[Opinion] Change To Bookcase Recipe Is Good

[goatt]

I know there are lots of yall out there wanting to have Wicker's max power on day 1.

But I've always imagined a wicker have a relatively tamed magical life early game, but can spam magic in late games. I picture her this way as a character growth, as the servers progress. I don't like the idea that wicker can gather all her books in a bookcase before a basic base building is completed. Bookcase's passive regen is the major reason that she can spam her magic.

I wished the bookcase was locked behind living logs as I suggested here, when I equated the bookcase to shadow manipulator and think they should cost same amount of living logs. I still do, so I think 3 living logs are more reasonable than 4.

 

But I would further suggest that Bookcase be locked behind shadow manipulator, that is: bookcase requires shadow manipulator to unlock. That can also solve the problem of lack of living logs in pub server, and people will prioritize building shadow manipulator, making other non-wicker players' experience much better. And it slows down wicker's progression in early game, delays her timing to spam magic power.

That is how I imagined her. And I would like her ultimate magic to be locked behind shadow manipulator and bookcase.

 

Anyways, I'm glad Wicker's power peak is delayed again in this update.

 

Edit: My suggestion above essentially treats bookcase as advanced as dark sword to other characters.

Edit: I also wish Everything Encyclopaedia doesn't unlock the bookcase even when near science machine.

[Ohan]

16 minutes ago, goatt said:

But I would further suggest that Bookcase be locked behind shadow manipulator, that is: bookcase requires shadow manipulator to unlock. That can also solve the problem of lack of living logs in pub server, and people will prioritize building shadow manipulator, making other non-wicker players' experience much better. And it slows down wicker's progression in early game, delays her timing to spam magic power.

^ suggested by someone who doesnt know about the Everything Encyclopaedia. 

[NekoSoulx]

Oof, better just make all her books locked behind ancient altar by this point otherwise wicker = op can ruin others fun. 

[HowlVoid]

This is giving me Wolfgang rework flashbacks.

People are in love with the idea of creating convoluted setbacks because they think it's being creative or rewarding the player for time spent. When in reality they're just adding tedium for the sake of tedium.

Living logs are not hard to obtain, it is akin to Wanda rushing the archives/ruins for her crafts (except in the grotto). The issue is the tuning of the cost and how that cost is closely tied to RNG. Mobs, TNT, and the shadow manipulator cost are set to require/drop living logs in 1s and multiples of 3s. (Some can drop in 2s, but the second is never guaranteed)

The method required to obtain the logs would be a lot less grind-y if it was set to 3 (or 2 )while still not being any easier. You'd still have to spawn a tree guard, happen upon a TNT or find the grotto. She would be less susceptible to RNG, a problem Wanda doesn't have (not to mention Wanda's crafts don't require upkeep after the fact too. Hello? Wicker's power is also mitigated by how many sanity restoration items she has on hand ). 

So no, this recipe change doesn't gate her power behind time, it gates it behind RNG. She could be looking for sanity restoring items the whole time she's waiting for her books to repair, now she's most likely losing sanity underground (a cost to look for reliable living logs) while also needing to prepare to pay for sanity for using her books. Like, can she get a break?

Edit: Poison birchnut trees drop 2 but you need to be lucky enough to spawn 2 for 3-4 living logs (.09% chance), so they are kind of worse overall for any recipe that requires 3.

[Copyafriend]

23 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

This is giving me Wolfgang rework flashbacks.

People are in love with the idea of creating convoluted setbacks because they think it's being creative or rewarding the player for time spent. When in reality they're just adding tedium for the sake of tedium.

Living logs are not hard to obtain, it is akin to Wanda rushing the archives/ruins for her crafts (except in the grotto). The issue is the tuning of the cost and how that cost is closely tied to RNG. Mobs, TNT, and the shadow manipulator cost are set to require/drop living logs in 1s and multiples of 3s. (Some can drop in 2s, but the second is never guaranteed)

The method required to obtain the logs would be a lot less grind-y if it was set to 3 or 2 while still not being any easier. You'd still have to spawn a tree guard, happen upon a TNT or find the grotto. She would be less susceptible to RNG, a problem Wanda doesn't have (not to mention Wanda's crafts don't require upkeep after fact too. Hello? Wicker's power is also mitigated by how many sanity restoration items she has on hand ). 

So no, this recipe change doesn't gate her power behind time, it gates it behind RNG. She could be looking for sanity restoring items the whole time she's waiting for her books to repair, now she's most likely losing sanity underground (a cost to look for reliable living logs) while also needing to prepare to pay for sanity for using her books. Like, can she get a break?

I sure hope she doesn’t, i mean she’s currently the caster character and despite popular opinion, public servers aren’t the only place where balance matters. These books are unlimited on a longer world. If you’re worried about gettinf your bookcase as wickerbottom then yeah go grind the lunar grotto for five or so days, it isn’t THAT long. 

there is no scale up to her powers at all. Before the current update she made the bookcase as an alternative to the alchemy engine asap. Heck i often got it made before day 10, the hardest part was a feather.

for a bookcase that magically regains the durability of every book inside it indefinitely turning every book from a single use magic item into a refuelable tool.

4 planks some gold and a pen.

I know we’re all gamers and we love a good power trip, but i also love when i have to actually y’know. Work for it. 
So yeah im totally down for wickerbottom not getting all of her stuff right away, i think its weird to give her her abilities asap, i also think its odd that no one wants to admit “hey that’s actually pretty powerful, we should probably make it fairly expensive” 

i mean honestly even if all she got new was the bookcase it would be a SIGNIFICANT buff. But she also got 11 new books, 

even the “less useful” options that everyone likes to scoff at have definite arguable uses like farming underground, or mass producing fish. 
 

and they’re all reusable with a delay. Massively cutting long term costs

so yeah i DO think we should make things more expensive, the only real investments are making the bookcase and the first three or so books depending on how much you want to spam them. Heck if we doubled the price of all the old books they’d all still be way cheaper long term.

also the moon book, everyone wants to complain about the price, but you ONLY NEED 1 for any real practical purposes. Dont use them for light, use them to get two iridescent gems on YOUR timeline then to farm pigs. Since everyone wants to point out it sucks for light, then sont use it for light, use it to get a full moon for full moon effects.  
 

jeez sometimes this forum is like a bunch of spoiled kids “waaah i cant have all of my abilities within the first 10 days its TOO EXPENSIVE WAAAH”

[Anthony_L3hr]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

jeez sometimes this forum is like a bunch of spoiled kids “waaah i cant have all of my abilities within the first 10 days its TOO EXPENSIVE WAAAH”

[HowlVoid]

11 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

 

If you read what I wrote I specifically said to tune the cost of the bookcase to be more in line with how living logs drop. This is does not change how one goes about acquiring the items, it simply cuts down on the dependence of RNG.

1 TNT would be enough but they are not guaranteed to exist or spawn.

1 tree guard would always drop enough logs for either case.

The process of finding the gnomes is the bigger time sink of this process no matter the state of the recipe.

My examples and logic aren't based of whining and throwing a tantrum, but from what I think is good balance and I provided example to back them up. 

11 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Jez sometimes this forum is like a bunch of spoiled kids “waaah i cant have all of my abilities within the first 10 days its TOO EXPENSIVE WAAAH”

I do however find this childish remark as very ironic .

[Mysterious box]

I'm fine with living logs being the cost but the current amount is excessive 2 living logs per would be fine living logs aren't a rare resource anymore.

3 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I do however find this childish remark as very ironic .

Regrettably it's been said again and again these types of jabs at other players aren't common or don't exist on these forums.

[Copyafriend]

23 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

 

Also side note, it kinda went ranty at the end, i wasnt calling you a spoiled kid, i just think a lot of people on the forums get too obsessed with getting everything before the first winter because “muh public servers”

[goatt]

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

4 hours ago, goatt said:

But I would further suggest that Bookcase be locked behind shadow manipulator, that is: bookcase requires shadow manipulator to unlock. That can also solve the problem of lack of living logs in pub server, and people will prioritize building shadow manipulator, making other non-wicker players' experience much better. And it slows down wicker's progression in early game, delays her timing to spam magic power.

^ suggested by someone who doesnt know about the Everything Encyclopaedia. 

Everything Encyclopaedia doesn't unlock Shadow Manipulator items. For example, it doesn't unlock dark sword. I suggested bookcase be like dark sword.

[Hornete]

Just now, goatt said:

Everything Encyclopaedia doesn't unlock Shadow Manipulator items. For example, it doesn't unlock dark sword. I suggested bookcase be like dark sword.

If i remember correctly it does unlock Shadow Manipulator recipes when you're near a Science Machine. The Science Machine technically does have magic tech, which is the first tech only consisting of the prestihatitator, the Everything Encyclopedia provides two levels of magic, 1 + 2 = 3! 

[goatt]

 

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

this recipe change doesn't gate her power behind time, it gates it behind RNG

The building of Shadow Manipulator guarantees the building of Prestihatitator. It does 3 things to reflect progress:

1. It makes sure Wicker has graduated from magic school by completing both of the magic station

2. It makes sure Wicker's (home) base has completed its magic technology.

3. A good knowledge of the maps

They take time even if there are abundant living logs. Even though RNG can be unpredictable, the gatekeeping makes sure a certain minimum effort is met to unlock her final power.

 

17 minutes ago, Hornete said:

If i remember correctly it does unlock Shadow Manipulator recipes when you're near a Science Machine. The Science Machine technically does have magic tech, which is the first tech only consisting of the prestihatitator, the Everything Encyclopedia provides two levels of magic, 1 + 2 = 3! 

That's true. I personally wish it changed.

 

3 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

a bunch of spoiled kids

It's what I've being saying in my head lol. Not trying to be offensive by calling anyone "kids". But people seem to prioritize a smooth and comfortable experience over challenging one by too much?

[HowlVoid]

18 minutes ago, goatt said:

 

The building of Shadow Manipulator guarantees the building of Prestihatitator. It does 2 things to reflect progress:

1. It makes sure Wicker has graduated from magic school by completing both of the magic station

2. It makes sure Wicker's (home) base has completed its magic technology.

Both of the above take time even if there are abundant living logs (multiple Normal Tree and Mush Gnome). Even though RNG can make things harder, but the gatekeeping makes sure a certain minimum effort is needed to unlock her final power.

Yeah, I think you're heavily biased into thinking more tedium=progress.

[maxwell_winters]

49 minutes ago, goatt said:

It's what I've being saying in my head lol. Not trying to be offensive by calling anyone "kids". But people seem to prioritize a smooth and comfortable experience over challenging one by too much?

I can see where this is coming from. They've been playing the game for so long, they have seen it all, so they just want to skip the "tedious" set up stage of the game. However, newer and intermediate players are often neglected in those discussions as if people forget that those character-specific items will be easier accessible to them, as well. And there needs to be a skill gate set up for them. Otherwise, they would be taught a wrong lesson that powerful items are served on a silver plate, which is simply not true for everything else in the game. 

While I do understand your concern about Shadow Manipulator, I think the book case is fine where it is. I would probably lower the crafting cost to 3 or even 2 living logs, though. 

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, goatt said:

But I would further suggest that Bookcase be locked behind shadow manipulator

Considering the living log cost I think a better idea would be to make it work as a alchemy and manipulator combined.

[Alcoholic Ape]

I agree with @HowlVoid entirely. The issue with the current nerf is that it doesn't really fix the underlying problems with Wickerbottom's bookcase, it just puts a roadblock in front of it. A very unreliable, luck-based roadblock. I picked Wickerbottom for a reason and I want to use her abilities, god dammit. 

If the Bookcase needs a nerf (which it does), we should attack the root of the issue, infinite book reading. I believe that there should be some sort of material cost for repairing the books. Perhaps the papyrus you store in the bookcase is consumed to repair the books. 

 

 

 

[BezKa]

Funny that now that Wickerbottom spawns shadows and all the "nonstop insanity is good, actually" crowd has completely disappeared.

C'mon guys i thought you LOVED being a nightmare fuel machine.

On a serious note I really hope there can be more "late game content" that is actually late game- not just a Speedrun challenge. It grinds my gears that people consider 70 day worlds too long and want everything done before that. How about something to do after the first summer, that would be nice.

[Mysterious box]

33 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Funny that now that Wickerbottom spawns shadows and all the "nonstop insanity is good, actually" crowd has completely disappeared.

C'mon guys i thought you LOVED being a nightmare fuel machine.

On a serious note I really hope there can be more "late game content" that is actually late game- not just a Speedrun challenge. It grinds my gears that people consider 70 day worlds too long and want everything done before that. How about something to do after the first summer, that would be nice.

I agree but it's clearly not the way the game is heading I kind of doubt we're going to really get anymore related to the end game other than situations like the moon storm event specifically because people get upset when content is time gated it's one of the sacrifices of making the game more casual centric we have to have content that is accessible within a casual playthrough which is generally 2 hours or less.

[goatt]

17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Yeah, I think you're heavily biased into thinking more tedium=progress.

The required process that I suggested to unlock bookcase is the same process required to unlock dark sword. Your "tedium" criticism on that process is essentially criticism on the tech unlocking mechanism itself, which is one of the spines of the game.

I didn't add anything new, I simply wanted to suggest that the bookcase should be treated as advanced as dark sword.

I think your "tedium" comment is biased as a seasoned player who's too familiar with the process, and blinded by your subjective experience. It's better to use objective words such as repetitive, or grindy, or simple. But "tedium" and "tedium=progress" is bad language, I think.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

The required process that I suggested to unlock bookcase is the same process required to unlock dark sword. Your "tedium" criticism on that process is essentially criticism on the tech unlocking mechanism itself, which is one of the spines of the game.

Is a dark sword a character perk? No. The only time character exclusive perks are locked behind stations is when it's done so to balance out their power. 

Yet what you fail to see is that bookcase itself already does this. You are doubling down on something that is already occuring. Are you then to force walter to have to create a new station at a psuedoscience station to then have access to his rounds at the new station? Are you then to force Wanda to craft a clock tinkering station at a manipulator so that she has essential do the same thing twice? 

You're taking the spine of the game and adding a second spine on top of it, doubling the tedium, doubling the resource cost, and doubling the intended balance.

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I didn't add anything new, I simply wanted to suggest that the bookcase should be treated as advanced as dark sword.

Except you're not. A darksword requires but a manipulator. In crafting a bookcase you are already crafting the manipulator, they even require similar items. 

You're forcing the player to craft a manipulator to craft another manipulator, to craft a darksword.

The fourth living log required in the book case may even make this items harder to make them the manipulator itself. Do you not realize you are manipulating a game loop to loop twice?

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I think your "tedium" comment is biased as a seasoned player who's too familiar with the process, and blinded by your subjective experience. It's better to use objective words such as repetitive, or grindy, or simple. But "tedium" and "tedium=progress" is bad language, I think.

My tedium comment is based on an experience gamer who knows about balance in video games. I can recognize game loops, balance, patterns, developer intentions, etc etc has nothing to do with dst itself. 

8 hours ago, BezKa said:

Funny that now that Wickerbottom spawns shadows and all the "nonstop insanity is good, actually" crowd has completely disappeared.

C'mon guys i thought you LOVED being a nightmare fuel machine.

You can wear the bone helmet to spam read and I think some nightmares dissapear as soon as they spawn. 

Not much has changed in how you play wicker (aside the new effects and having to scavenge for living logs). 

8 hours ago, BezKa said:

On a serious note I really hope there can be more "late game content" that is actually late game- not just a Speedrun challenge. It grinds my gears that people consider 70 day worlds too long and want everything done before that. How about something to do after the first summer, that would be nice.

Me too, I lose interest after two years usually. 

[goatt]

37 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Is a dark sword a character perk? No.

Why doesn't it matter? You fail to demonstrate why character perk cannot be locked like dark sword. Bookcase is just one item among many character items. Even if we take Walter as you mentioned for example, he also has items locked behind shadow manipulator.

42 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

You're forcing the player to craft a manipulator to craft another manipulator, to craft a darksword.

It's misleading to call bookcase the "same thing" as shadow manipulator (SM). They are very different, obviously, I don't think I need to explain that. They are only the same in the way that they server as tech stations. Putting bookcase behind SM essentially makes bookcase Tier 3 tech. What's the problem with that?

 

43 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

My tedium comment is based on an experience gamer who knows about balance in video games. I can recognize game loops, balance, patterns, developer intentions, etc etc has nothing to do with dst itself. 

Doesn't change the fact that you prioritize your subjective experience in making arguments, and you strongly believe your own experience over different opinions over other people, which isn't convincing. Your preference, your subjective experience, I think those manifest ... "bias"?

To clarify, I am not invalidate your experience. Your feeling of tedium about my suggestion is valid and I respect that. But your "tedium=progress" is ... just bad as an argument and as an comment.

[HowlVoid]

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

Why doesn't it matter? You fail to demonstrate why character perk cannot be locked like dark sword.

Fail to demonstrate? I don't need to demonstrate anything one is an item that is optional, the other is a characters perk. If I have to explain why these things are fundamentally different, you don't understand video games.

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

Bookcase is just one item among many character items.

The floor is made out of floor.

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

Even if we take Walter as you mentioned for example, he also has items locked behind shadow manipulator.

Yeah, I don't how to explain this to you if my previous explanation went over you head.

They are locked behind 1 station, The psuedoscience station. You are trying to lock a station behind a station, behind a station.  

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

It's misleading to call bookcase the "same thing" as shadow manipulator (SM).

You weren't even aware that wicker can craft manipulator tier craftables with the encyclopedia. I'd say making uniformed proposal is not only misleading, but also harmful to the discussion.

Also, strange given you're the one who keeps making the comparison. "A shadow sword is locked behind a manipulator", isn't that what you said? 

But now it's misleading to compare the two? 

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

They are very different, obviously, I don't think I need to explain that.

I think you may need to explain it to yourself given you keep insisting locking a dark sword behind a manipulator is the same as locking the book case behind the manipulator. Do they share a purpose in progression or not?

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

They are only the same in the way that they server as tech stations.

Lmao! They are only the same in that both tech stations act as tech stations? 

The floor and the ground aren't the same, they are only the same in that you can walk on them.

This is word soup at this point.

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

Putting bookcase behind SM essentially makes bookcase Tier 3 tech. What's the problem with that?

I've explained why. You're taking a games progression loop and looping onto itself for no reason. 

Exactly as you said, you're adding an arbitrary tier 3 shadow tier on a single character that is not present on any other character. For the sake of... Progression? You claim it's progression already found in the game, but then go to make a made up tier that doesn't exist. 

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

Doesn't change the fact that you prioritize your subjective experience in making arguments, and you strongly believe your own experience over different opinions over other people, which isn't convincing.

My claims are not subjective at all, you can find many examples of character exclusive crafts locked behind tiers that are suitable for that items power.

Ironically everything you've said has been subjective, going as far as implementing a made up tier that doesn't exist. Adding "balance" that doesn't exist 

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

Your preference, your subjective experience, I think those manifest ... "bias"?

I try to implement ideas that work as thematically, as balanced and as mechanically identical to things that are already present in don't starve together.

You on the other hand want make things up and add things that don't exist and go as far as brake balance that's already in the game. Add arbitrary tiers that don't exist, add arbitrary reasons such as "because she needs to graduate from magic school" (if this isn't subjective I don't know what is), going as far as speaking on behalf of Wicker bottom players that delaying her magic equates to a better experience.

Everything you've said has been of based off your point of view of how "things should work" with hardly any evidence to back up your claims. 

19 minutes ago, goatt said:

To clarify, I am not invalidate your experience. Your feeling of tedium about my suggestion is valid and I respect that. But your "tedium=progress" is ... just bad as an argument and as an comment.

Trying to reduce tedium to make progress more fluent is a valid argument that even the developers themselves have tried to implement time, and time, and time again 

Why do you think farms were reworked? Because the progress of making large farms was tedious.

Why do you think they removed disease? Because to actively watch out for it was tedious. 

Why do you think they added more summer smoldering prevention methods (above average trees) when many, many people complained they would rather turn the whole thing off? Despite summer being the natural progression of the game.

Despite all of these things making you work for making progress in the game, advancing the games time (summer), acquiring more resources for more vegetables (farms), making you work for transplanting large amounts of resources closer to base (disease). Do you know why they keep getting addresses, reworked, or outright removed? I'll tell you why:

Because people don't like tedious chores, that's why. You may not like that a lack of tedium may equal progression, but it is an equation that has resonated with fans of the game since the launch of the series. Working for your progress is fine, we all want to feel like something is earned, but the are rules to how things need to work. Respecting that balance is what will improve people's experience, not made up things.

[AugyBear]

I'm not sure I follow along with the argument that gathering 4 living logs is a tedious chore that ruins the gameplay flow for Wickerbottom.

Fresh out of the gate, we're able to craft Birds of the World, Horticulture Abridged, The Angler Survival Guide, Lux Aeterna,  Practical Rain Rituals, and the Everything Encyclopedia.

These are all books a fresh faced player with a modest starter base would find useful, and are extremely cheap to craft (except maybe for rain rituals now).

The advanced books crafted in the Bookcase are highly specialized, expensive, and definitely would see the most benefit from the durability restoration, but let's be clear about what's being gated. The ability to snuff fires, grow plants (bummer, but understandable), spawn tentacles, webs, temperatures, advanced light, advanced farming, full moons, and bees.

By the time I'm concerned with any of those advanced book effects, I have already built a starter base, which necessitates some tree chopping, which leads to treeguards. By the time I want those high end effects, I can afford the living log cost for both a Shadow Manipulator AND a Bookcase. This is doable by the end of Autumn, and maybe by the end of Winter worst case. We can even use the Everything Encyclopedia to skip the Prestihatitator phase (woo!) without needing the Bookcase.

Having the Bookcase cost living logs gives Wicker players something to strive for for their later game goals, like cheesing bosses and mass farming materials. It's not even a tedious cost, since you accumulate living logs naturally during normal gameplay. It's just a way of giving Wicker a progression to her toolkit, rather than skipping straight to endgame.

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As a side note, there's also the eternal argument for those who dislike the recipe: "install a mod". This is one of the best things about DST. Don't like the rules? Make up your own!

Klei is hands down one of the best studios in terms of supporting their modding community, which really renders this whole argument moot. If you don't like the way they did it, then you are welcomed and encouraged to modify the game to your hearts' content. They provide a baseline that they think will satisfy the majority of the player base, and leave the rest to the individual players to fine tune.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, AugyBear said:

I'm not sure I follow along with the argument that gathering 4 living logs is a tedious chore that ruins the gameplay flow for Wickerbottom.

The argument isn't that 4 living logs is a tedious chore. Op wants to increase the cost from 4 living logs, to 7 living logs and that is ADDING a chore that was not a requirement before. Requiring more tries % chance to spawn the corresponding entity. People will default to just looking for the grotto if the next easiest method isn't possible. 

Additionally op says that it follows natural progression, but no such progression exists. All tiers stop at 2, at most character specific items are locked behind tier 2. This conversation is about following establish patterns and balance within the game. 

Wether someone thinks it's a chore or not, or wether someone thinks it breaks the flow of the game or not is subjective. I'm talking about establish boundaries, when a proposal is introducing something that is already an establish balance and extending it longer than normal.

Also saying you're just going to "happen" across a tree guard isn't true. For 7 living logs you'd have a chance of .017689% for two tree guards, with no TNT or mush gnomes. You are most likely going to have to work for those tree guard spawns in most cases. Getting the necessary logs isn't hard of course since then you just need to go down to the grotto. 

I have spent time trying to spawn a tree guard before with a character with no aptitude for it, it's a long task that can take so much of your time.

You're not gating Wicker the way you think you are, the logs are just down by the grotto. I think most of the people who are against what I'm saying don't even realize what I'm arguing for. 

The recipe doesn't need to change away from living logs, a simple reduction in living logs doesn't make it any easier it simply cuts down on RNG. Sure, a wicker can spawn two tree guards after cutting down her first tree but are going to base off your proposals off the most lucky of circumstances and just not care about the other 99% of the experiences other Wickers are going to have?

1 hour ago, AugyBear said:

These are all books a fresh faced player with a modest starter base would find useful, and are extremely cheap to craft (except maybe for rain rituals now).

The advanced books crafted in the Bookcase are highly specialized, expensive, and definitely would see the most benefit from the durability restoration, but let's be clear about what's being gated. The ability to snuff fires, grow plants (bummer, but understandable), spawn tentacles, webs, temperatures, advanced light, advanced farming, full moons, and bees.

This another issue I have with op, basing your experience as being the base line experience or though process everyone else is going to have. 

People. Are. Going. To. Want. To. Rush. The. Bookcase.

The sooner you have it the more value you are going to get per book, this is basic math. Do you think if you gate it behind 5, 7 or even 9, living logs people are going to want it any less. Do you think you are actually gating behind more time and acquiring more balance? Do you think you are actually making it harder? No. You just extend the time wicker is whacking away at gnomes in the grotto. You aren't adding anything new.

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By the time I'm concerned with any of those advanced book effects, I have already built a starter base, which necessitates some tree chopping, which leads to treeguards. 

Dropping the cost to 3 or 2 would have you do the same thing. Increasing the cost to 7 forces you to go to the grotto most of the time.

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Having the Bookcase cost living logs gives Wicker players something to strive for for their later game goals, like cheesing bosses and mass farming materials. It's not even a tedious cost, since you accumulate living logs naturally during normal gameplay. It's just a way of giving Wicker a progression to her toolkit, rather than skipping straight to endgame.

By your initial explanation on when these can be acquired, progression that basically just extends throughout the first season. Wow, so much progress. 

What's more progress that completely circumvent if you find the grotto day 1 by opening a few sinkholes. 

Most people don't even understand the cost is there because the effects are strong not because of progression. Progression actually doesn't have anything to do with it at all! This "progression" can be payed for by the mere existence of Wormwood on the server.  

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As a side note, there's also the eternal argument for those who dislike the recipe: "install a mod". This is one of the best things about DST. Don't like the rules? Make up your own!

I'm on console, but even if I wasn't, caring about balance shouldn't default to "you can just install a mods".

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Klei is hands down one of the best studios in terms of supporting their modding community, which really renders this whole argument moot. If you don't like the way they did it, then you are welcomed and encouraged to modify the game to your hearts' content. They provide a baseline that they think will satisfy the majority of the player base, and leave the rest to the individual players to fine tune.

You are actually being somewhat disrespectful to Klei here because they listen to feedback for a reason. If they thought our voices didn't matter there wouldn't be a forum in the first place.

Secondly, I do love how you are exercising your voice to tell others that their voice doesn't matter on a platform where player opinions have been added to the game 

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This is doable by the end of Autumn, and maybe by the end of Winter worst case.

It's just a way of giving Wicker a progression to her toolkit, rather than skipping straight to endgame.

A contradiction I keep seeing time and time again. 

The claim that it's not hard to get the living logs (it's so easy!) followed by the claim that it's to balance her crafts by introducing a time gate. 

Which one is it? Are you locking them for end game or not?

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[HowlVoid]

Lmao I just realized if the bookcase was a manipulator recipe, you could just use an encyclopedia to craft it at a science machine.

Basically this idea is worse than I thought .