WILSON REWORK, what concept do you prefer? (POLL)

[All thats Well]

PS: the beginner character option is more about teaching and a little convenience but not guiding a player. The concepts here are very simplified tho so interpret them as you wish.

[Evelo]

It's a refresh, not a rework. Don't get your hopes up for one thing and be disappointed when something else happens.

[All thats Well]

apologies , I apparently use the two words interchangebly, but I'm not having any high expectations in fact I made this poll  to see what the best case scenario would be with the most minimum klei could or could not do. I'm trying to find a suggestion that could appeal to them AND the community. and I'm having fun with it, lol

[WhackE]

Wilson should not be science focused everyone who voted for that is wrong and doesn't understand the joke.

It's kind of almost, pretty much, the whole of his character to be bad at science.

[F0XaN]

10 hours ago, WhackE said:

Wilson should not be science focused everyone who voted for that is wrong and doesn't understand the joke.

Personally, I voted for lore, not science. I hope "A New Reign Cinematic" means something for Wilson.

[Mike23Ua]

10 hours ago, WhackE said:

Wilson should not be science focused everyone who voted for that is wrong and doesn't understand the joke.

It's kind of almost, pretty much, the whole of his character to be bad at science.

No, no it’s not.. and I can prove it through every other character rework that exists.

Maxwell literally lures everyone EVERYONE into the Constant by promising them they will be able to do better what they couldn’t do in the REAL WORLD.

Wolfgang faked his strength, but now in the constant that’s his Main perk super human strength.

Wigfrid could no longer be the well praised on stage actress she once was and was being thrown out of the spotlight, her deal with the devil was the be the singing Baird giving her grand performance.

Wendy missed her sister and wanted nothing more but to be reunited with her again either through dying or through communicating with the dead in meditation rituals. Wendy was lured in with promise to be Reunited with her Sister.

Theres a huge lore inconsistency for Wilson who was lured into the constant with promise of Secret Knowledge- To STILL be a terrible scientist after making his deal with the Devil.

I personally theorize that (potential spoilers below..)

Spoiler

Wilson is actually Wagstaff and does in fact learn all the secret science knowledge he yearned for, and in his Old Age has now returned to the Constant in an attempt to rescue everyone Maxwell had captured.

(this likely doesn’t make much sense… but it would immediately throw him from being a failed scientist to being the most knowledgeable character in the games lore in Science!)

 

[WhackE]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maxwell literally lures everyone EVERYONE into the Constant by promising them they will be able to do better what they couldn’t do in the REAL WORLD.

I'm taking the bait because you humor me, yes, he lures everyone, because he manipulated them, it's not a promise, he's just lying to them.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wolfgang faked his strength, but now in the constant that’s his Main perk super human strength.

Wigfrid could no longer be the well praised on stage actress she once was and was being thrown out of the spotlight, her deal with the devil was the be the singing Baird giving her grand performance.

Wendy missed her sister and wanted nothing more but to be reunited with her again either through dying or through communicating with the dead in meditation rituals. Wendy was lured in with promise to be Reunited with her Sister.

 

Wolf did fake his strength, but only to play it up, The elephant was only for show, he was very strong before he entered the constant. He never gained Superhuman strength after he entered.

Wendy clearly had a bond with her sister even before she entered, we know this because she was very much into spirits and the dead doing seance's to try and commune with her sister.

Wigfrid was just lied to. Lol. "I can make you popular again by throwing you into a Wilderness with no other people." -Maxwell

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Theres a huge lore inconsistency for Wilson who was lured into the constant with promise of Secret Knowledge- To STILL be a terrible scientist after making his deal with the Devil.

There is no lore inconsistency, Implying the lore is even consistent in the first place. Wilson just sucks, That's the point.

[MadMatt]

22 minutes ago, WhackE said:

There is no lore inconsistency, Implying the lore is even consistent in the first place. Wilson just sucks, That's the point.

Aren't there multiple instances of character quotes proving that Wilson created numerous items that actually work? Maybe you could argue that's not "science" but he's most definitely an inventor, one that can be successful, and so it isn't too crazy to imply there's an aspect to him that isn't just "haha laugh at the incompetent man!"

[WhackE]

37 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

Aren't there multiple instances of character quotes proving that Wilson created numerous items that actually work? Maybe you could argue that's not "science" but he's most definitely an inventor, one that can be successful, and so it isn't too crazy to imply there's an aspect to him that isn't just "haha laugh at the incompetent man!"

There are quotes that imply that, yes, but it just doesn't make much sense considering anyone can make them, if they were character specific creations like with Winona that would make more sense. But you know considering one of Wilsons "inventions" is the Fire Pump an utterly useless item, his inventions are clearly pretty garbage.

Also, I know there can be more to him than just "he's a bad inventor", but you need to consider how one-sided characters can be in this game like Willow, yes, she can talk about more than wanting to burn stuff, but Willow being the "haha funny fire girl burns everything" is accurate and pretty much her whole identity.

[MadMatt]

12 minutes ago, WhackE said:

There are quotes that imply that, yes, but it just doesn't make much sense considering anyone can make them, if they were character specific creations like with Winona that would make more sense. But you know considering one of Wilsons "inventions" is the Fire Pump an utterly useless item, his inventions are clearly pretty garbage.

Also, I know there can be more to him than just "he's a bad inventor", but you need to consider how one-sided characters can be in this game like Willow, yes, she can talk about more than wanting to burn stuff, but Willow being the "haha funny fire girl burns everything" is accurate and pretty much her whole identity.

It doesn't make sense that Maxwell would tease Wilson for something Maxwell made himself :P

I know there were more examples, unfortunately the Fire Pump is the only one I can remember, but still! The reworks most definitely have a theme of characters growing their powers and abilities. Wilson, even if his inventions are bad now, would also grow with his rework. The most damning evidence for this theme being true is that Woodie gets two whole new forms never before seen, and the characters also point out how his curse has "worsened." So the argument that because his abilities suck now means they will never get better, doesn't hold much weight when the whole point of the reworks is to see the character's grow and improve.

Also the Willow point is strange, there is another side to her and that's the tragedy surrounding her character as an orphan haunted by nightmares. Maybe you're talking about the characters as they just are in-game though. Regardless, even the crazy pyromaniac was given development with something other than fire in the form of Bernie, so I don't see why Wilson can't undergo a similar 3-Dification.

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, MadMatt said:

I know there were more examples, unfortunately the Fire Pump is the only one I can remember, but still!

Telltale heart, gardeneering hat.

[Mike23Ua]

43 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Telltale heart, gardeneering hat.

If Wilson created these gadgets, maybe perhaps it wouldn’t “break” his gameplay if he started with the knowledge of how to craft them, similar to how Wickerbottoms starts with some knowledge.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Theres a huge lore inconsistency for Wilson who was lured into the constant with promise of Secret Knowledge- To STILL be a terrible scientist after making his deal with the Devil.

he literally made most of the items that we use in the game plus a portal.

Btw, not discovering someting=!being terrible scientist. We dont know if he had a lot of science knowledge or not before the deal, we only know that he lived in a cabinet doing experiments that didnt lead to anything. For example, Tesla is considered one of the greatest scientist but most of his theories didn't work well or were wrong, science is also failure because failing is also success since you are discarting wrong hypothesis that will lead you to the correct ones

[Rylanor]

As a Wilson main, I really hope Klei won't add downsides for him. I hate playing other characters and constantly remind myseld to use gimmicky perks they have, even though I dont need them at all, and yet their downsides are always here.

[Moonatik]

8 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

he literally made most of the items that we use in the game plus a portal.

Btw, not discovering someting=!being terrible scientist. We dont know if he had a lot of science knowledge or not before the deal, we only know that he lived in a cabinet doing experiments that didnt lead to anything. For example, Tesla is considered one of the greatest scientist but most of his theories didn't work well or were wrong, science is also failure because failing is also success since you are discarting wrong hypothesis that will lead you to the correct ones

 

So I'm thinking about a crafting station, Wilson use only. Where he could experiment. Fails would lead to something after few tries. Sometimes random, we woudn't know what will appear. Easy things like tools or weapons (like weapons with specifics stats or abilities, the random side of this kind of creations could be endless). And maybe some more elaborate machines with crazy purpose.

 

 

[FourthLess]

I hope the rework doesn't take him into "science" route. He's not a Wagstaff and he shouldn't be. 

He's a humorous fella with a lot of charisma but a little amount of brains. He didn't have any success with science in the real world although he does have one characteristic that every good scientist does: he doesn't give up.

Wilson is not smart, but his pure strength of will made him keep trying to become a good scientist, go live in the woods instead of just giving up and looking for another purpose in his life. This exact will power made Wilson the protagonist and the one person that reached Maxwell and free'd him after dying millions of times. 

Dst openly tells us Wilson did create some of the stuff all survivors use, previously it was just implied with Meat Effigy that other characters could make without ever interacting with Wilson. If rework does take a direction of new crafts for Wilson, they shouldn't be Wagstaff-like inventions, that's just not a Wilson's type of "science". Wilson's type is the one that perfectly fits Constant's wacky nature where a lot of creatures simply exist just because of the funny world play or a joke. 

Also, maybe it's the company around Wilson that helped him truly realize some of his ideas, that's why his crafts are available to all survivors. In the end, he did make a portal only after Maxwell's help. 

In the end, what I am trying to say is that Wilson's refresh could go into "more inventions" route but he shouldn't turn into a "real" scientist. His inventions should remain unnatural wacky and imperfect ideas that simply wouldn't make sense in the real world. 

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maxwell literally lures everyone EVERYONE into the Constant by promising them they will be able to do better what they couldn’t do in the REAL WORLD.

He lured Wilson into the Constant by promising him "Forbidden Knowledge" he didn't specify what knowledge exactly and definitely didn't tell Wilson he'll become smarter. 

In the end, Wilson did receive a knowledge: a knowledge of making a portal into the Constant. (Which he tried to apply and ironically with the help of Maxwell himself was able to build another portal, but like the previous one, it only brought people in) 

[Nweeky]

2 hours ago, FourthLess said:

He's a humorous fella with a lot of charisma but a little amount of brains. He didn't have any success with science in the real world although he does have one characteristic that every good scientist does: he doesn't give up.

Wilson is not smart, but his pure strength of will made him keep trying to become a good scientist, go live in the woods instead of just giving up and looking for another purpose in his life. This exact will power made Wilson the protagonist and the one person that reached Maxwell and free'd him after dying millions of times.

Agreed. I would not sort any of his gadgets into the science tab, but rather the survival and magic ones. Nothing he makes requires a deeper understanding of the underlying principles, several of his quotes make it quite clear he has no clue how natural sciences work. At most you could say that he has some understanding of basic engineering and what he makes just seems like pure sheer of will and optimism of throwing sticks together for the omphteenth time. He is much more successful in bridging into the magic side of the Constant and just calling it 'science'.

If anything, he seems to have more understanding in healing as implied by his improved revival skills in the Forge. Perhaps something learned from dying a billion times and his most prominent inventions (meat effigy, telltale heart, booster shot) being related to countering death. I would say it's very in character to give him emergency tools on avoiding death and healing in general, based on rudimentary magic. Perhaps something like the totem of undying from minecraft. And being able to inject fellow survivors (much to the dismay of the others).

#DoctorWilson (=NurseWilson, but let's not break his bubble)

[Moonatik]

4 hours ago, FourthLess said:

He didn't have any success with science in the real world 

 

Wigfried was not a real warrior in the real world. 

And whatever his actual state, his quotes, if we're talking about a rework. Everything could change.

"Science" for Wilson could mean many things, and why not in magic things. He could try some experiences, whatever they are.

 

 

[GamePlayer42]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:16 PM, Evelo said:

It's a refresh, not a rework. Don't get your hopes up for one thing and be disappointed when something else happens.

you are one of those guys on the forum

 

[FourthLess]

20 hours ago, Moonatik said:

"Science" for Wilson could mean many things, and why not in magic things. He could try some experiences, whatever they are.

That's what I meant! While I'm not a big fan of the idea, I am absolutely fine with Wilson going into wacky inventions direction! I just expressed my worries about him doing "Wagstaff-like" or "real" science in dst world. 

If Wilson is going to invent more stuff, it should be something that doesn't really make sense anywhere in the world except Constant and slap the word "science" on it, heck, pretty sure that exact joke was made in those little Wilson notes about Meat Effigy a long while ago in solo DS. 

2 minutes ago, FourthLess said:

 

 

[Moonatik]

6 hours ago, FourthLess said:

That's what I meant! While I'm not a big fan of the idea, I am absolutely fine with Wilson going into wacky inventions direction! I just expressed my worries about him doing "Wagstaff-like" or "real" science in dst world. 

If Wilson is going to invent more stuff, it should be something that doesn't really make sense anywhere in the world except Constant and slap the word "science" on it, heck, pretty sure that exact joke was made in those little Wilson notes about Meat Effigy a long while ago in solo DS. 

 

 

I thought the same, it would be a "Constant adaptation". But we don't have to try to define "science" too specificly, or like in the real world. Science in DST make us already craft many crazy things. So science is open.

Anyway, I like the idea of fails before success, and some random side into what we could get with his craft.

A science bar ? the more we try, the more we get. Not as simple as the strengh bar with Wolfgang, but something like that maybe.

 

[Tranoze]

Wilson will now understand the basic of constant and can do everything other characters do.
He can summon abigail.
He can summon shadow puppet.
He can read books.
He can become old age.
He can cook gourmet dishes.
He can plug himself with circuit...

What he need to do is offer an idol to fixed portal and change his look a bit and he can do anything.

[GamePlayer42]

17 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Wilson will now understand the basic of constant and can do everything other characters do.
He can summon abigail.
He can summon shadow puppet.
He can read books.
He can become old age.
He can cook gourmet dishes.
He can plug himself with circuit...

What he need to do is offer an idol to fixed portal and change his look a bit and he can do anything.

ok ig

 

[ShakerGER]

Make him upgrade others items. With SCIENCE perhabs?

[Cheggf]

On 11/10/2022 at 4:34 PM, MadMatt said:

Aren't there multiple instances of character quotes proving that Wilson created numerous items that actually work?

Wilson is a failure of a scientist, but the Constant is pun powered and Wilson is great at those.