[Game Update] - 513098

[sudoku]

I just wish klei would state more often what their design intentions are for new mechanics they add rather than releasing it into the wild for the forums to debate endlessly on.

If they came out and said this content is meant for late game and to be challenging or this content was too difficult for the stage of the game we anticipated it being played through, we would have clear objectives on what they are trying to accomplish and we could give proper feedback.

It often just feels like the most vocal ultimately end up shaping the direction of the content instead of the actual developers. And im not saying for them to not listen to feedback but id really like to get more developer insight.

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, sudoku said:

It often just feels like the most vocal ultimately end up shaping the direction of the content instead of the actual developers. And im not saying for them to not listen to feedback but id really like to get more developer insight.

Honestly from watching the klei team's live gameplay (it's nail pulling almost) and seeing how atrocious some of the content ends up feeling when it comes out without all the polish from player feedback it sometimes feels like they aren't intune with their own game at times.

Spoiler

That's why some things come out extremely pathetic and disappointing only to be bumped up to satisfactory levels.

"Ocean content, Wolfgang rework,"

Or vice versa where they are unbalanced, annoying, or unfair it would be toned down or adjusted.

"Misery toadstool, crab king"

Of course they probably have to spend more time developing, coding, and brainstorming more about the game than actually playing it to become the "best" at understanding it in and out.

Spoiler

Solo or multiplayer, character choice, seed generation, advanced strategies, "cheese", and gameplay "experience".

Plus all the extra bugs and unintentional effects they may want to fix or leave in... All that type of stuff is better left off to all the willing volunteers on these forums since they can accumulate far more hours of experience in a short time period then any lone developer.

Ultimately klei still has the say on what changes or doesn't

So in essence the next rhymes with klei should be a speedrun challenge. I want to see which dev knows the in's and out's the best.

Ultimately this is what I actually want to see.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Cloakingsumo198

[Juny Pear]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Of our large arsenal of tools, weapons, armors, and other things I feel unwilling to believe there aren't other options when it comes to fighting them regrettably I don't have the console command to spawn a raid and have limited time to test them under multiple scenarios but hey I could be wrong I won't deny that.

A few friends and I have tried pretty much every non character specific method [and even if you'd include char specific things they might not help you much at all].

Currently it's either going all out with super expensive strats such as using napsacks or multiple panflute uses or just having like 3+ people all with stuff like ice staffs and really good armor [which even then can end up not proving enough] or just not fighting them at all and getting stuff stolen [or maybe using cannons which still results in not getting prime mate loot which is what most would be after].

Some of these tests were done in actual worlds people played in where it would sometimes occur that multiple monkey raids happened back to back leaving little breathing room, if any, and thus making even expensive options that worked less and less of an option, where as some were done in test worlds and in neither scenario did a method truly work out well.

The closest it got was using winona's catapults on a second boat you drag along with a nautopilot, but not only is that character specific, its also still really expensive and more risky since you have less direct control of the boat that lags behind.

Pretty much all other methods had some sort of fatal flaw to them because theyre either expensive, didnt take care of nearly enough monkeys to be worthwhile, made your main target behind even fighting them leave entirely or a combination of the three.
Sleep is way too expensive and unreliable because of herd mechanics.
Freezing is not fast enough unless you have more people and coordinate really really well.
Fire... fire is all around a bad idea because at best the prime mate just leaves and at worst your boat could end up catching on fire too.
Followers will aggro you should you turn into wonkey, which is gonna happen very quickly with the amount of trinkets per raid [And in the case of abigail, she will just abandon you].
Face tanking is a huge drain on health and resources. Might last you about 2 raids before needing to get new armor [and this is assuming you have marble suits].
Ranged projectiles are either too weak [slingshot], really expensive to maintain [darts] or just make the prime mate leave [cannon].

Your best bet currently for raids are the bramble husk which works really well due to the fast attacks of the powder monkeys and aoe capabilities, catapult boat with nautopilot or everyone playing some sort of combat centric character on a server of 3 or more people. Those are all character dependent options which means not only will this literally not be something everyone can do, but depending on the actual method they will stop working due to the wonkey curse the best of these is probably the catapults, but those come at the cost of way more awkwardness traversing the ocean as well

Edited June 30, 2022 by Nettalie
Forgot a linebreak

[BeeClops]

I'm not able to test rn, but do I understand this correctly? If you have 20+ twigs in a chest, or 20 give away items whatever, do they just take those and leave you alone? Would having a stack of twigs in the first slot of a chest be enough to ensure they focus on it, or do they steal in no particular order or fashion? 

If that's the case, I think it's a pretty easy early game solution. And it fits, DST always throws big problems with easy solutions at you. I think the panflute method is cheap enough for mid to late game, assuming 1 use is enough to deal with the raid. 

[bagherthegamer]

6 hours ago, ALCRD said:

 It was always looking bad.

Guys its not that bad i swear!! For some bosses it Completly changes the way you fight and think and is overall less risky to use. I was able to rush beequeen really easily and keep my distance while dealing easy dammage to her, same with fuelweawer, with some lureplants you could turn the one of the hardest fight in game to a F holding contest. Please people, give the poor boy a chance!! 

Edit: sorry for the offtopic debate this is the last one i swear. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by bagherthegamer

[ALCRD]

8 minutes ago, bagherthegamer said:

Guys its not that bad i swear!! For some bosses it Completly changes the way you fight and think and is overall less risky to use. I was able to rush beequeen really easily and keep my distance while dealing easy dammage to her, same with fuelweawer, with some lureplants you could turn the one of the hardest fight in game to a F holding contest. Please people, give the poor boy a chance!! 

So its only good with exploits then?

Also needing a entire cargo ship worth of marble to kill one raid boss is discouraging to say the least.

And dealing with the slingshots slow rate of fire on top of ok-ish damage is more painful than getting hit while melee kiting..

Edited June 30, 2022 by ALCRD

[Antynomity]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:49 PM, -Variant said:

Hey! Hey!! Wonkey got new art!!
The new art really resembles my second take on Wonkey, unsure if I made an impact on their decision but it feels GREAT to see this!
I put the new Wonkey next to mine here:

really nice to see Wonkey more fluffy!

[bagherthegamer]

59 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

So its only good with exploits then?

Its BEST with exploits. 

[ALCRD]

3 minutes ago, bagherthegamer said:

Its BEST with exploits. 

Lureplant boss lock exploit works better when paired with Wandas Alarming Clock anyways so slingshot is still poop.

[Antynomity]

I feel like if the future fights are going to be enemy spam and stunlock spam essentially, we need a bigger boat, and extendable parts of said boats that wouldn't be able to hold structures but would be there to give more space for kiting.

[bagherthegamer]

27 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

Lureplant boss lock exploit works better when paired with Wandas Alarming Clock anyways so slingshot is still poop.

Ok you win but i like walter more so whatever!! 

[Mr Giggio]

Im happy for Wormwood tho. The bumble husk was a super good item to deal with monkes before the nerf but still will be in late game raids. Love to see him shinning.

[maxwell_winters]

8 hours ago, sudoku said:

If they came out and said this content is meant for late game and to be challenging or this content was too difficult for the stage of the game we anticipated it being played through, we would have clear objectives on what they are trying to accomplish and we could give proper feedback.

It is clearly a late game challenge. However, the problem is that you can run into it even early on when you're searching for early-mid game stuff in the ocean. And it's not like the ruins you can easily avoid. Imagine if you went to the caves to gather material for bunny hutches and then out of nowhere 2 broken bishops and 2 rooks came and started attacking you. Besides, some features are counterintuitive. Honestly, I don't know how people who don't read this forum would know how to lift the Wonkey curse. 

[Notecja]

7 hours ago, Nettalie said:

Followers will aggro you should you turn into wonkey, which is gonna happen very quickly with the amount of trinkets per raid [And in the case of abigail, she will just abandon you].

So using only Abigail without ataking youself doens't prevent from getting cursed?

[lakhnish]

22 minutes ago, Notecja said:

So using only Abigail without ataking youself doens't prevent from getting cursed?

You will still get cursed since all monkeys drop Cursed Trinkets upon death.

[MondayNight]

10 hours ago, sudoku said:

I just wish klei would state more often what their design intentions are for new mechanics they add rather than releasing it into the wild for the forums to debate endlessly on.

If they came out and said this content is meant for late game and to be challenging or this content was too difficult for the stage of the game we anticipated it being played through, we would have clear objectives on what they are trying to accomplish and we could give proper feedback.

It often just feels like the most vocal ultimately end up shaping the direction of the content instead of the actual developers. And im not saying for them to not listen to feedback but id really like to get more developer insight.

Look at the amount of unimplemented content almost going into release stage but being abruptly cut for various, unstated reasons. Or dev interviews, vids etc where is pointed they solely try things from-concept-to-execution to see how it feels, purely for experimental purposes. KLei proud themselves for "thinking outside of box" tests and experimentation. Probably for a big chunk of content there's only the "it feels cool" reason behind it. If I remember well, the "pirate monkey raid" idea came from community, in relation to SW content (Prime Apes on Boats). For me, personally, there's no mystery these raids aren't very well thought in their balance department, hence the Beta. What is puzzling me though relates to why heavy-/armor tanking is basically only viable, relatively efficient strategy at face-value. There's of course the Panflute, burning their boat or shooting Cannon balls - yet that's still expensive and/or hazardous. On land one pretty much has the kiting without armor alternative always, if good enough with knowledge and practice (on personal servers I kite Klaus for example, start-to-end, without armor or only with Bone variant, no problems; using any character). Tanking while being partially stun-locked (armor - a must-have) is quite some horrid approach as default combat when related to these "pirate monkeys/primates". Non-combat is valid, even if in this case means being looted/stolen from - but not desired by any metric. Bananas? So I need to Ruins-dive Bananas to have pirate raids pacified?! Quite outrageous early-to-mid game I say. Then there's the wide range (overlapping with important oceanic locations via WorldGen RNG) and non-existent cool-down for these raids - why? Except CC, all other in-game mobs/bosses have cool-downs. Why are monkey raids excepted from this, more-so when KLei expressed in past desire for their content to be accessible in any stage of playing, including early-game & rushes?! Maybe successfully killing completely a raid's members should pause them for a couple of days? Still certain cool-down is needed no matter what, to be in tune with rest of game's raid mechanics. There's a lot to write about, covered in previous posts by others as well, but from my pov a thing is certain: current Monkey Pirate raids need more tuning, especially around the kiting alternative.