then the sails just magically stay stationary with these?  Wow, what a swing and a miss lol

I'm gonna check out if there are any mods to fix this, but fr is there any real value in rotating a boat without the sails turning too?  Why would I want this?  I give this as "feedback" but idk if I expect Klei to care about fixing old content enough to consider it these days.

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Just now, Baark0 said:

Pretty sure the only use for rudders is to rotate your boat so you can jump on and not get blocked by like a crockpot or something

I think the developers intended for it to allow cannons to rotate. The wide range of cannons pretty much makes them useless though.

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They probably assumed it'd be disorienting for players to try and navigate between structures on a rotating boat.

Maybe the camera should spin around with the rudder? Atleast that way you;d always see the boat from head on.

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I personally have found use with rudders when using the pinch and winch, specially with planting overlarge tree nuts. Normal you'd have to have a complete circle of the things to get a full nook and cranny coverage of all the possible angles you can put the put into the fertile sea, but with a rudder you can just rotate that bad boy and get and infinite amount of angles as long as you put the winch near the edge.

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The rudder sure has some gimmicky utilities for other gimmicky structures like cannons or exploiting shields… but since these two things are usually not quite useful (to me, I have more reliable and cheap replacements for them) then I can’t find a reason to place one while I would love to have it for rotating the sails as an upgrade to navigation which right now struggles from offering variety.

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It's a sandbox tool. The main use for rudders was for aiming cannons, before they made it so you could do that from the cannon itself, but now the rudder still exists as just another mechanic to mess around with. Give it a couple years and there'll almost certainly end up being new content that has an unintentional emergent-gameplay-type interaction with rudders. It's just more sand to play with!

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5 hours ago, Shosuko said:

but fr is there any real value in rotating a boat without the sails turning too?

the main use of the rudder its as many have pointed been able to move all the structures and heavy objects on a boat without relocating them so you can always have a clear path to go back to land, personally when collecting giant tree nuts from the waterloged half of my boat becomes unreachable from land, its very comfy to just press a button to make them all go to the other side of the boat so i have a clear path to the harbor.

 

5 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Why do sails not rotate with the boat?  Kinda makes the rudder pointless lol  This was so close to a good item for making boats feel more natural by steering the whole ship instead of just magically rotating sails lol and then the sails just magically stay stationary with these?  Wow, what a swing and a miss lol

This is most likely intentional because if the sails did change duration during the animation, you couldnt be able to to rotate the boat while moving causeing a lot of other problems, also many people have mentioned the rudder exist to aim the cannons but honestly they already have a decent range in wich you can attack, i am usually good just having two cannons so i can always attack from any side of the boat.

 

5 hours ago, Shosuko said:

but idk if I expect Klei to care about fixing old content enough to consider it these days

Bro moonquay is not even a year old, we ve got lots of updates revitilicing old content, reap what you sow, ancient guardian rework, the oasis pond loot pool change, ant lion´s new drop, on the last dev stream they even said they want to deliver more updates focusing on complete overhouls of old systems.

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8 minutes ago, Malfario said:

also many people have mentioned the rudder exist to aim the cannons but honestly they already have a decent range in wich you can attack, i am usually good just having two cannons so i can always attack from any side of the boat.

The problem is not the range of cannons but that if you shoot in the direction of an object for example a sail the bullet will break that structure and keeps going until reaching the aim place

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I think it's crucial information for this convo that cannons didn't initially have a manual aiming like they do now: they would instead be locked to shooting straight ahead in one direction, and using the rudder was the way to rotate the cannons on your boat.

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I don’t like having to paddle my boat into just the right area to play the crane grab mini-game with a pinching winch, so if my boat ends up over something I can use the winch on, but not lined up enough with it the rudder can spin the boat till the winch lines up with what I’m wanting to pull up out the ocean, like sunken treasure chests.

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Got something for rudders Which is like a repeater for flingos and the fire pump.
I saw the idea from a chinese player But it was probably the most interesting thing to use with rudders.

Also apparently there is a way to place structures closer together with the rudder?
i don't know how to do do it though.

I personally though really wanted the fire pump to target plants because then can make a sprinkler system with the rudder and the pump together https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1007488689175285782/1049145608700711002/Sprinkler_system.mp4

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5 hours ago, _zwb said:

The best use of rudder is to spin structures on the edge of the boat onto the ocean, allowing you to stack structures.

What kind of structures?  Like a "all construction boat" that rotates the alchemy, sm, boat tool, etc so if you need to prefab something you just hit it when that one rotates by you? lol

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Oh yeah i forgot you can stack fig trees. Stack like 20 nuts in one spot for 40+ fig gather nodes in one area takes forever to grow tho since you can only grow 1 by 1 consecutivly

Edit: heres a vid on what im talking about fig stacking

Spoiler

 

 

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3 hours ago, Shosuko said:

What kind of structures?

For example, you can stack 20 pig houses on the boat, place some docks and put an anenemy at one of the corners, spin the pig houses off right next to that corner. Pigs spawns off screen and they'll try to spawn on that corner since it's the only valid place to spawn on. Then you get a super efficient afk pig farm with no limits to its productivity.

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Have you ever had something you can fish out of the water spawn close to land so maneuvering your boat directly over the under water shadow to use the pinch winch on the loot wasn’t possible?

The Rudder allows you to spin the structures on your boat, which lets that winch more easily line up with what your wanting to pull out of the water without having to position the boat perfectly over it.

Some people say the Rudder was added to go with Boat Cannons, but.. to me being able to “Adjust” the Pinch Winch is this things BEST use. Like honestly it feels like a QOL for the pinching winch.

You want it to also rotate your boat sails, but I would prefer it stay exactly as it is so I can sail in one preferred direction while rotating my winch to line up with my ocean targets.

IF your suggestion to turn the masts was added to this thing it would effectively make doing the above even MORE of a hassle because NOW my boat is going off in the direction of the Rudder and that won’t be any fun.

Not to mention it would make the pretty boat carousels no longer work.

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32 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Have you ever had something you can fish out of the water spawn close to land so maneuvering your boat directly over the under water shadow to use the pinch winch on the loot wasn’t possible?

The Rudder allows you to spin the structures on your boat, which lets that winch more easily line up with what your wanting to pull out of the water without having to position the boat perfectly over it.

Some people say the Rudder was added to go with Boat Cannons, but.. to me being able to “Adjust” the Pinch Winch is this things BEST use. Like honestly it feels like a QOL for the pinching winch.

You want it to also rotate your boat sails, but I would prefer it stay exactly as it is so I can sail in one preferred direction while rotating my winch to line up with my ocean targets.

IF your suggestion to turn the masts was added to this thing it would effectively make doing the above even MORE of a hassle because NOW my boat is going off in the direction of the Rudder and that won’t be any fun.

Not to mention it would make the pretty boat carousels no longer work.

Do you keep your sails open while dropping your pinch n winch?  b/c I would normally stop my boat from moving before winching things up.  Lining up my winch with an oar has never been a hassle.  Nothing would stop the rudder from still allowing this with my suggestion.

The boat going off the direction of the rudder would make a lot more sense, and make navigation easier by giving you a sharper turning angle.  It also doesn't overwrite the wheel as that is better for fine tuned directions.  You know boats go off the direction of their rudder irl right?  That's like, literally the rudders job, it steers the ship.  This improves the thematic feel of the mechanic by aligning it with expectations and increasing our navigation options.

I don't care about boat carousels, but how would this change them in any way?  They don't use rudders.

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

For example, you can stack 20 pig houses on the boat, place some docks and put an anenemy at one of the corners, spin the pig houses off right next to that corner. Pigs spawns off screen and they'll try to spawn on that corner since it's the only valid place to spawn on. Then you get a super efficient afk pig farm with no limits to its productivity.

This is pure brilliance !  Love it, thx for the tech.

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13 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

This is pure brilliance !  Love it, thx for the tech.

Also you need to get the boat 510 stone walls away from the orign on either x or z axis to actually be able to spin off structures. Idk why 510, but it is just easier once you get your position to (510, 0, 510) or further.

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51 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I don't care about boat carousels, but how would this change them in any way?  They don't use rudders.

Uhh.. yeah about that. Your probably thinking of a Boat Train using a bunch of magnets and whatever.. I’m talking about my very pretty moving boat carousels which I decorate with WintersFeast trees and presents sometimes & watch rotate round & round as I sail the ocean in the direction I want to go in.. Changing it so masts are turned in direction WITH the Rudder Wouldve smashed this boat into that land mass to the left there.

IMG_5741.gif.5a7ef356d6813befe5f301ddbabf3000.gif

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