My small rant about lack of players scaling mechanics

[maradyne]

14 hours ago, Cheggf said:

And how would scalBased on nearby players so people can come heal the boss if they coincidentally pass by?

The way I solved this was... basically jump in the middle of the part of code where damage is actually dealt to the boss, check for nearby players at that moment, use that number in a multiplier calculation that lowers the damage value, and then pass it on like normal.

Adaptive armor calculated per-hit; no healing, no permanent effects, just changes based on current conditions at the time of the strike.

 

The question is moreso balance than implementation.

 

 

 

I agree with health just...being a tuning measure to adjust the length of the fight. I personally don't think that fights should be any longer than their mechanics allow the player to remain interested.

[Ardcrumb]

23 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Um what? Most pub servers have people rushing dragonfly, the eye of terror/twins, ancient guardian and bee queen often it's even players soloing them.

Edit: maybe you just didn't notice they killed them did you notice a furnace, mask, or crown for example?

Jesus christ are xbox players that bad? 

 

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, Ardcrumb said:

Jesus christ are xbox players that bad? 

 

Tbf I did hear the game is quite a abit harder on console so maybe that has something to do with it can't really confirm nor deny if it really is though.

[SmallBirdHungry]

I've said this so much in the past. Bosses that spam hordes of minions like bee queen or bosses that expect you to do 97 things at once like crab king are just not very reasonable for solo players. I've wished for so long that raid bosses would scale for solo or bigger groups, because on the other hand, I've seen a group of like 7 people online kill bee queen day 5-ish with some battle spears and helms, and a few wendys.

And if, like me, you play on an xbox where lag is constant and online is a feature you pay extra for, cheesing a raid boss is the only way to really kill them. More recently though, they've started patching out some cheese methods so I think now is a better time than ever to implement a scaling mechanic. And as usual, for those who don't like it, just make it togglable in the world settings. Personally I've beaten every boss in my solo world, but all of the high health ones required some form of cheese or tanking. Spamming pan flute, gunpowder, trapping them, etc. It's too laggy to kite and half the online players on xbox are griefers so having a world public is a death sentence.

20 hours ago, Ardcrumb said:

Jesus christ are xbox players that bad? 

 

Most online games on xbox are below day 10 so yes, but it probably also has to do with the fact that a lot of people don't want to pay 15 dollars a month for online. And lag. So much lag on consoles.

I also see some people saying they should adjust drops too which makes sense because if they scale health to make bosses actually somewhat difficult for huge groups, then dropping one special bee crown or shield of terror isnt enough, since most people will just rush in to grab it for themselves. I love terraria and whenever I play it with my brother and sister there's no way I'm playing normal mode. Splitting a few items between us is so annoying, especially rare drops. Expert and Master mode aren't even much harder but the treasure bags make it so worth it, not to mention accessory slots! There's no way I'm helping anyone fight a raid boss if I know they're just going to hoard the loot and refuse to split it.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, SmallBirdHungry said:

that expect you to do 97 things at once like crab king

rowing method sure but pressing F and using ice staffs and wp isnt that much... i mean, the most popular online games already use 4 skills and are popular because is easy to press 4 keys...

[Ardcrumb]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

rowing method sure but pressing F and using ice staffs and wp isnt that much... i mean, the most popular online games already use 4 skills and are popular because is easy to press 4 keys...

I want to fight crab King in my own specific way, not just only purple gems and stopping his attacks, I want to cannon barrage that dirt bag with a boat made out of pure thulecite. 

But I can only spend like 80 logs on making boats instead

[SmallBirdHungry]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

rowing method sure but pressing F and using ice staffs and wp isnt that much... i mean, the most popular online games already use 4 skills and are popular because is easy to press 4 keys...

That's the thing. On console, quickly switching weapons and using them takes so long that they'll pretty much be unfrozen by the time you switch over to a weapon and because of the lag you need to start trying to shoot ice staff way before they unfreeze.

[Cloakingsumo198]

53 minutes ago, SmallBirdHungry said:

Snip

Straight up if you try to attack while switching weapons your character's brain just shuts off and they stand there doing nothing.

Spoiler

Atleast until you destroy your joysticks and mash all the buttons then they move again.

PC is much easier if you switch tools while swinging they just keep swinging.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, SmallBirdHungry said:

That's the thing. On console, quickly switching weapons and using them takes so long that they'll pretty much be unfrozen by the time you switch over to a weapon and because of the lag you need to start trying to shoot ice staff way before they unfreeze.

??? is just moving you pad to the next inventory slot

[mr. brj]

On 7/11/2022 at 5:06 PM, Eughstein said:

it would be pretty cool if some boss attacks also would increase or decrease basing on amount of players fighting them(like we already have with Klaus), for example Bee Queen's Grumble bees and FW's woven shadows.

I don't agree with the HP scaling but I want this to be a thing. Especially the number of minions Bee Queen spawns scaling downwards for solo players. I have already posted my suggestions on that under the Suggestions/Feedback threads.

Scaling the number of Woven Shadows is also an interesting idea, but I would rather have their movement speed scaled (and Fuelweaver's, but just a small amount), making it possible for a solo player to lure FW to one corner and destroy a good number of Woven Shadows before he comes back to you, and making it harder for, let's say, 6 players including a Wendy to just tank and spank and not move a single step. Scaling down the number of Shadows has the potential to nerf the whole fight to the ground, and is difficult to balance when there are multiple characters with positive/negative damage modifiers.

Lastly, I might get lots of hate for this one so I'll just hide it for anyone interested. Small spoiler though, this suggestion won't make fighting the Dragonfly any easier at all:

Spoiler

I want Dragonfly to gain an exponential status resistance based on the number of players around. As in she needs 1 blow from a panflute to be able to put to sleep when there are up to 3 players around, but 2 blows when 4 or more players are around, 3 blows when there are 6, etc. (followers shouldn't count for this, I'm not that evil lol). Many people are missing out the full Dragonfly fight and I believe it's because building walls+using panflutes against Dfly is among the first cheese methods we all learned in DST. To the point where this method is not considered cheese by the majority anymore. This scaling won't make anyone want to fight the enraged Dfly, true, but at least it reminds players that the enraged Dfly is still a thing (with an additional chance of walls getting destroyed after failed attempts of panflute casts).

 

[Eughstein]

32 minutes ago, mr. brj said:

 

  Hide contents

I want Dragonfly to gain an exponential status resistance based on the number of players around. As in she needs 1 blow from a panflute to be able to put to sleep when there are up to 3 players around, but 2 blows when 4 or more players are around, 3 blows when there are 6, etc. (followers shouldn't count for this, I'm not that evil lol). Many people are missing out the full Dragonfly fight and I believe it's because building walls+using panflutes against Dfly is among the first cheese methods we all learned in DST. To the point where this method is not considered cheese by the majority anymore. This scaling won't make anyone want to fight the enraged Dfly, true, but at least it reminds players that the enraged Dfly is still a thing (with an additional chance of walls getting destroyed after failed attempts of panflute casts).

 

Tbh i think case of enraged df is similar to what was with AG, taking fire damage and getting grilled in few seconds risk isn't worth df drops, so because of that people just use panflute, but I want to say that there is a big difference in cased of AG and DF, AG had rng based bad loot and his cheese was just holding f for few minutes with biggest danger being hunger or insanity, df has still kinda good loot and still takes way more effort to kill, such as dodging her attacks and building walls, not even saying about larvaes some times still getting to you even tho you have walls, so i think that df could get some changes but they aren't really required 

 

 

[Mike23Ua]

My opinion is actually a pretty simple one: everything Klei has added into the game, every rework, every tweak, every boss fight all of it is content they designed for the game- some of that content may be a bit too difficult to enjoy without other players- such as boss fights or when your tiny boat gets swarmed by a group of stunlock capable mobs…

But for the most part- if these things could be “fine tuned” to the players liking.. then all of it is content that COULD be being enjoyed if only that content was not locked behind some skill gap or lengthy quest line.

As an example to this: I can join a world where someone has already activated the Moonstorm event & enjoy that content immediately OR I can spend forever and two decades to do pearls quests, kill crab king, get the altar parts, kill Celestial Champion.

In my humble opinion Moonstorms & Sandstorms Alike should’ve been toggleable weather hazards without all the extra steps and hoops needed to jump through- why? Because I can go to my world settings right now- toggle off every season but Summer and get guaranteed Sandstorms that’s why…

Why can’t I do the same for Eye of the Storm content? (Of which I’ve only been able to experience if I’ve joined someone else’s game who has activated it..)

As far as bosses go most of them have unique fighting patterns, or minion mobs for you to fight (such as larvae when fighting Dragonfly) but those bosses are also massive time sink health sponges

The question we need to ask our selves is what harm does it do to let players access content earlier without needing to be Mid-Late Game experienced in getting to it?

for example: Cobblestone turf (arguably the most useful turf in the game) is craftable with a cheap crafting cost and without needing to find that terrafirma whatever thing.. so then- why are all the other turfs locked behind this skill gap? 

Turn of Tides, Water Logged, Sea Shells Sea Shells and Curse Moon Quay are my favorite kind of updates because you don’t need to be this experienced skilled player to access these things- you can build as little as a grass boat and paddle your way out to that content whenever you desire doing so.

Bosses on the other hand.. require either grabbing a few friends, or a ton of setup and preparation, it’s NOT content you can tackle immediately (at least not for most players anyway..) Meanwhile- all the sailing to new horizons… that stuff HAS Been new content you can experience as soon as your able to find it.

When I bought DS, when I bought Shipwrecked.. when I bought Hamlet I did not buy ANY of those to fight raid bosses or do long lengthy quests- I bought them to explore new biomes, new weather hazards, encounter new mobs, gather new resources, craft new survival tools and do all of these things without taking literal hours of my time to enjoy.

Ive said it before and I’ll say it until I run out of breath: I throughly enjoyed hamlet and shipwrecked (even though I’ve barely done anything in either one of them..) Because of how lively the environments felt, brimming with plant life, peaceful & hostile mobs & resources.. I enjoy chipping away at a tree only to have a chance of some small mob I can easily kill with a spear to drop out and attack.

This is all content I can experience in a span of less than 30 minutes, and it’s also probably why Midsummers Cawnival is such a loved event for DST- BECAUSE it’s content you can experience without a lengthy grind.

When it came to boats prior to the grass raft being added I felt it was too punishing too resource costly to explore with a boat, one minor mistake and goodbye fully upgraded boat.. but with the inclusion of grass boats and as little as a driftwood oar and some sticks and grass you can now explore all that content without fear of losing your fully decked out boats.

It makes content that was a grind to do and makes it faster and more accessible so you spend less time repetitively gathering resources… and more time enjoying the biomes, mobs and content of the game.

And the more content I can walk or sail right into without a huge quest line or preparing a ton of resources for- the better. That INCLUDES being able to scale bosses for solo/ 2 players coop to still be challenging and enjoyable- but without the health designed for a group of 4-6 players

[mr. brj]

1 minute ago, Eughstein said:

snip

Yeah true, plus its not like people are not engaging during the Dragonfly Fight. I just hope that if it ever gets a rework, the fight itself doesn't change on a fundamental level. The enraged Dragonfly is actually quite fun to fight against.

[Frosty_Mentos]

While it would be nice I don't think hp scaling is necessary on current bosses we got. They either got too much hp or decent amount. Anything horrific hp wise is either red gem crab king or misery toad but they're just that

[Guille6785]

8 hours ago, mr. brj said:

  Hide contents

I want Dragonfly to gain an exponential status resistance based on the number of players around. As in she needs 1 blow from a panflute to be able to put to sleep when there are up to 3 players around, but 2 blows when 4 or more players are around, 3 blows when there are 6, etc. (followers shouldn't count for this, I'm not that evil lol). Many people are missing out the full Dragonfly fight and I believe it's because building walls+using panflutes against Dfly is among the first cheese methods we all learned in DST. To the point where this method is not considered cheese by the majority anymore. This scaling won't make anyone want to fight the enraged Dfly, true, but at least it reminds players that the enraged Dfly is still a thing (with an additional chance of walls getting destroyed after failed attempts of panflute casts).

 

I'm 100% sure you aren''t supposed to fight enraged dfly at all

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, mr. brj said:

I want Dragonfly to gain an exponential status resistance based on the number of players around. As in she needs 1 blow from a panflute to be able to put to sleep when there are up to 3 players around, but 2 blows when 4 or more players are around, 3 blows when there are 6, etc. (followers shouldn't count for this, I'm not that evil lol). Many people are missing out the full Dragonfly fight and I believe it's because building walls+using panflutes against Dfly is among the first cheese methods we all learned in DST. To the point where this method is not considered cheese by the majority anymore. This scaling won't make anyone want to fight the enraged Dfly, true, but at least it reminds players that the enraged Dfly is still a thing (with an additional chance of walls getting destroyed after failed attempts of panflute casts).

If there are 4+ people fighting dfly then they are going to burst her to death in like 2 seconds while tanking her single target attacks. Unless you're suggesting she also does aoe damage and has like 10x health and has the lavae go through walls and is completely immune to the pan flute because nobody is going to care that it takes two uses people are going to miss out on the fight.

If someone doesn't want to miss out on the fight they will just fight her normally. They are making the decision to fight her the way they are because they don't like fighting. 

[W0l0l0]

It would be nice if a boss could be "enraged" to increase their difficulty and drops with something as simple as giving the gigantic beehive a torch or something, a similar system to Toadstool. 

[maradyne]

4 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

It would be nice if a boss could be "enraged" to increase their difficulty and drops with something as simple as giving the gigantic beehive a torch or something, a similar system to Toadstool. 

... admittedly, I love this idea just because I want to see people fleeing from swarms of flaming, exceptionally angy bees.

[Bumber64]

On 7/11/2022 at 6:03 PM, Cheggf said:

Based on nearby players so people can come heal the boss if they coincidentally pass by?

DST already rescales health by percent (e.g., rock lobsters when they grow larger and gain more max health.) When the player exits range, the health would just go back down again.