what about giving "befriended" spiders special powers?

[HeatAndRun]

There's currently no reason to use spiders other than nurses or spitters. So here's my 2 cents : What about giving a special ability to "befriended" spiders? There's so many possibility : Avoid attack based on rng, Slow down enemy, reduce enemy's attack damage, AoE attack or defense buff, draw aggro, so on. This rework really improve Webber, but it feels like missing great opportunity of interesting combat experience.

[Well-met]

here's the reason : ressources

[Mysterious box]

53 minutes ago, Well-met said:

here's the reason : ressources

To be fair this is kinda a non issue too as you could just stockpile spitters from dens using traps. I can't believe I didn't think of this myself ngl. It's even cheaper too because you can wait till day to drop them so they fall asleep next to each other halfling the meat cost.

 

1 hour ago, HeatAndRun said:

There's currently no reason to use spiders other than nurses or spitters. So here's my 2 cents : What about giving a special ability to "befriended" spiders? There's so many possibility : Avoid attack based on rng, Slow down enemy, reduce enemy's attack damage, AoE attack or defense buff, so on. This rework really improve Webber, but it feels like missing great opportunity of interesting combat experience.

After seeing a what 12 spitters can do I can support this they melt things as good as bunnymen...

[Electroely]

1 hour ago, HeatAndRun said:

There's currently no reason to use spiders other than nurses or spitters.

Sure there is! Get a decent enough army of just regular spiders and you have a substantial DPS boost and meat shield. Especially with the latest patch increasing the number of befriended spiders from 2 per meat to 3.

I used to spend just 9 monster meat or so on an army before this patch and I was able to effortlessly kill many enemies like Treeguards, Spider Queens, Ewecus, Moose, you name it. Making my own army fight wild spiders also works for getting rid of the befriended spiders and getting a refund on the meat spent. I usually break even, but I think with this update I'll get monster meat than I spent.

[HowlVoid]

I keep refreshing youtube hoping someone will use spiders to kill toadstool and fuel weaver but no one has figured it out yet.

Just wondering what kinda crazy strat someone will come up with (IF it can even be done...)

Any combo of spiders just dies

[QuartzBeam]

24 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Sure there is! Get a decent enough army of just regular spiders and you have a substantial DPS boost and meat shield. Especially with the latest patch increasing the number of befriended spiders from 2 per meat to 3.

I used to spend just 9 monster meat or so on an army before this patch and I was able to effortlessly kill many enemies like Treeguards, Spider Queens, Ewecus, Moose, you name it. Making my own army fight wild spiders also works for getting rid of the befriended spiders and getting a refund on the meat spent. I usually break even, but I think with this update I'll get monster meat than I spent.

Yeah, regular spiders are fine cause they make for really cheap cannon fodder and they're virtually everywhere on the surface.

But Dangling Depth Dwellers have nothing to set them apart from Spider Warriors, except for an arguably cheaper Switcherdoodle recipe. And Cave Spiders don't fare much better, as their supposed defensive skills are largely ineffective against non-player enemies.

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

I keep refreshing youtube hoping someone will use spiders to kill toadstool and fuel weaver but no one has figured it out yet.

Just wondering what kinda crazy strat someone will come up with (IF it can even be done...)

sorry my contract doesn't allow me to play webber

[QuartzBeam]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

I keep refreshing youtube hoping someone will use spiders to kill toadstool and fuel weaver but no one has figured it out yet.

Just wondering what kinda crazy strat someone will come up with (IF it can even be done...)

Any combo of spiders just dies

Fuelweaver will always be a tough one to crack, cause just about everything it does sends mobs into a panic. And Toadstool has the capability to deal a lot of damage really quick, which can easily override the nurses' healing abilities.

But in day-to-day combat, a decent spider horde with a few nurses is functionally immortal.

[HowlVoid]

17 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

sorry my contract doesn't allow me to play webber

Cough twice if abigail is standing behind you

16 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

Fuelweaver will always be a tough one to crack, cause just about everything it does sends mobs into a panic. And Toadstool has the capability to deal a lot of damage really quick, which can easily override the nurses' healing abilities.

But in day-to-day combat, a decent spider horde with a few nurses is functionally immortal.

I saw a video where someone made a "healing box" by making nurses aggro onto each other. I wonder if there are more techs we can do with nurses. 

[QuartzBeam]

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I saw a video where someone made a "healing box" by making nurses aggro onto each other. I wonder if there are more techs we can do with nurses. 

The healing box thing seems awfully... limiting.

A far simple approach is to carry around a lureplant bulb. Plant it, make the spiders attack it so you get the heals, then pick up the bulb again.

[HowlVoid]

Just now, QuartzBeam said:

The healing box thing seems awfully... limiting.

A far simple approach is to carry around a lureplant bulb. Plant it, make the spiders attack it so you get the heals, then pick up the bulb again.

Oh that's smart. Cant you just pull spiders back before toadstool jumps? Then you can use the lureplant to heal at a safe distance.

A big group may be hard but maybe a few spiders is manageable. 

[deemo_]

8 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Oh that's smart. Cant you just pull spiders back before toadstool jumps? Then you can use the lureplant to heal at a safe distance.

A big group may be hard but maybe a few spiders is manageable. 

Toadstool has so much AOE to deal with the spiders that it just wouldn’t be worth trying. Coupled with the fact that there’s quite a bit to think about when fighting Toad to begin with, using spiders would only make the fight more difficult if you want them to be kept alive.

Even if you’re dead set on it, his stomp comes out so quick that pulling the spiders back would require you to call them before he starts it, which would be really annoying and stop the spiders from doing any meaningful damage.

I’d love to see someone do it anyway though.

[HowlVoid]

19 minutes ago, deemo_ said:

Toadstool has so much AOE to deal with the spiders that it just wouldn’t be worth trying. Coupled with the fact that there’s quite a bit to think about when fighting Toad to begin with, using spiders would only make the fight more difficult if you want them to be kept alive.

Even if you’re dead set on it, his stomp comes out so quick that pulling the spiders back would require you to call them before he starts it, which would be really annoying and stop the spiders from doing any meaningful damage.

I’d love to see someone do it anyway though.

Someone did it with bishops ( I think it was lankhnish?) and they survived because of their range attack. Do spitters have less range? What if you box them in so they don't get closer (range permitting that is)?

Wish I could spawn stuff in to test but I'm on console...

[QuartzBeam]

7 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Someone did it with bishops ( I think it was lankhnish?) and they survived because of their range attack. Do spitters have less range? What if you box them in so they don't get closer (range permitting that is)?

Wish I could spawn stuff in to test but I'm on console...

Going off tuning values, Bishop's attack range is 6 units (1.5 tiles) and Spitter's attack range is 5 units (1.25 tiles).

Problem is Spitters move slightly closer to their target every time they do their ranged attack, so you'd have to use walls... which Toadstool's ground pound could easily break.

Btw, I've been really warming up to Shattered Spiders. Their spike attack might be somewhat inaccurate, but if a mob has a big hitbox, they can be hit by multiple spikes at once.

[BiddoBams]

How about making it so Depths Dwellers can create temporary cobweb turfs or something during combat? Since they're the only spiders you actually see using their silky bits. (I could imagine this being annoying for non-webber players in coop, however) As for cave spiders, they could just simply have a short-duration taunt that they can use, even when hidden. 

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Ashkain said:

How about making it so Depths Dwellers can create temporary cobweb turfs or something during combat? Since they're the only spiders you actually see using their silky bits. (I could imagine this being annoying for non-webber players in coop, however) As for cave spiders, they could just simply have a short-duration taunt that they can use, even when hidden. 

actually spitters spit silk at you.

 

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Cough twice if abigail is standing behind you

I saw a video where someone made a "healing box" by making nurses aggro onto each other. I wonder if there are more techs we can do with nurses. 

While it's not for fuel weaver or toadstool here are some examples of things you can do with just nurses if your curious(skip towards the end)

 

[CaRat]

3 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

 

Btw, I've been really warming up to Shattered Spiders. Their spike attack might be somewhat inaccurate, but if a mob has a big hitbox, they can be hit by multiple spikes at once.

Shattered spiders are great for boss dps excluding fly, beequeen, and water bosses. Aside from those shattered spider can hurt quite alot I believe I am very close to figuring out how to kill bearger and toad with spiders. 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, CaRat said:

Shattered spiders are great for boss dps excluding fly, beequeen, and water bosses. Aside from those shattered spider can hurt quite alot I believe I am very close to figuring out how to kill bearger and toad with spiders. 

Yea people are really sleeping on them especially since alot don't realize their ranged attacks hit twice one on hit and second on explosion which is aoe damage.

[Baark0]

Cave spiders: good for tanking ancient guardian hits, also have one of the faster attack speeds of spiders

Shattered spiders: same attack speed as cave spiders, with 5 extra bite damage, and a ranged attack that can do 140 damage if they summon the max amount of spikes and each one hits (the initial hit and the explosion after, not at all practical, but for a non boss enemy, being able to do 140 damage is pretty insane, for reference, fuelweaver does 100 damage, and the celestial champions strongest attack does 125 damage)

Warrior and dwellers: warrior switcherdoodles are pretty cheap, and require easy to farm resources, while dwellers are incredibly plentiful in the labyrinth, meaning you can amass an army of them very quickly, which can help for clearing the ruins or killing toadstool if you have a couple nurses to heal them up (a maxed out misery toadstool does 300 damage, so most spiders will be able to tank at least 1 hit)

9 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I keep refreshing youtube hoping someone will use spiders to kill toadstool and fuel weaver but no one has figured it out yet.

Just wondering what kinda crazy strat someone will come up with (IF it can even be done...)

Any combo of spiders just dies

gonna start looking into this, it feel like really shouldnt be that hard

[Baark0]

10 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I keep refreshing youtube hoping someone will use spiders to kill toadstool and fuel weaver but no one has figured it out yet.

Just wondering what kinda crazy strat someone will come up with (IF it can even be done...)

Any combo of spiders just dies

Fuelweaver done with spiders, I'll upload a video showing the attempt when I get it. Spiders do more harm then good imo, fw makes them panic very often, and using them prevents weather pain usage, or your army will turn on you, meaning you have to kill shadows with annoying dst targetting

I tried toad, dont think its possible to use spiders for the whole fight due to frog hop, but using them before then speeds up the fight dramatically.

 

[Baark0]

11 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I keep refreshing youtube hoping someone will use spiders to kill toadstool and fuel weaver but no one has figured it out yet.

Just wondering what kinda crazy strat someone will come up with (IF it can even be done...)

Any combo of spiders just dies

Read the description if you want to know about the lack of audio/my overall thoughts on the fight.

 

[JJ0264]

Black Spiders: default

Yellow Spiders: have longest range jump

White Spiders: can short jump + are immune to screaming + sleeping effects (buff)

Grey Spiders: shoot glass spikes + short range aoe bite (buff)

Purple Spiders: have armored shells + mobs attack these spiders over others (tweak)

Blue Spiders: have a range attack + like to keep there distance unlike before (tweak)

Orange Spiders: can heal every spider

Cyan Spiders: can swim, attacking applies 5-10 wetness which can combo with electric damage (guessing)

 

This is starting to sound like Pikmin crossover