Is Klei cutting corners?

[Eughstein]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

Reminds me of complaints about Wanda being OP and not glass cannon-ey enough. Of course, she wouldn't be that hard for an experienced player who learned the kiting patterns, always carries an armor with them and uses the ruins loot. However, the beginners will not have an easy time with her. 

i remember on one server experienced people complaining about how new updates add only updates for noobs and early game while on other new players were complaining about all updates having too hard content

[Mysterious box]

I'm beginning to think the word "easier" is a derogatory term on this forum like the mere thought that content has been added to make survival easier is a direct challenge to other people and their playstyles and should be prompted mocked at the earliest convenience as such I shall strive to have kiel censor this word so as to avoid offending people with this term from now on.

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Eughstein said:

i remember on one server experienced people complaining about how new updates add only updates for noobs and early game while on other new players were complaining about all updates having too hard content

It’s a mixed bag- I’ve never bothered to fight ANY of the games added raid bosses because that content wasn’t ever designed with the intentions that a solo player would attempt to take it on- if you can.. good job, want a cookie or something? But for most people- it’s too much prep work, too much resource set up, having to learn perfecting kiting patterns etc- it’s just not fun.. especially knowing you could squad up with a few other players and have achieved the same task in significantly less time with less set up or resources required.

I feel like the new Moon Quay raids when they are at higher number day counts is also incredibly overwhelming for a Solo Player, and I say this as a Wendy Main who lets Abigail shred most mobs FOR me.. there’s no way I want to deal with that many monkeys as any other playable character.

Then you have the problem of if content is too easy & mostly just for casual play (cough cough Midsummers Cawnival) then people who want some real survival content feel left out, then when we get survival content: it has to be balanced between your average player who wants to feel like their surviving.. and your elite die hard pros who want everything to be “end game” levels hard.

Klei needs to understand that their game will often hit the people playing it with a hard roadblock- take myself for example: I don’t use bundling wraps I have NEVER used Bundling Wraps because I’ve never bothered trying to kill the Bee Queen for that blueprint and Without those Bundling Wraps then the player is playing the game on a literal countdown timer that is probably worse than Wanda’s…

Your Food spoils, if you rely on food for healing your health restoring foods spoil, forget using Hambats because when you craft one those spoil out of use before you even get to the mob or area of the game you wanted to use them in.. it just becomes a drastically different game- one where you default to using spears or Darkswords for most encounters.

Travel further down the rabbit hole and you discover the players who haven’t even figured out they can put food into a crock pot so they’re still running around cooking loose veggies or meat.

How do you design or balance content like that with a player skill gap?

Klei finally added an OPTION for players to turn off Fire Hounds but keep hound waves toggled on- this lets ME still enjoy hound waves in games where my friends may not be aware that killing a fire hound in base will set the entire base up in blazing inferno. 
Everything can’t be end game levels hard.. but at the same time: I don’t want any content that COULD offer up a challenge to end up Nerfed to the point of being a forgettable non-threat.

There needs to be a middle ground.. and I think giving the player the ability to do things such as turn off fire hounds but keep hound waves on or set a world to having lots of flowers but no butterflies to use for easy healing- massively helps in finding that middle ground.

[Gashzer]

On 7/1/2022 at 4:45 PM, Hornete said:

Banana Bushes being able to grow in winter was a bug and was fixed with the release of the update.

The TL:DR for why it happened is because Banana Bushes had two components tied to them both responsible for growth, which also resulted in them growing twice, and being able to bypass withered, unfertilization, and winter(which technically did still 'function' as they disabled one of the components responsible for growth)

Edit 1: Hmm disregard my statements, I'll need some more time to look into this. Banana Bushes having two growth timers was fixed but the function responsible for making plants not grow in winter only affects one of the growth timers, which was the one that was disabled.

Edit 2: Alright, I can confirm withering and fertilization still works and is needed, and the bushes do not have two growth timers any longer. It's just they are still able to grow in winter, I will report this.

Its not a bug tho, bananas need to grow during winter so people don't get trapped cursed for the whole winter. It would be a bad gameplay design choice if they didn't.

Clearly they had mixed views hence the two timers. But in the end, they chose the growth timer which works in winter. 

[Szczuku]

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Its not a bug tho, bananas need to grow during winter so people don't get trapped cursed for the whole winter. It would be a bad gameplay design choice if they didn't.

Clearly they had mixed views hence the two timers. But in the end, they chose the growth timer which works in winter. 

There are bananas in the ruins. From both the trees and the monkeys.

And being forced to either go to the ruins in the winter or stay as Wonkey for the whole season would be the, y'know, 'curse' part of the whole curse mechanic

[Hornete]

 

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Clearly they had mixed views hence the two timers. But in the end, they chose the growth timer which works in winter. 

You are confused.

The two 'growth timers' are from completely different components, one component is responsible for multi-stage growth which is responsible for spider dens, farm plants, and etc. While the other component's main use is for picking they also bundled it with a simple one stage growth mechanic which grass saplings, and berry bushes use. The banana bushes just needed the actual picking function but they had made a mistake of applying the timer mechanic from the picking component.

I'm not interested in arguing whether it's bad game design or not, because that is not the point I am making with my post, I am simply pointing out it is most likely a bug or an oversight due to a call to a function that is specifically meant to stop growth in Winter for the entity.

[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

There are bananas in the ruins. From both the trees and the monkeys.

And being forced to either go to the ruins in the winter or stay as Wonkey for the whole season would be the, y'know, 'curse' part of the whole curse mechanic

Nah cause you have to get the banana bushes from the monkey island... which is dangerous enough as is, plus you need to balance the curse for all player levels... not everyone is gonna run to ruins (winter rain to deal with in caves too), then sail back to monkey queen. Not very fair or fun.

3 minutes ago, Hornete said:

 

You are confused.

The two 'growth timers' are from completely different components, one component is responsible for multi-stage growth which is responsible for spider dens, farm plants, and etc. While the other component's main use is for picking they also bundled it with a simple one stage growth mechanic which grass saplings, and berry bushes use. The banana bushes just needed the actual picking function but they had made a mistake of applying the timer mechanic from the picking component.

I'm not interested in arguing whether it's bad game design or not, because that is not the point I am making with my post, I am simply pointing out it is most likely a bug or an oversight due to a call to a function that is specifically meant to stop growth in Winter for the entity.

Nah maybe they copy-pasted code then changed it to grow in winter 

[Capybara007]

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

because that content wasn’t ever designed with the intentions that a solo player would attempt to take it on- if you can.. good job, want a cookie or something? But for most people- it’s too much prep work, too much resource set up, having to learn perfecting kiting patterns etc- it’s just not fun...

It is fun though, for most people even, if klei saw that most people hate fighting bosses they would stop adding them

just because ck exist doesnt mean all bosses will anihilate solo players because they lack "perfect kiting patern skills", you could have ck as the most unbalanced and objectively unfun boss for solo yet that doesnt mean all of the bosses are like that

[Mysterious box]

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I feel like the new Moon Quay raids when they are at higher number day counts is also incredibly overwhelming for a Solo Player, and I say this as a Wendy Main who lets Abigail shred most mobs FOR me.. there’s no way I want to deal with that many monkeys as any other playable character.

Personally I'm in the camp that we should have kept it at the static 4 monkeys and 1 captain that it was originally I still have haven't had the chance to try the 5 monkey 1 captain raid since I have limited playtime atm and the nerfed spawn mechanic makes me feel bored waiting for them to spawn but from experiences I had during the beta the original size was reasonable it was just how often they spawned that was unreasonable.

 

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Then you have the problem of if content is too easy & mostly just for casual play (cough cough Midsummers Cawnival) then people who want some real survival content feel left out, then when we get survival content: it has to be balanced between your average player who wants to feel like their surviving.. and your elite die hard pros who want everything to be “end game” levels hard.

This feels like your shoving people into one role too much I've never come across anyone who wants everything to be endgame level and people who want to feel like they're surviving is something all levels of play generally want aside from people who prefer just the mega basing and building experience often times people leave servers simply because their too bored and have done all the content they feel is reasonable which usually amounts to dragonfly, bee queen, ruins+guardian, and deerclopes.

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

There needs to be a middle ground.. and I think giving the player the ability to do things such as turn off fire hounds but keep hound waves on or set a world to having lots of flowers but no butterflies to use for easy healing- massively helps in finding that middle ground.

This is harder than you may think as many people who take issue with things like these are often not on their own servers therefore kiel is sort of in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

45 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Nah cause you have to get the banana bushes from the monkey island... which is dangerous enough as is

I mean this was dangerous now it's completely safe so long as you don't pick a fight just don't bring anything you aren't prepared to lose even then you can put trash items in your first slots like poop pellets.

[Maxposting]

On 7/1/2022 at 5:54 PM, h2mk said:

I remember when the forums were filled with this complaint, around right before uncompromising mod was made

How the tables have turned.

[h2mk]

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

There are bananas in the ruins. From both the trees and the monkeys.

And being forced to either go to the ruins in the winter or stay as Wonkey for the whole season would be the, y'know, 'curse' part of the whole curse mechanic

Imagine caveless worlds lol