Can we talk about Woodie? Pretty please?

[Memetan]

Woodie was one of the first characters to get a rework, and I was really happy about it, but some of the recent updates just make him "worst", let me explain:

First, The Shadow of Maxwell: Maxwell and Woodie were always in a competition for who's the best at getting wood, and at the same time they were always near to each other about it. At least Woodie has a good power to fight, right? And then Maxwell got reworked, now he's even better at getting wood and one of the top dps, so Woodie has to live under the big shadow of Maxwell, the one who can make the same tasks but better. Well at least they have different play stiles, Maxwell using puppets and Woodie using wereforms, so isn't that bad, isn't it?

Second, The Full Moon: Just one of Woodie's downsides, just one night to take care of, until the "Eye of the storm" update came and make every night full moon, but don't worry it's late game content, let's find Wagstaf, kill Celestial Champion and it will end. But Wikerbottom's rework came, and she can make full moon nights since the first autumn, of course you can ask her about stop spamming the books, but full moon night are so beneficial, (no Charlie bite, a Glommer every night that you can kill to get Krampus, the moon stone event, farming Werepigs, etc...) except for Woodie, so people ask me to change character or leave, of course Woodie can sleep every night or go to caves to avoid transforming, but it's annoying.

I ask to let him have his body slot equipment in wereform since Woodie doesn't drop his backpack, and using things like Lazy forager, Magiluminescence, Live giving amulet, bone armor, or even the belt of hunger would be fantastic. And some kind of idol or glasses made of thulecite, glass or moon rock to prevent transform when full moon.

If you read all of these, thank you and tell me if you see it the same way, or you are more optimistic, it will help me.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Memetan said:

First, The Shadow of Maxwell: Maxwell and Woodie were always in a competition for who's the best at getting wood

they arent in any competition, some players like to compare them like if the game and their kit was only based on chopping trees

is like the absurd wigfrid vs wolfgang topic

if this game was a moba i would understand it but in a sandbox game and them having such different kits is a non sense

[Dextops]

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

they arent in any competition, some players like to compare them like if the game and their kit was only based on chopping trees

that'd be true if woodie also wasn't outclassed in every other aspect of his kit. When it comes to something like this it's an extremely important point to bring up and imo it was never a competition maxwell was always flatout the best.

[Evelo]

When Woodie got his first mini refresh, I was excited. However, Klei removed Lucy's love for Woodie and turned her into a tree murdering demon. I miss when chopping too many trees caused Woodie to turn into the Werebeaver because you had ebbs and flows and Lucy was frantically trying to get Woodie to stop.
I am hopeful that eventually Klei touches up Woodie and in that re-adds Lucy's frantic nature for caring about Woodie.
Currently he feels too focused on the transformation. Back in Don't Starve Solo Woodie felt like he had a curse, you had anxiety and had to listen to your beloved Axe to not transform. It was super fun and I loved it. Now I never touch Woodie because he just feels like Wilson+.

[Juanasdf]

10 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Lucy was frantically trying to get Woodie to stop.
I am hopeful that eventually Klei touches up Woodie and in that re-adds Lucy's frantic nature for caring about Woodie.

She still worries about woodie when you eat a monster meat!

I actually like Woodie being a Wilson+, he's not strong, which means he has no real downside (full moon transformation is negligible) but he's not weak either, his chopping speed is a neat perk to have.

I feel like Woodie is in a good place, the problem is the permanent full moon and his inability to do anything about it.

His transformations are, again, neat, but not strong enough for him to need a downside to balance them out.

[MadMatt]

3 minutes ago, Juanasdf said:

but he's not weak either

Two of his three forms are almost completely outclassed by items/methods you can get by using similar costs and which last much longer. The other one becomes useless after the first autumn. It's not a good spot to be in having to justify using your perks over easily acquired and more effective alternatives anyone can use.

Woodie needs more incentive to use his forms, he objectively is a bad character that only has superficial qualities that'd make him attractive to any player. I also don't think he should go into the direction of letting him ignore his Wereforms more effectively. Make them strong/cheap enough to where you would actually be interested in using them in non-niche situations, not make him more bland than he already is.

[Juanasdf]

11 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

Two of his three forms are almost completely outclassed by items/methods you can get by using similar costs and which last much longer. 

I get what you mean with how the moose has hambat damage and the goose is outclassed by a walking cane and roads or a beef.

But the moose's AOE damage is pretty useful against some mobs and the ability to walk over water is something no other character has, even though exploration is mainly done during the early game, locating more ocean resources / biomes is definitely easier / less risky with him.

[maxwell_winters]

In my opinion, the biggest issue with current Woodie is lack of progression. Recent reworks did a great job by giving the character personal goals to achieve in the late game. WX collects circuits. Wicker gathers a huge library of books. Maxwell obtains shadow equipment to buff his puppets. Wigfrid writes songs. Wurt and Webber build their armies. Wanda creates a teleportation network. Warly stacks up on ingredients for his dishes and spices. Even Wolfgang has a gembell for the late game.

In other words, day 100 WX/Wicker/Maxwell are stronger than day 10 WX/Wicker/Maxwell. However, day 100 Woodie is about the same as day 10 Woodie if not worse due to moonstorms. 

[MadMatt]

7 minutes ago, Juanasdf said:

I get what you mean with how the moose has hambat damage and the goose is outclassed by a walking cane and roads or a beef.

But the moose's AOE damage is pretty useful against some mobs and the ability to walk over water is something no other character has, even though exploration is mainly done during the early game, locating more ocean resources / biomes is definitely easier / less risky with him.

I mean that's kinda the issue, innit? Three separate forms and you could only bring up TWO uniquely useful things: AOE and ocean exploration. Yeah i'll use the Moose to clear out a spider quarry, and the Goose to search for Moon Quay, but in what other situation would I care to use these things? Even the things he's good at come with pretty significant limitations and asterisks. You can't gather ocean materials without a boat, your AOE is liable to getting you killed and only works against very specific groups of enemies... 

I just want to be encouraged to use the cool transformations a little bit more in a few more situations, not bash my head against a wall trying to have fun  

[Juanasdf]

20 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

I mean that's kinda the issue, innit? Three separate forms and you could only bring up TWO uniquely useful things: AOE and ocean exploration. Yeah i'll use the Moose to clear out a spider quarry, and the Goose to search for Moon Quay, but in what other situation would I care to use these things?

Honestly I get you, but I still like him how he is now lol, probably because when I start a new world I almost always go Woodie, and having those things can help a ton early. Tbh I don't see a problem with a character being useful early and not in lategame or vice-versa.

Probably why my favorite characters are Woodie and Wanda, they each shine at different stages of the game.

24 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

You can't gather ocean materials without a boat

This is why i said locate and not gather, but yeah, it's a shame you can't get em honestly.

[ShadowDuelist]

I agree with what was mostly mentioned above, Woodie has IMO two problems that are unrelated and independent of Maxwell: The perma full moons making him unplayable, and lack of progression to his wereforms, making them a one trick pony for the early game mostly.

I think the problems we should focus are related to those two things, and not if it's better or worse at X than Maxwell.

@Riddla published a Woodie “rework” mod recently with some solutions that I think are clever and much closer to the Woodie we all want,

Spoiler

Even though I disagree with the mod’s treeguards spawning mechanics changes which I’m not sure why were made in first place, since that’s not a problem. But other than that the progression he introduces for the wereforms are very neat

If anyone is interested to read, I'll leave the link below.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2922557949
 

[ButterStuffed]

Give Moose hit stun resistance/immunity and reward tanking hits with faster attacking or more resistance, Give Beaver back the capability of replenishing the were meter by biting/eating logs, Give goose access to Woodies inventory, let it pick up and drop items and let it eat food.

Now give Woodie the ability to transform between any of his three forms, but ONLY the form that is triggered via the respective idol gains the additional power. Full moon transformations grant ALL forms these buffs.

The idols might need to cost a little more to warrant the buff, while eating two monster meat would still trigger the were form, but not give any buffs.

How does that sound?

[abrocator]

Wigfrid and the Moose

[ShadowDuelist]

6 hours ago, abrocator said:

Wigfrid and the Moose

A friend showed me that, and even though it is true and fun (I always valued wigfrids assisting me as a moose) it’s sort of debatable if it’s worth doing. Let me explain why:
 

- First of all you need another character, which for a fight like BQ could have been Wendy who will make the fight a lot faster and easier.

- Second, the Wigfrid character needs to be heavily armed, and probably with the same armor Wigfrid uses in one fight against let’s say BQ to assist a moose, it’s very likely that the same amount of armor but shared between the two characters when the other character is a Wolfgang, the whole fight will be faster and the Wigfrid does not have to have as much responsability in the fight. Wigfrid will keep a marble armored Wolfgang just as healed or even more.

So I get the point of the video which is to highlight the moose, and showcase a viable way to make it better if you really like Woodie, but I think it’s a complicated way to give the moose some use.

I’m not saying the moose should be as powerful as Wolfgang to be useful or just don’t use it, what I mean is that a solution like “the moose becomes good but only if you have a Wigfrid or a Wortox with you” doesn’t solve much for the lack of moose progression itself, or the painful experience Woodie will have during the moonstorm, with and without a Wigfrid.

TL ; DR: it is a fun combo for sure, but should it be the main way to make the moose useful against bosses?

[Anthony_L3hr]

I've always wanted more interaction and mechanics with Lucy, I feel like they completely left her behind and focused just only Woodie's were-forms. Not to say his were-forms shouldn't be a major focus in his character but Lucy definitely deserves newfound love too!

[Yuuko]

13 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Even though I disagree with the mod’s treeguards spawning mechanics changes which I’m not sure why were made in first place, since that’s not a problem. But other than that the progression he introduces for the wereforms are very neat

If anyone is interested to read, I'll leave the link below.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2922557949
 

Cool mod.  I think the reason spawning treeguards was swapped is because beaver gets a bonus when fighting them.  It makes no sense to gain a bonus to fighting a mob in a form that specifically never spawns that mob.  imo its much better to give the tree guards to beaver for living log farming and leave woodie to chopping trees for logs.

[Cheggf]

4 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

TL ; DR: it is a fun combo for sure, but should it be the main way to make the moose useful against bosses?

Weremoose is an infinite amount of free moggles, thulecite suit, ham bat, and high tier clothing for all types of weather. If you don't have a Wigfrid teammate you can eat jellybeans.

I don't see people asking that Everything Encyclopedia does something after you have all the recipes, or that the battle spear & battle helm need buffs since rich players don't use them, or that Wurt & Wanda should have their powers sooner. It's only Woodie that needs all of his powers to be equally useful at all parts of the game.

[MadMatt]

17 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

infinite

actually lasts 4 minutes under ideal conditions, 12 maximum

18 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

free

actually costs 40 sanity, 20 health, and your ability to use any and all items for the entire duration

Your comparison to other characters are equally invalid, since they offer things which will always be useful once acquired regardless of when they are acquired.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Weremoose is an infinite amount of free moggles, thulecite suit, ham bat, and high tier clothing for all types of weather. If you don't have a Wigfrid teammate you can eat jellybeans.

thulecite suit doesnt have speed penalty plus doesnt restrict you from using walking cane or healing items/food, hambat does more dps than moose and clothing doesn't restrict you from cooling down/heat up your temperature when that high tier clothing perk times out. Bringing up jelly beans only shows how weak moose is

atleast is way more useful than some lightnings...

[dois raios]

It would be cool if you could extend the duration of the wereforms by doing the intended function, plus all wereform should decrease the weremeter faster while stading still, isntead of needing to fight/gnaw things. (Basically all wereforms would be like weregoose to untransform).

Just an idea, idk if it would be good in-game

[ArubaroBeefalo]

19 minutes ago, dois raios said:

It would be cool if you could extend the duration of the wereforms by doing the intended function, plus all wereform should decrease the weremeter faster while stading still, isntead of needing to fight/gnaw things. (Basically all wereforms would be like weregoose to untransform).

Just an idea, idk if it would be good in-game

maybe i didnt understand what you sre suggesting but what you described is how every form works. With a little exception for the beaver since fighting also reduce the meter drain rate 

[dois raios]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maybe i didnt understand what you sre suggesting but what you described is how every form works. With a little exception for the beaver since fighting also reduce the meter drain rate 

You cant extend how much time you stay as any wereform, all have a max time of 4 minutes.

And about standing still to untransform, it is only valid to weregoose.

Weremoose needs to fight and werebeaver needs to gnaw to do not untransform in seconds.

What I am saying is that all wereforms needing to stay still to untransform, and not only weregoose.

[Datanon]

i feel like the weremoose charge attack should deal much more damage than it currently does for the duration of the animation lock

i dont know what other changes i would make to woodie

[Cheggf]

7 hours ago, Datanon said:

i feel like the weremoose charge attack should deal much more damage than it currently does for the duration of the animation lock

i dont know what other changes i would make to woodie

It's really good at clearing groups. Only Wendy, the dedicated aoe character, is better. If it did notably more damage than it does now it'd make him better at aoe than the character who's whole deal is aoe.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

On 2/19/2023 at 1:34 AM, Dextops said:

that'd be true if woodie also wasn't outclassed in every other aspect of his kit. When it comes to something like this it's an extremely important point to bring up and imo it was never a competition maxwell was always flatout the best.

in some reward sure but maxwell cant outclasse woodie in exploration or aoe damage. Im in for a woodie buff but i dont see why we should compare them when woodie is a very good chopper with other perks and maxwell is a very good chopper with another different perks and wurt is a very good chopper with different perks and warly is a no bad chopper with different perks and wolfgang is a no bad chopper with different perks and suddenly is second autumn and bearger comes

my point is that as long as they feel different and fun who cares if someone is better at something than other. Precisely, imo, what woodie need the less is be improved at wood gathering when his chopping perks are really good and useful in every stage of the game (plus the sinergy with honey spice) while his other 2 forms are mediocre and nearly useless in mid game (and even in early in the case of the moose...) and full moon having more presence makes him in more need for other changes