Klei, this could be your last chance

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I feel like that is more of a “one off” type of scenario. You most likely are going to experience the cool content for a bit and then resume your older world and try to kill CC to access said content the “intended” way.

 

Again, I can only speak from the “Xbox Experience” but almost nobody is going to access this content the “Intended” Way, there are several reasons for this.

1- It’s tied to doing a bunch of quests and fighting several bosses that can take literal hours if not real world days to accomplish.

2- Because Xbox does not have Klei Official or Dedicated Servers, And all we have are Player Hosted Worlds: This means that the world will ONLY be playable for as long as the Host is around to Host it, hosts do not migrate when the original host leaves, or if they lose connection: The world just closes and your returned to the main menu to select someone else’s world to join (with their own wacky settings possibly applied) or host your own.

Because of these two factors: To realistically reach the “intended” way you would need to be lucky enough to be able to join the same hosts world over multiple real world days during the time they’re hosting it.. or host your own world.

This leads to the deciding factor that No One has the time to reach this content the “intended” way and will likely toggle it On/Off at their own Leisure.

This is by no means a BAD THING though, because instead of needing to get lucky enough to join the same hosts world over multiple days worth of play sessions, you can access this content Immediately-

And going Forward, from this update onward I sincerely hope Klei takes this into heavy consideration, I was deeply saddened when I couldn’t enjoy ANY of the Moonstorm/Eye of The Storm Update stuff because it was tied to some super late game progress I’d never realistically get to unless I spent many many hours to reach that point in my own privately hosted world.

[SomebodyRandom]

39 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Oh I know, but that’s only before you join the world, I want this info to be viewable after you’ve joined. Thanks for sharing this though! <3

This is a great idea. There's a mod that was made by one of the developers that allows the server host to access the server settings from the leaderboard at any time and change it. Would be pretty cool if they added it officially, at least letting any player be able to check the server settings.

[PetulantPansy]

17 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

You can have the “strongest” weapon in the game by day 10 in default settings by heading to the lunar island (which you need to do 9 times out of 10 for the new content anyway to craft the brightsmith) and have glass cutters. Content that should be long after CC should be stronger then conventional gear you can already get if you know what you are looking for.

 

I understand what you're saying and agree. But I still think it would trivialize the early game experience. We can argue about how easy it is to collect living logs and nmf in the early game but as soon as you kill the first brightshade, you'll get materials to make these new crafts handed to you forever. Technically, the new gear is stronger. It's just kind of in a forced manner that clearly lots of people dislike

 

21 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

In a scenario where we are asking for a weapon with 17 extra base that you will likely get long into a running world compared to a weapon you can get by day 10-15 in the form of the dark sword/glass cutter, I do not see this as insane. Even more still, because that weapon will deal planar damage (likely in the form of 34 planar and 51 normal damage) and that doesn’t scale, it actually scales worse with damage modifiers. Wolf with any extra damage multiplier with a cutter/dark sword will outperform the sword, and the gap only widens the higher the damage gets.

It would still be the first common weapon to break the 150 damage barrier. I also believe that players like wolf/wig will still have their multipliers when using these weapons to fight spiders/hounds

 

23 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

This is 100% the players own decision for doing this. Players who enable content that is specifically designed for lategame are accepting the fact said content is meant for Lategame, and should not be surprised if once they get past the difficulty spike have much stronger gear then they normally would. 

It is, but it would be dumb to make content for only a portion of Klei's player base which is why this setting exists in the first place. I would expect it to actually be used. Otherwise if it were strictly locked behind game progression, this option shouldn't even exist

[Maxil20]

51 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

While I know some don't like 'balancing' things based on the unknown, this is the first update in the 'Arc'.

If this is the pinnacle of weapons & gear Klei intends to add to this section of the game, then sure why not. But if this is just a stepping stone into a new system and more gear to come... then I think this would over tune things going forward.

Since only Klei knows what's coming, I'll put my faith in their decision making—at least until I have a better view of the big picture.

I can see what you mean by this, and it's fair. I just worry things might get undertuned in particular from my experience. It still makes me a bit sad the strident trident hits dark sword damage on a boat, and seedshells got reduced from 68 to 23.8 damage despite rarely being farmed prior...

I just feel it would be a bit neat if they were a bit more, well, risky with higher damage weapons. SW from my experience was a very neat example of weapons going beyond the scope of DST weapons, while still having dark swords or cutlass supreme be the main "staple" later on if you desired.
 

37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Again, I can only speak from the “Xbox Experience” but almost nobody is going to access this content the “Intended” Way

I get what you mean, but I feel like content still should not be evaluated based on if players will just turn the content on or off. I understand if you simply want to access the new content, but you should expect the content to be a considerable improvement over other gear you can get as a result.z

I understand consoles don't have many (official) servers. Most of the time on PS4 I just opted to host my own world and play that constantly. I didn't mind, but I can understand why it is unfortunate.
 

30 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

It would still be the first common weapon to break the 150 damage barrier. I also believe that players like wolf/wig will still have their multipliers when using these weapons to fight spiders/hounds

For reference, Planar damage does not scale with character damage modifiers (and is intentional that it does not) . In the example of it doing 34 planar and 51 regular damage, Wolf would be doing 136 damage, same as the dark sword. For 6X (the highest Wolfgang can obtain when using spiced chaud froid on a wet mob) Wolf will hit 340 damage with a brightshade sword, and 408 with the dark sword.

 

[Theukon-dos]

26 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

It would still be the first common weapon to break the 150 damage barrier. I also believe that players like wolf/wig will still have their multipliers when using these weapons to fight spiders/hounds

You mean the characters who are good at fighting would still be good at fighting? Yeah, I don't think that's the problem you seem to be making it out to be.

[Vinja]

53 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Again, I can only speak from the “Xbox Experience” but almost nobody is going to access this content the “Intended” Way, there are several reasons for this.

1- It’s tied to doing a bunch of quests and fighting several bosses that can take literal hours if not real world days to accomplish.

2- Because Xbox does not have Klei Official or Dedicated Servers, And all we have are Player Hosted Worlds: This means that the world will ONLY be playable for as long as the Host is around to Host it, hosts do not migrate when the original host leaves, or if they lose connection: The world just closes and your returned to the main menu to select someone else’s world to join (with their own wacky settings possibly applied) or host your own.

Because of these two factors: To realistically reach the “intended” way you would need to be lucky enough to be able to join the same hosts world over multiple real world days during the time they’re hosting it.. or host your own world.

This leads to the deciding factor that No One has the time to reach this content the “intended” way and will likely toggle it On/Off at their own Leisure.

This is by no means a BAD THING though, because instead of needing to get lucky enough to join the same hosts world over multiple days worth of play sessions, you can access this content Immediately-

And going Forward, from this update onward I sincerely hope Klei takes this into heavy consideration, I was deeply saddened when I couldn’t enjoy ANY of the Moonstorm/Eye of The Storm Update stuff because it was tied to some super late game progress I’d never realistically get to unless I spent many many hours to reach that point in my own privately hosted world.

You can certainly reach the content the intended way if you coordinate with the host of whatever server you’re trying to be a part of so you can play together, or more likely, just host your own world. 
 

if you host your own world and just play on it from time to time, couple hours here and there eventually you’ll have a base and good gear and you’ll be ready to start fighting bosses. 
 

obviously you can make your own decisions and play however it is you want but if the way you’re playing is join someone’s server and play for a few hours then leave and most likely never play that world again yeah you’re not going to progress. It’s not the responsibility of the game to give you all the content the game has to offer in just a few hours. 
 

Im definitely sympathetic to you and it’s really disappointing that klei doesn’t have officials for you guys to play on but honestly that wouldn’t solve this problem you’re describing anyway because public servers generally die at the first winter and that’s not gonna be enough time to complete CC anyway. The amount of players that have killed CC on official servers has to be below 1% lol. 
 

Anyway, I definitely think being able to toggle the content on is a good choice but the post game gear doesn’t deserve to be neutered just because people have the choice to play the game in a way that wasn’t intended. If so then Klei should also balance the game based on mods as well since the player can choose to activate them even though they aren’t enabled by default. That sounds kinda silly, no?

[goatt]

Klei should NOT change the number now. The sword is obviously not for the current bosses.

The number can be tuned up when new bosses are introduced. It's better to tune it up later than now. Tuning it down later will just cause people to feel sad.

[Vinja]

1 hour ago, PetulantPansy said:

I understand what you're saying and agree. But I still think it would trivialize the early game experience. We can argue about how easy it is to collect living logs and nmf in the early game but as soon as you kill the first brightshade, you'll get materials to make these new crafts handed to you forever. Technically, the new gear is stronger. It's just kind of in a forced manner that clearly lots of people dislike

 

It would still be the first common weapon to break the 150 damage barrier. I also believe that players like wolf/wig will still have their multipliers when using these weapons to fight spiders/hounds

 

It is, but it would be dumb to make content for only a portion of Klei's player base which is why this setting exists in the first place. I would expect it to actually be used. Otherwise if it were strictly locked behind game progression, this option shouldn't even exist

It would not trivialize the early game because the setting is not enabled, you have to kill CC. If you wanna talk custom settings then we’re talking about worlds where hunger can’t kill you, survivors get free resistance, you can remove all threats, turn the day to daytime only, spawn more beefalo and spawn more reeds, cactus, tumbleweeds, turn off nightmare creatures, turn off damage from nighttime, and much more. You can trivialize anything you want if you’re going to edit the settings. Should klei balance around those as well? It’s silly, just stop with that argument. Default settings are how you balance, people that wanna edit the game or install mods can play however they want but at the point balancing the game is up to them. End of story.

If klei wanted you to kill deerclops the option to remove him shouldn’t exist!

if klei wanted you to worry about sanity the option to remove nightmare creatures shouldn’t exist!

if klei wanted there to be consequences for death then endless worlds shouldn’t exist!

if klei wanted you to starve to death then the option to make hunger nonlethal shouldn’t exist!

if klei wanted you to make light to survive the night then the option to turn off night damage shouldn’t exist!

you understand yet?

[HeatAndRun]

You need to equip full sets of brightshade sword, helm and armor to get only 75 damage which cannot get a direct benefit from damage multiplier while giving up using other useful equipments? It's nonsense. The brightshade set bonus needs more impactful benefits. Currently the armor and helm are just more durable football helm and log suit made of expensive end-game materials, without set bonus, and the bonus itself isn't that much impressive.

[Vinja]

26 minutes ago, goatt said:

Klei should NOT change the number now. The sword is obviously not for the current bosses.

The number can be tuned up when new bosses are introduced. It's better to tune it up later than now. Tuning it down later will just cause people to feel sad.

Hold up guys, all can rest easy, our lord and savior @goatt has foretold the coming of new bosses on the horizon and that the sword if buffed would be far too powerful for the hypothetical beings

Discussion closed, goodnight all

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, Vinja said:

Hold up guys, all can rest easy, our lord and savior @goatt has foretold the coming of new bosses on the horizon and that the sword if buffed would be far too strong for the hypothetical beings

Discussion closed, goodnight all

No but I do have a serious question to bring up, if getting to these new weapons on Default settings requires beating CC, and by that point in the game nothing dare opposes your mighty prowess.. then what on EARTH do you want the weapons buffed even more for?

Personally I wish Klei would ditch the concept of locking it behind a long questline and a few bosses, and instead offer it up same as most content that came before it- As in as the days climb and seasons change, new challenges present themselves.

[Vinja]

17 minutes ago, HeatAndRun said:

You need to equip full sets of brightshade sword, helm and armor to get only 75 damage which cannot get a direct benefit from damage multiplier while giving up using other useful equipments? It's nonsense. The brightshade set bonus needs more impactful benefits. Currently the armor and helm are just more durable football helm and log suit made of expensive end-game materials, without set bonus, and the bonus itself isn't that much impressive.

You need to give up weapon, armor, and head slot all so you can kill a small handful of mobs slightly faster. 
 

I mean it’s definitely useful even if only during niche scenarios but My big issue is I don’t think it justifies being gear only accessible after CC. It’s not some super great gear, in fact it’s not really any different from gear that’s accessible from the beginning of the first autumn so why should it be locked behind CC? 
 

Im not arguing that it should be available earlier, I like the idea of post game gear I just want that gear to feel like post game gear.

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

No but I do have a serious question to bring up, if getting to these new weapons on Default settings requires beating CC, and by that point in the game nothing dare opposes your mighty prowess.. then what on EARTH do you want the weapons buffed even more for?

Why should any challenging feat reward you? I mean you already overcame the challenge right?

Do we need stronger weapons? No. But do we need the same exact weapon we already have just more expensive? Also no. I’d rather if the weapon is going to exist that it exist for a purpose beyond feigning progression.

[maxwell_winters]

7 minutes ago, Vinja said:

it’s not really any different from gear that’s accessible from the beginning of the first autumn

Stop saying that. It doesn't drain your sanity like the Dark Sword. It has twice more durability. It deals more damage to the shadow faction, which isn't small. And unlike the Glass Cutter, it is prototypable. Saying that the sword isn't better than Dark Sword/Glass Cutter only because it has the same damage values is a straw man. It is still objectively the best non-character specific weapon in the game.

[Mike23Ua]

14 minutes ago, Vinja said:

Do we need stronger weapons? No. But do we need the same exact weapon we already have just more expensive? Also no. I’d rather if the weapon is going to exist that it exist for a purpose beyond feigning progression.

Okay one more question, would you have liked it more if instead of being a “new”weapon.. it was an upgrade to your existing ones? Like enchanting a sword in Minecraft to be more useful against a particular mob.

[Vinja]

1 minute ago, maxwell_winters said:

It is still objectively the best non-character specific weapon in the game.

If the other commenter is to be believed it scales worse with Wolfgang than the darksword? So uhh, stop saying that. 
 

I’m very clearly speaking hyperbolically. Yes I am aware that the sword has minor stat differences and that the materials to craft it are different. It is not literally the exact same as the dark sword, what I am saying in short is that the sword is not worthy of being post CC gear. It’s not good enough in it’s current state. It is, dare I say, disappointing. 

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay one more question, would you have liked it more if instead of being a “new”weapon.. it was an upgrade to your existing ones? Like enchanting a sword in Minecraft to be more useful against a particular mob.

I mean if klei wanted to create an enchanting system or something that was accessible post CC I would definitely be interested to see what they come up with and even though the idea seems a bit odd at first glance I’m sure they could do something cool with it. At least it wouldn’t be the same old stuff we’ve already seen and done. My biggest issue is that the sword is the same stuff we already have, what’s the point? Make it useful or get rid of it. Like I said, I’m willing to trust klei at this point and hope they’ve got a plan in mind and that it will all make sense later but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little worried.

[maxwell_winters]

5 minutes ago, Vinja said:

If the other commenter is to be believed it scales worse with Wolfgang than the darksword? So uhh, stop saying that. 

Wolfgang has more than enough weapons already that can make him one shot everything. He's not the only character in the game. It's not the first instance when an item isn't as useful for certain characters (Football Helmets for Wigrid, Lazy Explorer for Wortox, basically most weapons for Wanda, etc.) Wolfgang relying on weapons with more downsides to deal maximum damage output might be an actual design choice. He is probably the reason we're even getting the planar damage in the first place. 

[Vinja]

37 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Wolfgang has more than enough weapons already that can make him one shot everything. He's not the only character in the game. It's not the first instance when an item isn't as useful for certain characters (Football Helmets for Wigrid, Lazy Explorer for Wortox, basically most weapons for Wanda, etc.) Wolfgang relying on weapons with more downsides to deal maximum damage output might be an actual design choice. He is probably the reason we're even getting the planar damage in the first place. 

My point was that it’s not literally the objectively best non character specific sword in the game as you said. 
 

But I got what you meant. You can take things super literally and try to use it as a point against someone but everyone else gets what they mean so you don’t look nearly as clever as you think lol.

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

No but I do have a serious question to bring up, if getting to these new weapons on Default settings requires beating CC, and by that point in the game nothing dare opposes your mighty prowess.. then what on EARTH do you want the weapons buffed even more for?

I honestly think Klei shouldn't release those items until they are ready to release the boss. This release has brought more confusion than thrills because it's technically half-finished thematically.

[maxwell_winters]

30 minutes ago, Vinja said:

My point was that it’s not literally the objectively best non character specific sword in the game as you said. 

Fine, it's the best weapon in the game for characters without damage modifiers which still makes it an upgrade over the dark sword and glass cutter for 80% of the cast.

30 minutes ago, Vinja said:

But I got what you meant. You can take things super literally and try to use it as a point against someone but everyone else gets what they mean so you don’t look nearly as clever as you think lol.

First, you said that the sword isn't any better than the gear you can get on the first autumn. Then I pointed out that I personally disagree with this because damage isn't the only stat that matters when comparing weapons.

2 hours ago, Vinja said:

It’s not some super great gear, in fact it’s not really any different from gear that’s accessible from the beginning of the first autumn so why should it be locked behind CC? 

Saying "I was hyperbolizing, and I didn't mean it literally" doesn't win you any points. Hyperbole is not something that can be easily understood in written form. It is an easy way to cover up that you didn't take everything into consideration when making the statement. 

Anyway, this discussion is going nowhere, and it's honestly kinda unpleasant for me, so I'd rather stop here.

[Vinja]

3 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Saying "I was hyperbolizing, and I didn't mean it literally" doesn't win you any points. Hyperbole is not something that can be easily understood in written form. It is an easy way to cover up that you didn't take everything into consideration when making the statement. 

I understand it’s not always easy to get across social nuances online, I just thought it was obvious that I wasn’t being literal because yes there are slight differences and I think we’re all aware of them. My point was that the differences aren’t enough for a post game weapon and I feel like most everyone else here understood that. I was just speaking hyperbolically because I think most people here are on the same page and we know that yes there are differences but in practice they don’t mean much and I don’t think they suffice for a weapon that is content locked behind the current final boss. 
 

Anyway, I apologize for making you feel uncomfortable I’m not trying to be a jerk, I’m just someone that doesn’t take conflict very seriously, especially online so it doesn’t bother me much and it’s kinda easy to forget that not everyone is like me in that regard and that there are real people on the other side of the screen. I’m sorry man. I’ve seen you post here on some other threads and you’re a cool dude, I didn’t mean anything personally about what I said. Have a good night man.

[Paxtonnnn]

I feel like noting that apparently the next twitch drop is coming out on the 27th - we still have a week.

[maxwell_winters]

4 minutes ago, Vinja said:

I just thought it was obvious that I wasn’t being literal because yes there are slight differences and I think we’re all aware of them.

It's the matter of perception. I don't see lack of sanity drain as a slight difference. The same with not being prototypable.  For example, I don't use Dark Swords nor Glass Cutters in the ruins because the former makes my sanity plummet and the latter is a hassle to bring there. Now you can just get 2 stacks of items to provide you with weapons, armor and hammer/pickaxe. And it deals extra damage to a good chunk of enemies in there. It makes the most dangerous section of the game easier since you kill everything faster and don't have to juggle hundreds of things in you inventory. It is a good progression.

I am not claiming that the sword is perfect the way it is, but saying that it doesn't give you a sense of progression is a bit unfair, imo.

23 minutes ago, Vinja said:

Anyway, I apologize for making you feel uncomfortable I’m not trying to be a jerk

All good.

[Yuuko]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

No but I do have a serious question to bring up, if getting to these new weapons on Default settings requires beating CC, and by that point in the game nothing dare opposes your mighty prowess.. then what on EARTH do you want the weapons buffed even more for?

 

b/c repeatedly killing bosses is a thing.  tbh after Celestial Champion the game is really just for mega basers as it is, because they have completed all of the challenges - but the game isn't over.  All of the bosses can be hit on repeat to farm their materials for base building.  There are a lot of non-bosses that need farming too.  Of course the end-game loop Klei is building is obviously going to have more to do after these as well..

I find your posts kinda funny in this regard:  You often complain about super powerful comfort upgrades accessed through killing bosses rather than given to you, but you also say you want the game to be more challenging and have a sense of progression...  Well progression is getting upgrades through completing challenges, so how do you square those two demands with each other?

[BB Marioni]

I personally wouldn't want an update like this. This will just make the game fall off the same rabbit hole as all korean mmorpgs, where all updates are just higher level caps and new gears with stronger stats which will render the older items useless. The thing I like with DST is that most of the progress is based on knowledge and player skill, not leveling up and hunting the strongest weapon and armor in the game. I played a similar game before called remnant from the ashes, where they have multiple armor and weapon sets, but none of them are "the strongest". you just have multiple different options for different playstyles, and you collect them all if you want to try them all out. There is no "beginner set" - "end game set" or "godly sets"

[Vinja]

1 hour ago, BB Marioni said:

I personally wouldn't want an update like this. This will just make the game fall off the same rabbit hole as all korean mmorpgs, where all updates are just higher level caps and new gears with stronger stats which will render the older items useless. The thing I like with DST is that most of the progress is based on knowledge and player skill, not leveling up and hunting the strongest weapon and armor in the game. I played a similar game before called remnant from the ashes, where they have multiple armor and weapon sets, but none of them are "the strongest". you just have multiple different options for different playstyles, and you collect them all if you want to try them all out. There is no "beginner set" - "end game set" or "godly sets"

I mean older items definitely wouldn’t be useless, killing CC is no walk in the park and you have to use something in all those tens of hours hours between starting a world and battling CC. Not to mention the fact that the new gear is fairly expensive, we’re certainly not gonna be seeing the end of the hambat or dark sword anytime soon. 
 

Also with pretty much every weapon being the exact same item with various damage numbers the ability to have a variety of gear sets is extremely limited. I absolutely agree with you on this point though, I would like a variety of weapons to all be good and usable but it’s just not the way klei has directed the game. There are no functional differences between the spear, battle spear, tentacle spike, hambat, dark sword, and thulecite club, and the new brightshade sword. There are slight mechanical differences, dark sword drains sanity, club gives you slight speed boost and a chance for the tentacles to spawn, hambat is on A spoil timer etc. The big difference  between one weapon and the next is the amount of damage it does which leads to all combat being fairly samey.

Anyway, I agree and would love to see more variety as well which is why I praise the new staff so much, it’s cool and unique and interesting and we definitely would love to see more of that.