The Problem with the Sails and Anchor due to Waterlogged

[petterr44]

Most of us are very happy to see this update, some enjoy going to sea to get valuable resources and come back while others, like me, love building a houseboat and live on the ocean for extended periods of time. In both cases, the ocean offers a new DST play experience full of new/different adventures! 

According to the update log, the “top speed of rowing was reduced so that they are still awesome for moving in tight spaces while still giving the sails the spotlight for open seas”. Here is the problem with this:

If you’ve been sailing in DST, you will be very happy with the new speed of sails but you would still want to be able to navigate through tight spaces using the sails and the anchor without needing the oar. Let me elaborate a bit more. 

Before the update, the boat still drifted slowly in the direction of the open sails when the anchor was down and that was crucial to driving the boat as it allowed you to maneuver your way through sea stacks, salt formations, and sea weeds smoothly, with precision and without risking crashing into them (without ever needing an oar). You could drop the anchor, leave one sail up, and drive/steer from one formation to another knowing that you won’t hit the sea weeds hard enough to get them to attack you or crashing into a formation causing a leak in your boat. And if you needed a bit more movement to reach the next one, all you needed to do is to very briefly lift the anchor and drop it to gain a bit of momentum. In a similar way, driving through sea stacks and by just using the steering wheel and the anchor, you could drive the boat with the anchor down and smoothly navigate through the stacks without ever hitting them all while your character is standing still in place on the boat. By simply placing the anchor and the steering wheel next to each other, all you need to do when you encounter formations is to drop your anchor and then you simply can navigate those formations with the steering wheel (and the occasional very brief lift of the anchor) efficiently, with very high precision and in a very short amount of time. Unfortunately I am unable to take a screen recording to demonstrate this anymore, because now this no longer works.

Following the waterlogged update, the anchor completely stops the boat regardless of how many sails you have left open. Because of this, all of the above is not possible anymore and it also means that to go through tight spaces you have to do it with the oar and you now have to perform 5 actions instead of 1:

1. Drop the anchor
2. Close the sails
3. lift the anchor when the boat is halted
4. row in one specific direction with an oar
5. If you gain too much momentum, you have to either run to the other side of the boat and row in the opposite direction to slow down the boat or you have to run to the anchor to drop it and then re-lift it again  (which takes a very long time in the deep sea). 

It's much harder to make curves which means you will hit the formations much more often and you are more likely to make leaks as controlling the speed is not as reliable with an oar. Don’t forget that if you have a houseboat full of structures on the outer edge and other players accompanying you, your path will often be blocked and this will prevent you from reacting with the oar fast enough.

As it currently stands, the sailing experience feels broken when using sails as driving the boat to perform certain tasks like getting salt, barnacles, figs, is now much slower in general as you have to do it with the oar. The reason why I said that you have to do it with the oar is because trying to do it with sails and anchor without the old drifting mechanics will now take even longer than doing it with an oar and became very frustrating so you are better off just using the oar, all of this also completely taking the spotlight away from the sails.

My suggestion would be to allow the boat to drift in the direction set by the steering wheel if you have sails open and the anchor dropped. If you do not want the boat to drift 1 open sail while the anchor is dropped, then at least make it possible with 2 or more open sails.

[Well-met]

What if klei just adds a new boat with more health but with the physics of the old

[Josina]

Dear Klei,

I strongly agree with petterr44's criticism and suggestion. I'm an avid sailor and love living on a houseboat in DST, and since the update I can't get myself to sail as the new anchor / steering mechanics were essentially broken with the update. For sailing to be an enjoyable experience you should be able to (as you have been) sail smoothly with sails, which is no longer possible. It is incredibly frustrating to keep having to lift and drop the anchor and sails constantly now, and it makes navigating sea stacks, sea weeds or salt much slower, more dangerous, and cumbersome. The only way to cope with this is to switch to the use of an oar, which doesn't make sense. It's like depriving a car of the ability to drive below 20 mph and forcing the driver to push it manually whenever they are not looking to drive fast on a highway. 

It makes sense that the anchor was made stronger as top speeds of the boat have been increased, but it should not have a *complete* stopping power when sails are open, as this both violates physics and makes driving choppy and cumbersome.

[TemporarySolutn]

this is a non issue imo

[sokoteur]

2 hours ago, Josina said:

it should not have a *complete* stopping power when sails are open, as this both violates physics and makes driving choppy and cumbersome.

 

You ever been on an anchored boat? Sure a boat can move a certain distance dependent on the depth, but it won't continually move as an anchor is literally designed to stop movement, it's called an anchor for a reason. Keep the change.

[Echsrick]

i agree whit you its was nice movin that slow around while able to steer your sails around those rocks to savely move around them or in the night time movin in unexplored areas just anchor sails to still move slow around and being able to steer was kinda better that way then forching to use the oar while sails are out and changin your anchor up and down all the time to change from sails to oar as well this short boost was realy usefull as you aproach land so yes its just not needed detium now

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, sokoteur said:

 

You ever been on an anchored boat? Sure a boat can move a certain distance dependent on the depth, but it won't continually move as an anchor is literally designed to stop movement, it's called an anchor for a reason. Keep the change.

You're right, how things work in real life should triumph over what feels good in-game. Keep this change, Klei, and also make it so that the boat immediately breaks and causes you to drown as soon as you try jumping onto it because nails are not a crafting material in its construction.

[HowlVoid]

I kinda like the fact that if I'm going very fast I can instantly stop and avoid collision. 

I think it was a needed change given the new top speed.

Before with 3 sails and an anchor I could still accidently crash into stuff, I cant imagine stopping in time with the new speed.

My boats are usually really empty so I don't have the outer edge problem, maybe don't clutter your boat? I do think that driving with an oar shouldn't cause holes though.

[QuartzBeam]

8 hours ago, petterr44 said:

it also means that to go through tight spaces you have to do it with the oar and you now have to perform 5 actions instead of 1:

1. Drop the anchor
2. Close the sails
3. lift the anchor when the boat is halted
4. row in one specific direction with an oar
5. If you gain too much momentum, you have to either run to the other side of the boat and row in the opposite direction to slow down the boat or you have to run to the anchor to drop it and then re-lift it again  (which takes a very long time in the deep sea)

You just described how rowing worked before the Waterlogged update.

The new rowing mechanics allow you to fine tune your boat's speed, which means you can easily move the boat then bring it to a complete halt on a whim, without so much as touching the anchor.

[Josina]

THANK YOU SO MUCH Klei for fixing this so fast!!! Just tried it in the latest release from tonight and sailing with sails is smooth again. 

[HowlVoid]

Just saw someone on stream crash because they were going so fast. 

Now you have to make a mad dash to your sails. 

This should be a configuration in the options menu because I honestly liked the old way better.

[QuartzBeam]

20 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Just saw someone on stream crash because they were going so fast. 

With how many masts and how many winged sails?

[licet_insanire]

On 8/14/2021 at 12:35 AM, QuartzBeam said:

You just described how rowing worked before the Waterlogged update.

The new rowing mechanics allow you to fine tune your boat's speed, which means you can easily move the boat then bring it to a complete halt on a whim, without so much as touching the anchor.

How can this be done "on a whim"? Maybe with an oar, in my experience not with a mast. I would be very thankful if you showed me or explained to me your method.

[QuartzBeam]

18 minutes ago, licet_insanire said:

How can this be done "on a whim"? Maybe with an oar, in my experience not with a mast. I would be very thankful if you showed me or explained to me your method.

I am talking about oars, specifically using them to move around Brine Shoals and Sea Weeds.

[HowlVoid]

Really wish Klei didn't enact this change, sigh, so frustrating. Having 3 feathered sails and stoping on a dime is amazing. 

All because people couldn't figure out how to use the oar properly. I never had to "run to the other side to slow my momentum", you have to know how fast to row and when. 

When you have a route properly cleared you can sail to one place, drop anchor, hop off boat, no closing the sails required! Steer to a new direction and then un-anchor the boat, boom, you're good to go and you never touched your sails. This was far more practical and useful. Boats are great for getting from one place to another and there aren't that many times where you actually need to navigate very slowly. How often do you actually need salt? And if you need a lot of barnacles you can place a few boats and the hop from one to another. 

Dreading this "hot fix" on console. This needs to be a toggleable option for those of us that want our boats to stop on command. Soon I will have to use the oar far more often as I drift past things/ stop too soon to avoid colliding and give my self time to close the sails and I will have to close my sails EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[MondayNight]

16 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Really wish Klei didn't enact this change, sigh, so frustrating. Having 3 feathered sails and stoping on a dime is amazing. 

All because people couldn't figure out how to use the oar properly. I never had to "run to the other side to slow my momentum", you have to know how fast to row and when. 

When you have a route properly cleared you can sail to one place, drop anchor, hop off boat, no closing the sails required! Steer to a new direction and then un-anchor the boat, boom, you're good to go and you never touched your sails. This was far more practical and useful. Boats are great for getting from one place to another and there aren't that many times where you actually need to navigate very slowly. How often do you actually need salt? And if you need a lot of barnacles you can place a few boats and the hop from one to another. 

Dreading this "hot fix" on console. This needs to be a toggleable option for those of us that want our boats to stop on command. Soon I will have to use the oar far more often as I drift past things/ stop too soon to avoid colliding and give my self time to close the sails and I will have to close my sails EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Is a bit more immersive than the "press X button and have a magic instant effect". Also represents action and its consequence: if you aren't quick enough to lower your masts, you can have an impact occur. Survival. Weren't you guys adamant on other threads about the Survival facet of DST? This change leans a bit in said direction. Harder, more complex things. And no, the "tedious" "get me out of jail" card doesn't work here, never did. Is just a tiny bit of engagement required plus offers additional possibilities. And, dare I say, is a tad more realistic: lowering an anchor won't instantly stop momentum of a boat, more-so if engines/masts are in function.

[HowlVoid]

37 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Is a bit more immersive than the "press X button and have a magic instant effect".

What magic? An anchor drops down and the boat stops.

37 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Also represents action and its consequence: if you aren't quick enough to lower your masts, you can have an impact occur. Survival.

No it doesn't lol. What? Action and consequence on a simple sailing mechanic? It has nothing to do with survival. 

37 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Weren't you guys adamant on other threads about the Survival facet of DST?

Nothing to do with survival. This is about what feels comfortable when sailing.

37 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

This change leans a bit in said direction. Harder, more complex things. And no, the "tedious" "get me out of jail" card doesn't work here, never did.

The original post was also complaining about tedium. That is the whole point with make suggestions for mechanics, to avoid tedium. 

37 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Is just a tiny bit of engagement required plus offers additional possibilities.

It removes possibilities and buffed wavy jones. Sailing slowly was already possible with the oar.

37 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

And, dare I say, is a tad more realistic: lowering an anchor won't instantly stop momentum of a boat, more-so if engines/masts are in function.

Then you have never ridden a boat in your life. Especially in the ocean, an anchor will absolutely stop even a motor boat, so much so that it can irreparably damage your boat. I have gone fishing in the ocean a great many years of my life and have seen boats ripped apart because of carelessness of forgetting to hoist the anchor.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

What magic? An anchor drops down and the boat stops.

No it doesn't lol. What? Action and consequence on a simple sailing mechanic? It has nothing to do with survival. 

Nothing to do with survival. This is about what feels comfortable when sailing.

The original post was also complaining about tedium. That is the whole point with make suggestions for mechanics, to avoid tedium. 

It removes possibilities and buffed wavy jones. Sailing slowly was already possible with the oar.

Then you have never ridden a boat in your life. Especially in the ocean, an anchor will absolutely stop even a motor boat, so much so that it can irreparably damage your boat. I have gone fishing in the ocean a great many years of my life and have seen boats ripped apart because of carelessness of forgetting to hoist the anchor.

No, it doesn't, consequence free. Literally at the end you, from your pov, exemplified such consequence. One that should've translated into DST mechanics then if "stops at a halt, engine and masts up" = boat's ripped to shreds as failed survival/bad actions towards survival. Then yes, I would be for such change, is Survival-oriented. And of course it has to do with it: boat crashes, you wash ashore with items missing, insane and wet, capped HP, Terrorbeak comes "Bonjour!" you to the ghost world, map resets if playing solo and no shenanigans employed. "Uncompromising survival" at its finest, eh. Saw it plenty in dedicated pubs. They failed survival by crashing their boats, and died in the end. Possibilities = drifting (anchor down, masts up). Drifting was eliminated before being yet again reintroduced, after complains like OP's, hence another possibility of slow-speed sailing aside oar. And yes, Wavey Jones should always be a danger for your Survival via sabotage.

[minespatch]

My anchor comment is towards to me being alone but okay.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

No, it doesn't, consequence free. Literally at the end you, from your pov, exemplified such consequence. One that should've translated into DST mechanics then if "stops at a halt, engine and masts up" = boat's ripped to shreds as failed survival/bad actions towards survival. Then yes, I would be for such change, is Survival-oriented.

That example was a counter to your "but realism!". Though in hindsight I shouldn't have entertained that argument at all, as any argument comparing a video game to realism is silly. 

Quote

And of course it has to do with it: boat crashes, you wash ashore with items missing, insane and wet, capped HP, Terrorbeak comes "Bonjour!" you to the ghost world, map resets if playing solo and no shenanigans employed. "Uncompromising survival" at its finest, eh. Saw it plenty in dedicated pubs. They failed survival by crashing their boats, and died in the end. Possibilities = drifting (anchor down, masts up). Drifting was eliminated before being yet again reintroduced, after complains like OP's, hence another possibility of slow-speed sailing aside oar. And yes, Wavey Jones should always be a danger for your Survival via sabotage.

Poor play will always result in poor results. If you sailed at all before the "fix" then you'd know it doesn't make sailing that much easier or harder. Simply put, it adds an alternate way to control your boat. I don't see a reason why both experiences can't be available through a simple toggle. 

[MondayNight]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Poor play will always result in poor results. If you sailed at all before the "fix" then you'd know it doesn't make sailing that much easier or harder. Simply put, it adds an alternate way to control your boat. I don't see a reason why both experiences can't be available through a simple toggle. 

Vast player-base majority is in the "poor play = poor results" camp. For them is Survival even the smallest of changes. For "day 3 solo DF Wes rusher with no healing, no armor, no walls" (the particular minority of very good DST players and not only, any decent one would do) any way sailing gets revamped won't matter, such player(s) will fair excellent/good no matter what. Yet KLei makes games for bulk player-base - evidenced by the character rework buffs. My point: drifting offers a +1 alternative beside oar. For me is good, since on all servers I play, I sail, and I take a +1.