New content for existing and veteran players

[evilcat19xx]

Disclaimer: appreciate the developers' continued work. The game is my favorite indie game ever. That aside, I have some criticisms and suggestions regarding the recently released DLC and updates.

Spaced-out DLC is never finished and is not completely realized. It is a solid foundation, but it is a bare-bone structure and has been left unattended. Tons of work by the dev team has been done on the Spaced out DLC, and now we have a working space system (almost a working system), but there is little in terms of exploration. At the time, we are ready to explore the space, none of the points of interest are intriguing enough. The one-time space travels are not fun. "Let's put an artificial barrier on Reed fiber, Arbor tree , etc".The space aspect of the game can improve a lot. Solving some of the micromanagement problems, providing more freedom for players to design and automate their rockets, a much larger space map, space stations, and many more ideas. Right now, space is dull, lifeless, and dead since there is nothing to find out there.

So many POIs and only a few of them are interesting for more than a once visit

Adding a hermit dupe does not improve the game (it is more like a Don't starve update), and the Somnium Synthesizer is another half-baked idea that most players avoid due to excessive micromanagement. These updates have little to no impact on the long-term enjoyment of the game. Seed mutation is more like a failed concept, so we don't discuss it.

If Oni wants to continue to grow for many years coming, like Minecraft. We need to gain new players and keep our current player base to achieve that goal. That means new fancy content like the Hermit dupe may attract new players, but we also need a bit of content to feed our existing and veteran player base (Geo-tuner could be an example of an interesting, game-changer addition)

Since most of the player base never passes the mid-game, the endgame has been mostly ignored (My endgame definition is the time you have stable energy, food, and water resources, generally around turn 700).
Some smart minor updates could improve the game for many existing Oni players. I provided a few suggestions before in this link: HERE.

Only a few dupes got sick to set up a Sporechid to flex

[Sasza22]

I got to agree that the radiation stuff doesn`t feel finished. Especially when we look at datamined stuff or things that didn`t get removed from the database (nuclear apothecary, gamma mush). The radiation ended up as just a research resource and is usually fulfilled by planting wheezeworts rather than gathering uranium which is a shame. Some ways to improve it abit would be:

- A rad lamp powered by radbolts rather than raw uranium ore. It would be a reason to keep producing those regularly.
- Removing radiation from wheezeworts and adding a decorative plant that does that but needs to be cooled.
- A radbolt powered recreation item would be nice. It`s some variety and another needed use for radiation.
- Nuclear alchemy. Give us an alchemy engine to change lead to gold (or gold to lead since the latter is harder to renew).

Still this wouldn`t fix all the issues. I think there`s a bigger porblem with the game atm.

The problem is a lack of meaningful reason to do stuff. Yes you got a few simple and grindy win coditions but beyond that there isn`t anything you might want to do. The story traits highlight that. You can do the little missions but what they give you? A morale and stat boost. A new dupe with a unique trait. A critter morpher. Ok but do you need any of that? Not really. So what do you need? Now that`s the question. What do we need in our game? What should be the reward for completeing a story trait or a colony imperative? This is what we will be playing for. We want rewards for our quests. Now ask yourself what would be a reward worth pursuing in the game?

Imo there should be some forgotten gravitas tech that`s like the pseudoscience station in DS. Stuff that allws you to create insane "magical" stuff but requires you to colonize a hostle planetoid and keep dupes working there to keep the knowledge "unlocked". It would also make use of the rare resources that currently only get used due to their stats. Maybe there could also be new resources introduced like refined neutronium that would also require mining by high level dupes also in a hostile enviroment.

[Unfawkable]

On 1/15/2023 at 1:18 AM, Sasza22 said:

Imo there should be some forgotten gravitas tech that`s like the pseudoscience station in DS. Stuff that allws you to create insane "magical" stuff but requires you to colonize a hostle planetoid and keep dupes working there to keep the knowledge "unlocked". It would also make use of the rare resources that currently only get used due to their stats. Maybe there could also be new resources introduced like refined neutronium that would also require mining by high level dupes also in a hostile enviroment.

Exactly this. I want to do complicated over the top things to manage colonies, but it really feels bad when the reward is +3 stats. Give me something cool, magical and outrageous. Let my dupes fly through the void of space between planetoids without a rocket, give me tech to move planetoids around, let me build stargate portals, give me shiny stuff but make it expensive and hard to get.

In essence I like the story traits, but the things it grants really needs to be more engaging. As for the radiation system, I completely agree it feels unfinished. Especially the crashed satellite trait which makes almost the entire system obsolete if you play with it. Both the radiation and plant mutation need an overhaul, and I really hope we'll be getting those at some time, or that a good rebalance mod will surface.

[bughouse26]

I tend to agree with the feedback re: story traits. Some suggestions instead that I think would help keep intermediate/advanced players more engaged:

1. challenge maps/scenarios. rather than the standard achievements such as launching to the temporal tear, have a challenge map where there is some unique win condition. e.g. deliver 50 kwh of power for 50 cycles uninterrupted, or deliver X kg of gas/liquid/solid within Y cycles. difficulty could scale with the extreme materials such as molten salt, rock gas, liquid tungsten, etc. difficulty could also scale with absence of key input materials. e.g. no water/steam geysers.

2. add or augment existing buildings to accept more exotic input materials. e.g. perhaps allow the reactor to accept molten salt or molten cobalt for an additional heat amplification vs. water. e.g. a new rocket engine that requires liquid carbon.

3. more performance improvements. late game maps tend to slow to a crawl and become unplayable.

4. enable starting maps with mid-game materials/research so that that players have the option of avoiding a big early game grind until atmo suits/steel.

[asurendra]

51 minutes ago, bughouse26 said:

1. challenge maps/scenarios. rather than the standard achievements such as launching to the temporal tear, have a challenge map where there is some unique win condition. e.g. deliver 50 kwh of power for 50 cycles uninterrupted, or deliver X kg of gas/liquid/solid within Y cycles. difficulty could scale with the extreme materials such as molten salt, rock gas, liquid tungsten, etc. difficulty could also scale with absence of key input materials. e.g. no water/steam geysers.

Yes, yes and yes! Right now game has a lot of mechanics but no reason to use them. Why we need thermium if almost every build can use steel? Why should we mine space POIs if geysers provide more than enough resources? Why we need +5 stats from sintetezer if almost everything could be fully automated and dupes dont have tasks to do?

I tried to make game challenging. Support 50 or more dupes, etc. But its totally senseless: I cant found tasks for them, and supporting idle dupes... Its just meh

[gigamoi]

I can't help but notice that OP seems to be playing on the Terrania cluster. I believe most of the concerns discussed here can be alleviated by playing on a more difficult cluster type. I think challenge to veteran players is meant to be provided by moonlet clusters with most of the difficulty residing not in the end game space exploration, but the mid game base and industry expansion with the new constraints implied by the various biomes being separated by the void of space. I think playing on such maps leads the player to develop new creative solutions to solve "old problems" with new constraints, such as shipping or limited local availability of resources.

 

For instance, a radioactive ocean moonlet start with no teleporter will have plenty of water, but not much metal nor power in its classical forms and no iron nor coal nor potential plastic source. The desolands moonlet neady will have all of those, but sustained oil extraction here will require water but this asteroid doesn't have much. To get spoilfree food you will have to either pierce the flipped asteroid crust or go all the way to the tundra asteroid and you will have to make do with spiced pickled meal in the mean time for similar results.

 

I agree that there isn't necessarily much to do in late game, but I think the meat and potatoes of this game resides in mid game.

[asurendra]

Quote

For instance, a radioactive ocean moonlet start with no teleporter will have plenty of water, but not much metal nor power in its classical forms

It have trees and a lot of water to support as many as you need. Thats basically means that every need is covered. Food? pips. Oxygen? Feel free to choose between spom and pdirt offgasing. Energy? Ethanol generators provide more than you can use. 

Only problem may be with cooling, but its highly likely that you get at least one cool water geyser that solve it. If not... Well, you still has extra cool radioactive biome that allow you to not care about heat for 500+ cycles... 

Conclusion: forest is OP. Trees need rebalancing. Right now they produce rate is ridiculously high. Even if we forget about ability to plant them wild

[pether]

On 1/15/2023 at 12:22 AM, evilcat19xx said:

Spaced-out DLC is never finished and is not completely realized.

I fully agree with your post. The DLC is great, made many things from vanilla much better and solved many issues I had with it, but it is clear that devs had more ideas that they could implement and had to abandon half of them. I don't blame them, they had to release it one day, it was in develpment much longer than initially anticipated and Christmas was perfect date for the release. But I agree - even being grate, the DLC is missing many QoL and features it should have.

On 1/15/2023 at 12:22 AM, evilcat19xx said:

we also need a bit of content to feed our existing and veteran player base

Some time ago I proposed this feature: New Game + . The idea is to save first duplicant (+maybe some resources) you send through the Tear, so you could then start the game with those. This would link all your games into one huge playthrough. Also, it would give more reason to loose the dupe for the tear, because it's now useless sacrifice... If combined with unique maps and story traits giving you permanent bonuses (like traits for the dupes, come on, it's in the name!) it would allow for some crazy meta-gaming

 

On 1/15/2023 at 1:18 AM, Sasza22 said:

- A rad lamp powered by radbolts rather than raw uranium ore. It would be a reason to keep producing those regularly.
- Removing radiation from wheezeworts and adding a decorative plant that does that but needs to be cooled.
- A radbolt powered recreation item would be nice. It`s some variety and another needed use for radiation.

Magical alchemy feels out of place in science-based game, but I fully support those ideas!

I really like how the radiation works, risk-and-reward theme is great and radiation sickness is most fun of all of them. But it's sad that in fact radiation is "make once and abandon" thing, since you need it only for the research... And maybe rockets... It's great, but it's not enough

[evilcat19xx]

6 hours ago, pether said:

The idea is to save first duplicant (+maybe some resources) you send through the Tear, so you could then start the game with those. This would link all your games into one huge playthrough.

This is a great idea to have a meta game. No one likes to leave their colony after hundreds of hours. Oni has the potential to have an endless mode with unlimited progress. Sending that one dupe to the Tear never felt satisfying, 

 

6 hours ago, pether said:

But it's sad that in fact radiation is "make once and abandon"

Many of the recent updates are like that. Feed the Hermit dupe and you are done with him. Get the Reed fiber and you are done with this planetoid. Grab a Wheezewort from this planetoid and would never come back here. There is so little tension in the game after the mid-game.

 

13 hours ago, gigamoi said:

I can't help but notice that OP seems to be playing on the Terrania cluster.

I have played with different starting clusters, and it only changes the early game and makes the game a bit more grindy. Take only a few dupes at the beginning (less food and oxygen usage), and you will not have much problem after that. Get to the surface asap, and then you can go and grab something else, or you even could immigrate to other planetoids. 

 

[gigamoi]

15 hours ago, asurendra said:

It have trees and a lot of water to support as many as you need. Thats basically means that every need is covered. Food? pips. Oxygen? Feel free to choose between spom and pdirt offgasing. Energy? Ethanol generators provide more than you can use...

Jeez man. That's just an example. I know it is not the worst start as far as starts are concerned. Go for a flipped asteroid with no water source nor power geyser if early game difficulty is what you are into. As far as what I like is concerned gameplay wise, to me the only difference between each moonlet starts are which asteroids are connected by teleporters. What I meant is that not having a central asteroid made it fun for me to automate my industrial processes to the extent I like, a process I call the mid-game growth. Having roadblocks in said process leads me to shape my way around them instead of just going for the most efficient route every time.

6 hours ago, evilcat19xx said:

I have played with different starting clusters, and it only changes the early game and makes the game a bit more grindy. Take only a few dupes at the beginning (less food and oxygen usage), and you will not have much problem after that. Get to the surface asap, and then you can go and grab something else, or you even could immigrate to other planetoids. 

Same as above. Those are early game concerns. I think I see what you mean by "makes the game a bit more grindy" but, if I am correct, that's precisely what I like about those moonlets. While I dislike the grind itself, I find it fun to automate my way out of it so, as long as I can find my way around it, as far as I am concerned, the more the merrier.

For instance, I will soon start a run on the flipped moonlet with teleporters on, on a seed with a volcano and a polluted water geyser on the desoland asteroid. The plan is to deal with the limited availability of reliably sourced water there by using the volcano as a heat source to both clean the water from that vent sand free and run a petroboiler, with no autominer involved as to keep the igneous rock. The only two other water consumers shall be oxygen generation and berry sludge for space as food shall be supplied through sulfur. Its all "mid game content" but I find it very fun to design such contraptions and to do such resource management.

 

The thing about your demand for "late game content" is that, if it is not to be just yet an other very complex but ultimately pointless task, it owes to give something worthy back. So those rewards are to be powerful and, as a result, they are likely to just result in power creep. That's why I am ultimately more interested in new systems to interact with in the mid game rather than something silly to do with thermium and insulation (even though I agree that those two are close to pointless).

[Kderosa]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:11 AM, gigamoi said:

I can't help but notice that OP seems to be playing on the Terrania cluster. I believe most of the concerns discussed here can be alleviated by playing on a more difficult cluster type. I think challenge to veteran players is meant to be provided by moonlet clusters

This just extends and drags out the mid-game as it makes obtaining some resources more difficult (reed fiber, gold, acorn, iron, oil/dreckos) and presents some supply-chain challenges.  But, once those challenges are overcome, the late game remains the same with the same short-comings (no real use for most rare resources other than vanity projects, no reason to colonize outer planets (as opposed to just making resource snatch and grabs), and almost no need to drill space POIs unless you've over-used what's available on the planets.  The game, as good as it is, lacks a late-game (which I'm defining as something to do with all those rare resources and outer planets you just spent hundreds of cycles building an infrastructure and supply chain to reach/obtain).   

[Charletrom]

I do two things to keep this wonderful game fresh and interesting:

1. edit worldgen files

2. Use the “customize recipes” mod by Fumihiko

editing worldgen files is really not that hard, you just need a basic text editor. Same with customize recipes. I’ll give you an example of a playthrough I just finished using this setup:

I edited the Rime classic asteroid to have a frozen forest start, and reduced sunlight levels while massively increasing surface radiation. The early game was a race to thaw out my water pockets while during midgame I was incentivized to build surface greenhouses to grow mutated plants, which was fun. Using the mod, I changed the recipe for repairing atmosuits to require plastic and glass, which made them a bit harder to manage, but in a fun way.

The possibilities with this approach are huge! Strongly recommend it for experienced players.

 

 

[gigamoi]

17 hours ago, Kderosa said:

This just extends and drags out the mid-game as it makes obtaining some resources more difficult (reed fiber, gold, acorn, iron, oil/dreckos) and presents some supply-chain challenges.  But, once those challenges are overcome, the late game remains the same with the same short-comings (no real use for most rare resources other than vanity projects, no reason to colonize outer planets (as opposed to just making resource snatch and grabs), and almost no need to drill space POIs unless you've over-used what's available on the planets.  The game, as good as it is, lacks a late-game (which I'm defining as something to do with all those rare resources and outer planets you just spent hundreds of cycles building an infrastructure and supply chain to reach/obtain).   

Yeah, as far as your point on the pointlessness of rare resources is concerned, I do agree and I would also like to have good reasons to get those. It's a shame really.

I was just challenging the idea that late-game is where the "new content for existing and veteran players" should necessarily be.

[Charletrom]

It would be cool if using thermium in buildings did more than just increase overheat temp. For example it could reduce power consumption by 10% or something. Isoresin could be used as a spice to increase calories by a certain amount. 

I find that supercoolant is really worthwhile as is, since it enables a lot of cool builds.

[Kderosa]

6 hours ago, gigamoi said:

I was just challenging the idea that late-game is where the "new content for existing and veteran players" should necessarily be.

I agree.  though for most experienced players who can bet past the mid-game, conquering the moonlets is only slightly more of a challenge and once you've done that you're still stuck in the same place without a late-game, unless your idea of a late game is to do vanity builds with no real in-game purpose other than being able to say you've done it.

2 hours ago, Charletrom said:

It would be cool if using thermium in buildings did more than just increase overheat temp. For example it could reduce power consumption by 10% or something. Isoresin could be used as a spice to increase calories by a certain amount. 

I find that supercoolant is really worthwhile as is, since it enables a lot of cool builds.

Right. There should be some small amount of isoresin available early on to obviate the need to make jerry-rigged liquid/air locks (your basic rocket living modules (an early game build) have actual airlocks! Really, they should call the game vacuum not included because that's the biggest time waster in the game), but thermium and insulation should be needed for some late-game build that allows you to "win" the game after the tear is opened.  And that "victory condition" should require you to colonize one or more of the outer planets to establish a supply chain for those resources (like the iso-resin tree planet), more than just the smash and grab operation that's needed now. there's almost no need to even visit the gassy-moo planet much less tame one, the regolith planet which has no purpose at all other than collecting artifacts, and the magma planet, which would be a fine challenge to tame the niobium volcano except that all the nobium you'll ever need is readily available by doing a little digging and recycling.  

[Sasza22]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:19 PM, Kderosa said:

would be a fine challenge to tame the niobium volcano except that all the nobium you'll ever need is readily available by doing a little digging and recycling

Imo this is just dumb. I don`t know why this wasn`t changed. It makes no sense to create extra niobium out of thin air. Well one thing is that it requires you to mine more tungsten and eventually tame a tungsten volcano but you`ll likely never need that much thermium.

[Nase]

I've been thinking about this after losing motivation to continue my last colony after making it self-sufficient. I think one of the main issues is that the DLC endgame is lacking is a requirement for using space materials and other complex builds. Imperatives are pretty straightforward to complete once you've got stable petroleum output and radbolt generation, and anything more advanced is just playing to complete self-imposed challenges. (Which can still be fun, of course! But only for so long once you realize there's no practical use for huge amounts of nobium/tungsten/resin/etc.)

 

I agree that the story packs, while interesting, only impact the midgame. Even changing the asteroid settings doesn't alleviate this; the endgame will always settle into more or less a similar playstyle with similar resource requirements outside of said self-imposed challenges.

 

I'd love to see more imperatives or even just difficulty sliders for the existing ones. They don't have to be complex reworks, could just build on what's already there. Even relatively small tweaks would lead to really big emergent changes in colony management and builds:

 

- Further distances for Temporal Tear and the Opener. This would put more focus on hydrogen rockets (which can entirely be ignored in the DLC) and/or building rocket refueling infrastructure on the more distance asteroids.

- Home Sweet Home but with added requirements for doing it on multiple/all the distance asteroids.

- Cosmic Archeology but require expensive space materials to restore certain artifacts. Right here is a super-simple way to require taming nobium volcanoes/resin trees and/or drilling lots of fullerine/graphite.

 

[babba]

I would like to play in one map, like in the original game - Without having ( invisible ) colonies forced on me and which require permanent cpu simulation time.

Dlc content, but just one true map with space exploration and space resource mining - Like in the original game.

That was the fantastic flair of the original game for me

For me the asteroids and rocket interior(s) micro management game play is like a lot of cut up maps, I would like to play in one big map and use my pc system resources just for this one big map. Please make it possible as a play option, dear Klei

The dlc was such a personal technical setback ( great technical Klei achievement though + asteroids play has its audience ) and personal disappointment for me.

If Colossal Order would suddenly fragment the big game map in Cities Skylines in to lots of map partitions, then players would freak out. There is a reason why the "Unlock all 81 Tiles" mod is so popular in that builder game.

----

BTW In all its years the base game of Cities Skylines has never crashed with my various computers, it is a game where I can use mods because the base game is always stable for me ( same with Factorio ). ONI is an unstable base game since years for me, that is why I don`t play with ONI mods.

Another downside with the ONI game is also that one can not reliable play a save game over longer periods, if one wants to have all future content and one does not want to edit around in the sandbox editor.

End of rant Need to fetch a coffee...

[Slvrsrfr]

ONI was a good study of what a good game could be like, but somewhere the heart is lacking the decisiveness to cut it loose. IMHO.

It has done what it could, the underlying systems are disparate and poorly meshed, the game has enough mild quirks that they amount to a drain on the (re-)play-ability, approachability, and play-through. It is time for it to be set-aside as a development concept and produce the result of the lessons learned from creating ONI. And subsequent development. The community should be proud of the performance it rendered for us. The studio staff grateful for the job security, and wonderful product they helped bring to life.

 But now it's time to lay out something more comprehensive, better conceptualized material. You'd get to start from scratch, but with the benefit of having produced ONI. All those things the programmers who were deeply involved can see issues get ironed out, logic applied to the numerous systems and mechanics. An opportunity to plan for more than fluff.

[evilcat19xx]

8 hours ago, Nase said:

I've been thinking about this after losing motivation to continue my last colony after making it self-sufficient. I think one of the main issues is that the DLC endgame is lacking is a requirement for using space materials and other complex builds. Imperatives are pretty straightforward to complete once you've got stable petroleum output and radbolt generation, and anything more advanced is just playing to complete self-imposed challenges. (Which can still be fun, of course! But only for so long once you realize there's no practical use for huge amounts of nobium/tungsten/resin/etc.)

100% correct.

8 hours ago, Nase said:

the endgame will always settle into more or less a similar playstyle with similar resource requirements outside of said self-imposed challenges.

True! No matter the starting point the endgame will be the same.

8 hours ago, Nase said:

Even relatively small tweaks would lead to really big emergent changes in colony management and builds:

 

- Further distances for Temporal Tear and the Opener. This would put more focus on hydrogen rockets (which can entirely be ignored in the DLC) and/or building rocket refueling infrastructure on the more distance asteroids.

Exactly! Small changes could improve the endgame significantly. Let's make the space map larger and introduce a new expensive rocket that needs some rare materials such as Niobium and Isoresin. 

4 hours ago, babba said:

For me the asteroids and rocket interior(s) micro management game play is like a lot of cut up maps

They never polished that...

4 hours ago, babba said:

I would like to play in one big map

I did that with changing the map size manually in the text file:

4 hours ago, babba said:

Another downside with the ONI game is also that one can not reliable play a save game over longer periods, if one wants to have all future content and one does not wand to edit around in the sandbox editor.

I fully agree with this. Every 10 turns in Oni generally takes me an hour to play. Repeating the early game after each update (that needs generation) and leaving the previous colony is not interesting. It takes hours to have a working research reactor(which is a problem in itself), and trying to build it again and again, is more like work than a game. 

1 hour ago, Slvrsrfr said:

ONI was a good study of what a good game could be like, but somewhere the heart is lacking the decisiveness to cut it loose. IMHO.

I don't see it this way, and I think it is a great game and a solid foundation since it provides us with hours of fun. However, most of the recent updates do not improve the players' game experience.These new DLC/update releases look great on paper, but they do not have any effects on the game. Devs (or maybe new devs) are super conservative and cautious not to destroy any of the current systems. 

 

[babba]

Any feedback to Klei and the community is great  ...There is not many ONI forum users left.

@evilcat19xxYour map is lovely  I would play like that...But I want to play the dlc content, without colonies. The colonies are IMHO, for myself, a waste of cpu time. I would like to have all the cpu time exclusively used on one big visible map ( like in the old base game ), with dlc space exploration, dlc space resource mining and all dlc content.

I understand the fans and joy of others for asteroid(s) play...my request would have been what I technically would have expected from the dlc release 2 years ago, as this used to be how the game technically worked.

Having all colonies in ram memory, hoping with the camera from one map zone to another - It drained/drains the fps game speed for so many players simulating this mainly invisible giant map + the rocket interior(s) mapping. It has been technically clever done by Klei ( for the asteroids game play and jumping to rocket interiors), but I really just want a mode to play in one big map, which gets all of a players pc resources ( the 1 cpu core the game uses ) dedicated to it. Like the game used to be...

P.S. Make the rocket interior game play ( micro management ) optional for players, there is those who love it and there is those which don`t want to do it ( anymore ). >>> Also: Blueprints in the normal game mode, please

A giant magnet

[asurendra]

I feel that big late game problem is lack of uses for any resource, not only space ones. Yes, we need many of them for building base, but after some structure has been built it works forever consuming only energy. No maintenance, no incidents, no replacement of spare parts. Our base consume oxygen, food and energy. That needs can be fullfield by one geyser: water  one. Other 20+ geysers just not necessary... Thats doesnt feel right. In real life 90% of population works in self-supporting industry. In ONI one dupe can run entire base and even being idle most of the day

[goboking]

It seems as if the consensus in this thread is a desire for an end-game shakeup, and I'm hoping for systems that reshape the way we play throughout the game (more potent diseases, combustible materials, new biomes, etc.) rather than something that changes niobium production from a vanity project to a necessity. 

[Sasza22]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:22 PM, goboking said:

more potent diseases, combustible materials, new biomes, etc.

All that is cool but that`s mid game content not late game. Even the most potent diseases won`t be an issue lategame, combustible materials will be contained or submerged in water, new biome mined out and tamed.

Late game stuff is more like advanced systems for faster transport. Big pipes, fully automated rockets (maybe even dupeless), more efficient forging, stuff that needs a lot of resources so we need to produce it.

I think space stations would be a good lategame option. They would cost a lot of resources and require advanced rocketry to put in place but in return they would allow you automate resource transport from the far planetoids to build more stuff like them. Or other space infrastructure like automated space mines placed on minable space resources and sanding stuff back in payloads. They would need refueling onece a while. If they are too far a payload sling could be installed to catch payloads and send them further. It would work for stuff launched from planetoids as well.

For on planetoid stuff we could get some improvement for dupes allowing them to work more efficiently like cyborg implants giving huge stat boosts but at a high morale requirement.

[babba]

RimWorld and Factorio have visitors and aliens for long term play motivation. Threats which scale in intensity and duration, depending on the players might, would also be handy for a players end game endurance fun.

More play joy can also come from playing together ( in general and/or against such end game challenges ).

Playing together requires a stable game foundation and a different development methodology, whereas Klei always implements new game crashes to the game via updates.

I would already be thankful if we could have blueprints in the normal game mode...also having blueprints for rocket interior maps and for whole rockets.

If players could exchange blueprints, then I would download the players best rocket interiors and would not have to spend micro management time inside rockets anymore, that would be such a relief !

P.S. Raining magma in the "home base map" could be a nice Klei game option challenge, like 10-40 tiles of magma raining down at a few thousand Celsius every 6-24 cycles and/or 10-40 cubes ice raining down ( call it meteor storm or whatever ). The forumistas wrote so often about challenging game ideas in the past, including myself...