I have doubts about Keli's take down of MODS on March 1

[BezKa]

4 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

I will come every week to see if any illegal mods have been removed. If not, then the charging is currently acquiesced. I believe many people will still be willing to pay for it. If there is, then I will support keli for the community. environment contributes

As you wish. 

Is there anything else we can help you with? 

[accelerztor203]

5 minutes ago, Mantispidae said:

Well, I can't answer these for you in any satisfying way, because I'm just a person on the forum. But what i can say is this

1) All monetization in mods is considered illegal, but not necessarily easily detected and dealt with. Myth Worlds being large and popular does put it in a place of higher scrutiny, as being large increases the chance of illegal activity (monetization) being detected and also raises the priority in getting it sorted out. Smaller mods or mods that go unreported but still have such illegal content can slip under the cover, or take more time to get to, especially if Klei does not want to heavily invest in investigating mods for infractions or removing content where the mod makers can be talked to and adjust their work to fit in the guidelines. (Basically, Klei doesn't like to simply cut these mods off, and likely in case of infractions very much prefers if mod makers will simply make the adjustments.) These can take time and be complicated, and also likely aren't a huge focus. It doesn't mean that things are being ignored, but might not be on their radar or high priority, even if they would like to fix them right away- its unreasonable to catch all rule breakers everywhere, especially with things like mods. 

2) Guaranteeing your own work's copyright (as a work derivative from DS) This one... is complicated. While the work you make for DS (such as mods) is very much your own work and deserves respect as that, it can be complicated by the nature of what it is (mod work) this makes the systems that protect it a little harder to actually work within, especially on places like the workshop + other mod collections.

With that said, while Klei is connected to the mod workshop by means of it being attached to their game and exercise some control of it, management of the modding scene for games is generally fairly hands-off for the devs and not something they generally do- for any game. The reason why monetized content gets flagged here is due to the specific kind of rules it breaks (one that directly effects the IP, as opposed to say, a mod that includes hateful/illegal content). That's probably what JoeW meant by "Valve asked us not to touch this", He's saying that the steam workshop is something Klei isn't really supposed to be trying to moderate and control. So you're asking the wrong person- you need to be asking the actual host of that content, which would be steam.

If you are trying to protect your work, which was uploaded to the steam workshop, and is being reproduced on the steam workshop- you want to contact steam, not Klei, for that. I don't know how receptive steam is to that, but they do have systems for reporting that you should use:

https://steamcommunity.com/dmca/create/

^ This is the steam DMCA page. It's a bit of legal jargon, but this is what you use to report uploads and and recreations of work. You might need to find someone who explains how the process works if you are unfamiliar, and don't think I can do that properly given the language barrier. Similar systems are used to manage things like fanart theft.

However- Do make sure you contact the individuals first and request takedowns. Sometimes you get lucky and people will simply remove them, and save everyone the headache.

Yeah, each of us is just a person on the forum, I'm waiting for the official statement now
1) Procrastination is not a solution. If there is no clear action, I believe this phenomenon will be very common (to put it bluntly, it is too lazy to do it in my opinion)
2) If my rights are not guaranteed, it is too simple, I will immediately enjoy the things I have been coveting in other mods, no one can stop me
If you say that steam does not want Keli to participate, and Keli has no ability to participate, I will find a way to quickly charge and then circle the cost and run away
But please don't worry, steam won't take care of it, because I have reported it many times (laughs)

1 minute ago, BezKa said:

As you wish. 

Is there anything else we can help you with? 

Aha, I'm happy as long as someone notices me and joins the discussion, I'm just waiting for the official attitude

[BezKa]

1 minute ago, accelerztor203 said:

Aha, I'm happy as long as someone notices me and joins the discussion, I'm just waiting for the official attitude

You have received more responses from a developer than most people in their threads. If you are just waiting for action, as I said, it's a very busy time right now. We'll see how things develop. Because in the end, Klei do not want to remove mods. It might turn out they have a lot of patience before they'll have to enforce the rules. 

I very much wish all copied and re uploaded versions of your mods get taken down. It's entirely in Steam's hands, though, so I can't give you any gurantees or speak from experience. 

[accelerztor203]

9 minutes ago, BezKa said:

You have received more responses from a developer than most people in their threads. If you are just waiting for action, as I said, it's a very busy time right now. We'll see how things develop. Because in the end, Klei do not want to remove mods. It might turn out they have a lot of patience before they'll have to enforce the rules. 

I very much wish all copied and re uploaded versions of your mods get taken down. It's entirely in Steam's hands, though, so I can't give you any gurantees or speak from experience. 

Because the beta version has been updated, the test and experience results are not ideal, and I don't want to regret it, I have to figure it out, and get feedback for action, not inaction.
Or simply make an announcement, keli: I support self-use modules and oppose payment.
It's a pity that this is probably the hidden ending for now.
busy? The following words will be very ugly:
Keli's update content is pitiful, and it feels like it's forced to sell skins (of course, the company's business is normal, I can understand)

[goblinball]

While I can’t provide much advice since I’m not a modder myself, and the language barrier makes this whole fiasco difficult to understand, I hope you’ll be able to remove stolen copies of your mods soon. Perhaps, if steam hasn’t done anything yet, then maybe something is going wrong? I’d recommend talking with other modders and double checking to make sure everything is correct. While again, I’m not a modder myself, the ones I’ve talked to have been extremely nice; I’m sure someone will be willing to help.

[BezKa]

17 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

Because the beta version has been updated, the test and experience results are not ideal, and I don't want to regret it, I have to figure it out, and get feedback for action, not inaction.
Or simply make an announcement, keli: I support self-use modules and oppose payment.
It's a pity that this is probably the hidden ending for now.
busy? The following words will be very ugly:
Keli's update content is pitiful, and it feels like it's forced to sell skins (of course, the company's business is normal, I can understand)

You are right, those words were very ugly, but i have few more ways to describe them: one of them is disrespectful. Not only towards Klei, but to all people who enjoy the content and are excited for newest update. I believe you did not need to include that part at all, as it serves no purpose other than to make people feel bad. 

I do not understand the first paragraph. What are you referring to? 

Klei already gave an official statement. It's this one: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/322330/view/3104671425381249318

They also can't have an official stance on every single thing. So waiting for them to say to disapprove of something (for example, "self use" mods that are just stealing and reposting) only to then complain that they don't do anything about it is a waste of time. You will most likely not receive an big announcement from Klei that they do not like plagiarism or whatever, because that would be just stating their opinion, and they couldn't enforce their disapproval even if they wanted to. 

So only the stance of the paid mods is available. And that will have to be enough. 

[accelerztor203]

9 minutes ago, goblinball said:

While I can’t provide much advice since I’m not a modder myself, and the language barrier makes this whole fiasco difficult to understand, I hope you’ll be able to remove stolen copies of your mods soon. Perhaps, if steam hasn’t done anything yet, then maybe something is going wrong? I’d recommend talking with other modders and double checking to make sure everything is correct. While again, I’m not a modder myself, the ones I’ve talked to have been extremely nice; I’m sure someone will be willing to help.

I would also love to see someone take action

[Mr.Tarunio]

might be that time @JoeW , threads point might be going nowhere.

[accelerztor203]

13 minutes ago, BezKa said:

You are right, those words were very ugly, but i have few more ways to describe them: one of them is disrespectful. Not only towards Klei, but to all people who enjoy the content and are excited for newest update. I believe you did not need to include that part at all, as it serves no purpose other than to make people feel bad. 

I do not understand the first paragraph. What are you referring to? 

Klei already gave an official statement. It's this one: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/322330/view/3104671425381249318

They also can't have an official stance on every single thing. So waiting for them to say to disapprove of something (for example, "self use" mods that are just stealing and reposting) only to then complain that they don't do anything about it is a waste of time. You will most likely not receive an big announcement from Klei that they do not like plagiarism or whatever, because that would be just stating their opinion, and they couldn't enforce their disapproval even if they wanted to. 

So only the stance of the paid mods is available. And that will have to be enough. 

“With that being said. Beginning March 1st 2022, mods in violation of this rule will be removed from the workshop”

keli did any action？no, the only thing he did was make my heart hurt.

Those "but not permitted to offer services or content in exchange for monetary support or otherwise incentivize donations."

have not been removed

[BezKa]

4 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

keli did any action？

It's been 1 day. 

14 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

would also love to see someone take action

What action? What do you want to see happen?

[goblinball]

4 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

With that being said. Beginning March 1st 2022, mods in violation of this rule will be removed from the workshop”

keli did any action？no, the only thing he did was make my heart hurt.

Those "but not permitted to offer services or content in exchange for monetary support or otherwise incentivize donations."

have not been removed

Keep in mind we only just now reached the deadline. Klei has a lot they’re focusing on right now (the craft ui update, whatever other potential updates will be coming soon, other klei games such as ONI, DST on switch, etc). I understand you are frustrated, however it’s important to remain patient, as it’s not like klei can just look through the entire workshop and eliminate any and all mods with purchasable content in the span of 1 day, even if they weren’t already incredibly busy. Give it a little time, and I assure you mods with purchasable content will start being taken down.

[accelerztor203]

4 minutes ago, BezKa said:

It's been 1 day. 

What action? What do you want to see happen?

i want to see
A) Either all the paid modules will be removed from the shelves, and there will be none left.
Either don't care about the charging module at all, or you simply don't have the ability to manage the charging module and do your own update.
B) Either my rights as an author are maintained, and my steam terms are guaranteed.
or "self-use mods" all over the workshop

3 minutes ago, goblinball said:

Keep in mind we only just now reached the deadline. Klei has a lot they’re focusing on right now (the craft ui update, whatever other potential updates will be coming soon, other klei games such as ONI, DST on switch, etc). I understand you are frustrated, however it’s important to remain patient, as it’s not like klei can just look through the entire workshop and eliminate any and all mods with purchasable content in the span of 1 day, even if they weren’t already incredibly busy. Give it a little time, and I assure you mods with purchasable content will start being taken down.

Yes, I will wait, at least continue to pay attention, and see if it is resolved once a week or so, if it is not resolved I will bring it up again and again until it is resolved.

[BezKa]

3 minutes ago, accelerztor203 said:

A) Either all the paid modules will be removed from the shelves, and there will be none left.
Either don't care about the charging module at all, or you simply don't have the ability to manage the charging module and do your own update.
B) Either my rights as an author are maintained, and my steam terms are guaranteed.
or "self-use mods" all over the workshop

Absolutes are rare in life, but i guess that is all explanation that i needed. 

I think we can consider this topic finished, since everything got explained. 

[. . .]

3 hours ago, Mantispidae said:

It doesn't matter how many people like the thing

I think it's wrong to treat the people using the mod as nothing. You know those people (subscribers) are people too right? They make worlds and use the mod and some of them put a lot of time into their worlds and to take that away from thousands, no, probably more people for no real good reason other than legal jargon is cruel. All 600,000+ of those subscribers using the mod and enjoying it do matter.

3 hours ago, Mantispidae said:

even if it affects other's who enjoyed their work.

I can't agree with this. Punishing 600,000+ people for a petty reason like "if I can't have a share of the profits then nobody can!" is pretty sad.

Not that I agree with monetization in mods at all, I hate all sorts of monetization. Be it a modder or Klei's monetization I don't like any of them !

[NOOOBU]

你不会以为我是风雪服的人吧哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈本来就是性质很简单的一件事，神话违规，老司饥惹我，我举报神话，只有这两方，就这么简单。怎么你们这帮不知道哪里冒出来的杂鱼modder急眼了捏？我们之前有认识吗？

风雪我原先根本不知道，知道了也没渠道处理，无非就是再跟Joe多提一嘴而已。就风雪服那个性质科雷都不好精确抓人，何况我？我寄吧谁呀一写臭举报信的还真把我当什么手眼通天的大角色了吧。

路人都看得出来我搞神话是出于什么立场，大家都拱火嘛，8U们早看神话不顺眼了，谁不想神话死？我的立场重要吗？也就你们这帮傻卵乐呵呵的把我在贴吧随口讲的那段大家都早就心知肚明的东西当成什么不得了的把柄天天高强度传颂，拜托，我看了简直想笑。麻烦有点基本的双商好吗？秋梨膏

[JoeW]

Let's be clear about something. I WANT to be able to do something that allows mod makers to support themselves so they can make mods, if that's how they want to operate. I WANT people to be able to make a living doing what they love. 

I do NOT have a problem fundamentally with mod makers selling mods, or selling things in their mods. Personally. 

However, I have an obligation to protect our community as best as I can. 

Right now, without a better solution I have to ask that people do not monetize their mods. If you want to do that, you're gonna have to do it somewhere else. Until I have a better solution, that's how it's going to have to be.

So please, this isn't an argument. It's a requirement. And if it cannot be met, we're going to have issues. 

[accelerztor203]

26 minutes ago, NOOOBU said:

你不会以为我是风雪服的人吧哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈本来就是性质很简单的一件事，神话违规，老司饥惹我，我举报神话，只有这两方，就这么简单。怎么你们这帮不知道哪里冒出来的杂鱼modder急眼了捏？我们之前有认识吗？

风雪我原先根本不知道，知道了也没渠道处理，无非就是再跟Joe多提一嘴而已。就风雪服那个性质科雷都不好精确抓人，何况我？我寄吧谁呀一写臭举报信的还真把我当什么手眼通天的大角色了吧。

路人都看得出来我搞神话是出于什么立场，大家都拱火嘛，8U们早看神话不顺眼了，谁不想神话死？我的立场重要吗？也就你们这帮傻卵乐呵呵的把我在贴吧随口讲的那段大家都早就心知肚明的东西当成什么不得了的把柄天天高强度传颂，拜托，我看了简直想笑。麻烦有点基本的双商好吗？秋梨膏

你搞臭了我想玩的模组，仅此而已。老子就一臭打游戏的，你？无非是个跳梁小丑罢了，立场，你爱谁谁，关我屁事。不会以为你是多正义人士吧，不过你和一个伸张正义的英雄确实挺像的，那个英雄叫蝙蝠侠

[NOOOBU]

1 minute ago, accelerztor203 said:

你搞臭了我想玩的模组，仅此而已。老子就一臭打游戏的，你？无非是个跳梁小丑罢了，立场，你爱谁谁，关我屁事。不会以为你是多正义人士吧，不过你和一个伸张正义的英雄确实挺像的，那个英雄叫蝙蝠侠

你就是一臭打游戏的那你这波不是赢麻了？工坊一大堆破解版，皮肤都帮你免费了，你不谢谢你野爹我帮你省钱你还来骂我？

[accelerztor203]

10 minutes ago, JoeW said:

Let's be clear about something. I WANT to be able to do something that allows mod makers to support themselves so they can make mods, if that's how they want to operate. I WANT people to be able to make a living doing what they love. 

I do NOT have a problem fundamentally with mod makers selling mods, or selling things in their mods. Personally. 

However, I have an obligation to protect our community as best as I can. 

Right now, without a better solution I have to ask that people do not monetize their mods. If you want to do that, you're gonna have to do it somewhere else. Until I have a better solution, that's how it's going to have to be.

So please, this isn't an argument. It's a requirement. And if it cannot be met, we're going to have issues. 

please don't change the subject

1) I don't support monetization of mods, and I hate monetization, I support you guys. So, when will you remove those other paid mods as agreed in your announcement?
2) "I have an obligation to protect our community as best as I can" in my "Workshop Regulations" on how we, or my mods, should protect ourselves when violated, told I, how should I do it

please don't change the subject

[NOOOBU]

你自己不爽风雪偷了你的模组用于盈利你就说嘛，直接截图贴出来，顺便卖卖惨说“我是一个不知名的小modder现在有人偷了我的模组还用来赚钱公道何在？”你就事论事你在这发出来大家都支持你，连我都想支持你冲一波风雪。
本来一件你有理的事，非要搁这转移矛盾用个那么欠揍的角度来说还顺带把人官方骂了，你这不是活该？公关和神话老司饥学的是吧？天胡起手一手好牌打得稀烂？笑死我力

[accelerztor203]

2 minutes ago, NOOOBU said:

你就是一臭打游戏的那你这波不是赢麻了？工坊一大堆破解版，皮肤都帮你免费了，你不谢谢你野爹我帮你省钱你还来骂我？

你不会觉得那点垃圾玩意有多少技术含量吧不会吧不会吧，以你的技术拿键盘往屁股上蹭蹭都能破解的玩意，赶紧去给人家赞助赞助啊，让他更新内容给我玩啊，光破解皮肤这种技术倒是挺符合你的口味的

[NOOOBU]

Just now, accelerztor203 said:

你不会觉得那点垃圾玩意有多少技术含量吧不会吧不会吧，以你的技术拿键盘往屁股上蹭蹭都能破解的玩意，赶紧去给人家赞助赞助啊，让他更新内容给我玩啊，光破解皮肤这种技术倒是挺符合你的口味的

他们神话不是说“我们不为盈利，我们用爱发电吗”，那这和我举报让他们付费下架有什么关系呢？按理来说他们不应该继续保持更新嘛？是吧
他们继续更新，你还能玩破解版享受免费神话皮肤，我们都有光明的未来

[dish-order man]

8 minutes ago, JoeW said:

Let's be clear about something. I WANT to be able to do something that allows mod makers to support themselves so they can make mods, if that's how they want to operate. I WANT people to be able to make a living doing what they love. 

I do NOT have a problem fundamentally with mod makers selling mods, or selling things in their mods. Personally. 

However, I have an obligation to protect our community as best as I can. 

Right now, without a better solution I have to ask that people do not monetize their mods. If you want to do that, you're gonna have to do it somewhere else. Until I have a better solution, that's how it's going to have to be.

So please, this isn't an argument. It's a requirement. And if it cannot be met, we're going to have issues. 

Very clear and explicit requirements, if one can't do it then will run into problems.

 

As far as I know, they have a mod production QQ group of about 1500 people, and the group is denouncing klei's bad attitude every day. The current situation is that Klei now have a requirement and policy that is endorsed by the vast majority of players and content creators. But these people are not satisfied with this, they think this policy and requirement of yours is very unreasonable and totally double standard. So far, I don't think the communication would make much sense, because the two sides (as game developers and as people who want to monetize from game content) have huge differences on the bottom line.

 

By the way, that Chinese server is monetizing, but obviously it's not a monetizing mod because it doesn't even have a mod at all. It's in "you're gonna have to do it somewhere else" statement and it's not even within the gaming community.

 

How to remove a mod that doesn't exist at all?

[accelerztor203]

1 minute ago, NOOOBU said:

你自己不爽风雪偷了你的模组用于盈利你就说嘛，直接截图贴出来，顺便卖卖惨说“我是一个不知名的小modder现在有人偷了我的模组还用来赚钱公道何在？”你就事论事你在这发出来大家都支持你，连我都想支持你冲一波风雪。
本来一件你有理的事，非要搁这转移矛盾用个那么欠揍的角度来说还顺带把人官方骂了，你这不是活该？公关和神话老司饥学的是吧？天胡起手一手好牌打得稀烂？笑死我力

哈，风雪，关我屁事啊，这不也算收费模组吗。用我的模组盈利？笑话，人家一个大服务器怎会看上我这个小模组。“不是，难道你不成真的以为我是什么正义使者吗”

1 minute ago, dish-order man said:

Very clear and explicit requirements, if one can't do it then will run into problems.

 

As far as I know, they have a mod production QQ group of about 1500 people, and the group is denouncing klei's bad attitude every day. The current situation is that Klei now have a requirement and policy that is endorsed by the vast majority of players and content creators. But these people are not satisfied with this, they think this policy and requirement of yours is very unreasonable and totally double standard. So far, I don't think the communication would make much sense, because the two sides (as game developers and as people who want to monetize from game content) have huge differences on the bottom line.

 

By the way, that Chinese server is monetizing, but obviously it's not a monetizing mod because it doesn't even have a mod at all. It's in "you're gonna have to do it somewhere else" statement and it's not even within the gaming community.

 

How to remove a mod that doesn't exist at all?

So, how does Keli maintain such an environment?

[NOOOBU]

Just now, accelerztor203 said:

“不是，难道你不成真的以为我是什么正义使者吗”

你不会真的以为这句话能冒犯到谁吧（流汗黄豆.jpg）

动动你的小猪脑子好好想想，我敢在公共场合说出来，我还怕你抓包？大家一开始都知道的事情罢了，谁不知道我搞神话是为了什么