Porkus Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 OKAY I NEED TO SAY THIS. Maxwell rework is honestly maybe my favorite. I think Wendy's was probably the best overall, but I think Maxwell's could easily be better with two changes. Downsides And Permanent Shadows: I think Maxwell does not have enough of a downside. Lower max hp does basically nothing to change the game or how you play it. Maxwell can tank just as well as any other character, especially when using jellybeans. I think he needs more of a downside than that. Maxwell being a difficult character fits him being the last to unlock in original Don't Starve. So lore wise Maxwell is supposed to be frail and we see that with his 75 hp, however I think that we can go farther than this. I had the idea that when Maxwell has his shadow minions out he should take increased damage. This actually affects tanking as it will increase the amount of healing you need, and the dangerousness of it as more things may be able to one shot you, and this is especially apparent when you don't have armor. I think this would be good since it would encourage kiting as him, and using your shadows in creative ways so that you don't have to directly engage so often. The other problem I have with new Maxwell is that he no longer has permanent shadows. I think these could have been kept in the game for their original cost. The UI could simply allow you to click on whether you want a "fleeting shadow" (the ones that last a minute) or a permanent shadow, permanent shadows cost 10x as much nightmare fuel and a tool so I believe it is a fair trade. I think this would be great so that Maxwell could have better harvesting skills if you want to harvest a ton, but still able to use shadows on the go for things like picking up items from cave holes or getting rid of random unwanted trees or rocks. If people think they would be too strong in conjunction with everything else he has, I have an idea for how to balance it. All shadows summoned would be fleeting shadows until you bind your soul with them, binding a soul to a shadow would decrease max hp. I think 5 per shadow would be good, for a maximum of 4. This would work on both duelists and workers. The soul binded shadows would not increase damage received, so each type of shadow has a unique downside. I have two ideas on how the increased damage would work. Each fleeting shadow would increase damage received by .1, for a maximum of .5 increased. So with 1 shadow you would take 1.1x damage, with 4 you would take 1.4x damage, and with 5 and 6 you would take 1.5x damage. The other way it could be done is so that with 1-3 shadows you would take 1.25x damage, and with 4-6 you would take 1.5x damage. I prefer the first method, but I'd like to hear what people think. I honestly love this rework, using the shadows for such a low cost for a short time is very fun to me, and the new spells are great. The Tophat is also great for having extra inventory early game, like a backpack you don't have to wear, and in multiplayer I see a lot of great utility it could have in conjuction with chester or the magicians box. Very positive feelings about this, but if the klei devs see this and actually think keeping the permanent shadows or a little extra difficulty could be a good addition then I would love to see it added. Kind of a longshot, but I think with these few changes this could easily make Maxwell the most well designed character in the franchise, and incredibly fun to play. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 Good luck on getting feedback from a dev. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1605975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 I think taking more damage when shadows are out disincentivizes multitasking which Maxwell excels at. No longer wanting to gather while fighting as you wouldn't want to take as much risk. I also think every character already has an incentive to kite without needing a downside to push for that. Having a lower max hp does mean you have to heal more often which imo is incentive enough. Taking more damage in exchange for permanent puppets might interesting though. Trading ones mortality for even greater power would fit his greedy persona. And it would be an optional thing to opt into if one wishes to focus on gathering even more. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1605977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
loopuleasa Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 Not a fan of this idea. Also, 75 health is enough of a downside if you are an inexperienced player. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1606009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cafe Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 Well, i think we should get better tweaks for the character than a default 'damage multiplier' that's boring... wolfgang got rework cus he was op and his unique perk was doing more damage, speed, health. Now he has way more depth and it's a such fun character. Max should have old gather minions - Plz in a way that we can stop them cus old maxwell puppets would destroy the whole base digging up farms... Duelist- Should work like mimics they basicly copy your armor set and tank the boss or at least do everything as u do, that's would way better than the dumb AI trying to dodge. More spels - Not sure exactly what thoose could be but we need more unique things for him... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1606080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 You do realize, OP, Maxwell - gameplay-wise, like any other (re-worked) character, is geared towards player-base at large, not solely targeting the fancies of some "1337" group of experienced players, right? Right. Good to know that. Hence "no, ty" to your proposal: KLei's Max re-balance concept is, in broad strokes, ok. Needs more buffs on Shadow Duelists and extra time for spawned Servants, probably bigger actions radius too - yet all-in-all is a good direction. No need for any crippling downsides, relegating him at bottom of character pick-rates, pretty much where he already is atm. There's no logic for Max to take extra-damage, especially from Shadow Monsters, since he sat on Shadow Throne and theoretically knows all ins-and-outs in relation to Shadow realm; likewise he is the creator of most Constant's denizens. As actual game-play goes in bulk player-base, such changes (extra-taken damage + 75 hp) would absolutely destroy most players out there, no 2 ways about it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1606173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkus Posted November 4, 2022 Author Share Posted November 4, 2022 2 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said: You do realize, OP, Maxwell - gameplay-wise, like any other (re-worked) character, is geared towards player-base at large, not solely targeting the fancies of some "1337" group of experienced players, right? I don't see any problem with having a harder character in the game. Originally Maxwell was unlocked after beating adventure mode, which was a challenge to "the player base at large." Characters like Wormwood also have pretty big downsides already, however those downsides can be solved with jellybeans (yes they can be hard to get for newer players), or just stockpiling less easy to get healing sources. That is why I want a downside that is not hinged on prep but one that is hinged on skill. If newer players don't want to take more damage they can just use the shadows outside of combat, or rely more on duelists to fight for them instead of with them. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1606211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Third Porkus said: I don't see any problem with having a harder character in the game. Originally Maxwell was unlocked after beating adventure mode, which was a challenge to "the player base at large." Characters like Wormwood also have pretty big downsides already, however those downsides can be solved with jellybeans (yes they can be hard to get for newer players), or just stockpiling less easy to get healing sources. That is why I want a downside that is not hinged on prep but one that is hinged on skill. If newer players don't want to take more damage they can just use the shadows outside of combat, or rely more on duelists to fight for them instead of with them. Or not. There's already Wes for "I want a challenge", no need for Wes 2.0. Wormwood isn't hard and you don't need Jelly, a pretty overrated item that won't help you in a fight where you take repeated massive damage for whatever reason (lag, bad positioning etc). Not to mention bulk player-base doesn't do BQ. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1606271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 11 hours ago, Lord Cafe said: wolfgang got rework cus he was op and his unique perk was doing more damage, speed, health. Now he has way more depth and it's a such fun character. lol Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1606280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 all characters should be noob-bulk player base friendly and with perks that removes certain areas of the survival learning curve so any player quits due to frustration and old players can still trapped in a confort place of satisfaction by "winning" the game. If works in korean arpgs why not here in a niche game with a +10 years old tradition Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/144268-i-had-an-amazing-idea-for-the-max-rework/#findComment-1606282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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