is wurt good?

[HowlVoid]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Merms can chop and mine 24/7 for little cost not just a little portion of the day with sanity at cost

Not nearly with the same amount of efficiency. Not even close. Bearger alone will out chop dozens of merms and you dont need to keep feeding him. 

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Bunnymen are more expensive unless you hammer every hourse (i hope in a private server and not in pubs) and doesnt like monster characters. Wurt can make the merm cosplay so everybody can befriend them and will not aggro other player if they are hired

Bunnymen are not expensive at all in comparison to pig houses . And why would you not hammer the houses? In most pubs people dont venture into the caves at all. They are a great early hound defence. 

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

As any other character, even monster ones, you can feed monster meat to pigs, you only need to kite to do it. Another way is to make houses arround a bait or an iceflingomatic and farm them in full moon (pigs go out of their houses if it get on fire). Also, with an army that can be hired with that easy honey you mentioned, you dont need that much armor even if you dont know how to kite

As I said very early game. Id rather not have to do all the set up you mentioned for the 5-8 pig helmets i need to fight dragonfly and keep the pig skin from destroying their houses for a future farm.

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

The 1st king takes time, the 2nd is easier since you already have planted the kelp needed for it and only takes arround 6 berries/kelp to fed a king and last a minimum of 4 days

Needless management for semi useless buffs. The extra hunger is the only useful stat increase and even that becomes obsolete after killing bee queen . You forgot the fact you need to rebuild your merm houses all over again. And what are you going to use them against? Hopefully not toadstool. 

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Im with you that warly is way more powerful but winona is just a wilson that crafts quickly and have expensive aoe hounius like structure

Catapults are extremely useful (farms, bosses) and are far less management than merms. Gems are laughably easy to amass with a hound farm. Im also not comparing these characters based on power but late term gameplay reward which is argued to be wurts niche (on the basis of no switching). 

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Using pig king, when the portal is already upgraded, only takes 1 purple gem and 1 moon rock and you can trade all the wires you want. As i said in previous comments, gold is only a problem for scaled chest, wurt doesnt use that much gold since the merms do most of the work

If you are using the floridpostern as an argument to remove a downside.... then Wurt distinctive features become even more irrelevant. At that point you're better off using someone else. 

Mining/deforesting: bosses/ forest stalker

I have mined an entire large rock biome in one day and a half with bearger. 

[DinsdaleP]

48 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

1. The lack of football helmets early game which I burn through very quickly. Feeding pigs monster meats gets me my quick helmets.

Wurt, thanks to her early game gathering perks (since cut stone and boards from pig houses quickly get used up by crockpots, chests and such), is probably the easiest character to set up a huge pig farm with, which everyone should do anyway - though she does have to do it at night.

[HowlVoid]

16 minutes ago, DinsdaleP said:

Wurt, thanks to her early game gathering perks (since cut stone and boards from pig houses quickly get used up by crockpots, chests and such), is probably the easiest character to set up a huge pig farm with, which everyone should do anyway - though she does have to do it at night.

Mind clarifying what you mean by early game gathering perks? I'm fairly certain she doesn't have any. The easiest character to set up pig houses with is woody or maxwell who DO have early game gathering perks. If you're talking about saving resources then that would be wormwood who can feed himself solely on carrots at 0 cost for three seasons. 

 

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Souper said:

I'm no game designer, and my suggestions would be laughable. All I can say is that her upsides are underwhelming for something that seems like it would be much more beneficial based on her design. Spawning the merm king doesn't really provide anything incredibly useful, IMO.

But then look at something like Wigfrid's helmets. From the get go, she can create extremely cheap helmets that replace the need for pig skin for football helmets.

Wurt's merm helpers are kinda just a lackluster version of Maxwell's puppets that require more resources.

Webber, at the moment, is just a simpler version of Wurt without the downsides, really.

She just feels like she's lacking definitive features. I still think she's good though. Just out shined.

The thing tho is if you remove the upkeep which if you do the math on loyalty timers is very generous for merms you'll find they're better than Maxwell's shadows in every other way. There's webber the only reason someone can say his spiders are better is because of their drops which means they're not good for being webber but for their drops so you could also say wendy is better than wurt by that logic because your not looking at their follower potiental which is what is supposed to be their selling point. From what I've seen the reason she's less popular in some aspects is due to people wanting to put in the minimum effort for results which I guess I can't fault. 

Sure wurt is faster than Maxwell at resource gathering but maxwell doesn't have a continuous cost. Webber's followers are weaker and can't do as much as most followers but webber players usually use them for spider wars and hound defenses which is different from what you'd use merms for.

13 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Mind clarifying what you mean by early game gathering perks? I'm fairly certain she doesn't have any. The easiest character to set up pig houses with is woody or maxwell who DO have early game gathering perks. If you're talking about saving resources then that would be wormwood who can feed himself solely on carrots at 0 cost for three seasons. 

 

Swamp exists in the early game and there are merms there.

[DinsdaleP]

Just now, HowlVoid said:

Mind clarifying what you mean by early game gathering perks? I fairly certain she doesn't have any. The easiest character to set up pig houses with is woody or maxwell who DO have early game gathering perks. If youre talking about saving resources then that would be wormwood who can feed himself solely on carrots at 0 cost for three seasons.

craftsmerm huts are piss easy to set up (generally using boards from hammered down pig houses), and even if you don't bother with it, there'll be merms you can recruit in the marsh biome. throw them a few bits of food, then set 'em on the nearest forest or rocky biome and watch it more or less disappear. 

played a lot of Woodie before switching to Wurt, she is a way better gatherer. Woodie has no real advantages towards mining (besides saving you pickaxe durability, at the low, low cost of health and sanity...), while with Wurt and 3-4 merms, the only limiting factor will be how fast you can pick up things.

"but Bearger!" Bearger appears in the second autumn, about 10 hours into a world. by that time, you've used up at least 200+ logs unless your base is still a dump, and that's a very conservative estimate, not counting if you wanna go fishing for a few scorching sunfish or lunar island. Bearger is a great seasonal worker, but he's a bit late to the party.

[.]

10 hours ago, viberr said:

aren't you the guy who always said that wurt sucked

Yes I'm! 

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, DinsdaleP said:

craftsmerm huts are piss easy to set up (generally using boards from hammered down pig houses), and even if you don't bother with it, there'll be merms you can recruit in the marsh biome. throw them a few bits of food, then set 'em on the nearest forest or rocky biome and watch it more or less disappear. 

That sounds good in theory but I don't see the practicality of it. You use the initial wooden boards to manage the merms to gather an initial amount of boards at the cost of food and time. If you see it as an investment by the time your investment has payed off bearger has already spawned. What happens if the swamp biome is in a suboptimal place on the map? How much time do you waste when they die or are aggroed? I rather spend my time elsewhere.

Quote

played a lot of Woodie before switching to Wurt, she is a way better gatherer. Woodie has no real advantages towards mining (besides saving you pickaxe durability, at the low, low cost of health and sanity...), while with Wurt and 3-4 merms, the only limiting factor will be how fast you can pick up things.

Perhaps, but other than gathering what other uses do they have? Other than killing single target bosses, of course. 

Quote

"but Bearger!" Bearger appears in the second autumn, about 10 hours into a world. by that time, you've used up at least 200+ logs unless your base is still a dump, and that's a very conservative estimate, not counting if you wanna go fishing for a few scorching sunfish or lunar island. Bearger is a great seasonal worker, but he's a bit late to the party.

Deerclops exists too. I get my initial wood from deerclops after spending the first half of autumn in the ruins and the other half setting up base and killing dragonfly. In spring I kill the shadow pieces and bee queen (bee queen is a one time cost of 6 bee keeper hats and 3 marble suits) and once summer arrives im back in caves for bunnymen. I dont know why you are gathering so much wood but that is probably where our playstyles diverge. I can guarantee you my base does not look like a dump and will have all the needed necessities (5 crockpots, chests, bird cage, etc). Then again between morning stars and scaled furnaces my wood consumption may be far less than yours.  

[Toros]

4 hours ago, Lbphero said:

it'd be awful nice to be able to gather the kelp without having to get the stuff for a boat, but otherwise, i kind of feel this is a bit needless...isn't her being able to just jump off of boats with no penalty enough...?

I believe the answer is no.

Realistically, why would you ever just jump off a boat?  It’s a nice failsafe if your boat breaks, but boats take a large amount of resources.  Abandoning it in the middle of nowhere makes no sense.

Also, Wurt is a fish monster creature released close to when oceans in DST became able to be explored, and it would’ve made a lot of sense given she’s a fish that she would have some advantage in sailing the ocean.

Problem is that since she can’t swim (keep in mind, hounds can swim and skittersquid can walk) and is a vegetarian she’s not particularly good at exploring the ocean and sailing doesn’t synergize with her base-oriented playstyle.  Until very recently, she even lost sanity from wet gear.

The “Reign of Runts” mod has a Moose/Goose character who can run on water and take full actions (but accumulates wetness fairly quickly and will drown if they reach 100 wetness) and it’s honestly super useful all the time.

-While outlining the map, they can simply go over inlets, shortening the route.  

-On a boat they can run off and grab ocean resources without having to turn the boat to bring the edge there.  

-The lunar archipelago they can explore without having to slowly maneuver the boat around.

-Like goose form, they can use a straight route when visiting pig king/glommer statue.

Woodie’s goose form is useful for the speed, but the primary use is to get to lunar island without a boat even without the ability to grab ocean resources from the water.

DST is a game where exploring is a huge part of the gameplay.  Having a character who could explore the new ocean content even in a limited fashion would’ve encouraged people to explore it more and earlier.

Wurt is by far the most suited to having an actual swimming ability since she knows how to swim in the ocean and would be the most suited to it of all the survivors.

Yet she doesn’t, and I think if total complexity was a concern most wurt players would be happy to remove the lackluster merm king mechanics in exchange for the ability to swim freely.

[Ohan]

Removing merm king in favor of making wurt walk on water has to be one of the craziest suggestions ive seen on these forums and thats saying something ... 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Toros said:

believe the answer is no.

He is right.  She can jump into the sea/sink with no penalty

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Toros said:

I believe the answer is no.

Realistically, why would you ever just jump off a boat?  It’s a nice failsafe if your boat breaks, but boats take a large amount of resources.  Abandoning it in the middle of nowhere makes no sense.

Also, Wurt is a fish monster creature released close to when oceans in DST became able to be explored, and it would’ve made a lot of sense given she’s a fish that she would have some advantage in sailing the ocean.

Problem is that since she can’t swim (keep in mind, hounds can swim and skittersquid can walk) and is a vegetarian she’s not particularly good at exploring the ocean and sailing doesn’t synergize with her base-oriented playstyle.  Until very recently, she even lost sanity from wet gear.

The “Reign of Runts” mod has a Moose/Goose character who can run on water and take full actions (but accumulates wetness fairly quickly and will drown if they reach 100 wetness) and it’s honestly super useful all the time.

-While outlining the map, they can simply go over inlets, shortening the route.  

-On a boat they can run off and grab ocean resources without having to turn the boat to bring the edge there.  

-The lunar archipelago they can explore without having to slowly maneuver the boat around.

-Like goose form, they can use a straight route when visiting pig king/glommer statue.

Woodie’s goose form is useful for the speed, but the primary use is to get to lunar island without a boat even without the ability to grab ocean resources from the water.

DST is a game where exploring is a huge part of the gameplay.  Having a character who could explore the new ocean content even in a limited fashion would’ve encouraged people to explore it more and earlier.

Wurt is by far the most suited to having an actual swimming ability since she knows how to swim in the ocean and would be the most suited to it of all the survivors.

Yet she doesn’t, and I think if total complexity was a concern most wurt players would be happy to remove the lackluster merm king mechanics in exchange for the ability to swim freely.

I'll give you this ocean content is some of most annoying content for me as wurt since aside from lunar the sea is mainly meat based with no real advantages to a prolonged stay for her and I do wish she did have a useful ocean perk her abandoned ship perk isn't useful as your not going to drown once you understand the sea content and the merm king is kinda a let down but what she does she does well.

[douan33]

She is S tier, she can do what Maxwell and Woodie can, but better. She profits from the newest update the most and with enough merms you can do more damage than catapults per second.

 

I am not saying that she is the ONLY S tier. Wolfgang still can gather everything for free as said here

14 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

because she doesnt have x2 damage, 300 hp, ridiculous speed and sanity for almost free?

I relatively disagree with this, but you get the point. (Because Wurt can reach more DPS and not even get involved with fights thanks to the best allies in the game, merms. Not to mention that Wurt benefits the most from sanity due to getting filled more from veggies; which includes cacti and kelps.)

 

If you think she is underpowered, I disagree. If nothing she is S tier.

[Toros]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

He is right.  She can jump into the sea/sink with no penalty

The question was “Is being able to drown/abandon ship with reduced penalty enough”.  It wasn’t “Can Wurt abandon ship/sink with reduced penalty”.

Factually untrue to say no penalty, because you still gain wetness and unless changed very recently, lose your hand slot item.  This is an obvious issue in winter.

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I'll give you this ocean content is some of most annoying content for me as wurt since aside from lunar the sea is mainly meat based with no real advantages to a prolonged stay for her and I do wish she did have a useful ocean perk her abandoned ship perk isn't useful as your not going to drown once you understand the sea content and the merm king is kinda a let down but what she does she does well.

This is why I don’t say Wurt is mechanically weak at all, but she feels like a missed opportunity to let a character explore the ocean and was added very close to the ability to sail the ocean.  As Wurt, why would I ever sail after getting the initial kelp and maybe a few hot/cold fish... and even that strategy is questionable when it comes to time efficiency.

[Souper]

I agree with others that it is extremely odd that she doesn't have the ability to swim. She is literally a fish character released in the middle of ocean-themed content, and doesn't offer anything having to do with the ocean. It's neat, I guess, that she can jump off a boat with no penalties... but no one really wants to do that.

Wortox is a demonic-ish imp with the ability to teleport. Super fun, and at least somewhat thematic. Wurt being able to swim would not only be fun as well, it would be incredibly thematic.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Souper said:

I agree with others that it is extremely odd that she doesn't have the ability to swim. She is literally a fish character released in the middle of ocean-themed content, and doesn't offer anything having to do with the ocean. It's neat, I guess, that she can jump off a boat with no penalties... but no one really wants to do that.

Wortox is a demonic-ish imp with the ability to teleport. Super fun, and at least somewhat thematic. Wurt being able to swim would not only be fun as well, it would be incredibly thematic.

Not sure the game will ever have swimming mechanics, though if it did.. I would want Woodie to be able to ferry players in water on his shoulders in Beaver mode.. (something that Wendy’s Quote about promising he would let her ride on his shoulders makes me want that.) Wurts inability to swim may be tied to her craftables.. if she was able to swim out and collect Kelps easily she would be able to some Mid-Late game Wurt stuff at a almost Game-Breaking pace.

At least in her current form she needs to build a raft and paddle around collecting.

Also if Wurt were made able to swim I would want Merm mobs to able to Swim period... as they stand now.. they pathfind to the edge of the land and walk endlessly in one spot trying to get home- which wouldn’t be a problem at all if they knew how to Swim across that stream blocking their way home.

But as it stands now... I’m thinking that maybe Merms don’t know HOW to Swim.. and that’s why they run in one spot unable to get home.

Klei updated Hounds to know how to swim, and bee’s to know how to fly over Water.. so it feels odd for Wurt to have an Abandon Ship perk... but for Merm mobs as a whole: To not know how to swim to get back home.

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Not sure the game will ever have swimming mechanics, though if it did.. I would want Woodie to be able to ferry players in water on his shoulders in Beaver mode.. (something that Wendy’s Quote about promising he would let her ride on his shoulders makes me want that.) Wurts inability to swim may be tied to her craftables.. if she was able to swim out and collect Kelps easily she would be able to some Mid-Late game Wurt stuff at a almost Game-Breaking pace.

At least in her current form she needs to build a raft and paddle around collecting.

Also if Wurt were made able to swim I would want Merm mobs to able to Swim period... as they stand now.. they pathfind to the edge of the land and walk endlessly in one spot trying to get home- which wouldn’t be a problem at all if they knew how to Swim across that stream blocking their way home.

But as it stands now... I’m thinking that maybe Merms don’t know HOW to Swim.. and that’s why they run in one spot unable to get home.

Klei updated Hounds to know how to swim, and bee’s to know how to fly over Water.. so it feels odd for Wurt to have an Abandon Ship perk... but for Merm mobs as a whole: To not know how to swim to get back home.

Wurt's qoute says otherwise tho it wouldn't be the first time her quotes lied to/mislead us lol. From my perspective I think a large part of the issue with merms is kiel never originally intended merms to be followers as such they're missing  key features that would make them easier to manage without mods such as names and hunger animations. This also leads to inconsistency in gameplay like merms dying if they fall in water, frogs being hostile despite wurt being respectful of them, wurt impling all merms can see and avoid tentacle spots but constantly walking on them etc. That being said I agree merms being able to swim would fix alot of the lost merms issue which is pretty big since part of merms advantage is taking them on long term trips.

 

7 hours ago, Toros said:

The question was “Is being able to drown/abandon ship with reduced penalty enough”.  It wasn’t “Can Wurt abandon ship/sink with reduced penalty”.

Factually untrue to say no penalty, because you still gain wetness and unless changed very recently, lose your hand slot item.  This is an obvious issue in winter.

This is why I don’t say Wurt is mechanically weak at all, but she feels like a missed opportunity to let a character explore the ocean and was added very close to the ability to sail the ocean.  As Wurt, why would I ever sail after getting the initial kelp and maybe a few hot/cold fish... and even that strategy is questionable when it comes to time efficiency.

I agree with you here I said it along time ago but the sea content we get tends to but worse for wurt than better overall despite her being a water character with the biggest blow to her playstyle still being her loss of fish stacking.

[Zima Blue]

She's ok! She's certainly not op, but not bad either. I'd say you should try to play with her, see if she matches your playstyle. I personally really like her, I think she's the cutest, but I hate playing with her lol 

[Intrepidpioneer]

On 1/16/2021 at 5:06 AM, Ohan said:

Removing merm king in favor of making wurt walk on water has to be one of the craziest suggestions ive seen on these forums and thats saying something ... 

As a Wurt player who never makes the merm king in favor of aggressive merms, I'd take that trade and regarding original poster's question: Wurt is good if you're willing to invest in building a merm village/kingdom and unless you don't mind supporting a greedy king or handing out disguises it's a lonely playstyle. To each their own.

[Mike23Ua]

14 minutes ago, Intrepidpioneer said:

As a Wurt player who never makes the merm king in favor of aggressive merms, I'd take that trade and regarding original poster's question: Wurt is good if you're willing to invest in building a merm village/kingdom and unless you don't mind supporting a greedy king or handing out disguises it's a lonely playstyle. To each their own.

Unfortunately some people build her Merm king (for what reason I haven’t a clue) but they don’t realize that when they DO That Merms become non-hostile, I have only built the Merm King once... every other time I prefer an Army of always hostile Merms towards anything that dares step foot in my swamp without gills or a clever disguise on.

It allows me to effectively “Noob proof” my base- and only players with insane skill will ever make it to my base alive.. which allows me to give out clever disguise to players I trust.. and keep out the ones I don’t trust.

Without a King- Merms attack Anything and I mean ANYTHING that comes near their property.. and players serious under-estimate the sheer power of a massive Army of Merms: Sure its a late game heavy investment playstyle: But I guarantee you watching your Merms smash everything in sight will leave a smile on your face.

#WorthIt.

[FairyInABottle]

As she is, I still build Merm King, but only for Merm Guards. If she didn't have them I'd just build Bunnymen+Pigs on Wormwood to cover night and day. I could really care less about the stat gains. Flat stat gains are boring to me and the main reason I don't like WX-78. That said, I'd be fine with King and Guards being removed in favor of something else.

I'd rather see her lean more into her natural Constant resident side. Maybe a character who could survive by foraging and baseless or craft unique equipment out of rarer monster drops. Like a backpack that slows spoilage of uncooked foods, to feed into her vegetarian side. Or a Merm queen crown that buffs followers.

[wons]

she's much better than walter that's for sure