Poll For Everyone's Favorite Weapon

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

if you aren't going to build any setups for bosses it is much better to pick ornery or default tendency as how much time you save gathering resources for armor and weapons will matter even more if you are going to play for a long time

this is what i dont get. Ornery has lower dps than shield of terror, less cost and less risk in boss fights. Also has less speed than a rider so you are wasting more time 90% of the time. So if the player likes to make autofarms i think makes sense to make them when you use a ornery beefalo too

weapons and armour are adquired passively as you clean the ruins to get gems and thulecite for decoration (if is a long run you will do it) so it doesnt take that much time and even less since they added both terraria armors

gathering food for the beef (even if you only feed him twig stews)+how slow they are cant compete imo to a player with their gear+a rider

never tried a default tendency but looks like the best one

obviously im not against ornery beefalos, they are great and a very fun way to play the game, very useful in early days and with great sinergy with many characters 

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

this is what i dont get. Ornery has lower dps than shield of terror, less cost and less risk in boss fights.

The 1000 hp 100% mele damage reduction, that why. If i face a hound wave as any character that not wendy/maxwell/wicker with stacked bees, i have to run kite for like 4 mins before i can start killing them, or i have to leave hound in the wild where it can bite me back later on. Ornery can just tank the entire wave, and slowly heal back to full in few days.

Problem with rider is it cant tank as it lost obedience when take damage.

The tankiness of beefalo allow you to fight without kiting in some situation, some lower hp bosses, which can boost it dps to darksword level when you kite perfectly.

When sailing, kite is impossible as boat is so small and when you vs ocean spider (when you try to harvest ocean tree nut) or monkey. And having ornery beefalo is much better than having darksword + what ever best armor you can come up with when vs those herds of enemies.
If you have a dark sword, and want to kill shark without taking damage, you can only attack once in a while, while beef can just tank the bite and you still take 0 damage, allow you to hit lots of hit to the shark before it jump back to ocean.

We are not riding ornery for pure damage, we ride them as they are also the most OP armor piece in the game, self repair, 100% mele reduction, 1000 durability, can be repair by veggies food, doesnt require equip slots, block all mele durability damage on unique armor piece like beequeen crown or bone helms.
 

If you use rider to tank, you have to also feed it food when it take damage anyway.

[00petar00]

27 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

this is what i dont get. Ornery has lower dps than shield of terror, less cost and less risk in boss fights. Also has less speed than a rider so you are wasting more time 90% of the time. So if the player likes to make autofarms i think makes sense to make them when you use a ornery beefalo too

weapons and armour are adquired passively as you clean the ruins to get gems and thulecite for decoration (if is a long run you will do it) so it doesnt take that much time and even less since they added both terraria armors

Ornery is annoying to use for longer periods because it requires you to feed him before mounting, that's why a lot of people don't choose this tendency and picking rider and you have to stop riding it to fight yourself which will also be annoying. Using ornery or default depending on the situation you don't need to carry any armor or weapons on you and materials to make them so it saves inventory slots too.

27 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

never tried a default tendency but looks like the best one

obviously im not against ornery beefalos, they are great and a very fun way to play the game, very useful in early days and with great sinergy with many characters 

Default is arguably the best one as it has the least annoyances tied to it but it has 50 damage with war saddle so a lot of creatures that would die if you had 51+ damage require one more hit. It is more difficult to get this tendency though.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

18 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

The 1000 hp 100% mele damage reduction, that why. If i face a hound wave as any character that not wendy/maxwell/wicker with stacked bees, i have to run kite for like 4 mins before i can start killing them, or i have to leave hound in the wild where it can bite me back later on. Ornery can just tank the entire wave, and slowly heal back to full in few days.

Problem with rider is it cant tank as it lost obedience when take damage.

The tankiness of beefalo allow you to fight without kiting in some situation, some lower hp bosses, which can boost it dps to darksword level when you kite perfectly.

you can tank as almost every character with higher effective hp plus the addition of having more dps and being able to be healed without risk at little cost when you know how to farm resources without wasting much time

 

do you have any source about the rider being unable to tank? never experienced it. Rider has 1000hp and can wear war saddle, doesnt reach the 50 treshold but what ever, hound waves were highly nerfed anyway

i wont sail with a beefalo in the boat, takes a lot of space for such little reward

 

im happy you like using ornery for tanking but i dont see your points relevant enough since all of them can be fixed by experience

16 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Ornery is annoying to use for longer periods because it requires you to feed him before mounting

that is my whole point but people are claiming is the best cuz tanking O.o

[Tranoze]

12 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

do you have any source about the rider being unable to tank?

Literally in my post.

35 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Problem with rider is it cant tank as it lost obedience when take damage
....

If you use rider to tank, you have to also feed it food when it take damage anyway.

Beefalo lose 1% obedience when taking damage if they are not tamed and ornery beefalo. Often, you dont have to tank if you fight 1v1 boss, as they are easy to kite, you often have to tank only when you vs herd of enemies like hound or bees, They deal lots of small instance of damage, which can drain beef obedience quite quick. Mobs i mentioned like monkey, ocean spider, or shark also deal multiple instance of damage in one go also.
 

if not inst.components.domesticatable:IsDomesticated() or not inst.tendency == TENDENCY.ORNERY then
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaDomestication(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_DOMESTICATION)
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaObedience(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_OBEDIENCE)
        end

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Literally in my post.

Beefalo lose 1% obedience when taking damage if they are not tamed and ornery beefalo. Often, you dont have to tank if you fight 1v1 boss, as they are easy to kite, you often have to tank only when you vs herd of enemies like hound or bees, They deal lots of small instance of damage, which can drain beef obedience quite quick. Mobs i mentioned like monkey, ocean spider, or shark also deal multiple instance of damage in one go also.
 

if not inst.components.domesticatable:IsDomesticated() or not inst.tendency == TENDENCY.ORNERY then
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaDomestication(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_DOMESTICATION)
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaObedience(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_OBEDIENCE)
        end

 

i though was only applied to non tamed beefalos. Ty for the info

[Well-met]

Most of them are really annoying to obtain or they don't last long, so it's hard to pick anything that isn't dark sword or hambat.

[Falkenpelz]

Honorable mention of the single person who whips people with kelp.

Also since everyone loves Hambat, according to Wickerbottom, half of the damage that the Hambat does is just the power of salmonella.

[gamehun20]

44 minutes ago, Falkenpelz said:

kelp

the only weapon that has a chance to instantly break

[Bugsworth]

15 hours ago, Tranoze said:

As i said before, you have to dock rider away from boss so it wont get hit as you dont use it for combat.

I've never needed to do that tbh.

[Yuuko]

16 hours ago, Tranoze said:

The 1000 hp 100% mele damage reduction, that why. If i face a hound wave as any character that not wendy/maxwell/wicker with stacked bees, i have to run kite for like 4 mins before i can start killing them, or i have to leave hound in the wild where it can bite me back later on. Ornery can just tank the entire wave, and slowly heal back to full in few days.

Problem with rider is it cant tank as it lost obedience when take damage.

The tankiness of beefalo allow you to fight without kiting in some situation, some lower hp bosses, which can boost it dps to darksword level when you kite perfectly.

When sailing, kite is impossible as boat is so small and when you vs ocean spider (when you try to harvest ocean tree nut) or monkey. And having ornery beefalo is much better than having darksword + what ever best armor you can come up with when vs those herds of enemies.
If you have a dark sword, and want to kill shark without taking damage, you can only attack once in a while, while beef can just tank the bite and you still take 0 damage, allow you to hit lots of hit to the shark before it jump back to ocean.

We are not riding ornery for pure damage, we ride them as they are also the most OP armor piece in the game, self repair, 100% mele reduction, 1000 durability, can be repair by veggies food, doesnt require equip slots, block all mele durability damage on unique armor piece like beequeen crown or bone helms.
 

If you use rider to tank, you have to also feed it food when it take damage anyway.

1000hp sounds so great but lets be real about what the pros and cons are.

Player => 150 health average.  Armor => 80% from log suit or football helmet.  Effective health => 750

Up that armor to 90%, effective health => 1500

Where beefs are good is the same place Wanda is good.  They can both shrug off small amounts of damage here and there fairly easily without much resource cost.  When it comes to total health pool a beef sits about where players do.  The reason you find it easier to kite out hounds isn't really their tanking ability, its having both their damage AND move speed at once where a player switching between a weapon and cane loses movement speed and requires a lot more actions from the player which can easily get you overrun.  You don't feel how much health they lose because you don't see the health bars, and they recover fairly quickly but they can easily die if you try to actually tank and trade through much of a fight.

Quote

if not inst.components.domesticatable:IsDomesticated() or not inst.tendency == TENDENCY.ORNERY then
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaDomestication(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_DOMESTICATION)
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaObedience(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_OBEDIENCE)
        end

I always wondered why they did that line of code...  Its possibly code that was part of an earlier implementation that never got trimmed with the final release.  We have these values in tuning: edit = the code above reads like this: If not domesticated or not ornery then reduce domestication and obedience if attacked.  So this would not apply to any fully domesticated beefs.  Its probably reducing the ornery penalty for a beef taking damage while being tamed still.

BEEFALO_MIN_DOMESTICATED_OBEDIENCE =
        {
            DEFAULT = 0.8,
            ORNERY = 0.45,
            RIDER = 0.95,
            PUDGY = 0.6,
        },

This ensures that only an Onery can lower obedience low enough to not be mounted, ie why you have to feed it before riding it always.  Other tendencies will never care about obedience once fully domesticated.

idk its possible I'm wrong, but I just tested getting hit on a rider beef about a dozen times and didn't need to feed it to mount.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

idk its possible I'm wrong, but I just tested getting hit on a rider beef about a dozen times and didn't need to feed it to mount.

i never experienced it even when i used rider to fight but also i dont usually tank so i took the other comment as true

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Up that armor to 90%, effective health => 1500

 

and you can heal safely

[Cloakingsumo198]

The morning star is pretty cool and fun but only really in spring otherwise hambat is almost always effective and reliable

[ArubaroBeefalo]

59 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

The morning star is pretty cool and fun but only really in spring otherwise hambat is almost always effective and reliable

i like to use the morning star in the caves during winter

when i played wurt i made a bundle with sunfish and clean the ruins plus the depthworms with it

and with every character but warly i go during winter to fight toad and sometimes fw so in summer i have fresh ruins 

[Tranoze]

5 hours ago, Shosuko said:

idk its possible I'm wrong, but I just tested getting hit on a rider beef about a dozen times and didn't need to feed it to mount.

Dozen = 12. Rider beef have 95% obedience on minimum as long as it doesnt get hit. When it get hit 12 times, obedience go to 83%, mean still rideable.
If you dont feed it anything, obedience wont go up.

For beef to be mountable, you need 50 obedience.
For rider beef to go to bad state, it has to be hit 45 times.
For default beef, it has to be hit 30 times.

If you get obedience below 40, it might unsaddle itself.

Each food you feed it increase the amount of hits it can take before it stop allow you to ride by 10 times.

 

[Yuuko]

6 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Dozen = 12. Rider beef have 95% obedience on minimum as long as it doesnt get hit. When it get hit 12 times, obedience go to 83%, mean still rideable.
If you dont feed it anything, obedience wont go up.

For beef to be mountable, you need 50 obedience.
For rider beef to go to bad state, it has to be hit 45 times.
For default beef, it has to be hit 30 times.

If you get obedience below 40, it might unsaddle itself.

Each food you feed it increase the amount of hits it can take before it stop allow you to ride by 10 times.

 

I don't think that's true.  The code you shared before is here, with some comments and another bracket of relevant code

Spoiler

if not inst.components.domesticatable:IsDomesticated() or not inst.tendency == TENDENCY.ORNERY then
    inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaDomestication(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_DOMESTICATION)
    inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaObedience(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_OBEDIENCE)
 end

If NOT domesticated, then do the thing.  If the beefalo is fully tamed this code is skipped, so it doesn't apply to any fully domesticated beefs.

There is also this code block:

local function DoDeltaObedience(self, delta)
    local old = self.obedience
    self.obedience = math.max(math.min(self.obedience + delta, self.maxobedience), self.minobedience)
    if old ~= self.obedience then
        self.inst:PushEvent("obediencedelta", { old = old, new = self.obedience })
        return true
    end
end

This is the function called to update your obedience.  The important line is the self.obedience =

The math here determines what your obedience will be after after any change is made.  First it takes the LOWER between your new obedience value or your maxobedience, can't go higher than max.  Then the HIGHER between that and your minobedience, can't go below your minobedience.

Even if you used a console command to set your obedience below your min, when it checks for any change it will just set it back to your minobedience.

If you have some evidence that a fully domesticated beef of any type can toss their saddle please share.

16 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

never tried a default tendency but looks like the best one

obviously im not against ornery beefalos, they are great and a very fun way to play the game, very useful in early days and with great sinergy with many characters 

I think Wendy is a great person for Ornery beef because she gets her Abi damage boost on top of ornery + war saddle, also abi can distract most mobs if she needs to feed and mount in a pinch.  The hassle of feeding before mounting is why I usually use a default over an ornery.  I like that it can still hit 50 damage with a war saddle, and 75 with a volt goat jelly.  Warly is the one I like to tame a beef for, and usually after the first year I have all the volt goat jelly I want.

I haven't tried a rider yet.  The lower damage is unappealing as I do like using the beef for smaller fights like spider, tallbirds, and hound attacks.  I've lost too many beef to bosses, so I always leave them a screen away and do the fight by hand lol.  Is the speed difference between default and rider that much that I might prefer it though?  I've made the glossomer saddle and swapped it with the war saddle for longer distances, but I didn't feel like there was much difference.

[Tranoze]

51 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I don't think that's true. 

Let me highlight the important part of the code that you missed.

if not inst.components.domesticatable:IsDomesticated() or not inst.tendency == TENDENCY.ORNERY then
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaDomestication(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_DOMESTICATION)
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaObedience(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_OBEDIENCE)
        end

Even if the beef is tamed, as long as they are not ornery, they will lose obedience.

51 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

If you have some evidence that a fully domesticated beef of any type can toss their saddle please share.

If you want quick result, attack it once after it fully tamed, and stop (it obedience will go 0, domestic will go down but not to the point it lost it full tamed status) after a while it will shake off saddles.

This is from line 561 SGBeefalo.lua

if inst.components.rideable and inst.components.rideable:IsSaddled() and inst.components.domesticatable and inst.components.domesticatable:GetObedience() < TUNING.BEEFALO_KEEP_SADDLE_OBEDIENCE then
                inst.sg:GoToState("shake_off_saddle")

[Yuuko]

16 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Let me highlight the important part of the code that you missed.

if not inst.components.domesticatable:IsDomesticated() or not inst.tendency == TENDENCY.ORNERY then
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaDomestication(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_DOMESTICATION)
            inst.components.domesticatable:DeltaObedience(TUNING.BEEFALO_DOMESTICATION_ATTACKED_OBEDIENCE)
        end

Even if the beef is tamed, as long as they are not ornery, they will lose obedience.

As I shared in the last post, this code block prevents obedience from ever being below minobedience.

self.obedience = math.max(math.min(self.obedience + delta, self.maxobedience), self.minobedience)

So, irregardless of what you believe about that line, it does nothing.

Get some evidence of a domesticated beef tossing its saddle and I'll concede you're right, otherwise as I read the code its literally impossible.

16 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

If you want quick result, attack it once after it fully tamed, and stop (it obedience will go 0, domestic will go down but not to the point it lost it full tamed status) after a while it will shake off saddles.

Just took a fully domesticated rider beef.  Attacked it 3 times.  Domestication dropped to 10, it did not shake its saddle and I could mount it again without feeding it.

Because minobedience is 95 for a fully domesticated rider beef.

[Tranoze]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

As I shared in the last post, this code block prevents obedience from ever being below minobedience.

Hmm, ye, somehow i feel like the code block is an unintended feature (bug, but xD) as when beef is tamed it wont loose obedience anyway, so there is no point to check if the beef is ornery or not.
Thanks for pointing out.