Don't you hate it that Celestial Champion is summer locked? (can get it around day 65 best case)

[Dextops]

7 minutes ago, reallychina said:

This is a gross exaggeration. While it is possible, it is highly unlikely and it would take a team of very skilled players to coordinate and activate the lunar event that early. The odds of you running in such a world are next to 0.

even if they did this also relies on
1. the moonstorm being at spawn
2. every single player who rushed it to leave the moonstorms there

[reallychina]

9 minutes ago, Dextops said:

even if they did this also relies on
1. the moonstorm being at spawn
2. every single player who rushed it to leave the moonstorms there

Yes, it's such a fringe situation with so many highly unlikely scenarios that would have to come together. And even in the 1/10000 situation when that DOES happen, how is it any different than being trolled/griefed in the other 100 very easy and quick to execute scenarios?

 

Most of the pubs die off during winter to begin with. They wouldn't even get to see the storms.

 

10 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I'd be honored to learn. People on the forums love that word after all.

You seem to think that "uncompromising" mean "we don't change stuff for any reason". Do you need me to help you remember just how many things in DST have changed?

[MondayNight]

14 minutes ago, Dextops said:

i said it won't be an enjoyable experience because of the people and the basic mechanics of pubs. i don't see why you'd ever play a pub over playing with your own friends or alone because pubs are usually very inexperienced, have griefers and usually die before the first year ends. Removing the summer cap wouldn't be niche because as you see people are all arguing with around the same reasoning. Your argument is niche because its only you making those points. And your examples would almost never happen cause first you'd need a pub which can sustain itself and then have people experienced enough to start up moonstorms quickly enough for it to be an annoyance and then have those people leave the server cause if they were able to rush they would be able to finish moonstorms quickly. Your evidence just doesn't make any sense cause the problem fixes itself. problem: people rushing cc and causing moon storms. Solution: those people who would have rushed cc would quickly finish it up because they had the capabilities to rush it so quickly in the first place

I think you're mostly writing about Survival pubs, and for those is certainly true: they don't survive much, pun intended. KLei pubs, these days, on top of being unstable (lagging server when >10 people, prone to crashing), also get wiped off fairly quick, on account of updates (for some reason they don't have a save function on their worlds). But then there are the Endless pubs. And yes, there are rushers on them like bees on honey or flies on... ahem - for some strange reason. At least now, with current Pearl House requirement cap, I know Forest shard is safe for relaxed play for 1st in-game year if I so choose. If cap's removed I'm certain Moon Storms will be on from 1st autumn onward (if you don't believe my rushers assertions - and live in EU - I invite you on DS Turkuye 7/24, Mighty Beard, DST UK, Don't Fight Together 4, etc and see what's the general trend of regulars there). Am either forced to help the chaps finish quicker and take time from my own goals in there (Walter main, Woby - the general carrier, fresh-out-of-gate tool), since almost everyone competent enough to know what an Enlightened Crown is, wants one (even if they then delog forever, citing "Well, now am bored, done everything, killed Fw, killed CC, game's $hit since it doesn't have end goal/progression/very-truly end boss (sic!)/etc, am leaving!" - the irony! Yes, AFw also gets rushed from 1st autumn), endure the randomness of Moon Storms plus Gestalt night pests, or camp Caves (even there, Archives and Lunar Grotto would me made hazardous earlier than usual). Again: one's freedom...

 

 

2 minutes ago, reallychina said:

This is a gross exaggeration. While it is possible, it is highly unlikely and it would take a team of very skilled players to coordinate and activate the lunar event that early. The odds of you running in such a world are next to 0.

 

Last but not least, this is supposed to be an "uncompromising survival game" not farmville.

Not at all. If playing in EU I invite you too on mentioned servers/communities above. Maybe is the regular's level by this point - all of us being around 10k h limit, efficient and whatnot - but is no exaggeration. I can even name you the teams/players doing such runs on EU pubs. If it will be possible, it won't be highly unlikely, but probable (at least in EU's case). Don't forget there are also shenanigans at play, exploits, map revealers and more.

 

2 minutes ago, reallychina said:

The moonstorm nights are great. I keep mine active almost the entire year. It's literally infinite moggles.

Perhaps for you. In general, for most people not sporting a Crown/Bone Helm/being perma-semi/insane, is far from.

 

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

even if they did this also relies on
1. the moonstorm being at spawn
2. every single player who rushed it to leave the moonstorms there

Moonstorm over Spawn Gate is a very "d|ck-move", and happens. Is not solely about that, I have pointed at numerous problems stated by various players in connection to Lunar Storms above, already. And not every single rusher, but most are - either on the "moonstorm nights are great" assumption, or plain trolling - on EU a large percentage of such rushers or regular "moon enjoyers" are a combination of the 2 - "life's not fun without horns".

[BezKa]

1 minute ago, reallychina said:

uncompromising

No, i seem to think it means "Not allowing for compromises". Like plants blooming at a specific time of year and not at any other is not a compromise. 

I'm all about changing things for the better (Beefalos wandering away from you would be considered natural behaviour, but the Bells have been a complete success) but only if it's warranted. 

There is a line to be drawn somewhere on how much of the game can be completed by simply being fast and at what point you create content for a different crowd. In the end, celestial champion is a boss that is oriented towards the long-term world players, who want to stay on one map for a long time before moving on. Even it's drops suggest that. 

There already are solutions for rushers on optimizing for CC, and I feel like changing the game for some niche player base is unneeded. 

In the end, this whole thing is about some minor non-problem. This could be about Antlion being locked behind summer and people would just tell you the same thing. 

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, BezKa said:

There is a line to be drawn somewhere on how much of the game can be completed by simply being fast

ok but why? I don't see a point on where there should be a cap on when you can finally fight a boss other than just why not

[MondayNight]

3 minutes ago, Dextops said:

ok but why? I don't see a point on where there should be a cap on when you can finally fight a boss other than just why not

But there is: 20-days cool-down.

Is about re-playability and game's life I reckon. If everything is delivered HERE & NOW on a plate, there's no need for progression, seasonal content and whatnot. And then people will shelve the game even quicker on account of "no end content, no point in playing past X time", that X time going from seasons and in-game years to 30-50 in-game days - for knowledgeable and experience players, of course. By this logic why you people even want seasonal content anymore? Why not have MacT spawn in Autumn, day 1, have special altars to summon all seasonal bosses too, and so on.

[Dextops]

Just now, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

20-days cool-down.

thats a cool down after you kill the boss for the first time

 

1 minute ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Is about re-playability and game's life I reckon. If everything is delivered HERE & NOW on a plate, there's no need for progression, seasonal content and whatnot. And then people will shelve the game even quicker on account of "no end content, no point in playing past X time", that X time going from seasons and in-game years to 30-50 in-game days - for knowledgeable and experience players, of course. By this logic why you people even want seasonal content anymore? Why not have MacT spawn in Autumn, day 1, have special altars to summon all seasonal bosses too, and so on.

seasonal content is fine i am saying a boss shouldn't have to be locked behind an 8 hour wait gate. instead of making content that is locked to a specific season make it so certain world events change up the world you live in so someone can change it 10 hours in or 1 hour in.

[BezKa]

40 minutes ago, Dextops said:

but why?

I don't have a straight answer to this. 

I took a while to think about it, and it's mostly about rewarding different play styles for me. 

So much in this game rewards you for being fast- ruins rushing is popular for a reason. Everyone wants the good stuff as early as possible. 

It feels damn wrong to me that one boss that is designed for late game (eats tons of armor, has several quests and bosses under it) and was seemingly made to reward players for taking time with the game and not making and discarding worlds left and right, who needs tons of prep and people who most want to kill it (base builders) already spend very long on their worlds so the summer limit doesn't bother them should be "unlocked" from a logical time threshold that wasn't necessarily intended in the first place. 

Perhaps it's selfish, maybe it sounds nonsensical. But for the love of Hesh am I tired of everything being a speed contest. Maybe I want at least a semblance of pacing in the game. Maybe rushers' lack of patience does not warrant a reward of yet another boss up and ready for killing and it's loot. 

In the end, it's all about personal preference and the final decision belongs to Klei. 

If you really must, make a "Cacti spring bloom" mod or something. 

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I don't have a straight answer to this. 

I took a while to think about it, and it's mostly about rewarding different play styles for me. 

So much in this game rewards you for being fast- ruins rushing is popular for a reason. Everyone wants the good stuff as early as possible. 

It feels damn wrong to me that one boss that is designed for late game (eats tons of armor, has several quests and bosses under it) and was seemingly made to reward players for taking time with the game and not making and discarding worlds left and right, who needs tons of prep and people who most want to kill it the most (base builders) already spend very long on their worlds so the summer limit doesn't bother them should be "unlocked" from a logical time threshold that wasn't necessarily intended in the first place. 

Perhaps it's selfish, maybe it sounds nonsensical. But for the love of Hesh am I tired of everything being a speed contest. Maybe I want at least a semblance of pacing in the game. Maybe rushers' lack of patience does not warrant a reward of yet another boss up and ready for killing and it's loot. 

In the end, it's all about personal preference and the final decision belongs to Klei. 

If you really must, make a "Cacti spring bloom" mod or something. 

but then this isn't really rewarding you for going slow. If you got everything done early but you want moon storms well sucks to be you i guess time to wait 8 hours. Which is why i suggested the world to change based on certain aspects you do, like i wish killing cc had more of a lasting impact on your world which would be nice seeing as you can do it whenever you want, since you choose when that content enters your world, not the game.

[BezKa]

3 minutes ago, Dextops said:

8 hours

Stop pretending it's 8 hours. Nobody plays that fast. And if they do, I hope they get help. 

It's not about rewarding you being slow, it's about rewarding you for willing to stick with a world for a while. Long term goals, yadda yadda. 

[Notecja]

While I like long terms worlds/quests just anything to do past 300 days, I just dislike summer part. Tho I prefer to have more content achievable in late game, but maybe not depending on seasons itself...

[Guille6785]

2 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Stop pretending it's 8 hours. Nobody plays that fast. And if they do, I hope they get help. 

what eggy rock does to a community

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Stop pretending it's 8 hours. Nobody plays that fast. And if they do, I hope they get help. 

it's called a hyperbole "exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally."

 

2 minutes ago, BezKa said:

It's not about rewarding you being slow, it's about rewarding you for willing to stick with a world for a while. Long term goals, yadda yadda.

but it isn't when all that is there to reward you in the end is waiting

[MondayNight]

9 minutes ago, Dextops said:

thats a cool down after you kill the boss for the first time

Point being: there's a time-gated limit. And it's ok to be in place, in many forms. Like Full Lunar event on Moon Stone, Glommer spawning on full Moons too, Suspicious Marble Statues usually broken on Full Moons, New Moons and Shadow Pieces, organic research for Atrium via Tentapillars and Atrium navigation (not counting exploits), etc. Time limits. Most people don't complain since there are days-long, and not seasons-long. And/or not too important in general.

 

15 minutes ago, Dextops said:

seasonal content is fine i am saying a boss shouldn't have to be locked behind an 8 hour wait gate. instead of making content that is locked to a specific season make it so certain world events change up the world you live in so someone can change it 10 hours in or 1 hour in.

Then look at CC like a seasonal content, if you may. Also I don't understand why some people have such apparent aversion regarding playing game for X amount of time, more-so since I assume most forumers have thousands of play-time hours irl - I reckon you played game for so long because is a pleasure doing so, and not counting by the hour, with frustration, on clock until you do certain actions you want to get over with as quickly as possible. You can even do said actions via multiple sessions, so I don't get this need to rush "ultimate bosses" - convenience? Then what about your underlined "uncompromising survival"? Time can be regarded as an "uncompromising asset" with all the scarcity it implies. "Bragging rights"? Is a Sandbox, most audience doesn't care you did a certain boss run in a certain amount of time. You can spend those "8 hours" (for your personal health hope they aren't done over 1 single game-session) doing something else if you already prepared steps for CC. That's the game philosophy related to "ultimate bosses" - time requirements via intervals. And I for one think is ok, reasonable from a Survival Sandbox that can be played over unlimited separate sessions. Since, at opposite end, would mean "shelf-life" for DST could be even further reduced if seasonal/time-limit content is removed.

[Dextops]

Just now, Notecja said:

While I like long terms worlds/quests just anything to fo past 300 days, I just dislike summer part. Tho I prefer to have more content achievable in late game, but maybe not depending on seasons itself...

i'd really like stepping stones just as celestial champion and fuelweaver do it i just wish they weren't held back by a season. Having to complete a certain criteria to do something is extremely cool and i wanna see klei do more of it but let those criterias be achievable at the beginning

Just now, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Then look at CC like a seasonal content,

no, not in one million years. just because a single task for a single quest for a item for a single boss is needed to kill cc which holds back the entire thing doesn't make it seasonal content

 

2 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

You can spend those "8 hours" (for your personal health hope they aren't done over 1 single game-session) doing something else if you already prepared steps for CC. That's the game philosophy related to "ultimate bosses" - time requirements via intervals. And I for one think is ok, reasonable from a Survival Sandbox that can be played over unlimited separate sessions. Since, at opposite end, would mean "shelf-life" for DST could be even further reduced if seasonal/time-limit content is removed.

but i don't see why it should be like this other than "it's the final boss" which doesn't make sense since it's such a small thing holding everything back from completing it earlier than more than 8 hours cause you still have to do the wagstaff quest

[MondayNight]

14 hours ago, Dextops said:

no, not in one million years. just because a single task for a single quest for a item for a single boss is needed to kill cc which holds back the entire thing doesn't make it seasonal content

but i don't see why it should be like this other than "it's the final boss" which doesn't make sense since it's such a small thing holding everything back from completing it earlier than more than 8 hours cause you still have to do the wagstaff quest

Here's a somewhat logical compromise (I wouldn't like it still, on my principles listed above, but in the spirit of dialogue, is valid): KLei could add the ability to use, let's say Growth Formula on individual Cactus to make it bloom outside season. A simple, neat action that wouldn't imply modifying Pearl Quests, yet will also require player input (knowledge and experience) to obtain Formula and bloom Cacti, and speed up CC process.

[BezKa]

17 minutes ago, Dextops said:

Snip

You receive an eye roll for the entire response. I don't have anything more to add. 

[Waynel]

Maybe the Don’t Starve franchise is simply reaching an identity crisis, where the sandbox game is turning to sth that resembles the og ds adventure mode since in 2022 we consider killing all the raid bosses as part of “completing the game” and not as “surviving/fending off a threat”, which makes sense btw.

Originally the only bosses you had were the treeguard, the spider queen and the Deerclops (ik sq wasn’t in the initial release but she was added a few months later along with winter so on the long scale of ds franchise development the queen joined the adventure pretty early on).
Later, a new season was added to affect your survival ability in a drastic way. Freezing was there to bury careless survivors six feet under in a most unexpected and brutal fashion.
Deerclops was the ultimate grim reaper, he was supposed to end your game: deerclops comes, destroys the base, kills you, you get spawnkilled as you revive through the meat effigy, and touchstone is no good because of the weather, so game over, perma death
; surviving this boss was an actual feat.

The same concept still applied at the time of RoG's development, the new bosses that were added were seasonal bosses that were visiting your base to end your survival (see ? it was still focused on “uncompromising survival” and different seasons meant different threats unleashed at you in the form of bosses, among others).

Brief aside here, that’s why RoG dragonfly “is more dangerous” than the dst one (for a beginner/intermediate player), not because he’s harder to kill than his dst counterpart but because he’s moving to your base and proceeds to destroy it and kill you (at least theoretically).

 

But when dst was being developed the devs decided to make the dfly stationary and have her present in the magma spot year-round, which had a significant impact on the game :
1. dragonfly is harmless as long as you don’t trespass on private property
2. It’s available for kill from the moment u spawn, at any season
3. but she's also far stronger (10x more hp, spawns deadly minions when wounded) which implies LOT OF PREP both in time and resources (at least on paper)

So the new boss posed no threat for your survival as she’s nomore into popping out of nowhere at a random moment in summer to visit your base and incinerate everything.
You come to df, df doesn’t come to you; the game started taking a new shape; altho being a less iconic example, Moose Goose was also made stationary just like the new df but it was kept seasonal and with a relatively low hp bar.

And the devs carried on: they implemented dst caves, ruins, before coming up with a new storyline (ANR) which gave us new stationary bosses (some seasonal, others not): toadstool, bee queen, klaus, antlion, fw.

 

Bosses started serving the role of “optional content” that could only be tackled if you invested a lot of time and resources into it (at least in theory)  rather than being “seasonal threats to survival”.

 

In parallel with more endgame content being added to the game and the franchise expanding, the optimization of strats and proliferation of guides took place; for instance, I remember that when RoG was released, the few people on yt who would make guides on how to deal with df were almost exclusively showcasing the panflute and gunpowder/big foot strat because they were apparently scared (ig?) of meleeing df, eventho armor absorption stacks in ds which makes it really cheap and easy.

Compare it to searching for a dst boss guide today: yt will feature a whole range of super optimized methods, be it melee or not, for any boss/raid boss (even for annoying bosses like ck, just type “crab king guide” on yt and look at the plethora of methods showing up).

 

In 2022, Deerclops is just a burlier pigman that conveniently delivers the eyebrella for an easy spring, not the terrifying one-eyed gigantic deer that’s almost guaranteed to end your game on a cold winter night.

 

And certain mechanics were added in dst that made survival much easier and thus contributed to Don’t Starve's deviation from a mix of open world and survival genres to just open world genre.
e.g. What’s the easy solution for winter in dst ? Light a tree on fire, drop your thermal stone to let it heat up again. There you have it, problem solved !
; whereas in ds you need to find alternative strats because of specific mechanics (mainly, how fire spreads and how the thermal stone works).

 

Dst is hitting a grey area: is it still about “survival”, where you truly focus on surviving while getting a nice base/steady source of goodies essential for lasting survival and preparing to fend off threats (seasonal or not) and eventually taking on supposed endgame content (raid bosses)
, or is it more of a “campaign” where you have specific goals/levels/quests, where timegates behind bosses are nothing more than a nuisance (new moon for fw, full moon and cac flowers for cc, winter for klaus, etc.).

 

This game is having an existential crisis imo.

 

(I also believe that Hamlet is the closest one to hit the expectations of the true spirit of the franchise: you are forced to move to certain islands to acquire certain items which will allow you to survive in the long term, whereas in dst you don’t have to go to the most dangerous area of the game (ruins) to secure survival (heck you don’t even have to visit the ruins if you want to kill raid bosses, except fw and cc ofc))

 

 

[Dextops]

3 hours ago, BezKa said:

You receive an eye roll for the entire response. I don't have anything more to add. 

I am extremely confused at what you mean and what you're eyerolling 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 hours ago, reallychina said:

This is a gross exaggeration. While it is possible, it is highly unlikely and it would take a team of very skilled players to coordinate and activate the lunar event that early. The odds of you running in such a world are next to 0.

 

Even in the very unlikely situation where this would happen, this is supposed to be an "uncompromising survival game" not farmville.

I didn't post such a thing.

then start in summer(?) isn't farmville, why do you want to rush it with an easy autumn start?

[Bumber64]

I like the way it works and have a strong opinion that it should stay the same, even though changing it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

Much like the Terrarium.

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

I know this is an older thread, but can someone explain why everyone assumes that the only solution is to make cactus flowers obtainable in another way? What about making Pearl not require her house to be built if she already has enough points from other tasks? Or even just make it so that the house doesn't require flowers? I support the idea of not making Pearl season-locked because I often am busy elsewhere during summer, and coupled with my short attention span, I often miss the relatively short window to gather the cactus flowers and haul them all the way to Pearl that is required for me to even think of fighting the Celestial Champion. And of course, missing this window requires me to wait an entire year to try again...

 

That's the problem! Not for "rushing" or speedrunning, it's just really annoying!

[reallychina]

22 minutes ago, Left 4 Sharkbai said:

I know this is an older thread, but can someone explain why everyone assumes that the only solution is to make cactus flowers obtainable in another way? What about making Pearl not require her house to be built if she already has enough points from other tasks? Or even just make it so that the house doesn't require flowers? I support the idea of not making Pearl season-locked because I often am busy elsewhere during summer, and coupled with my short attention span, I often miss the relatively short window to gather the cactus flowers and haul them all the way to Pearl that is required for me to even think of fighting the Celestial Champion. And of course, missing this window requires me to wait an entire year to try again...

 

That's the problem! Not for "rushing" or speedrunning, it's just really annoying!

i found it weird so many people fixated on cactus flowers when the point was not to require them at all but something else (even if expensive)

 

yes, forgetting the flowers can also be very annoying