[Suggestion] Charred Loot

[Well-met]

Hello

please please get rid of the mechanic where non-food items turn into ash when a burning mob is killed. Nobody enjoys this mechanic and it greatly hampers the viability of the scale mail or indeed any attempt to use fire as DoT. This is a feature nobody has ever liked since day one, similar to the old plant disease.

Meat and such can remain cooked, that's fair.

[Hornete]

If we wanna go further, an idea that I've always liked and had for a long while now is instead of burnable items dropping as ash, they could drop still on fire(perhaps with half the burn time), giving you the chance to save them with watering cans, watering balloons and etc!

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, Hornete said:

If we wanna go further, an idea that I've always liked and had for a long while now is instead of burnable items dropping as ash, they could drop still on fire(perhaps with half the burn time), giving you the chance to save them with watering cans, watering balloons and etc!

That's a decent compromise though i'd still rather want it gone entirely. I killed Spazmastism this morning a few seconds after he hit my scalemail and I really don't think gears and wires and gems should turn into ash wtf 

[-Variant]

This is something I really liked that was done in Uncomp.
When something on fire died, instead of its loot being turned to ash, it would drop and still be on fire. Which allowed for some quick thinking and rewarding the player for being able to save the loot! Plus stuff like gears wouldn't turn to ash either!
This is something I'd love to see in the main game, its super unique and rewards quick thinking and always being prepared when dealing with fire, as you rightfully should be!

[Hornete]

5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

That's a decent compromise though i'd still rather want it gone entirely. I killed Spazmastism this morning a few seconds after he hit my scalemail and I really don't think gears and wires and gems should turn into ash wtf 

Aah no, I meant both ideas. Non burnable items cant burn at all, and burnable items drop on fire.

[Well-met]

3 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Aah no, I meant both ideas. Non burnable items cant burn at all, and burnable items drop on fire.

good good

[ArubaroBeefalo]

non burneable items shouldnt burn and food at most should drop their cooked version

[Mike23Ua]

Considering the uncompromising part of the game.. I wouldn’t want things to be “too easy” so I like the idea of on fire, but salvageable.

But then again.. I also would laugh every time the Deerclops eye would end up eaten by something before I could get to it.

Uncompromising game is meant to be Uncompromising.

That said: SOME Things that were too uncompromising were too OP and needed nerf: Such as Wendy players on Xbox One being able to carelessly throw Abigail’s follower into a firepit as a fuel source when she stood too close to it trying to control Abigail.. which luckily was patched so you can’t do anymore.

However.. if you get gears hot enough in real life- They’ll eventually melt, same with most everything else.. and I think that’s the design philosophy here. Still though- I wouldn’t say no to giving Watering Can/Water Balloons/Ice Staffs or even the Weather Pain more uses Why? Because strong winds should totally be able to put out fires..

Hasnt anyone ever watched a Superman Cartoon?

[Well-met]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Considering the uncompromising part of the game.. I wouldn’t want things to be “too easy” so I like the idea of on fire, but salvageable.

But then again.. I also would laugh every time the Deerclops eye would end up eaten by something before I could get to it.

Uncompromising game is meant to be Uncompromising.

That said: SOME Things that were too uncompromising were too OP and needed nerf: Such as Wendy players on Xbox One being able to carelessly throw Abigail’s follower into a firepit as a fuel source when she stood too close to it trying to control Abigail.. which luckily was patched so you can’t do anymore.

However.. if you get gears hot enough in real life- They’ll eventually melt, same with most everything else.. and I think that’s the design philosophy here. Still though- I wouldn’t say no to giving Watering Can/Water Balloons/Ice Staffs or even the Weather Pain more uses Why? Because strong winds should totally be able to put out fires..

Hasnt anyone ever watched a Superman Cartoon?

a mob being set on fire does not make the encounter any easier to the point it justifies cancelling the loot. If anything it already punishes you by burning nature down and overheating you. 

The ""uncompromising"" comparison you're looking for is this makes wearing a scale mail more dangerous than a grass suit which makes no sense regardless.

[-Nick-]

28 minutes ago, -Variant said:

This is something I really liked that was done in Uncomp.
When something on fire died, instead of its loot being turned to ash, it would drop and still be on fire. Which allowed for some quick thinking and rewarding the player for being able to save the loot! Plus stuff like gears wouldn't turn to ash either!
This is something I'd love to see in the main game, its super unique and rewards quick thinking and always being prepared when dealing with fire, as you rightfully should be!

Definitely makes water balloons more useful

[ShadowDuelist]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:44 PM, Hornete said:

I meant both ideas. Non burnable items cant burn at all, and burnable items drop on fire.

I actually really like this idea.

However, from a gameplay perspective, won't this change ALL battles meta to always use fire? It would be a permanent and almost free DOT, which also includes most mobs to panic permanently, which in some cases could even resolve battles by itself. Adding a huge chunk of damage, that easy for everyone to use and with really low risks, would be hard to overlook.

What I mean is, there should be some kind of "con" to this other than just carrying a water balloon or a watering can, which are two dirt cheap items and not really that hard to use.
 

Spoiler

If it was up to me I'd add this as a perk unique to Willow: If non Willows are around a mob that burns to death, only non burnables will pop from it (and cooked meat). if a Willow is within X range from the mob that died by fire, burnables will pop on fire and give you a chance to put them out.

This would essentially reward the pyromaniac to use fire on battles, while also punish in some way, everyone else, so not all battles become a firefest.

 

[Well-met]

21 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I actually really like this idea.

However, from a gameplay perspective, won't this change ALL battles meta to always use fire? I mean it would be a permanent and almost free DOT, which also includes most mobs to panic permanently, which in some cases could even resolve battles on itself. Adding a huge chunk of damage that easy for everyone to use and with really low risks, would be hard to overlook.

What I mean is, there should be some kind of "con" to this other than just carrying a water baloon or a watering can, which are two dirt cheap items and not really that hard to use.

The cons are it burns the surrounding foliage/trees/whatnot, possibly cause overheat and also hurt the players if too close I think

"huge chunk of damage" is probably an overstatement, don't really see how 8DPS can make a significant difference on foes with thousands over thousands hp.

if the firestaff becomes meta then so be it. It deserves it.

 

[maradyne]

18 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

However, from a gameplay perspective, won't this change ALL battles meta to always use fire?

...I personally wouldn't consider this a concern.
Players already have the option of treating all battles as a fire-fest; they just have to remember to stop the fire right before the mob's health runs out.
Which...is a risk, but it's one that feels more like being punished for not knowing exact numbers than for really making a mistake.
You can burn a mob to death...but only if their hitpoints are more than 1 by the end!

Meh.

[ShadowDuelist]

19 minutes ago, Well-met said:

"huge chunk of damage" is probably an overstatement, don't really see how 8DPS can make a significant difference on foes with thousands over thousands hp.

I think it is a lot of damage since it adds up: fire is constant and it will keep dealing damage to the mob while you kite, or chop mushtress or whatever. Most non-bosses also panic, making them easier to kill since their AI basically dies.

17 minutes ago, maradyne said:

...I personally wouldn't consider this a concern.
Players already have the option of treating all battles as a fire-fest; they just have to remember to stop the fire right before the mob's health runs out.
Which...is a risk, but it's one that feels more like being punished for not knowing exact numbers than for really making a mistake.
You can burn a mob to death...but only if their hitpoints are more than 1 by the end!

Well, yeah its a valid point, but unless you have some mod that shows the exact HP of enemies this is the main reason most people don't risk using fire during fights, or at least not through the final stages of a battles, out of fear of losing all the loot. And that is the main con of fire, really.

Don't get me wrong, I really like these ideas, specially when you burn a clockwork, to buy some time and deal with other mobs, it accidentally dies and you lose unburnables like a GEAR, or a GEM or a nightmare fuel (?? its really annoying and unfair tbh.
But I believe it would have to be tested out, see how it goes, I think most players here with some experience at the game (and I'm not talking pros or streamers that play DST 9 hours a day every day, I mean just about most of us here at the forums on whatever skill level one considers to be at) will use fire all the time to kill everything (since it will put all mobs AI to rest) and have little to no bad consequences. 

With cons removed, as long as you know not to do it near your base or not die by fire damage yourself by getting to close to the mob, you can do it, and those are really not that hard things to learn.
 

19 minutes ago, Well-met said:

if the firestaff becomes meta then so be it. It deserves it.

I strongly support this. Not sure if this is the way, but in some way it should.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, Well-met said:

The cons are it burns the surrounding foliage/trees/whatnot, possibly cause overheat and also hurt the players if too close I think

yes it damage the player which already, imo, is a good con making the player pay extra attention while kitting to dont get fire damage which can drop the hp quickly

i love using fire staff, 80 damage per use on bosses, but for some bosses is a pain because you lose non renewables like light bulbs in AG & toadstool arenas or limits the decorations in arround BQ which i guess is fine but you need to stop using them in the last phase because of what OP pointed

also fire deals very little damage to non bosses mobs for some reason, maybe because they panic

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Most non-bosses also panic, making them easier to kill since their AI basically dies.

well, there is as much chance to be detrimental too, if they panic in the direction away from you they will dodge your attacks and might cool off and bite back immediately.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I think it is a lot of damage since it adds up: fire is constant and it will keep dealing damage to the mob while you kite, or chop mushtress or whatever. Most non-bosses also panic, making them easier to kill since their AI basically dies

is "only" 80 damage on bosses, nothing crazy taking in count all the destruction and the potential damage you will take. Is the only non grindy good range weapon avaraible

for mobs the damage is ridiculous and can be achieve with a torch (unless they changed the chances of burning mobs which i cant remember)

[ShadowDuelist]

Yeah, I suppose it would be okay to implement these on a beta, see how much can people abuse it (or not) and then we can probably decide.

Maybe its not so unbalanced, but I just want the concern to be brought up.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Well-met said:

well, there is as much chance to be detrimental too, if they panic in the direction away from you they will dodge your attacks and might cool off and bite back immediately.

this, is more chaotic. Sometimes helps but others just mess things while everything is setting on fire

against hounds would be useful if wanst because rip berry bushes and other fancy plants

1 minute ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Yeah, I suppose it would be okay to implement these on a beta, see how much can people abuse it (or not) and then we can probably decide.

Maybe its not so unbalanced, but I just want the concern to be brought up.

try it agaisnt BQ and see how little unbalance there is, it just helps on adding dps

there are volt goat jelly, catapults, x2 damage characters,etc fire staff is just a joke compared to them

[Cheggf]

If fire is to become risk free (not fighting near important burnables is not really much of a risk) I would want panic to be looked at since it's currently extremely powerful. But I wouldn't want panic looked at since it's an important part of safe ruins gameplay.

I think it's weird how fire burns nonflammables but it's to balance out how strong panic is. Even right now with fire the way it is it's frequently used in the ruins and during certain boss fights like bee queen and toadstool. The issue with scale mail is more an issue with scale mail than an issue with fire. It burning things without your consent makes it very difficult to use outside of certain niche situations like against bee queen.

Not 100% against the idea but I'm not feeling it.

[Well-met]

I never tried torching toadstool himself. what does it do?

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Well-met said:

I never tried torching toadstool himself. what does it do?

Damage. It may not seem like much but it adds up over the fight. More players and more damage modifiers make it relatively less attractive since fire's damage would start to really pale in comparison but it can save a good bit of time, especially in a solo fight. 

Fire is probably more useful against BQ and Bishops but it's definitely worth trying on Toad.

[Stonetribe]

I think about this quite a bit. What if items like the fire staff/fire darts/scalemail created a special kind of "weaponized" fire with different properties than the regular kind, those properties being that they don't burn any of the loot when it kills something and maybe more damage than regular fire. And maybe as an added drawback, it would spread a lot more easily and faster than regular fire does. It could be visually distinguished from regular fire by being a deeper shade or red or something. This way it'd be more viable to use a weapon while still needing to be mindful of your surroundings.

[Well-met]

16 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Damage. It may not seem like much but it adds up over the fight. More players and more damage modifiers make it relatively less attractive since fire's damage would start to really pale in comparison but it can save a good bit of time, especially in a solo fight. 

Fire is probably more useful against BQ and Bishops but it's definitely worth trying on Toad.

do clockworks still inexplicably get locked by torch hits? how silly.