Is Klei cutting corners?

[Nettalie]

3 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Banana Bushes being able to grow in winter was a bug and was fixed with the release of the update.

The TL:DR for why it happened is because Banana Bushes had two components tied to them both responsible for growth, which also resulted in them growing twice, and being able to bypass withered, unfertilization, and winter(which technically did still 'function' as they disabled one of the components responsible for growth)

Well that's awfully convenient, thanks for clearing that up.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

That being said I do think it is extremely weird that bananas of all things grow in winter and i still think that's a bug or other sort of oversight, same kinda goes for figs but those also take 20 days to plant for 3 or 4 regrowable fruit so i guess that's okay.

i agree with that feels weird but people talking about the game becoming easier just because at day 100 you got a plant that grow in winter...

[h2mk]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes but keep in mind Klei puts themselves on a tight crunch schedule to pump out monthly content updates, it’s possible they will circle back around later & add to/polish up loose ends.

skill issue

1 hour ago, Fuffles said:

Seems like more than just the art style is being washed out, the uncompromising and survival part is also slowly dissolving

I remember when the forums were filled with this complaint, around right before uncompromising mod was made

[Nettalie]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i agree with that feels weird but people talking about the game becoming easier just because at day 100 you got a plant that grow in winter...

Yeah no I definitely disagree with that personally. If anything content like this just comes off to people as easier because it doesn't quite feel as punishing as some less well designed aspects of the game or because they have so much experience and want that feeling of everything being a huge threat from when we all had way less knowledge about the game.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record at this point but I do genuinely feel like the game hasn't gotten easier, it's just the players that have so much experience feel things are easier because... well they have experience. And even when a change has made something easier it's usually some kind of mechanic that a lot of people don't consider very fair to begin with.

[h2mk]

3 minutes ago, Lizardhiney said:

I remember when the forums were filled with this complaint, around right before uncompromising mod was made

It's maybe a lame vague complaint, almost like being mad that new features are being added. The only real  solution I can think of is adding whatever the complainant in question wants in the game and getting rid of what they don't :/

[Just-guy]

I think this is a very nitpicky problem.

While the lack of unique quotes is underwhelming, it doesn't really affect the actual gameplay, if the player planted a Monkey Tail and sees that is whitered it would already know that it needs fertilization for the visual and similar experiences with the Berry Bush and Grass Tuft.

[Mike23Ua]

14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i agree with that feels weird but people talking about the game becoming easier just because at day 100 you got a plant that grow in winter...

It’s not just that, other things pile onto that- such as reduced resource costs of weapons, armor, craftables, cobblestone turf etc.. And the Day 1 Beefalo Bell Bond. All of this DOES make the game feel easier- but that’s not necessarily a bad thing either: I would love to be able to get an “Entry Level Difficulty” so even the most least skilled of my friends can play and enjoy the game with me and- Should we choose: Can up the Ante in difficulty, mob behavior, challenges etc later..

Does just being able to grow veggies in Winter make the game less difficult? Absolutely not.. but does being able to start a Beefalo herd in caves so if all the ones on the surface die you have spares? Absolutely.

and lately non renewable resources you had to be extra cautious and take care to not have destroyed now regrow such as Catcoon Dens, Desert Cactus & Reeds.

Meanwhile actual dangerous and hazardous things do NOT regrow over time like uhh the random swamp tentacles that still manage to smack me up when I’m not paying attention- I would LOVE IT if Klei would make the game recognize how many swamp tentacles are in a swamp and when it gets below X number: New ones spawn up in new locations.

or if BEE Hives had the same kind of regrowth structure that Spider nests do (One Bee can start a hive- Normal or Aggressive randomly)

These are the things that would restore my faith in Klei that they aren’t just making everything completely compromising- but for the time being… I’m enjoying the Moon Quay update.

[h2mk]

1 minute ago, Just-guy said:

I think this is a very nitpicky problem.

While the lack of unique quotes is underwhelming, it doesn't really affect the actual gameplay, if the player planted a Monkey Tail and sees that is whitered it would already know that it needs fertilization for the visual and similar experiences with the Berry Bush and Grass Tuft.

I haven't actually seen the inspections, they're not on the wiki yet for reference w/ this post 

[Mysterious box]

31 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

My guess is people think decisions like letting certain plants grow in winter takes away from part of why winter is difficult to begin with. And this is just in the case of winter,

Tbf this was and still is the case for many players many servers are often saved because one person in particular chooses to rush lunar or is really into farming despite meat still being plentiful in winter as well as there being multiple non meat options in winter like cactus.

 

34 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

Either that or people expect the game's challenges to stay the same in a lot of areas such as seasons and when something goes against that design that it can feel like an "easy way out" or like once you get x then y threat is dealt with forever past that point.

That being said I don't think many will disagree the game on the whole is slowly getting easier despite minor threats being added (not including the monkeys which are probably the biggest non boss threat we've had in years)

[h2mk]

I don't think the game's easier, there's a lot of new avenues into getting yourself killed.

I still die a lot and lose worlds to fighting different creatures in the game, maybe because I'm not as much of an elite pro strats player as others on this forum. The game's still a struggle for me as it's always been. Getting food is pretty inconvenient pretty often, no matter what character I play, except maybe Webber but I don't play him often. Just sailing in a boat and checking out anything you come across can be pretty dangerous, because you might run out of food or go insane unless you have a tam o shanter, and the seasons might change so unless you're pretty far in the game AND are organized enough to keep good seasonal gear and sewing kits near you most of the time you still need to deal with the base issues that RoG/DS provides you with in addition to the new features that the game gives you. At the end of the day with a Beefalo Bell it is more convenient than the taming system used to be, but you still need to feed the Beefalo and actually tame him.

And for example I could go take advantage of the Lunar Island if I'm low on sanity but it would waste a fair bit of my time, and the more time that I keep wasting the less time I will have to be able to prepare for something like growing hound waves.

I've never really been on a boat where I've had EVERYTHING that I needed prepared, there's always a grass issue or a sanity or food problem, I might not find the island I'm looking for in time. It's never happened to me, but if you're in the middle of the ocean and a significant enough hound wave comes for you, and you might not be like, full health at the time you're in a lot of danger. I think that the boats are really cool because I can get lost in the dream of being a cool pirate like Tom Sawyer and end up finding myself crying back home, but still I will probably try again later lol

You know what would be a cool feature for making the game harder though? Something like an aporkalypse! That'd be awesome and I really hope it's something Klei implements, Imagine a boss that you have to defeat to stop an aporkalypse-like event by say, day 60 or 100, 120 maybe. I think that'd be cool. THAT is a cool idea for a new "seasonal" boss.

[finn from human]

I won't lie, it is incredibly petty and ungrateful to see an incredibly content-packed update that took 6 months to make, has highly requested things like pirate raids and a new island with a new tree type, had an unprecedented pack of, again, highly-requested pirate themed character skins for a content update when normally those tend to come around the time of events, and all of the other incredible stuff in this update... and then your takeaway from it is "Klei is so lazy and cutting corners, I mean look: this new plant grows in winter, and they only wrote like 1800 character quotes in this update, rather than like 1850." Is this really worth complaining about?

[h2mk]

1 minute ago, meow meow meow said:

I won't lie, it is incredibly petty and ungrateful to see an incredibly content-packed update that took 6 months to make, has highly requested things like pirate raids and a new island with a new tree type, had an unprecedented pack of, again, highly-requested pirate themed character skins for a content update when normally those tend to come around the time of events, and all of the other incredible stuff in this update... and then your takeaway from it is "Klei is so lazy and cutting corners, I mean look: this new plant grows in winter, and they only wrote like 1800 character quotes in this update, rather than like 1850." Is this really worth complaining about?

ok it wasn't THAT great

[Antynomity]

1 hour ago, Fuffles said:

Seems like more than just the art style is being washed out, the uncompromising and survival part is also slowly dissolving

Oh my gawd game's not uncompromising anymore because they added a food source that grows in winter!!!! That you need to sail for, possibly for hours, and be at risk of dying to monkey pirates, if you're doing it early on in the game at least, and even in the late game, the effort to get enough banana bushes to have enough for mass production instantly shows that the game is still uncompromising

[h2mk]

3 minutes ago, meow meow meow said:

I won't lie, it is incredibly petty and ungrateful to see an incredibly content-packed update that took 6 months to make, has highly requested things like pirate raids and a new island with a new tree type, had an unprecedented pack of, again, highly-requested pirate themed character skins for a content update when normally those tend to come around the time of events, and all of the other incredible stuff in this update... and then your takeaway from it is "Klei is so lazy and cutting corners, I mean look: this new plant grows in winter, and they only wrote like 1800 character quotes in this update, rather than like 1850." Is this really worth complaining about?

Maybe if he prefaced with "I love and appreciate this new update and all the features that came with it, but" you'd be happy?

[Nettalie]

43 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That being said I don't think many will disagree the game on the whole is slowly getting easier despite minor threats being added (not including the monkeys which are probably the biggest non boss threat we've had in years)

But how is it getting easier?
What content that is added or changed actively made the game straight up easier?
The only things I can think of that made something easier are reap what you sow, which only technically made things easier because farming is now a mechanic that actually yields good amounts of food for a reasonable price, and maybe character refreshes because a character gets something new to their kit or because the things a character can actually use are more fleshed out, which again only technically makes things easier in that we can now use characters more effectively that didn't work all too well before or because a character got like a few new items and qol improvements.

Almost anything else that was added or changed is not as cut and dry as simply being made easier, most things that somehow in someway made some aspect easier were either qol improvements to things that most people agreed were not great or fun before or things that have a higher potential payoff/payout for some other cost/risk.

Toning down pure punishment/Rewarding players for things is not the same thing as dumbing down the game's difficulty. By that metric DS hamlet would be the easiest out of the dlcs because it made certain items more rewnewable and because content such as characters have big potential for rewards.

[Capybara007]

i liked this update a lot

[finn from human]

4 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

But how is it getting easier?
What content that is added or changed actively made the game straight up easier?

Honestly? The last change I can remember that specifically made the game "easier" was touch stones going from single use to one per player... back in, what, 2017? 2016? The truth of the matter is simply that when you play DST for years, every piece of new content is being experienced with all of that previous knowledge you've built up. The game isn't getting easier: you're getting better.

[Eughstein]

also enlightment crown is op too!it gives you infinite light!back in the days there were no infinite light, klei clearly cutting corners!!idc that you need to summon and kill celestial chapmion, we all know that everyone kills celestial champion at least on day 4

[. . .]

as long as they add interesting content with good gameplay value like pirate monkeys and new island i don't mind if all the characters had the same examine quotes for new stuff, though that's just me.

as much as i think bananas shouldn't grow in winter, but ever since farming update farm crops grow in winter so i guess banana can too..

[Well-met]

this is a fairly big accusation for such a minuscule issue

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Nettalie said:

Toning down pure punishment/Rewarding players for things is not the same thing as dumbing down the game's difficulty. By that metric DS hamlet would be the easiest out of the dlcs because it made certain items more rewnewable and because content such as characters have big potential for rewards.

Calling it dumbing it down is the wrong way to put it your making it sound condescending but making a game less punishing and more rewarding is indeed lowering the difficulty regardless of how we put it and I assume your probably thinking mainly in terms of farming and disease but I'm thinking more in terms of things like additional world regrowth which makes mistakes player mistakes and rng less punishing although I do understand that was more so to combat griefers, stone fruits a mobile  techincally non perishable source of food and rocks that multiplies over time and eventually has no upkeep cost, kelp a food source with no upkeep that regrow very fast, the beefalo bell which greatly eases the process of handling a beefalo while also making them accessible in caves. I'm sure there's more i missed but I feel like it's enough to get the point Renewability of resources and limitations are a big part of difficulty balancing in resource management games but it's also not as simply as just having explosive advantages

2 hours ago, Nettalie said:

maybe character refreshes because a character gets something new to their kit or because the things a character can actually use are more fleshed out, which again only technically makes things easier in that we can now use characters more effectively that didn't work all too well before or because a character got like a few new items and qol improvements.

I mean very few characters were actually mechanically broken and they've all become a lot more powerful in one way or another.

That being said I'm not trying to imply the game becoming easier is a bad thing for me or the game overall the basics becoming easier simply paves the way for more people to focus on the harder content

[maxwell_winters]

2 hours ago, meow meow meow said:

The truth of the matter is simply that when you play DST for years, every piece of new content is being experienced with all of that previous knowledge you've built up. The game isn't getting easier: you're getting better.

Reminds me of complaints about Wanda being OP and not glass cannon-ey enough. Of course, she wouldn't be that hard for an experienced player who learned the kiting patterns, always carries an armor with them and uses the ruins loot. However, the beginners will not have an easy time with her. 

[HowlVoid]

I haven't needed to stock up on food for winter since 2015.

If someone is stocking up on food to find quay island to avoid stocking up on food during winter, maaaaan. I am at a loss for words.

[sosiskaKi]

They should add something like critical temperature for plants, when they stop their timer to reproduce food. You'd can regulate plant conditions with stars and moons like farms in caves now.

[h1mk]

49 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I haven't needed to stock up on food for winter since 2015.

If someone is stocking up on food to find quay island to avoid stocking up on food during winter, maaaaan. I am at a loss for words.

naught a balance problem, more about immersion