Since klei just fixed the bee queen boat cheese, do you think they should tackle the other ones?

[Gashzer]

21 minutes ago, Dextops said:

That statement is so utterly absurd. There is not a single conceivable way where this could be implemented in a good way. You are just actively screwing solo players for no good reason cause you believe a boring boss with a few attacks should be an even worse resource dump

The average player in DST are terrible, ive played with so many people with 500-700hrs that cant solo bosses. DST is a hard, time-consuming game, we have the option to reduce player damage received now. If bee queen is too difficult for you to kill without glitching then turn on that option.

I can solo bee queen fine in autumn as walter with 9 bunnymen (9 hutches can be easily gathered from caves without farming for extra puffs). Removing bugs dooms no one, it forces people to actually engage with other mechanics and get better at the game. If you cheat, you only cheat yourself out of getting good 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I can solo bee queen fine in autumn as walter with 9 bunnymen

followers and ranged combat feels cheesier than tanking BQ in a boat...maybe killing BQ in a boat was so difficult for you

[Gashzer]

15 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

followers and ranged combat feels cheesier than tanking BQ in a boat...maybe killing BQ in a boat was so difficult for you

Hahaha its so funny that everyone here thinks followers (intended mechanic with many characters having perks devoted to it) are more cheesy than bugs 

It shows how deluded some forum users have become

[Dunk Mujunk]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

first you need 90 bunnymen hutches (you can get them in the first season cycles)

then you need 10 bazillion thulecite crowns, i also recommend farming shelmets or turtle shells just to be safe, since this is a raid boss, you must prepare obviously

cook a stack of mandrake soup (farm klaus for mandrakes) and you are good to go! now you can defeat bee queen legit without any filthy cheese

I know you are being silly, but 40ish Bunny Hutches will do the trick by themselves.

[Dextops]

29 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Hahaha its so funny that everyone here thinks followers (intended mechanic with many characters having perks devoted to it) are more cheesy than bugs 

It shows how deluded some forum users have become

No, it’s that you’re complaining about a strategy that just made tanking beequeen easier and talk about skill yet you use the least skillful strategy for beequeen imaginable. The only deluded thing is your opinions on cheese 

[Szczuku]

Some of you people sure do love talking like you are entitled to a difficult boss' op loot in the first autumn/winter. Like the game will become unplayable if you can't fight the first Deerclops while standing next to a Dfly furnace and wearing BQ's crown

I think Klei should fix exploits and then think how to improve a boss fight that people were so eager to look for exploints on, Ancient Guardian-style. Idk, maybe ice-flingo could target Lavae on its own. Then you'd just need to set up 1-2 flingos and keep them fueled, instead of having to play with an ice staff in the middle of the fight

[Cloakingsumo198]

I think this thread is doing a better job at encouraging the devs to keep doing fixes with the way conversation has been flowing.

[dois raios]

bee queen is in the same path as old anciet guardian, you can only hit 1-2 times if you want to kite, you need mag+cane to properly kite, the fight itself last for days and you cant make any mistake (penalty is too high for mistakes), and the ways that make the fight worth (in resources and time), are getting patched by klei, I guess at this point no one will be surprised if they rework her

[Cloakingsumo198]

If the best way to kill a boss is by facetanking it to ignore it's mechanics while bugging it out then I think there is clearly something wrong with the boss.

How fun/engaging it is and mechanically.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

28 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Some of you people sure do love talking like you are entitled to a difficult boss' op loot in the first autumn/winter. Like the game will become unplayable if you can't fight the first Deerclops while standing next to a Dfly furnace and wearing BQ's crown

but you can achieve that legit without much effort so i dont understand what are you trying to say

29 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

I think Klei should fix exploits and then think how to improve a boss fight that people were so eager to look for exploints on, Ancient Guardian-style. Idk, maybe ice-flingo could target Lavae on its own. Then you'd just need to set up 1-2 flingos and keep them fueled, instead of having to play with an ice staff in the middle of the fight

how flingos would improve the fight over having a little of skill to use ice staffs? at that point just remove the lavaes, wont make any difference

[HowlVoid]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Raid bosses are meant to be difficult. If people are extremely dependent on glitches to kill them (which from this thread seems to be the case), maybe they don't deserve the high-tier loot these raid bosses drop? 

Not sure why people seem to jump to this conclusion. A lot of us can kill bee queen just fine. I think if we can move past this line of thinking you might come closer to understanding the point many us are trying to make.

Ps here's video proof of me killing bee queen during winter while I also challenged myself to tame a beefalo and ruin rush with a beefalo at the same time.

https://youtu.be/GW1jNYQrjxc

This is part 2 

Im not great at the game by any means but the great thing about sandbox games is that you can challenge yourself if you want to.

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

Some of you people sure do love talking like you are entitled to a difficult boss' op loot in the first autumn/winter. 

Except you don't need exploits to even accomplish this. Entitlement has nothing to do with it.

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

The average player in DST are terrible, ive played with so many people with 500-700hrs that cant solo bosses. DST is a hard, time-consuming game, we have the option to reduce player damage received now. If bee queen is too difficult for you to kill without glitching then turn on that option.

I can solo bee queen fine in autumn as walter with 9 bunnymen (9 hutches can be easily gathered from caves without farming for extra puffs). Removing bugs dooms no one, it forces people to actually engage with other mechanics and get better at the game. If you cheat, you only cheat yourself out of getting good 

Do you think they don't have the same youtube?  Anyone with 500+ hours has probably checked yt, watched streams, etc.  If they can't beat the boss yet this means one of two things, either they choose not to employ the "cheese" meaning nothing is being ruined for them OR they failed to employ the cheese meaning its not a skill-less option.

I think you should reconsider whether people are somehow crippled by a reliance on cheese or whether its just another option on the table, often preferable for its reliability, and reusability compared to the more risky versions of the fights.  I mean, in thousands of hours of game time it is possible a person does a boss in more than one way...

For reference this is me:

Spoiler

 

and this person

Spoiler

 

is also this person

Spoiler

 

 imo the world is definitively less interesting with every removed interaction.

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

Some of you people sure do love talking like you are entitled to a difficult boss' op loot in the first autumn/winter. Like the game will become unplayable if you can't fight the first Deerclops while standing next to a Dfly furnace and wearing BQ's crown

I think Klei should fix exploits and then think how to improve a boss fight that people were so eager to look for exploints on, Ancient Guardian-style. Idk, maybe ice-flingo could target Lavae on its own. Then you'd just need to set up 1-2 flingos and keep them fueled, instead of having to play with an ice staff in the middle of the fight

Eh, sans any "cheese" strats, like literally just bee hats and ham bats, I can still do bqueen in first autumn.  If I forgo anything else I also want to do in first autumn its easy but if I still want to map out the world, do dfly, and hit up some ruins it might wait until spring...

What people like to call "cheese" is just strategy.  This is not an rpg, we don't need to grind xp to level our str and craft lv80 gear...  Its a sandbox game.  On a basic level we just run up to things and press F.  Its not that difficult, and truly in this genre variety is replayability.  If we lose variety we lose a reason to play.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

17 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Ps here's video proof of me killing bee queen during winter while I also challenged myself to play on console, tame a beefalo and ruin rush with a beefalo at the same time.

fixed :P <3

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, Dextops said:

No, it’s that you’re complaining about a strategy that just made tanking beequeen easier and talk about skill yet you use the least skillful strategy for beequeen imaginable. The only deluded thing is your opinions on cheese 

What you mean no skill? Walter is ranged yes but if you mess up its almost instant death due to bee allergy. And this forum has preached to the high heavens that Walter has one of, if not the most punishing downside of any character in the game. Hence only skilled players use him (like me )

In the past, anytime i gathered a group of randomers to fight bee queen in early first autumn with me on public servers (usually 3-4 players), i would be playing wendy. Someone would run to craft a boat..... Like this was the go to bug glitch even when their was enough people to do the fight sucessfully without it.

I would literally tell them its not needed, we have enough people! But nah nah they built the boat anyway and we all stood still holding F beside Abigail..... oh boy so much fun.... 95% of pub players rush to use the same glitches... it almost forces you to play solo if you want to experience fighting the boss with a different "strat"... it really takes the together out of dont starve together.

Yeah maybe bee queen needs reworked, but then again, maybe you are meant to tackle this boss with people/followers not completely solo! She has minions so bring your own minions. You see this in the trailer too, klei made some bunnymen hutches beside her.

 

 

 

[Capybara007]

cool ass thread the longer it gets the more it encourages the devs to rework an awful boss like bee queen

[ArubaroBeefalo]

24 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

cool ass thread the longer it gets the more it encourages the devs to rework an awful boss like bee queen

if they end up changing her i hope it will be to make her more dynamic without dropping difficulty to the ground. CC is a good fight because isnt repetitive while bq is kinda bland, 2 1st phases very similar and 3rd and 4th phase practically the same

[Yuuko]

26 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

cool ass thread the longer it gets the more it encourages the devs to rework an awful boss like bee queen

The AG rework, and other newer bosses like Celestial Champion have been great.  Bee Queen is one of the oldest DST bosses and it shows.  I think everyone would love to have Bee Queen reworked.  If they aren't going to do anything good while they're there, they might as well leave it as it is.

[00petar00]

7 hours ago, Iino said:

Why is there so much drama over this? It's KLei's game and they can do whatever they want with it, and I trust and support their decisions completely. It's not like they saw it one day and said "oh this exist let's patch it", countless thoughts unbeknownst to us went into this decision and I think it's awesome.

I literally admited to using this cheese so much I was feeding jellybeans to my eyemask, to me this is a huge lost but it's not the end of the world and I'll still play the game the exact same way.

The truth is that they literally saw it one day and decided to patch it as it was reported like a week ago while the same person reported lavae not breaking walls but it was denied by developer and they replied that it will be like that until the Dragonfly fight is reworked.

So there wasn't really any deep thought put into whether Bee Queen boat cheese should be removed or not as we can see from a person posting picture of BQ flying over water so you can't attack her, making the fight worse for players that don't cheese bosses like it happened with Klaus being able to ignore collision with loot stash.

[SullyD]

4 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Hahaha its so funny that everyone here thinks followers (intended mechanic with many characters having perks devoted to it) are more cheesy than bugs 

It shows how deluded some forum users have become

It is not wrong to use strategies and mechanics that the game offers.
Imagine trying to be ''pro'' in 2D survival game. I can't take most of these people seriously.

[Cloakingsumo198]

44 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

BQ flying over water so you can't attack her

Can't that be fixed by making bee queen extremely aggressive to players on land first and if there's none there target those on water?

I don't know code could be not that simple.

[00petar00]

7 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Can't that be fixed by making bee queen extremely aggressive to players on land first and if there's none there target those on water?

I don't know code could be not that simple.

If BQ was more aggressive and chased players you wouldn't even be able to use the "pro" strategy (panflute method) as you wouldn't be able to get that many hits in, meaning you'd have to use bunny hutches, tentacles or catapults if you wanted to do it solo which are all easier and 2/3 strategies are character reliant.

It could be simple to fix, I am not a developer so i don't know, but it was unnecessary to begin with and just takes development time.

[Guille6785]

6 hours ago, Gashzer said:

People forget Bee queen is a RAID boss. Not a first autumn boss you rush by day 11... it should take the average player an ingame year of building up a base and gathering resources/thulecite gear/healing/bunnymen backup before even thinking of challenging bee queen solo.

the average player can never even kill bee queen in the first place even with all the cheese methods that exist, I'm not sure what the point of bringing this up is, the boat method didn't let anyone kill bq that couldn't have with any other method

in order to kill bq first autumn you need to have quite a good understanding of the game's mechanics already which is what a good game is supposed to reward, a new dark souls player may get their ass kicked by a boss for 3 hours while someone who has 5000 hours on the franchise may kill them in 30 seconds at SL1 without getting hit, rewarding players for their knowledge and experience is what makes games like these legendary

if a player of my caliber was still forced to wait an in game year to kill 1 raid boss this game would be garbage

6 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Either turn down the damage amount in settings or use legit mechanics the game gives you...

• speed boost (mag/cane/cobblestone) for kiting grumbles then tank bee queen with thulecite crown and healing.
• or bunnymen army
• or celestial portal to change to winona for catapults
• or weremoose woodie with were pig army (lose royal jelly to pigs but easy method to do for blueprint and crown)
• or wurt for merm army
• or webber for spider army
• or wendy who is still as good as ever with abigail
• or new maxwell with shadow prison/thulecite gear/duelists is pretty good too if you can juggle different spells well.
• or walter with mag/cane/cobblestone with slingshot thulecite rounds can destroy bee queen easily without getting hit once just takes awhile (its my personal go to, i do this method with 9 football helmet bunnymen to speed up first 2 phases)

The game gives you so many options to kill bee queen legit, why is everyone crying over one bug being removed? You have plenty of methods listed above that rewards good prep work to wreck her.

half the methods you listed are cheese

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

I can solo bee queen fine in autumn as walter with 9 bunnymen (9 hutches can be easily gathered from caves without farming for extra puffs). Removing bugs dooms no one, it forces people to actually engage with other mechanics and get better at the game. If you cheat, you only cheat yourself out of getting good 

you cheese bee queen and then talk about cheating yourself out of "being good". ok

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Some of you people sure do love talking like you are entitled to a difficult boss' op loot in the first autumn/winter. Like the game will become unplayable if you can't fight the first Deerclops while standing next to a Dfly furnace and wearing BQ's crown

6 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Raid bosses are meant to be difficult. If people are extremely dependent on glitches to kill them (which from this thread seems to be the case), maybe they don't deserve the high-tier loot these raid bosses drop? 

I've already lost count of how many of these "well if you complain so much about the boat method being removed then maybe you just can't kill bee queen in any other way and you don't deserve her loot" accusations people like you have thrown around throughout this debate, it's honestly sad and petty to have to stoop that low

although it's also really funny because the person you're telling that to has also done all of these:

Spoiler

and the list goes on an on, I counted and in most of my vids that have a bossfight I don't actually cheese it, which you might find interesting considering you accused me of only cheesing my runs

me wanting cheese to stay in the game has nothing to do with me being a bad player who can't kill the boss in any other way and has everything to do with the fact that the devs keep wasting their time fixing things that didn't need to be fixed and making the game worse for everyone whereas the actual major issues that have been in the game for years haven't even been acknowledged by them, to put it bluntly:

-attack speed still fluctuates
-lazy explorer still causes fuelweaver to lose aggro at random
-wurt still has unresolved bugs with her merms
-loading times are still a complete nightmare and don't give a damn if you have your worlds on an SSD
-hosts still experience very noticeable input delay when caves are enabled
-characters will still randomly drop attacks halfway through even if you clearly pressed the attack button
-half of wigfrid's songs are still useless
-bernie still doesn't work in enlightenment

and countless other issues that would take me forever to type out here, but since fixing these would take wayyy too much effort the devs would rather waste their time picking random things from the bug tracker, slapping a band-aid fix on them in 5 minutes and then call it a day so they can meet their awful deadlines

[Cloakingsumo198]

Is toadstool getting stuck behind ponds cheese?

[HowlVoid]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Is toadstool getting stuck behind ponds cheese?

I think toadstool is a mushroom.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

25 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

me wanting cheese to stay in the game has nothing to do with me being a bad player who can't kill the boss

and the best part is the people who is complaining about cheese being in the game are cheesers