I hand an epiphany, maybe I sound dumb idk

[HowlVoid]

So I know this may sound stupid (that's my middle name to wear it out), but what if Wolfgang outgrew some of us and... Found himself?

I was done making my usual Wolfgang rant and I though, well maybe it's not so bad to move away from a character if it no longer appeals to you.

Then the monkey in my head started to furiously crank my thinking box so hard I had an epiphany:

"What if it's not that Wolfgang doesn't appeal to you...

What if you don't appeal to Wolfgang?"

At this point the monkey in my head stopped cranking my thinking box and fell over...

He won't recover, don't send help.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I know it's dumb because he's a video game character and all, but if you think of him as a conglomerate of ideas from those at Klei, that fused together and came to life... Well, what if that life... Underwent a metamorphosis ?

What if we are the ones trying to force our ideas on Wolfgang; trying change and stretch him into a mold that no longer exists? 

Perhaps the idea of a speedrunning, all powerful, all purpose Wolfgang was outdated and what he have now is a new Wolfgang, but it's not the same... Concept. This Wolfgang is a matured idea, a matured purpose, a matured... Character. Not something old repurposed, but something new entirely that isn't trying to imitate something old, but trying to find an identity of it's own, that we need to give space to, so it can live and breath? 

Old Wolfgang isn't dead, it's gone entirely, and that's ok. 

It's hard to move on from something that's so different and yet the same of what you used to enjoy, especially when you have poured so much of your time into perfecting. However, this isn't Wolfgang anymore, not the Wolfgang you know. The changes have been too drastic and most of us have been in denial or too aware that it isn't the same Wolfgang from single player. I think that if you have not enjoyed this Wolfgang, than it's time to move on... And that's ok. 

There are 17 other psychos out there ready for you to play and die with, over and over again with. (I recommend the potted plant in the corner of the room)

Anyways, I wanted to leave some positive vibes out there for my disappointed homies. I think if you stop trying to grasp at something at is no longer there, it will make the grieving process a whole lot easier.

Also, Wanda exists. 

Peace.

Spoiler

No, I'm not on drugs. I drank too much coffee, again.

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

No, I'm not on drugs. I drank too much coffee, again.

so you are on drugs

damn coffe, why is so delicious

[HowlVoid]

You know, after writing this, I just realized this isn't positive at all rofl.

[SecretPizzaMan]

6 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

You know, after writing this, I just realized this isn't positive at all rolf.

This sounds like a loved one died and your parents are trying to justify it by saying they were a angel and weren't meant for this earth and that god gave them to us as a temporary gift.

[Mike23Ua]

Do any of you guys ever play Smite? Like I know it’s a PVP game and all but characters people liked and paid money for because they enjoyed the way they played can at any given time be changed..

Original Loki Vs Re-worked Loki for prime example:

My point is games evolve & change over time: Concepts and Ideas from 2013 are no longer validated anymore and people demand something new exciting & fresh.

Sometimes these changes are minor and hardly even noticeable, sometimes they buffs or nerfs to things, sometimes it’s QoL tweaks to improve something not quite working out right and then there are times where they just erase what’s written on the chalk board and draw up something new altogether.

The thing we have to keep in mind is that Wolfgang isn’t any of the people who played as Him’s idea or concept, it was Klei’s and regardless of how much we praise or complain about him: He’s going to ultimately live up to the idealization Klei has set fourth for him.

I think it’s safe to say the people saying take away all his damage give me back that juicy SPEED or even the ones saying they will just switch to Wigfrid or Wanda instead never really liked Wolfgang as a character.

The same can apply to me and Wigfrids rework, I was absolutely floored when it didn’t allow her to do more “Viking” stuff but, That’s not the Theme or Concept Klei has in mind for her and I have since then come to accept her as the Opera singer stuck method acting a Viking role she’s meant to be.

Her deal with Maxwell wasn’t to be a better Viking, it was to get back all the former glory she once had as a Singing actress - hence the song scrolls I once questioned’s entire existence.

Wigfrids ACTUAL Role which I’m assuming she has yet to realize yet isn’t of a Viking OR an Opera Singer but instead one of Baird or Valkyrie: People who Sing AS they beat you up..

Wolfgang on the other hand was Mighty and I feel like there’s more Klei can do to portray his Mightiness hopefully they’ll take these 3 weeks off on holiday and then come back with a bigger badder more Mighty Wolfgang, because the current version could use some tweaks & QoL improvements.

[BoysenSyrup]

They can rebuild Wolfgang... they have the technology!

...but yeah, people who preferred Wolfgang's faster playstyle will probably get their wish soon when one of them makes a mod, or something. Hopefully they won't have to grieve for long. It'll be like when your parents flushed your dead goldfish down the toilet and got a new one, it'll feel the same, even if it was once dead and it looks a little funny,

 

[Gi-Go]

It's not that easy to let Wolfgang's case go, since his death wasn't some kind of accident. It was a deliberate assassination by klei. The question is... who payed for it and why?

In all seriousness, the discussion was never about speedrunning. They are just a good reference point for objectively comparing characters. Going into an extreme tryhard zone is the only way to objectively test characters might. Because speedrunners never pick characters for stuff like favorite quotes or nice moustache. They do it for the perks. And if speedrunner thinks character perks are good, then they are objectively good and everyone will find them useful. If speedrunner thinks character got worse, and his perks became trash, then character is worse and even if you aren't noticing it with your passive layed back playstyle - his perks are indeed trash. 

I don't want speed nerf to slide. It makes no sence, nobody likes it. People who do like it are just wrong (fact, not an opinion). And I can point fingers and say why they are wrong to each and one of them.

Starting with Toros, the maker of the Wolfgang remake mod that klei ripped off this rework from. Toros thinks that kiting dragonfly is hard because Wolfgang's speed boost shifts and is inconsistent. While I'd love to ignore his inability to kite, and remind him that there are people who recorded no damage on her as Wolfgang and they seemed fine, I will instead say that linear speed boost is the best solution to this nonexistent "issue", as it is a compromise that leaves us both happy. Klei didn't remove his damage buff cuz it wasn't inconsistent, and neither should they remove his speed for that same reason. 

Who else thinks speed removal is good? Speak up.

[SecretPizzaMan]

9 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

It's not that easy to let Wolfgang's case go, since his death wasn't some kind of accident. It was a deliberate assassination by klei. The question is... who payed for it and why?

In all seriousness, the discussion was never about speedrunning. They are just a good reference point for objectively comparing characters. Going into an extreme tryhard zone is the only way to objectively test characters might. Because speedrunners never pick characters for stuff like favorite quotes or nice moustache. They do it for the perks. And if speedrunner thinks character perks are good, then they are objectively good and everyone will find them useful. If speedrunner thinks character got worse, and his perks became trash, then character is worse and even if you aren't noticing it with your passive layed back playstyle - his perks are indeed trash. 

I don't want speed nerf to slide. It makes no sence, nobody likes it. People who do like it are just wrong (fact, not an opinion). And I can point fingers and say why they are wrong to each and one of them.

Starting with Toros, the maker of the Wolfgang remake mod that klei ripped off this rework from. Toros thinks that kiting dragonfly is hard because Wolfgang's speed boost shifts and is inconsistent. While I'd love to ignore his inability to kite, and remind him that there are people who recorded no damage on her as Wolfgang and they seemed fine, I will instead say that linear speed boost is the best solution to this nonexistent "issue", as it is a compromise that leaves us both happy. Klei didn't remove his damage buff cuz it wasn't inconsistent, and neither should they remove his speed for that same reason. 

Who else thinks speed removal is good? Speak up.

Uhh, me.

[Gi-Go]

6 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Uhh, me.

That's nice, but I'd like to hear why. Don't worry, I'm not angrey at people just because they think different. The only thing I'm upset at is how unjust this nerf is and how there is not a single reason why it's a good thing. So, tell me why you like it and meaby I'll even learn something new today and will change my view. Discussions is what forums are for are they not?

[Cloakingsumo198]

46 minutes ago, BoySyrup said:

They can rebuild Wolfgang... they have the technology!

...but yeah, people who preferred Wolfgang's faster playstyle will probably get their wish soon when one of them makes a mod, or something. Hopefully they won't have to grieve for long. It'll be like when your parents flushed your dead goldfish down the toilet and got a new one, it'll feel the same, even if it was once dead and it looks a little funny,

 

Dam nu wofjenk liuk a lil dofrent

27 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

It's not that easy to let Wolfgang's case go, since his death wasn't some kind of accident. It was a deliberate assassination by klei. The question is... who payed for it and why?.

Your words never fail to hurt....as deep down this feeling still pains me.

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

So I know this may sound stupid 

"What if it's not that Wolfgang doesn't appeal to you...

What if you don't appeal to Wolfgang?"

He won't recover, don't send help.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Old Wolfgang isn't dead, it's gone entirely, and that's ok. 

  Reveal hidden contents

No, I'm not on drugs. I drank too much coffee, again.

 

All I saw

[SecretPizzaMan]

34 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

That's nice, but I'd like to hear why. Don't worry, I'm not angrey at people just because they think different. The only thing I'm upset at is how unjust this nerf is and how there is not a single reason why it's a good thing. So, tell me why you like it and meaby I'll even learn something new today and will change my view. Discussions is what forums are for are they not?

That reply was a joke, but I would like to share my thoughts. Wolfgangs speed always made me itch, as in he was able to obtain a 1.2x speed boost while doing the bare minimum.

1. Default speed characters needed a beefalo for a taste of speed.

2. Wx needs a telelocator staff in order to be faster for a limited timeframe.

3. Wormwood has spring and only takes effect when they are off a beefalo.

4. Wortox gets it in the cost of souls.

And Wolfgang? He just needed to stuff food, that's it.

He didn't lose much from speed boost being gone, the again I'm not a Wolfgang main I only play him when I want to do small boss rushes. And when I did it was much slower then before since I couldn't just run around in the speed of sound and gather all the trail mix very fast. But I'm happy with it, he hasn't lost his bee Queen killing capabilities or boss rushing abilities. I don't care if they add it back if it makes Wolfgang mains happy.

[Gi-Go]

1 minute ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Speed perks might be too good to be considered fair. 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Here is what I think of it: 

First of all, loosing the only good perk outside of combat is a huge deal. It makes staying mighty underwhelming and unrewarding, as many people who complain noticed. While being mighty is easier now, it sure isn't as worth it. In fact, I think being mighty outside of boss raids is pointless, and you should ride beefalo instead like the the rest of the cast. Speed perks are also very great in general, but they are nothing to be jealous of. Everyone can get speedboost from beefalo after all. Gameplay of Wolfgang has changed drastically. Now you need beefalo for him to be great. If he still had his speed boost, he would have been one of the no cow guys, and we definetly need more of them, or else the character choice will get redundant. People on a beefalo are more or less the same. 

Also, did you know that wormwood can get his blooming from rubbing dead fishes or using his huge poop thing he crafts? It's a very great perk and everyone loves it, even if it dosen't fit into his most popular playstyle of being a farm boy and sitting at base. Wx78 should not be even mentioned as he is currently unreworked. And as for wortox, his speedboost is very special and fun in its own way. + As long as you are killing something you get it for free. 

Also, Wolfgang's speed was not as cheap as you think, most of the time it was better to not increase your hunger rate x3 outside of combat, because you would waste more time getting extra food than the time you save by walking faster. Nowdays it would be the cheapest speed indeed. But who's complaining?

My conclusion is that having speed perks is what will save this meta from beefalo overuse, and will make Walter, Warly, Wes and Wendy mains feel even better about their pick. That's what I think. 

[Guille6785]

reading this was an experience

[HowlVoid]

6 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Also, did you know that wormwood can get his blooming from rubbing dead fishes or using his huge poop thing he crafts? It's a very great perk and everyone loves it, even if it dosen't fit into his most popular playstyle of being a farm boy and sitting at base. 

Them are fighting Words, boi.

Just now, Guille6785 said:

reading this was an experience

And what kind of experience did you have?

[Gi-Go]

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Them are fighting Words, boi.

Not sure what that means, but thanks I guess. Wormwood is quickly growing on me now that Wolfgang is dead. And oooooh~ can I quickly say how good he looks with his big white eyes and his sharp teeth? I love how all the helmets fit and look fantastic on him. Unlike with the other green monster. Yikes. He is just amazing boy all around. No wonder so many people love him. 

[HowlVoid]

13 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Not sure what that means, but thanks I guess. Wormwood is quickly growing on me now that Wolfgang is dead. And oooooh~ can I quickly say how good he looks with his big white eyes and his sharp teeth? I love how all the helmets fit and look fantastic on him. Unlike with the other green monster. Yikes. He is just amazing boy all around. No wonder so many people love him. 

Good, I'll let you live another day.

[Owlrust]

I'm sorry friend, don't take this the wrong way. But...

3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

"What if it's not that Wolfgang doesn't appeal to you...What if you don't appeal to Wolfgang?"

[ArubaroBeefalo]

woormwood played a lot with some of his plant friends

[Picklesaurus]

59 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

My conclusion is that having speed perks is what will save this meta from beefalo overuse, and will make Walter, Warly, Wes and Wendy mains feel even better about their pick. That's what I think. 

I didn't know there is a beefalo meta, is it normal for speedruners to tame a beefalo before accomplishing their objetives?
When I tame beefalo it is mostly for the convenience during casual play - speedy 1000hp regenative meatshield that deals almost dark sword's damage is really convenient for small fights and moving around - and it always feels like a luxury that I mostly look foward in worlds I'm planning to stay  long term since it consumes a considerable amount of time to setup.

One last thing is I didn't know old wolf could compete with beefalo's speed, rider with a normal sandle  is already 24,5% faster than a max speed old wolf with a walking cane (no magi), did you build cobblestone roads connecting your map?

[QuartzBeam]

Ask not what Wolfgang can do for you, but what you can do for Wolfgang.

[HowlVoid]

The only sad thing is that I didn't get enough reacts to feed my children. 

We'll go hungry tonight .

[Gi-Go]

9 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

I didn't know there is a beefalo meta, is it normal for speedruners to tame a beefalo before accomplishing their objetives?
When I tame beefalo it is mostly for the convenience during casual play - speedy 1000hp regenative meatshield that deals almost dark sword's damage is really convenient for small fights and moving around - and it always feels like a luxury that I mostly look foward in worlds I'm planning to stay  long term since it consumes a considerable amount of time to setup.

One last thing is I didn't know old wolf could compete with beefalo's speed, rider with a normal sandle  is already 24,5% faster than a max speed old wolf with a walking cane (no magi), did you build cobblestone roads connecting your map?

If doing all bosses rush then the best picks would be Wanda or Wendy on a cow. But when I talked meta I meant more of a just normal playstyle. There really is no reason not to use beefalo unless you just don't want to ride them. They are superior to most characters on foot in every way. If a character has a speed boost however he can combine it with other speed boost items and then he will be considered redeemable in my eyes. Speed boost is the main perk of a cow, the others being not so important. A tentacle spike damage and a not so good meat shield. And of course versatility with equip slots. To get dark sword damage you need sheep and those aren't really reliable or woth hunting for in my opinion unless you plan on keeping the world for years and just want to get your hands on everything. Cobblestone I never use. 

Long or short world - as long as it's not pub you came for a couple of hours of entertainment, taming beefalo is probably worth the trouble. 

[Catchee]

11 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

The only sad thing is that I didn't get enough reacts to feed my children. 

We'll go hungry tonight .

I give you food: 

[BezKa]

The forums going through the stages of grief gotta be the funniest thing I've seen on the internet 

[Toroic]

8 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

It's not that easy to let Wolfgang's case go, since his death wasn't some kind of accident. It was a deliberate assassination by klei. The question is... who payed for it and why?

In all seriousness, the discussion was never about speedrunning. They are just a good reference point for objectively comparing characters. Going into an extreme tryhard zone is the only way to objectively test characters might. Because speedrunners never pick characters for stuff like favorite quotes or nice moustache. They do it for the perks. And if speedrunner thinks character perks are good, then they are objectively good and everyone will find them useful. If speedrunner thinks character got worse, and his perks became trash, then character is worse and even if you aren't noticing it with your passive layed back playstyle - his perks are indeed trash. 

I don't want speed nerf to slide. It makes no sence, nobody likes it. People who do like it are just wrong (fact, not an opinion). And I can point fingers and say why they are wrong to each and one of them.

Starting with Toros, the maker of the Wolfgang remake mod that klei ripped off this rework from. Toros thinks that kiting dragonfly is hard because Wolfgang's speed boost shifts and is inconsistent. While I'd love to ignore his inability to kite, and remind him that there are people who recorded no damage on her as Wolfgang and they seemed fine, I will instead say that linear speed boost is the best solution to this nonexistent "issue", as it is a compromise that leaves us both happy. Klei didn't remove his damage buff cuz it wasn't inconsistent, and neither should they remove his speed for that same reason. 

Who else thinks speed removal is good? Speak up.

If you’re going to speak about me, you should ping me so you can say it with your chest.

Wolfgang’s linear scaling doesn’t make challenges difficult, it makes them annoying because you end up micromanging Wolf’s hunger because the difference between 1 shotting a spider and 2 shotting a spider or stunning dfly or not stunning dfly or dodging perfectly vs dodging too early and taking an unnecessary hit is worth the work.

But do I miss any of that nonsense?  Absolutely not.

Wolf now has even better synergy with a rider beefalo, because the only thing he needs a beef for is speed, and if using a beef to transport a heavy object Wolf doesn’t lose any mightiness.

Belt of hunger synergy is still there because you reduce the cost of gym use by 40%, and without linear scaling 51 damage weapons are actually useful against certain enemies.

Right now we know the least about how to optimize new wolf’s playstyle.  If we can reliably get 2 stuns solo on dfly that could be a faster and easier strategy than is being used right now.