One last ditch effort to remind you what this game is.

[tehMugwump]

I don't spend much time in the forum, but from what I read _Q_ is getting blasted because he is obnoxious and condescending as hell towards everyone who disagrees with him.God, do you even notice how ****ing arrogant you are sounding? Seriously, whats the problem to cater to both. Casual player can change setting so it gets easier for them. You on the other hand can do the opposite and at the same time play as Wes to make it as hard as possible. So what's the big deal? If it still is to easy for you, then just stop using any exploits and avoid things making the game too easy. Don't forgot that Klei first and foremost is a company and not your personal jester. If they cater to both casual and hardcore gamers they will sell much more copies instead of when they cater to only one party. I really don't see any point in your argumentation besides you loosing bragging rights about how good you are in how hard a game...

This is the difference between the two camps. I don't care how hardcore someone is and what settings they want to use. Make the game kill you on launch for all I care. Why do the 'hardcore' care about how others play? Makes the game less elitist most likely and them less special for playing it.

[Palpetinus]

Why do we still discuss this?

[Lumina]

[MENTION=22716]Lumina[/MENTION] if things got harder to the point these folks are speaking of a lot of the basic research items would become inaccessible to quite a few players.[...]What i really don't want to see is the superhardcore guys get what they want to the ruining of the fun for the rest of us, yes they have some valid points on balancing the game, but by no means should they be completely catered to.

I understand this perfectly : and i don't love excessive changes. For me, it's better if the change let you a part of profit enough to enjoy it but not too powerfull.I'm a recent player so can't pretend be hardcore gamer at all, and probably casual, in fact.But i'm trying see other point of view : and think of what could make me try harder difficulty. In binding of isaac, it was fun trying other characters to unlock some rewards, because the game offer me a purpose. I am not sure actually i'll try it in DS because it don't seem me be "rewarding" (reward isn't in the power but it could be challenge, achievement (?), or like someone suggest, just more cloth, without effect).And i don't want my pleasure of playing reduce the pleasure of someone else, who desserve it too.

Why do the 'hardcore' care about how others play?

Because it impact their game too and someones tell "don't use it", and they have the feeling they are deprived of something, for a game make for them too.

[ShatteredSanity]

Why do we still discuss this?

Because apparently we need to. Not discussing something doesn't make it go away.

Look, first off, can everyone please just calm down? We all want the same thing, right? We all want Don't Starve to be the best game it can possibly be. We're all on the same side.

Secondly, can someone please define what exactly "Casual" and "Hardcore" means in this context?

Thirdly, to the people who are saying that the game needs to be more difficult... Please for the love of god tell me how you're playing! The furthest I've ever gotten is the first adventure world!

Fourthly (Is that even a word?), everyone needs to remember that the game isn't finished yet. More content is planned.

Fifthly, maybe I missed this but how exactly is the game too easy or too difficult currently?

Edited April 5, 2013 by ShatteredSanity

[Tumaelso]

While I agree that the game is a bit too easy, I would really like it if someone, maybe the OP, gave a list of all the things that are easy in the game that needs to be more difficult.

[tehMugwump]

While I agree that the game is a bit too easy, I would really like it if someone, maybe the OP, gave a list of all the things that are easy in the game that needs to be more difficult.

No one can really claim the game is too easy if they haven't going into custom mode and maxed all the sliders to a more difficult world. Just like you can't say the game is too hard if you haven't done the opposite.

[urteem]

What happened to this game being a roguelike? Roguelikes are supposed to be balls-to-the-wall hard.This is the kind of difficulty I was hoping for. Incredibly tough, but not impossible. Surviving in DS is pretty easy as of now IMO. Winter feels about right but summer needs something to spice it up a bit as the first 20 days of any game are pretty boring.

[Hudxesonael]

_Q_ getting blasted about wanting an OBVIOUS exploit to be fixed.

God bless _Q_. There are so many people here just trollin on the forum. "Oh, that's another post about OP stuff. You guys want to get a cookie for reporting it?". Seriously? Or those "Shhh don't tell about *insert exploit here* because I managed to survive longer thanks to it".

Now what did happened, is Klei themselves COMPROMISED to cater to casuals, they shouldn't have, but they did and that's why I left. The game still has sometime so i'm hoping they realize this and fix it. The game should focus first and foremost on being a uncompromising survival game, while giving you casuals options to have a slightly easier game. As it stands its catering to to casuals gamers while giving the survival folk options to play a little bit of a harder game, its absurd.

I don't see a reason for the devs not to try to appeal to a larger audience in some way. I personally belive that if the game will be balanced and without obvious exploits it will be as fun for casuals as would be to 'hardcore gamers' while being an uncompromising survival game. It all lies in small details. There are settings and mods to suit 'special' needs. My 9 year old niece doesn't have a problem adjusting things for her liking so I think there is no excuse when it comes to the game's difficulty. You like it and you set it accordingly to your skills if need be or you simply don't like it and don't play at all. Nevertheless the game should be somehwat difficult at deafult as it's beauty lies in the challange. I ABSOLUTELY agree with you on this one.

But you guys attacking the *hardcore crowd* needs to stop, because your wrong, the game is advertised to cater to us, not you. And when it doesn't, we get mad and we have a right to. How would you feel if you bought a game advertised as super casual sandboxy loveyness and a bunch of us hardcore dudes came to the forums and the devs changed the game to be hard as nails?

Voice of the poeple who feel the spirit of the game should be more recognized... In a perfect world ... Unfortunetly, in reality it often goes the other way. Instead of addressing serious issues we see post asking for additional meaningless ingame junk items "Gimmme pizza! I like Pizza! Why can't I have pizza in Don't Starve!" The game should be a hardcore struggle where you trow anything you have near you at the upcoming threats trying to stay sane and not starve.

I stopped playing after the last update the health increase, touch stone implementation, and sanity rain reduction drove me away.

Too bad. You seem to be a very reasonable person and someone with the heart for the game. I hope you stick around with the community until the better times (hopefully the next update) and come back to play DS in the future.

[Nickboom]

I agree with it needs to get harder but heres how I think it should go. At the beginning have all the stuff we have now but as the days increase new things start appearing in the world tougher monsters, new land to explore, maxwell sends some of his strong minions to kill you. Maybe even some monster biomes start appearing after some days.What this does is keeps its hard but still doable in the beginning but the longer you live the harder it gets as you have shown that you can survive the base stuff.

[Palpetinus]

Because apparently we need to. Not discussing something doesn't make it go away.

Uhm, yes it does. Discussing something 500 times won't change the time of the next update.And that's what we want, don't we? That the game gets balanced?Senseless flaming won't solve that, updates will.

[ManofShadows]

I'm going to have to agree this game is too easy. Almost all enemies can be killed by equiping a logsuit, a spear, and walking up to them while spamming your left mouse button.

[ShatteredSanity]

Uhm, yes it does. Discussing something 500 times won't change the time of the next update.And that's what we want, don't we? That the game gets balanced?Senseless flaming won't solve that, updates will.

Well, actually not discussing it won't make it go away, but the update will. Hopefully. And yeah, we all do want the game to get balanced.

Senseless flaming won't solve that

:willow:Willow disagrees :PBut yeah. You have a point there. All we can really do is tell the devs what we think, and they'll figure out what they want to do.

[Doktor Kengineer]

While a majority of arguments on both sides are true (in my opinion i enjoy playing it hardcore and softcore depending on which i feel like playing at the time) but turning this into a flame thread isn't the way to go.But overall we've got realise that the game is still in beta, where the devs tweak this stuff for the final product. To quote the steam store page: "get involved with this game as it develops", so eitherway this stuff is going happen with a beta, they might add something which makes the game harder or more easy play, but its all to see how it plays out and if we as a community like it.But instead currently its just a massive fight between the hardcore and softcore players, when overall we should try reach a consensus together to help the game develop as a whole rather then have it bolted down to a single playerbase.

[Knyght K Falcon]

While a majority of arguments on both sides are true (in my opinion i enjoy playing it hardcore and softcore depending on which i feel like playing at the time) but turning this into a flame thread isn't the way to go.But overall we've got realise that the game is still in beta, where the devs tweak this stuff for the final product. To quote the steam store page: "get involved with this game as it develops", so eitherway this stuff is going happen with a beta, they might add something which makes the game harder or more easy play, but its all to see how it plays out and if we as a community like it.But instead currently its just a massive fight between the hardcore and softcore players, when overall we should try reach a consensus together to help the game develop as a whole rather then have it bolted down to a single playerbase.

I Agree, i think the game should cater to both fanbases, hardcore and softcore. And there is a lot of room for changes before the final release.The Options were put in for a reason, Softcore players can tweak settings to make it a complete sandbox for them, its their choice and why not let them? Me, a hardcore player, can tweak objects into the negative, adding more monsters, less resources and generally making it harder. It fits both world, and will attract many more players. Whats the fun in playing if you die on the first night and have no clue what to do or how to do it? While there is trial and error, a lot of people would be turned away before they managed to learn. I say, let our wonderful creators do what they wants with the game, in the end, they are the ones creating it and they have the final say. If you have a problem with the game not fitting your style, then find a different game, no need to complain. ~ Knyght

[Rakeesh]

I do not agree with the OP's blanket statement that everything is too easy/overpowered/made for casuals and I'm not about to go digging through thread after thread trying to find sporadic evidence unless it's presented constructively and without attacking any one group of players.I do, however, agree that some aspects are too easy in their current default settings; however, simply stating 'x is too easy, make it harder' doesn't help anybody without anything constructive to back it up.But we also have those settings to make the game harder. And reading through the thread there are comments about how 'less isn't less enough' but with no numbers or examples to compare. Again, nothing constructive and only blanket statements. Everyone just needs to take a breath and approach this logically and calmly without attacking anybody's opinion. And if you do disagree with an opinion, be kind.For example; I find that on default settings there are far too many rabbit holes that spawn and there is no challenge to catching or killing the adorable walking meatballs. I would say the current level would be good for the first +spawn setting, but not for default. I've encountered areas with 7+ rabbit holes on a single screen, which is far too much as rabbit.

[TheHomeChicken]

I completely agree with this thread - although I am a bit late to the party.For those of you wondering, it isn't a problem that the game is catering to the casuals, thats fine.The problem is that we were promised something "uncompromising", and that's where the core fanbase is coming from, yet all these casuals show up and Klei changes its direction. If Klei could have a way to keep it uncompromising, yet still CTC (Cater To Casuals), then it would be fine.Btw - _Q_ knows what he's talking about 95% of the time, from what i've seen, so yeah..

[Zeev]

I have 118 hours in DS. It's a fun game, and because it's challenging, it keeps me hooked. I want it to stay challenging. I want the difficulty curve to keep going up as the game progresses. So for the most part I agree with OP. Most games these days cater to the casual crowd and as a result I get bored with them fast. Not every game should cater to them, but I see no reason why there shouldn't be simple options to make things easier, so they can enjoy building a fancy base with lots of flowers and wall mazes while we continue to challenge ourselves. I lurk is this forum quite a bit, barely posted any. One thing that really irks me is when I see people say "just don't use it" when there is something that makes the game too easy. When the game itself is marketed as uncompromising survival, and as a rogue-like, we, the people who came for that experience, should not have to limit ourselves with the game. The people who came to this game for a cute sandbox game should be the ones that have to limit themselves. If you can't handle the difficulty of the game, even with the easiest options, then get a mod that reduces it. I'm sure there will be/is a mod to make all monsters friendly. Or one that removes sanity reduction. Or removes hp loss when hunger is 0.

[ScienceMachine]

I officially despise you.

Aw, I love you too, Snob~<3

And for differentiating the community into different, and hateful sides. I really do.

It started out like this, Silly Snob. But hey, if you hate me so much and want to act out on impulse and out of spite, you can go ahead and kick me out of the forums entirely just to prove that you are so much better than I am.It didn't really take me long to realise that maybe I shouldn't have typed out all that subtle rage while being sleep deprived. And I also doubt that you would care what I have to say about myself now, so have a nice day, Love~I am however am very happy that the recent posts on this thread are by those who really wants something for everyone, not being the "Nazi elitist fanboy hardcore" gamer cult that no one wants.But hey, no doubt each side's going to start blasting each other again just because I posted something. Actually, that would be kinda funny to watch, Just one moment of stepping in and suddenly its the heat of a civil war again. Shows you how much people on a computer screen really love to smack people left and right just because they're not wearing they're favourite colored shirt.

[tehMugwump]

I completely agree with this thread - although I am a bit late to the party.For those of you wondering, it isn't a problem that the game is catering to the casuals, thats fine.The problem is that we were promised something "uncompromising", and that's where the core fanbase is coming from, yet all these casuals show up and Klei changes its direction. If Klei could have a way to keep it uncompromising, yet still CTC (Cater To Casuals), then it would be fine.Btw - _Q_ knows what he's talking about 95% of the time, from what i've seen, so yeah..

So, what you're saying is the game can't have settings or options for both, just the hard core. It's understandable that ya'll are feeling butthurt that you've had your little private game taken away from you. That's business, though and that's what Kei's running.Seems to me, though, that Kei has been bending over backwards to please both camps, but you're just not having any of it.

[Walltimer]

Does adding one thing that makes it slightly easier really effect the entire game? I see no change from the rain update to the doorway update besides the obvious touchstones, which need to be found by exploration, it's not like they spawn right next to you. We've had easy stuff since Wolfgang, and will continue to have them, but it will not completely change the game into Call of Duty levels of stupidity, in fact. it will just get harder from this point on.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Walltimer

[Gangstamonkey214]

Although I consider myself a causal as I constantly die I would love if this games hardness was increased to wear I rage quit for a few days when I die (like after the naughty and nice update)

[CyberForce]

I have 118 hours in DS. It's a fun game, and because it's challenging, it keeps me hooked. I want it to stay challenging. I want the difficulty curve to keep going up as the game progresses.

This is exactly what I think the main issue is. The problem isn't as much that there are things being added to make things a bit easier at the start but rather that after a certain amount of days the game difficulty starts to level out while still giving you new ways to keep yourself alive. I only started playing this game a lot since just after the rain update, so I'm definitely no expert, but personally I think it is quite a bit tougher to survive the first 20-40 days while exploring and setting up camp than it is to survive after that first winter. By that point my base is set up, I usually have a stable food supply, and enemies like hounds and spiders are now much less of a threat since I can just set up a bunch of traps or hire a village of pigs with all the monster meat I end up with. Since I don't really have any new challenges to face, I am then usually free to do ridiculously stupid things that should kill me but rarely does.

Things like touchstones don't really bother me too much since it gives a second chance to new players who didn't know it was a bad idea to eat raw monster meat. What bothers me is that by day 60 the greatest enemy I have to worry about is myself.

[ScienceMachine]

Can someone lock, for the love of God, lock this thread already? It's already proven how terrible some people can get (myself including) when it comes to the whole "the game's fine vs the game's too easy" argument. We do not need any more actually misleading and spiteful users running about and resurrecting this Godawful mess.

[501105]

It is locked now, I understand the need to have a discussion of difficulty, but the language in the last few pages is not very constructive anymore, let alone friendly.