I have doubts about Keli's take down of MODS on March 1

[JoeW]

Valve prefers that developers do not take down mods due to "copyright" claims. They have a very specific process for this. It's my understanding that the reason for this is because a DMCA can be part of a legal process that needs to follow deliberate steps. If we were to remove or otherwise engage in a copyright claimed mod, it disrupts that process and could potentially subvert and already established determination. I was asked in person by legal to leave those alone. So - that's what we do. 

In terms of the "paid mods" thing. These mods have existed for a very long time despite being against the rules. Mod makers know this and so do players. We turned a blind eye while we tried to find solutions that would allow them to stick around.

Unfortunately we do not have a better solution at this time. My previous post about this was to warn mod makers that their mod can be removed from the workshop while giving plenty of time to adjust their mods so that doesn't have to happen. 

I want to be really clear here about this. Specifically I mentioned that donations are acceptable. People are allowed to make money. If a mod maker feels like donations are not enough money, then something is wrong there. It's not the best way to make the most money, certainly. But if you want the best way to make more money, you can do that with your own product, not by creating dissatisfied players in our community. 

And for what it's worth. Our mod policy is based on the Minecraft policy from before they were owned by Microsoft. Which largely remains the same today. You can make money, just don't take advantage of our players.

Now, everybody. Please be polite, or let the thread die. This is all getting way too spicy. Thanks. 

[accelerztor203]

3 minutes ago, SomebodyRandom said:

Terraria's workshop is way worse than Don't Starve Together when it comes to republishers, you're really just spreading negativity because you were outraged and overreacted when republishers came for you. Can't solve your problems in anger, you must work with Steam to get it sorted as the Devs of the game are not responsible for dealing with republishers for you.

You can try "tModLoader" instead of "Terraria", it's awesome, or you can try both. In addition, since Keli said that they have the ability to remove mods, why don't I go to the official feedback platform, but a platform that doesn't care about it? Anyway, Keli knows to issue an announcement saying that mods are prohibited from charging or they will be removed from the shelves. What about steam, ha, you Do you know how many times I have responded?

[Terra B Welch]

Imagine being mad over mods with paywalls being removed when the bulk of the playerbase was against it.

While I can agree that copying others mods is scummy without their permission, that is what steam is for.
When I make my own tweaked versions of others mods, I do at least ask if the original modder is okay with it first.

[Falkenpelz]

Good and appropriate move from Klei is what I'm getting from this on a positive side. It's Klei's game, their rules forbid monetising modifications of their game, easy as that. Many people are aware, that modders often do a lot of very hard work, but modders should be aware, that modding a game is a dedicated hobby that won't get you money. If you want to make money with art and coding, make your own game.

Also, joining the "Here before this gets closed"-gang.

[accelerztor203]

33 minutes ago, JoeW said:

Valve prefers that developers do not take down mods due to "copyright" claims. They have a very specific process for this. It's my understanding that the reason for this is because a DMCA can be part of a legal process that needs to follow deliberate steps. If we were to remove or otherwise engage in a copyright claimed mod, it disrupts that process and could potentially subvert and already established determination. I was asked in person by legal to leave those alone. So - that's what we do. 

In terms of the "paid mods" thing. These mods have existed for a very long time despite being against the rules. Mod makers know this and so do players. We turned a blind eye while we tried to find solutions that would allow them to stick around.

Unfortunately we do not have a better solution at this time. My previous post about this was to warn mod makers that their mod can be removed from the workshop while giving plenty of time to adjust their mods so that doesn't have to happen. 

I want to be really clear here about this. Specifically I mentioned that donations are acceptable. People are allowed to make money. If a mod maker feels like donations are not enough money, then something is wrong there. It's not the best way to make the most money, certainly. But if you want the best way to make more money, you can do that with your own product, not by creating dissatisfied players in our community. 

And for what it's worth. Our mod policy is based on the Minecraft policy from before they were owned by Microsoft. Which largely remains the same today. You can make money, just don't take advantage of our players.

Now, everybody. Please be polite, or let the thread die. This is all getting way too spicy. Thanks. 

Hello from the official, IMHO, my next words may be very ugly, and my English is very poor. If the following content is offensive, I hope the official can forgive me a lot. I like it.
I think it's not that you don't have a "solution", it's that you haven't considered it at all, or you can even say, you don't have a "solution" at all. I can say this, because according to your work update speed and output speed, your company may not be huge, and it can be said that there will be no redundant manpower to deal with the relevant regulations. Therefore, you discuss and discuss with the platform or your boss. Feedback, these are simply based on mood. And your previous attitude has always been ambiguous. I admit that some of their team's diplomatic skills are like ****. Your current one-size-fits-all attitude makes me very unhappy. Let's compare other game manufacturers vertically and horizontally. I can only say that your structure is small. .
Do you know how much the so-called "Don't Starve Online Server" earns from "your players"? Your set of skins costs 30 RMB, and I have bought quite a few. But do you know their server, a skin, or the textures of other mods, how much can they sell, 1000+RMB, have you ever cared, you don’t, you don’t think they are important, these jumping beam modders are a thorn in the flesh, a thorn in the flesh .
The following attitudes are extremely bad:
And your reply, I also saw your attitude "Valve prefers that developers do not take down mods due to "copyright" ", "just don't take advantage of our players." "your" "players?", you Do you think you can change the number and upload it, can it be called copyright, do you think you are very high, do you think we stole "your" players, please rest assured, we are returning "your" players to you now, and will not I plan to charge for such messy things. I do mods just because I love this game. I want to share my thoughts and happiness with other players. I'm just a player, and my initial thoughts are also Selling skins to make money through "famine", but if you do it, you will find that you are responsible for your work, you can't make a garbage to give the bad money to the players, at least you have to do it, you Until you feel satisfied, do you think you can just change your appearance and fill in the data, and call it excellent mods? Unfortunately, this kind of garbage is everywhere. The money I have invested in the module to find technicians has far exceeded the donations I have received. My investment is one zero more than the donations I have received. As I said, I am not satisfied! Before reaching the extreme and excellent, how can I have the face to charge. "your players?" Sorry, I was also a member of "your players"
Your attitude determines my actions, this prosperous world, as you wish.
Finally, I wish your company prosperous and prosperous.

官方你好，恕我直言，我的接下来的话可能非常难听，并且我的英文非常不好，以下内容如有冒犯，希望官方能多多包涵，我喜欢吧话挑明白。
我觉得，不是你们没有“解决方案”，而是你们根本没有考虑过，或者甚至可以说，你们根本没有“解决方案”。我可以这么说，因为按照你们工作更新速度以及产出速度来讲，你们公司也许并不庞大，相关条例的处理可以说是根本不会有多余的人手，所以，你们讨论啊以及跟平台或者上司反馈，这些根本就是看心情来的。而你之前的态度，一直就是模棱两可，我承认，他们团队有些人的外交技术简直跟屎一样，你现在一刀切的态度让我非常不爽，纵横对比一下其他游戏厂家吧，只能说你格局小了。
你知道，所谓的“饥荒联机版服务器”从“your players”捞出来多少钱吗，你一套皮肤要30元RMB，我也买过不少。可你知道他们服务器，一个皮肤，还是拿别的mods的贴图，能卖多少吗，1000+RMB，你关心过吗，你并不，你认为他们不重要，这些跳梁的modder才是个眼中钉，肉中刺。
以下态度极其恶劣：
而你的回复，我也看到了你的态度“Valve prefers that developers do not take down mods due to "copyright" ”，“just don't take advantage of our players.”“your”“players？”，你觉得改个数字上传上去，能称之为版权吗，你觉得你自己很高高在上吗，你觉得我们偷走了“你的”玩家，请放心，我们现在把“你的”玩家归还你，并且不会在计划收费这种乱七八糟的的事情了，我做mods，仅仅是因为我热爱这个游戏，我想把我的想法与快乐，分享给其他玩家，我也只是个玩家，我最初的思想也是想通过“饥荒”来卖皮肤赚钱，可你做着做着，你就会发现，你要为你的作品负责，你不能整出来一个垃圾来给要玩家的烂钱，起码你要做到，你自己觉得满意为止，你觉得随便换个外貌脚填个数据，叫优秀mods吗，遗憾的是，这种垃圾遍地都是。我现在在模组中投入的金钱找技术人员，已经远超我收到的捐款，我的投入比我收到的捐款多一个零你知道吗，我为什么还不去赶紧恰点烂钱收费，我说过了，我不满意！没有达到极致和优秀之前，我哪来的脸面去收费。“your players？”抱歉，我曾经也是“your players”的一员
你的态度决定了我的行动，这盛世，如你所愿。
最后祝贵公司兴旺昌盛。

The official can see my questions, and some clowns who jump on the beam, do not

33 minutes ago, Terra B Welch said:

Imagine being mad over mods with paywalls being removed when the bulk of the playerbase was against it.

While I can agree that copying others mods is scummy without their permission, that is what steam is for.
When I make my own tweaked versions of others mods, I do at least ask if the original modder is okay with it first.

ha

28 minutes ago, Falkenpelz said:

Good and appropriate move from Klei is what I'm getting from this on a positive side. It's Klei's game, their rules forbid monetising modifications of their game, easy as that. Many people are aware, that modders often do a lot of very hard work, but modders should be aware, that modding a game is a dedicated hobby that won't get you money. If you want to make money with art and coding, make your own game.

Also, joining the "Here before this gets closed"-gang.

I'm running a server in minecraft now, it's really profitable

47 minutes ago, JoeW said:

Valve prefers that developers do not take down mods due to "copyright" claims. They have a very specific process for this. It's my understanding that the reason for this is because a DMCA can be part of a legal process that needs to follow deliberate steps. If we were to remove or otherwise engage in a copyright claimed mod, it disrupts that process and could potentially subvert and already established determination. I was asked in person by legal to leave those alone. So - that's what we do. 

In terms of the "paid mods" thing. These mods have existed for a very long time despite being against the rules. Mod makers know this and so do players. We turned a blind eye while we tried to find solutions that would allow them to stick around.

Unfortunately we do not have a better solution at this time. My previous post about this was to warn mod makers that their mod can be removed from the workshop while giving plenty of time to adjust their mods so that doesn't have to happen. 

I want to be really clear here about this. Specifically I mentioned that donations are acceptable. People are allowed to make money. If a mod maker feels like donations are not enough money, then something is wrong there. It's not the best way to make the most money, certainly. But if you want the best way to make more money, you can do that with your own product, not by creating dissatisfied players in our community. 

And for what it's worth. Our mod policy is based on the Minecraft policy from before they were owned by Microsoft. Which largely remains the same today. You can make money, just don't take advantage of our players.

Now, everybody. Please be polite, or let the thread die. This is all getting way too spicy. Thanks. 

If modders (except those who open servers) can really make money and support themselves by charging from "your players", I don't think that's possible, it's just a joke with an average of 4000+ "Wendy" players and mods per day The most popular "Nezha" is 120+, I don't know which one can make more money selling skins. My attitude is: the so-called reward is just a representation of the player's recognition of your labor, your design, your style, and your actions, not that I have to rely on players to sell milk and bread, I would have starved to death

[. . .]

I do not want Myth Words to be kill, don't do this Klei 

[JoeW]

36 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

 

I am not going to argue with you over it.

I guess I will put it this way. If you require a substantial profit from your mod making. You should do it somewhere that permits it. 

And for everybody else. We have been in communication with the Myth team for a very long time over this stuff. A long time. They know and have always known that things weren't officially permitted. But that we were leaving it alone, but we asked them not to push it and to only request donations. This isn't a surprise to anybody involved. 

I don't know how many of you are familiar with their work, but their stuff is amazing. I absolutely want them to be able to support themselves. But right now, I don't have a better solution. 

I have spent a great deal of time trying to find another path. I would still like to find another path, but the controversy surrounding the whole situation makes it very difficult. 

[LinknAllie]

Wow!  Making money off of something someone else made is illegal?  Who would've imagined?  I never would've thought it was a possibility!

 

This whole thread is pointless.  Half of what you are saying is meaningless.  This "attitude" towards mods you think is there used to exist, yes.  But now they've purposefully avoided trying to break mods.  You only think they don't like mods because one of your precious mods was removed because it was practically stealing.  You see, in this beautiful system we call capitalism making money off of something someone made is a no-no.  

 

1 hour ago, accelerztor203 said:

Klei steals the player, okay. The player steals the player, okay. Players steal klei's, no.

I'm gonna attempt to decipher this gibberish into something people can understand.

You should probably understand if I put it in this context.  Let's say Klei is a government.  Why would a government intervene when 2 citizens are having a disagreement when they have a country (game) to run (create and update).  Along with all the other civilian (player) debates happening in the country (Workshop)

[JoeW]

12 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

Wow!  Making money off of something someone else made is illegal?  Who would've imagined?  I never would've thought it was a possibility!

 

This whole thread is pointless.  Half of what you are saying is meaningless.  This "attitude" towards mods you think is there used to exist, yes.  But now they've purposefully avoided trying to break mods.  You only think they don't like mods because one of your precious mods was removed because it was practically stealing.  You see, in this beautiful system we call capitalism making money off of something someone made is a no-no.  

 

I'm gonna attempt to decipher this gibberish into something people can understand.

You should probably understand if I put it in this context.  Let's say Klei is a government.  Why would a government intervene when 2 citizens are having a disagreement when they have a country (game) to run (create and update).  Along with all the other civilian (player) debates happening in the country (Workshop)

First - we haven't taken anything down. I put up a warning early February that we may take things down beginning March 1st. 

Second, either be polite, or don't respond. Please. No explanation or discussion is going to help if you're going to be rude. Thanks. 

[. . .]

28 minutes ago, JoeW said:

I don't have a better solution. 

So, a mod with near half a million subscribers is going to be erased from the workshop and probably thousands of people's worlds corrupted just because there's no "better solution"?

Just wow, unbelievable. 

[MondayNight]

3 hours ago, JoeW said:

I don't know how many of you are familiar with their work, but their stuff is amazing. I absolutely want them to be able to support themselves. But right now, I don't have a better solution. 

I have spent a great deal of time trying to find another path. I would still like to find another path, but the controversy surrounding the whole situation makes it very difficult. 

Perhaps some form of partnership? I for one am familiar with their work and, sorry to have to say this in regards to other modders out there that may also be/are on KLei forums, yet Myth mod and its video presentations, plus future plans etc are miles apart from anything existing in Steam's DST Workshop atm. Imo are like a "golden goose", admittedly a scummy one for now - the prospects of Myth team's potential. I reckon KLei also saw this potential and perhaps already tried to make some arrangements, and if so, I urge @accelerztor203 (I presume you're part of Myth dev team) to reconsider such hypothetical offer or be open to proper discussions again. I get you and your team may want sure-profits in consistent manner for your (very fine) work, but you need to respect legal rules of engagement regarding intellectual property and TOSs. Would be a pity if Myth team departed DST modding community.

[accelerztor203]

44 minutes ago, JoeW said:

I am not going to argue with you over it.

I guess I will put it this way. If you require a substantial profit from your mod making. You should do it somewhere that permits it. 

And for everybody else. We have been in communication with the Myth team for a very long time over this stuff. A long time. They know and have always known that things weren't officially permitted. But that we were leaving it alone, but we asked them not to push it and to only request donations. This isn't a surprise to anybody involved. 

I don't know how many of you are familiar with their work, but their stuff is amazing. I absolutely want them to be able to support themselves. But right now, I don't have a better solution. 

I have spent a great deal of time trying to find another path. I would still like to find another path, but the controversy surrounding the whole situation makes it very difficult. 

No, as I said, it's easier to open a server for profit with you, I don't have any violations or want to make a profit. Also, Myth, I don't care, I don't care if the mods charge or not, I'm just a player who charges is none of my business, I just want to play games, I just want to have fun. I only care about the models and special effects I spend time and experience making, the code I spend day and night writing, stolen by others or using my mods for profit. In other words, I made Famine into a mobile version and sold it for money, you know what I mean. I understand that your current attitude is that these things that "I" care about are irrelevant to you.

不，我说了，在你这里盈利开个服务器更简单，我并没有任何违规或者想盈利。而且，Myth我并不关心，我也不在乎模组是否收费，我只是个玩家收费关我屁事，我只想打游戏，我只想要快乐。我只在乎，我花费时间和经历去做的模型和特效，我花费日日夜夜写出来的代码，被别人盗用或用我的模组盈利。也就是说，我把饥荒做成手机版，并拿去卖钱你懂我意思吗。我看明白你现在态度就是，这些“我”在乎的东西，对于你而言无足挂齿。

46 minutes ago, JoeW said:

I am not going to argue with you over it.

I guess I will put it this way. If you require a substantial profit from your mod making. You should do it somewhere that permits it. 

And for everybody else. We have been in communication with the Myth team for a very long time over this stuff. A long time. They know and have always known that things weren't officially permitted. But that we were leaving it alone, but we asked them not to push it and to only request donations. This isn't a surprise to anybody involved. 

I don't know how many of you are familiar with their work, but their stuff is amazing. I absolutely want them to be able to support themselves. But right now, I don't have a better solution. 

I have spent a great deal of time trying to find another path. I would still like to find another path, but the controversy surrounding the whole situation makes it very difficult. 

Now, please tell me clearly why "self-use mods" have not been removed. So much money from servers why don't you care

[Mantispidae]

5 minutes ago, . . . said:

So, a mod with near half a million subscribers is going to be erased from the workshop and probably thousands of people's worlds corrupted just because there's no "better solution"?

Just wow, unbelievable. 

Its a mod that broke clear-cut rules, was warned that it was breaking clear cut rules, and who the team informed that continuing to break those rules could eventually result in more severe penalty. It doesn't matter how many people like the thing- if they're going to be stubborn even when people try to work with them to adjust their systems as to not infringe, they risk being cut. You don't get special treatment just because you made a particularly good product- JoeW has clearly stated that the mod makers are talented and they want them to have means of supporting their work that do not infringe (donations over direct monetization) and they don't want to meet that demand. Sorry, but unless something changes on the modder's side the Klei team is presented with only two options: Either stick to the no-monetization rule or don't follow that rule, which opens up either giving this random popular mod team special treatment or removing the rule entirely and opening up all mods to in-game monetization.

It's not even cut yet. They gave them a date to meet for the clearing of mods that break that rule. Its basically a last strike.

The "better solution" is that the modders remove the infringing aspects from their mods, stick to donation systems or other means of supporting their work, and leave them in the work shop. Myth worlds could be an absolutely trash mod that no ones subscribed to and still be at risk for termination due to it's rule breaking, and being popular doesn't change that. They've been given an inch, and they've chosen to dig their heels in. They ignored the terms of service here and if they pay for it thats ultimately on them, even if it affects other's who enjoyed their work.

[JazzyGames]

16 minutes ago, Mantispidae said:

Myth worlds could be an absolutely trash mod that no ones subscribed to and still be at risk for termination due to it's rule breaking, and being popular doesn't change that.

Big emphasis on this. It has nothing to do with popularity. The onus is not on a developer to make exceptions to their Content Creation Guidelines because a mod in violation of them happens to be heavily subscribed.

[accelerztor203]

40 minutes ago, JoeW said:

First - we haven't taken anything down. I put up a warning early February that we may take things down beginning March 1st. 

Second, either be polite, or don't respond. Please. No explanation or discussion is going to help if you're going to be rude. Thanks. 

tell me ，what is this

42 minutes ago, JoeW said:

First - we haven't taken anything down. I put up a warning early February that we may take things down beginning March 1st. 

Second, either be polite, or don't respond. Please. No explanation or discussion is going to help if you're going to be rude. Thanks. 

tell me ，what is this

43 minutes ago, JoeW said:

First - we haven't taken anything down. I put up a warning early February that we may take things down beginning March 1st. 

Second, either be polite, or don't respond. Please. No explanation or discussion is going to help if you're going to be rude. Thanks. 

tell me! Is this allowed by the community!

59 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

Wow!  Making money off of something someone else made is illegal?  Who would've imagined?  I never would've thought it was a possibility!

 

This whole thread is pointless.  Half of what you are saying is meaningless.  This "attitude" towards mods you think is there used to exist, yes.  But now they've purposefully avoided trying to break mods.  You only think they don't like mods because one of your precious mods was removed because it was practically stealing.  You see, in this beautiful system we call capitalism making money off of something someone made is a no-no.  

 

I'm gonna attempt to decipher this gibberish into something people can understand.

You should probably understand if I put it in this context.  Let's say Klei is a government.  Why would a government intervene when 2 citizens are having a disagreement when they have a country (game) to run (create and update).  Along with all the other civilian (player) debates happening in the country (Workshop)

I'm not breaking the rules, but you tell me what it is

40 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Perhaps some form of partnership? I for one am familiar with their work and, sorry to have to say this in regards to other modders out there that may also be/are on KLei forums, yet their mod and video presentation, plus future plans etc are miles apart anything existing in Steam's DST Workshop atm. Imo are like a "golden goose", admittedly a scummy one for now - the prospects of Myth team's potential. I reckon KLei also saw this potential and perhaps already tried to make some arrangements, and if so, I urge @accelerztor203 (I presume you're part of Myth dev team) to reconsider such hypothetical offer or be open to proper discussions again. I get you and your team may want sure-profits in consistent manner for your (very fine) work, but you need to respect legal rules of engagement regarding intellectual property and TOSs. Would be a pity if Myth team departed from DST modding community.

First of all, I'm not part of a team, I'm just an individual, I'm just a player. Secondly, I just want to protect my due rights and interests, including the current status of this community. Please see for yourself. If our basic rights and interests are not guaranteed, how can we continue to do it? In my opinion, I don’t care at all. But I'll steal your car and sell it for money, will you?

32 minutes ago, Mantispidae said:

Its a mod that broke clear-cut rules, was warned that it was breaking clear cut rules, and who the team informed that continuing to break those rules could eventually result in more severe penalty. It doesn't matter how many people like the thing- if they're going to be stubborn even when people try to work with them to adjust their systems as to not infringe, they risk being cut. You don't get special treatment just because you made a particularly good product- JoeW has clearly stated that the mod makers are talented and they want them to have means of supporting their work that do not infringe (donations over direct monetization) and they don't want to meet that demand. Sorry, but unless something changes on the modder's side the Klei team is presented with only two options: Either stick to the no-monetization rule or don't follow that rule, which opens up either giving this random popular mod team special treatment or removing the rule entirely and opening up all mods to in-game monetization.

It's not even cut yet. They gave them a date to meet for the clearing of mods that break that rule. Its basically a last strike.

The "better solution" is that the modders remove the infringing aspects from their mods, stick to donation systems or other means of supporting their work, and leave them in the work shop. Myth worlds could be an absolutely trash mod that no ones subscribed to and still be at risk for termination due to it's rule breaking, and being popular doesn't change that. They've been given an inch, and they've chosen to dig their heels in. They ignored the terms of service here and if they pay for it thats ultimately on them, even if it affects other's who enjoyed their work.

Please take a look at my reply below, thank you, and see how many "illegal" mods there are. Has Keli ever managed it? Do you think this mod is not rubbish but a delicious pizza, right?

17 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

Big emphasis on this. It has nothing to do with popularity. The onus is not on a developer to make exceptions to their Content Creation Guidelines because a mod in violation of them happens to be heavily subscribed.

Look down, the wonderful is below

[Mantispidae]

15 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

Please take a look at my reply below, thank you, and see how many "illegal" mods there are. Has Keli ever managed it? Do you think this mod is not rubbish but a delicious pizza, right?

I think we are talking about two different issues, likely due to the language barrier. I'm discussing Myth world's monetization which is something that has been a long-term issue with a lot of back and forth and no progress.

Language is complicating this heavily, but as I understand it it seems you are talking less about the monetization of mods and more about mod theft (Referring to the copying of mod code and re-uploading it to the workshop without permission) and are upset that one issue is focused on and the other isn't, right? If this isn't the issue you are trying to discuss please clarify, because I think people might all be discussing different things right now and that's making things confusing.

So, just for clarities sake- you are bothered that while the Klei team has decided to exercise mod take down on monetized mods, they haven't (or don't intend to) exercised takedowns of mods that effectively take previously uploaded mods and reupload them. This is where the issue is for you because you feel that your work can (or has) been stolen?

[accelerztor203]

3 minutes ago, Mantispidae said:

I think we are talking about two different issues, likely due to the language barrier. I'm discussing Myth world's monetization which is something that has been a long-term issue with a lot of back and forth and no progress.

Language is complicating this heavily, but as I understand it it seems you are talking less about the monetization of mods and more about mod theft (Referring to the copying of mod code and re-uploading it to the workshop without permission) and are upset that one issue is focused on and the other isn't, right? If this isn't the issue you are trying to discuss please clarify, because I think people might all be discussing different things right now and that's making things confusing.

So, just for clarities sake- you are bothered that while the Klei team has decided to exercise mod take down on monetized mods, they haven't (or don't intend to) exercised takedowns of mods that effectively take previously uploaded mods and reupload them. This is where the issue is for you because you feel that your work can (or has) been stolen?

I have two questions to discuss. Since Myth is no longer charging, why are other mods still charging? Second, is whether my copyright can be guaranteed. I want a clear attitude, not "looking for a solution"

[BezKa]

You are constantly referring to the fact your mod has been copied, tweaked and re-uploaded, to the point more people subscribe to stolen versions of your mods than your original one. 

You are mad that Klei solved one issue, but ignored the other other.

What JoeW has told you however, is that Valve does not want them to interfere. If Klei had the money, time, resources, if world was perfect and they had unlimited energy, I'm sure they'd love to take down these stolen versions of mods and give due credit to everybody. I know i would. If i could get paid for searching for original mods and then cleaning up the workshop so that every single artist, programmer, gets their due credit, I happily would.

It's not possible at the moment. You have to try to take them down yourself, and there's a chance it won't work, because big corporations are not our friends and people are lazy and rude. But beating up the game studio over this is pointless. This is a Steam issue, not Klei issue. 

You're more than welcome to vent on the forums. But please do not attack anybody.

[accelerztor203]

Just now, BezKa said:

You are constantly referring to the fact your mod has been copied, tweaked and re-uploaded, to the point more people subscribe to stolen versions of your mods than your original one. 

You are mad that Klei solved one issue, but ignored the other other.

What JoeW has told you however, is that Valve does not want them to interfere. If Klei had the money, time, resources, if world was perfect and they had unlimited energy, I'm sure they'd love to take down these stolen versions of mods and give due credit to everybody. I know i would. If i could get paid for searching for original mods and then cleaning up the workshop so that every single artist, programmer, gets their due credit, I happily would.

It's not possible at the moment. You have to try to take them down yourself, and there's a chance it won't work, because big corporations are not our friends and people are lazy and rude. But beating up the game studio over this is pointless. This is a Steam issue, not Klei issue. 

You're more than welcome to vent on the forums. But please do not attack anybody.

Hello, this friend, I often say something, if you respect me, I will respect you. Do not do what you want to others, treat me with respect, and have a good conversation. I have already reasoned and put forward my views. It may be that my language style is relatively straightforward, which is very annoying. I hope you don't care. I just want to know the official stance.

[BezKa]

1 minute ago, accelerztor203 said:

Hello, this friend, I often say something, if you respect me, I will respect you. Do not do what you want to others, treat me with respect, and have a good conversation. I have already reasoned and put forward my views. It may be that my language style is relatively straightforward, which is very annoying. I hope you don't care. I just want to know the official stance.

The language barrier is certainly not helping us. But i want you to know that the translation, whether because of Google or just how difficult it is to communicate through text, sounds very aggressive at times, especially when referring to other users. 

We haven't exactly been nice in return, so sorry about that. 

I'm not sure I can help you with everything you want to know, but if you can try to ask the questions again, we can try answering and hopefully the translation will somehow keep the meaning intact. 

For now, here's what we know that might be important:

Klei is not against mods. They heavily support modders and love seeing their game being expanded on.

Games that contain pay-walls have been deemed to violate the rules Klei put forward. A solution that would let modders earn money from the mod without making it a pay wall was searched for, but haven't been found. The only thing mod authors can do is ask for donations, which will often not be enough. 

March 1st is not an extermination date. It is the dead line for modders to either remove the pay walls, or risk being removed from the steam workshop from the day onward. Klei did not gather all the illegal mods and wait until March 1st to delete them all at once. 

If you think something might be lost through the translator, please let me know, maybe phrasing i differently could work. 

[accelerztor203]

5 minutes ago, BezKa said:

The language barrier is certainly not helping us. But i want you to know that the translation, whether because of Google or just how difficult it is to communicate through text, sounds very aggressive at times, especially when referring to other users. 

We haven't exactly been nice in return, so sorry about that. 

I'm not sure I can help you with everything you want to know, but if you can try to ask the questions again, we can try answering and hopefully the translation will somehow keep the meaning intact. 

For now, here's what we know that might be important:

Klei is not against mods. They heavily support modders and love seeing their game being expanded on.

Games that contain pay-walls have been deemed to violate the rules Klei put forward. A solution that would let modders earn money from the mod without making it a pay wall was searched for, but haven't been found. The only thing mod authors can do is ask for donations, which will often not be enough. 

March 1st is not an extermination date. It is the dead line for modders to either remove the pay walls, or risk being removed from the steam workshop from the day onward. Klei did not gather all the illegal mods and wait until March 1st to delete them all at once. 

If you think something might be lost through the translator, please let me know, maybe phrasing i differently could work. 

You can take a look at the picture above, it is March 2nd, Mthy is no longer charging, why are there other modules charging, did Keli choose to ignore it, why did Kray not remove those charging modules or ask for rectification Well, my doubts about charging are here. If necessary, I can separate two posts to express my two opinions, haha.

[Pinkamena11FazP]

We should just all be glad they even ALLOW us to make mods on the workshop.

Also this whole form in a nutshell: 

Spoiler

 

 

[BezKa]

7 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

You can take a look at the picture above, it is March 2nd, Mthy is no longer charging, why are there other modules charging, did Keli choose to ignore it, why did Kray not remove those charging modules or ask for rectification Well, my doubts about charging are here. If necessary, I can separate two posts to express my two opinions, haha.

This is because Klei did not first gather the mods to remove, then announce March 1st removal date, but the other way around. 

That means, that only now will they look out for mods that charge money, and remove them after the updated policy. 

As you pointed out, Myth worlds is still up after removing their pay walls, but the other mods haven't- Klei will remove those mods in the future, now that the dead line is behind us. 

We are currently during an beta for a very big update- everyone is super busy, so we need to be patient with other issues at the moment. The illegal mods will be removed, unless they delete the pay-walls. 

Time is our only answer, and if you wish to see them gone sooner, reporting them in some way might be the solution.

[Mantispidae]

12 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

I have two questions to discuss. Since Myth is no longer charging, why are other mods still charging? Second, is whether my copyright can be guaranteed. I want a clear attitude, not "looking for a solution"

Well, I can't answer these for you in any satisfying way, because I'm just a person on the forum. But what i can say is this

1) All monetization in mods is considered illegal, but not necessarily easily detected and dealt with. Myth Worlds being large and popular does put it in a place of higher scrutiny, as being large increases the chance of illegal activity (monetization) being detected and also raises the priority in getting it sorted out. Smaller mods or mods that go unreported but still have such illegal content can slip under the cover, or take more time to get to, especially if Klei does not want to heavily invest in investigating mods for infractions or removing content where the mod makers can be talked to and adjust their work to fit in the guidelines. (Basically, Klei doesn't like to simply cut these mods off, and likely in case of infractions very much prefers if mod makers will simply make the adjustments.) These can take time and be complicated, and also likely aren't a huge focus. It doesn't mean that things are being ignored, but might not be on their radar or high priority, even if they would like to fix them right away- its unreasonable to catch all rule breakers everywhere, especially with things like mods. 

2) Guaranteeing your own work's copyright (as a work derivative from DS) This one... is complicated. While the work you make for DS (such as mods) is very much your own work and deserves respect as that, it can be complicated by the nature of what it is (mod work) this makes the systems that protect it a little harder to actually work within, especially on places like the workshop + other mod collections.

With that said, while Klei is connected to the mod workshop by means of it being attached to their game and exercise some control of it, management of the modding scene for games is generally fairly hands-off for the devs and not something they generally do- for any game. The reason why monetized content gets flagged here is due to the specific kind of rules it breaks (one that directly effects the IP, as opposed to say, a mod that includes hateful/illegal content). That's probably what JoeW meant by "Valve asked us not to touch this", He's saying that the steam workshop is something Klei isn't really supposed to be trying to moderate and control. So you're asking the wrong person- you need to be asking the actual host of that content, which would be steam.

If you are trying to protect your work, which was uploaded to the steam workshop, and is being reproduced on the steam workshop- you want to contact steam, not Klei, for that. I don't know how receptive steam is to that, but they do have systems for reporting that you should use:

https://steamcommunity.com/dmca/create/

^ This is the steam DMCA page. It's a bit of legal jargon, but this is what you use to report uploads and and recreations of work. You might need to find someone who explains how the process works if you are unfamiliar, and don't think I can do that properly given the language barrier. Similar systems are used to manage things like fanart theft.

However- Do make sure you contact the individuals first and request takedowns. Sometimes you get lucky and people will simply remove them, and save everyone the headache.

[accelerztor203]

2 minutes ago, BezKa said:

This is because Klei did not first gather the mods to remove, then announce March 1st removal date, but the other way around. 

That means, that only now will they look out for mods that charge money, and remove them after the updated policy. 

As you pointed out, Myth worlds is still up after removing their pay walls, but the other mods aren't- Klei will remove those mods in the future, now that the dead line is behind us. 

We are currently during an beta for a very big update- everyone is super busy, so we need to be patient with other issues at the moment. The illegal mods will be removed, unless they delete the pay-walls. 

Time is our only answer, and if you wish to see them gone sooner, reporting them in some way might be the solution.

I will come every week to see if any illegal mods have been removed. If not, then the charging is currently acquiesced. I believe many people will still be willing to pay for it. If there is, then I will support keli for the community. environment contributes