Is Walter weak, or do I just not get him?

[BeeClops]

7 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Don't get technical :P

A blow dart is a weapon that is made up of a dart and a cylindrical vessel trough which the dart is blown. Basically, out of the 4 blow dart weapons the electric blow dart is the best one. Didn't think I had to explain that... 

 

Blowdarts are the better darts, by far. You mostly want blowdarts for late game max dps, blowdarts grant you a much higher dps than electric darts. Also, if there is one type of feather I always have excess of, that's saffron from deconstructing all the napsacks. They are the easiest type of feathers to farm, if only they we're usefull  .

So for that job, Wickerbottom is the clear choice, there are a few extremely efficient setups for azure feathers. But Walter can do it from day 1, I don't think anyone claims Walter is the better feather-farmer.

[YumoS]

He is a support character. Dst is a multiplayer game and he comes pretty handy by supporting the main DPS characters. You can’t expect that every character works perfectly if you play single in a multiplayer game. Every character needs to be unique in my opinion and offer different play styles. If not there wouldn’t be any reason to implement them.

[ShadowDuelist]

From my personal tests Walter is very good early game for fast exploration, and it’s very good to rush a bunch of things if you don’t mind using his perks for cheesing. I think this is the best video showcasing his potential:

Spoiler

 

Other than that he has an okay niche of gathering gold and summoning Krampii early game (the setup of a couple of scarecrow next to PK), an okay way to stunlock shadow creatures and a few bosses, and he’s a really decent character for the very late game “just building” time

Spoiler

Woby gives a ton of extra space, which can also be paired with a Krampus sack and Chester. The fact that he doesn’t loose sanity passively just removes one stat to control over time.

So overall he is not a terrible character , I think what feels lacking is his late game slingshot potential. From what I’ve noticed the magic pellets just don’t really work for the late game: too expensive for a tiny advantage over just making and using an ice staff like any other character. Slow pellets are too expensive and have only niche uses. 

The damaging rounds are fine I think, you are supposed to evolve your game towards other damage sources like darts, dark swords or an ornery beefalo, the same way Wigfrid’s spears eventually become redundant. And without any other pellet to provide utility, past the early game your slingshot will most likely go to a chest and never be seen again.

I think that the slingshot’s purpose in the late game should be an AOE crowd control thing, like his freezing, and slow rounds should explode on impact and deal a small AOE of the effect. For the early game the poop pellets should provide a much stronger effect of crowd control too.

So according to my view you’d still deal damage with other sources, but use your slingshot to do something nobody else could do, like freezing packs of hounds and dealing one on one with them, slowing down groups of splumonkeys, etc.

Technically you can do this now, but with the slingshot being so slow + the magic pellets being so expensive, and hitting one target each shot, it’s just not worth using your time to slow one hound when the other 8 will catch up on you. But if your good timed shot slowed (or froze) 4 nearby hounds in one shot, that you purposely clumped together to make the most of your AOE, then things suddenly become more interesting...

[HowlVoid]

6 hours ago, BeeClops said:

Blowdarts are the better darts, by far. You mostly want blowdarts for late game max dps, blowdarts grant you a much higher dps than electric darts. Also, if there is one type of feather I always have excess of, that's saffron from deconstructing all the napsacks. They are the easiest type of feathers to farm, if only they we're usefull  .

So for that job, Wickerbottom is the clear choice, there are a few extremely efficient setups for azure feathers. But Walter can do it from day 1, I don't think anyone claims Walter is the better feather-farmer.

Electric darts do 50 more damage in rain its not really up for debate. Sure you may have to wait for rain but there is an easy way to influence the weather with a telelocator staff. The amount of feathers that can be obtained with the method I posted also gives you a better feather to bird ratio than killing any other kind of bird proving more worth while late game. Not sure how you got more dps? Its 100 damage on a blow dart vs 150 damage on a electric dart in rain. 

Yes, I know wicker is the best in that front. 

[Does]

Walter's alright, the biggest issue with him imo is that his advantages are a lot more focused on QoL and being able to safespot enemies while his main con is having an absolutely terrible disadvantage state. He's an excellent supporter like YumoS said, but he doesn't really change meta at all which is why he feels kinda weak as a result. I've never really had a situation where I think "I want to pick Walter so I can do X better".

Walter is better than an ice staff I suppose. He gets damage and equal amounts of freezing by making round versus an ice staff without the sanity drain to boot.

[Mysterious box]

56 minutes ago, Does said:

Walter's alright, the biggest issue with him imo is that his advantages are a lot more focused on QoL and being able to safespot enemies while his main con is having an absolutely terrible disadvantage state. He's an excellent supporter like YumoS said, but he doesn't really change meta at all which is why he feels kinda weak as a result. I've never really had a situation where I think "I want to pick Walter so I can do X better".

Walter is better than an ice staff I suppose. He gets damage and equal amounts of freezing by making round versus an ice staff without the sanity drain to boot.

Actually it's worse because because he fires freeze rounds slower and has half the uses for the same gem cost. Which doesn't seem like much since it deals double the freeze rate but any enemy that requires a odd number of freezes wastes a full shot per and thanks to his sanity mechanic it's usually more worth it to use the staff for him too. The only advantage his freeze rounds have is being able to stack in a single slot. The issue I have with Walter's slingshot is it's uses are either very niche and can be done with other characters or just straight cheese

7 hours ago, YumoS said:

He is a support character. Dst is a multiplayer game and he comes pretty handy by supporting the main DPS characters. You can’t expect that every character works perfectly if you play single in a multiplayer game. Every character needs to be unique in my opinion and offer different play styles. If not there wouldn’t be any reason to implement them.

The think him being a support character is true but I don't think his slingshot really fulfills the role of support any better than a follower or normal equipment does. His other abilities are good supports tho.

On 3/27/2021 at 11:06 AM, inferjus4 said:

Freddo Films has similar view on this character - a big mashup of perks that do not create anyone specific. He is supposed to be pioneer, but what he has is some underwhelming slingshot, Beefaloo and Chester equivalent and the only interesting thing about him - he loses sanity when he gets hit. How are those things related to him being a pioneer? I don't know.

He's not a pioneer he's a boy scout having multiple talents makes sense for a boy scout you don't become one by doing only one thing. I never really understood this arguement.

[Mike23Ua]

Some characters are good at boss fights, some characters are good at killing birds, rabbits, Moleworm, butterflies etc in a single hit.

Walter fits into the second category, each character in this game has niche role they need to fulfill, something they excel best and fail worst at.

People cry Wendy OP please Nerf but there’s no denying Wendy struggles the most of any character including Wes when it comes to fighting Insanity monsters.

Walter struggles with boss fights but is the single best character in the game to one shot kill birds with.. then trade those meat morsels in to pig king to literally renew his ammo supply.

[Does]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Actually it's worse because because he fires freeze rounds slower and has half the uses for the same gem cost. Which doesn't seem like much since it deals double the freeze rate but any enemy that requires a odd number of freezes wastes a full shot per and thanks to his sanity mechanic it's usually more worth it to use the staff for him too. The only advantage his freeze rounds have is being able to stack in a single slot. The issue I have with Walter's slingshot is it's uses are either very niche and can be done with other characters or just straight cheese

The think him being a support character is true but I don't think his slingshot really fulfills the role of support any better than a follower or normal equipment does. His other abilities are good supports tho.

Fair points on the frost shots, guess he is kind of pigeonholed into pigeon hunter / cheeselord (and you can use a Houndius for pretty much the entirely same purposes). I suppose the issue is then that he doesn't really have any character-defining trait and Freddo Films is kind of right.

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Walter struggles with boss fights but is the single best character in the game to one shot kill birds with.. then trade those meat morsels in to pig king to literally renew his ammo supply.

In terms of farming, wouldn't Wicker be best in that situation? Walter would be great for passively snagging morsels over time, but I feel like the ol' Book + Sleepytime / Flute would probably outclass him in terms once you get the basics of a base together. 

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, Does said:

Fair points on the frost shots, guess he is kind of pigeonholed into pigeon hunter / cheeselord (and you can use a Houndius for pretty much the entirely same purposes). I suppose the issue is then that he doesn't really have any character-defining trait and Freddo Films is kind of right.

In terms of farming, wouldn't Wicker be best in that situation? Walter would be great for passively snagging morsels over time, but I feel like the ol' Book + Sleepytime / Flute would probably outclass him in terms once you get the basics of a base together. 

Wickers books are probably going to get a heavy Nerf either by making them less useful, splitting them up into separate books, or my preferred option: Retaining all their power but adding more crafting costs so that power feels like it was “earned.” She used to be able to instant grow an entire screen of crops and trees etc.. now- She can grow a maximum of 10 crops at a time: it is a HEAVY Nerf when she used to be able do this:

Spoiler

It is unfair to judge Walter based on not yet reworked characters.

[Maxil20]

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Not sure how you got more dps? Its 100 damage on a blow dart vs 150 damage on a electric dart in rain. 

Volt goat chaud froid, most likely. Granted, that would be pretty insane to just eat a chaud froid for things like hounds, but for bosses it makes more sense.

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

People cry Wendy OP please Nerf but there’s no denying Wendy struggles the most of any character including Wes when it comes to fighting Insanity monsters.

She literally has exclusive sanity stations.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

27 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

She literally has exclusive sanity stations.

and 200 sanity+less sanity drain so she cant be insane if she wears top hat the 2nd easier sanity head gear in the game (and even easier thanks to opgail)

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

She literally has exclusive sanity stations.

Which don’t help her at all in ruins/against the new shadow Vs Gashalt war.

I mean.. at this point you should just say there’s options to turn off Shadow Monsters.

Doesnt make them any less her biggest weakness.

[me real life]

21 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

As for everyone saying that he is good a gathering blowdarts:

The best method for gathering the best blowdart does not even include Walter at all.

This is a sandbox game, why can there only be a singular "best" method for doing something? Walter is nice for gathering feathers for darts, the fact that there's another option for gathering feathers doesn't invalidate that.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wickers books are probably going to get a heavy Nerf either by making them less useful, splitting them up into separate books, or my preferred option: Retaining all their power but adding more crafting costs so that power feels like it was “earned.” She used to be able to instant grow an entire screen of crops and trees etc.. now- She can grow a maximum of 10 crops at a time: it is a HEAVY Nerf when she used to be able do this:

  Reveal hidden contents

It is unfair to judge Walter based on not yet reworked characters.

Technically wurt with a boomerang can hunt birds just as fast as Walter can by using 1 merm since they'll attack it faster than they can react

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Some characters are good at boss fights, some characters are good at killing birds, rabbits, Moleworm, butterflies etc in a single hit.

Walter fits into the second category, each character in this game has niche role they need to fulfill, something they excel best and fail worst at.

People cry Wendy OP please Nerf but there’s no denying Wendy struggles the most of any character including Wes when it comes to fighting Insanity monsters.

Walter struggles with boss fights but is the single best character in the game to one shot kill birds with.. then trade those meat morsels in to pig king to literally renew his ammo supply.

Wendy does not struggle vs shadow creatures she merely requires more hits which is down to player skill much like dealing with depth worms or hound waves but in a lower amount.

4 hours ago, Does said:

Fair points on the frost shots, guess he is kind of pigeonholed into pigeon hunter / cheeselord (and you can use a Houndius for pretty much the entirely same purposes). I suppose the issue is then that he doesn't really have any character-defining trait and Freddo Films is kind of right.

In terms of farming, wouldn't Wicker be best in that situation? Walter would be great for passively snagging morsels over time, but I feel like the ol' Book + Sleepytime / Flute would probably outclass him in terms once you get the basics of a base together. 

We'll have to agree to disagree here just because his perks aren't strong doesn't mean their not character defining

His campfire stories, portable tent, and his skill at cooking over fires reflect his boy scout nature. Where as the contrast between his lack of a sense of danger and fear of being hurt helps represent his innocent nature.

[Does]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wickers books are probably going to get a heavy Nerf either by making them less useful, splitting them up into separate books, or my preferred option: Retaining all their power but adding more crafting costs so that power feels like it was “earned.” She used to be able to instant grow an entire screen of crops and trees etc.. now- She can grow a maximum of 10 crops at a time: it is a HEAVY Nerf when she used to be able do this:

  Reveal hidden contents

It is unfair to judge Walter based on not yet reworked characters.

I feel like it's also somewhat unfair to judge him based on the assumption of a rework nerfing a character as well. As is currently, he's not "the best" at it, and that's simply what I'm saying.

Also wait, wouldn't Wes have the hardest time with shadow creatures as a given? Abigail can't target them but will prevent the big concern which is other enemies piling on you at the same time, to say nothing of Wes having less health and less resistance against the sanity drain you'll have when fighting shadows compared to Wendy. Damagewise I'm pretty sure they're equals?

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

We'll have to agree to disagree here just because his perks aren't strong doesn't mean their not character defining

His campfire stories, portable tent, and his skill at cooking over fires reflect his boy scout nature. Where as the contrast between his lack of a sense of danger and fear of being hurt helps represent his innocent nature.

That's totally true, I kinda got caught up with character-defining being more like in the mechanical sense. In terms of personality it all fits together really well for him.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Sunset Skye said:

This is a sandbox game, why can there only be a singular "best" method for doing something? Walter is nice for gathering feathers for darts, the fact that there's another option for gathering feathers doesn't invalidate that.

This is also a forum. "Best" is simply a way to rate a strategy. The thread is currently discussing Walter and strategies that best employ him. It would be a different matter if I went into your personal game and dictated what is "best" for you to do. Discussing the most optimal path is completely normal to do on a forum so lets not forget that, some of us get enjoyment in knowing we are doing the most "meta" method available. That is also a valid way to play the game.

Sandbox games are notorious for attracting gamers who are fixated on optimization. Games like dont starve, factorio and monster hunter to name a few.

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Volt goat chaud froid, most likely. Granted, that would be pretty insane to just eat a chaud froid for things like hounds, but for bosses it makes more sense.

Ah ok, makes sense. Sometimes I can get tunnel vision when Im talking about a character, plus, Im not a fan of the floridpostern. 

[BeeClops]

17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Electric darts do 50 more damage in rain its not really up for debate. Sure you may have to wait for rain but there is an easy way to influence the weather with a telelocator staff. The amount of feathers that can be obtained with the method I posted also gives you a better feather to bird ratio than killing any other kind of bird proving more worth while late game. Not sure how you got more dps? Its 100 damage on a blow dart vs 150 damage on a electric dart in rain. 

Yes, I know wicker is the best in that front. 

yes I'm taking choid froid into account, you have to when you talk about dps imo. For a normal dmg character max electric dart dmg is 180/dart, while for blowdart it's 300/dart. A pretty big difference, and of course if it's not raining the blowdart deals a little more dmg as well. 

[HowlVoid]

4 hours ago, BeeClops said:

yes I'm taking choid froid into account, you have to when you talk about dps imo. For a normal dmg character max electric dart dmg is 180/dart, while for blowdart it's 300/dart. A pretty big difference, and of course if it's not raining the blowdart deals a little more dmg as well. 

As I told someone else I forget about choid froid. I still think electric darts are better if you consider output per bird. A bird will have 5-6 feather guaranteed. Thats 150× 5-6 blow darts for catching them and leaving them in a bird cage. It slow initially but once you have a rotation going it will be better in the long run, for anyone who isn't wicker anyways. Id argue choid froid should then be used with saffron feathers for quantity over quality (not mention its only 10 damage less). On top of that gold is easy to obtain in very,very large amounts thanks to the ruins. You can find yourself running short on hound teeth if you use a couple hundred per year on bosses. 

[gbBaku]

Thanks for the many great input guys!

In case anyone is interested, in the end I decided to put down Walter. I got hyped for a bit for the bird hunt potential, but after sleeping on it decided that's not enough for me. In almost any other world, I can already amass blow dards with an ice staff or even a boomerang with just as much difficulty. He has some small upsides for sure, but nothing worth a character slot for me.

I also don't need the Walter to be the best at anything. It doesn't matter for me that Wicker is better at bird farming. Simply him being better than most characters at something would do it for me, but he is not even that much better at hunting birds.

I will instead try Woodie and Wortox in the near future. I'm sure they are more fit to my playstyle and have more fun with me. It's a pity though, I'm leaving probably one of the best worlds I've ever been on behind, just because I started with Walter there. Will not delete it though, as he may get an update later.

Also, I know you can change characters, I just prefer not to.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, gbBaku said:

I'm leaving probably one of the best worlds I've ever been on behind, just because I started with Walter there. Will not delete it though, as he may get an update later.

in the 'Esc' menu you have the option to start a new world with the same map if it works for you

[gbBaku]

Did not know that, thanks!

[Articestone]

Just use walter to farm slurtle slime with poop pellets