frozist Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Hi Clay. I would like to ask you, have you thought about the idea to create multiplayer for Oxygen players? I think it would be fun to do this in DST. For I would like my friend and I to govern the same colony and make progress in it. If so, then would you implement these ideas? I think I can sketch out a few ideas on how to implement this a little later, I will describe later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassyfo Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Not this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 i wouldn't trust other people with my duplicants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I do not want it, but I do not mind if others get it. I do not think it will prevent any other DLC, it will just be an additional one if Klei decides to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxCD Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Glassyfo said: Not this again. Best soups are made in old pots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avc15 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 I could go for like an ironman relay game. But that's something we can do with the tools we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 15 hours ago, frozist said: I would like to ask you, have you thought about the idea to create multiplayer for Oxygen players? Wow, way to do any research. Not like it's so commonly asked it's in their FAQ or anything. https://support.klei.com/hc/en-us/articles/360029881671-Will-Oxygen-Not-Included-have-Multiplayer (Oh wait...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Hopefully many years of development to come, asking for multiplayer and player resource exchange via rockets regardless Even if it comes 2024 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassyfo Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 16 hours ago, Yunru said: Wow, way to do any research. Not like it's so commonly asked it's in their FAQ or anything. https://support.klei.com/hc/en-us/articles/360029881671-Will-Oxygen-Not-Included-have-Multiplayer (Oh wait...) It's also OP's only post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 On 12/13/2020 at 11:49 PM, Lbphero said: i wouldn't trust other people with my duplicants Sure, it's not for everyone but i have friends which which would love to play and constantly remind me that this is the biggest shortcoming of this game. And really, it's a lot fun having a game that needs so much coordination and interaction between players. most multiplayer games don't go nowhere near that which makes this game so particular interesting for some of us coop players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, TheKilltech said: Sure, it's not for everyone but i have friends which which would love to play and constantly remind me that this is the biggest shortcoming of this game. And really, it's a lot fun having a game that needs so much coordination and interaction between players. most multiplayer games don't go nowhere near that which makes this game so particular interesting for some of us coop players. ONi multiplayer would be superb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, TheKilltech said: Sure, it's not for everyone but i have friends which which would love to play and constantly remind me that this is the biggest shortcoming of this game. And really, it's a lot fun having a game that needs so much coordination and interaction between players. most multiplayer games don't go nowhere near that which makes this game so particular interesting for some of us coop players. even besides my absolute untrust of other oni players, how far would the gameplay go? would you really have that much more fun if you could ask some dude for oil, and then they send some, and thats it? would you really have that much more fun if you could send someone your dupes and then you just sit around and do nothing else? would you really have that much more fun if you couldnt control any of the time speeds or pause at all? would it really be that much more fun if someone could whether mistakenly or intentionally, deconstruct 1 singular wire while you're away, and subsequently cause your entire colony to die? ONI multiplayer as a concept is fundamentally flawed, you should go play space station 13 if you want a multiplayer space colony sim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Lbphero said: even besides my absolute untrust of other oni players, how far would the gameplay go? would you really have that much more fun if you could ask some dude for oil, and then they send some, and thats it? would you really have that much more fun if you could send someone your dupes and then you just sit around and do nothing else? would you really have that much more fun if you couldnt control any of the time speeds or pause at all? would it really be that much more fun if someone could whether mistakenly or intentionally, deconstruct 1 singular wire while you're away, and subsequently cause your entire colony to die? ONI multiplayer as a concept is fundamentally flawed, you should go play space station 13 if you want a multiplayer space colony sim... StarCraft has a special multiplayer mode where multiple players could control the very same base and its units - so not just be allies but really really command the very same units. This was the first game that we played such a feature and it was really awesome - but required more communication since you could just order some units to go left while your friends orders the very same units to go right overwriting your order. so it required more coordination and communication so we didn't just sabotage each other. And that made it a lot more fun then just playing each with his own base. Mindustry is another game which has such a feature. Being a mix between a factory game and tower defense there is also a pause option but in coop multiplayer it is disabled. And that is again what makes it great because one the one hand its easier to be able to split the tasks but which otherwise you need the pause feature for. On the other hand removing the pause adds an extra level of challenge that makes it a different experience that is also very much enjoyable. True in ONI, especially in the early game fast forwarding the night may be useful. Usually the solution here is to give the host this option. But i remember that some games had it in the game settings whether only host can change time, or all or no one. But as disconnecting a wire goes, or doing any other errors - yeah that is exactly the fun in it. you stand and fall together which is why it is important to communicate. also with multiplayer we usually never reload a game even if something goes terribly wrong. That's about the few chances you have to explore the stress mechanics of the game if you stand by your teams mistakes. And without a pause option the adrenalin rush gets real to save whatever you can in such a situation. I understand that playing like this is far from everyone's cup of tee, but it is exactly what is most fun for us. That being said, ONI is the perfect kind of game for this kind of multiplayer experience and sadly there are too few alternatives. Hence there isn't much else to do then to lobby for it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermindx Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, TheKilltech said: StarCraft has a special multiplayer mode where multiple players could control the very same base and its units - so not just be allies but really really command the very same units. In starcraft, APM (Action per minute) is one very important factor for success. Having 2 players "stacking" their APM effectively improve the efficiency of the team. What gain would ONI have in this situation? Are you ever so slow that your dupe go IDLE because you can't keep up with orders? On my end, I often let the game run by itself for a dozen cycle just so my dupe can catch up on me. Even relatively small building project can take 6-10 cycles to complete... The further from the "main base", the worse it gets. So I'm not sure how having 2 players planning digs/construction/etc at the same time would make the experience better. Just stream your game and have your friend joins a chat and plan together... You don't really need 2 inputs. I understand the interest of building something with friends, but when I do, I usually do so in a game where coop make thing better/faster/easier.. You know, the very point of cooperation. In ONI, it wouldn't be faster (dupe time limited and not input limited), it wouldn't be easier (Wouldn't improve resource yield, wouldn't reduce resource consumption, both player fighting eachother for dupe time), it wouldn't be better (For example, nothing becoming available because they are locked behind RPG style class). So, kindda why I don't really see the point.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, Mastermindx said: In starcraft, APM (Action per minute) is one very important factor for success. Having 2 players "stacking" their APM effectively improve the efficiency of the team. What gain would ONI have in this situation? Are you ever so slow that your dupe go IDLE because you can't keep up with orders? On my end, I often let the game run by itself for a dozen cycle just so my dupe can catch up on me. Even relatively small building project can take 6-10 cycles to complete... The further from the "main base", the worse it gets. So I'm not sure how having 2 players planning digs/construction/etc at the same time would make the experience better. Just stream your game and have your friend joins a chat and plan together... You don't really need 2 inputs. I understand the interest of building something with friends, but when I do, I usually do so in a game where coop make thing better/faster/easier.. You know, the very point of cooperation. In ONI, it wouldn't be faster (dupe time limited and not input limited), it wouldn't be easier (Wouldn't improve resource yield, wouldn't reduce resource consumption, both player fighting eachother for dupe time), it wouldn't be better (For example, nothing becoming available because they are locked behind RPG style class). So, kindda why I don't really see the point. Hmm, it always annoyed me when building stuff took too long so my play strategy is to employ a lot of dupes (and mass train them on the hamster wheels and tidy runs). I just want my big projects to be completed in one cycle. But i found that this strategy runs into a problem with the DLC content, because while i play in one colony i don't have time to do stuff in the other so the game constantly annoys me about up to 5 dupes being idle there. So indeed, now more then ever having some friends to help out with managing the other colonies would be really useful. I don't actually want to know how bad this gets when i have more then 2. Like this update cries for multiplayer and I suppose more people will start warming up to the idea now that it feels even needed. Other then that with huge colonies there is a ton of stuff happening all the time. And sometimes the flow in your pipes reaches a chocke point somewhere and some things stop to function optimally. With multiple eyes it's easer to catch those and fix them before it gets a problem whereas alone I feel like i miss alot and am quite behind thus need to make use of the pause freqently which breaks the flow of the game. Multiplayer would alleviate many of these issues in bigger colonies and would allow for a much smoother experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des06des Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 I think multiplayer is the surprise that have for us Klei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpy Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Why not go broke and ask for ONI MMO? No multiplayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, TheKilltech said: StarCraft has a special multiplayer mode where multiple players could control the very same base and its units - so not just be allies but really really command the very same units. that just sounds...awful....I have no idea how you can think of this and not think "hmm, I would prefer to constantly fight over what orders to give, rather than just being able to play the game"...Just play parsec or something and witness how clunky and unfun this would be... 1 hour ago, TheKilltech said: Mindustry is another game which has such a feature. Being a mix between a factory game and tower defense there is also a pause option but in coop multiplayer it is disabled. And that is again what makes it great because one the one hand its easier to be able to split the tasks but which otherwise you need the pause feature for. On the other hand removing the pause adds an extra level of challenge that makes it a different experience that is also very much enjoyable. removing the pause from ONI would make it borderline unplayable for me... I need some time to plan out my builds before my dupes get knee deep in it, and I need to pause so i can actually do other stuff, not only that, i am someone who plays on slow speed 99% of the time, god forbid I was paired up with someone else who plays on 3x or 2x speed and i can barely do anything without all hell breaking loose... 1 hour ago, TheKilltech said: But as disconnecting a wire goes, or doing any other errors - yeah that is exactly the fun in it. No, Its not! Based on this statement, I would not let you 5 quintillion lightyears from my colony, dude! that might be the fun of X or Y game that isn't a space colony game built on trying to be as sustainable as possible like oni, but i see absolutely no fun in having to babysit my friends to make absolutely sure that they don't break anything, I see absolutely no fun in having to tell my friends "DONT TOUCH A SINGLE PART OF THIS OR ELSE WE ALL EXPLODE" I fundamentally disagree with the statement you are putting up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Lbphero said: that just sounds...awful....I have no idea how you can think of this and not think "hmm, I would prefer this over just having full control over it"...Just play parsec or something and witness how clunky and unfun this would be... removing the pause from ONI would make it borderline unplayable for me... I need some time to plan out my builds before my dupes get knee deep in it, and I need to pause so i can actually do other stuff, not only that, i am someone who plays on slow speed 99% of the time, god forbid I was paired up with someone else who plays on 3x or 2x speed and i can barely do anything without all hell breaking loose... No, Its not! that might be the fun of X or Y game that isn't like oni, but i see absolutely no fun in having to babysit my friends to make absolutely sure that they don't break anything, I see absolutely no fun in having to tell my friends "DONT TOUCH A SINGLE PART OF THIS OR ELSE WE ALL EXPLODE" I fundamentally disagree with the statement you are putting up here. Well, the beautiful things about us humans that we are very versatile and individual in what we like. What you may find awful other cherish and the other way around. Maybe if you cannot image it, that just accept that there are people for which this is the most fun multiplayer experience. Same goes for the pause. You know, there are people that like playing hard mode or do other challenges. this is no different. If you have to play with such a restriction you adapt and learn to cope with it. Sometimes you find out that it turns be actually more fun to play that way. But again, it's not everyone's cup of tea. So you might fundamentally disagree with what i like and that's perfectly fine. I mean multiplayer would be something entirely optional and for those people only that enjoy that sort of thing. If you don't like the very idea, then there is nothing wrong with it. but on the other hand having multiplayer wouldn't affect your single player experience in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, TheKilltech said: If you don't like the very idea, then there is nothing wrong with it. I understand the idea of liking something differently to me, but in order for me to actually understand why you like something differently to me on a deeper than surface level, it is helpful to give me reasoning that i can actually understand...what you have given me thus far is describing an experience that is more cumbersome, disorganized, infinitely less fun than the original due to not only having to babysit your guests, having to fight for the control of your own dupes, and not even being able to control how fast the simulation goes or being able to pause the game. Did you know I have had ONI running this entire morning mostly paused because i play it throughout the day rather than all at the same time? 7 minutes ago, TheKilltech said: having multiplayer wouldn't affect your single player experience in any way. I get what you're saying here in the sense that the two modes wouldn't intersect, but you have to understand what happened between Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together. The moment that the multiplayer version came into play, aside from the dlc, the singleplayer version almost instantly became neglected and barely ever got any updates that fixed longstanding issues...I have no reason to believe that the same wouldn't happen for ONI, especially since even now we don't really get fixes for longstanding bugs very often anyway...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKilltech Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Lbphero said: I understand the idea of liking something differently to me, but in order for me to actually understand why you like something differently to me on a deeper than surface level, it is helpful to give me reasoning that i can actually understand...what you have given me thus far is describing an experience that is more cumbersome, disorganized, infinitely less fun than the original due to not only having to babysit your guests, having to fight for the control of your own dupes, and not even being able to control how fast the simulation goes or being able to pause the game. Did you know I have had ONI running this entire morning mostly paused because i play it throughout the day rather than all at the same time? Well, for one I am someone that likes challenges. So when playing games like sim city i want all stuff of catastrophes happen in an unpredicted manner so I need my planning to be rock solid to handle everything and every back up system having itself a backup. So when a critical wire is cut... and some system breaks, i can see my backup contingency plan kicking in and it is very satisfying to see it work and me being able to recover from disaster quickly. On the other hand if everything always works perfectly putting all the effort in building all the back ups feels inefficient and like a waste of time. Further I am someone that loves to plan long term just as much as I love to having to improvise under pressure. So I love games which are able to offer me both. Having no pause can add to the pressure, increasing the challenge which makes succeeding even more rewarding. Or maybe I should put it this way: imagine an action move where everything just goes perfectly according to plan without any setback... wouldn't that be incredibly boring? Generally things with too much predictability where you can plan everything perfectly ahead bore me quickly once I figure out all the there is. Thus everything that adds a little unpredictability to an otherwise static experience is great and in my experience multiplayer always adds a little of that. So everything you might see as cumbersome or disorganized can potentially add fun for me. Everything you can view as a challenge that you can put your mind to it is fun for me. Hopefully you can understand where I am coming from now.  And finally the friends I play with aren't certainly the type that need any babysitting. And if we started a new colony together we would only continue play it together. Having to coordinate action with your friends to not overburden your dupes is... fun, because interacting with friends is a great thing for social people to begin with and games that give you all the reason to do so are the best multiplayer titles. Another cool factor with games like ONI is that it really requires you to understand what drives/motivates/frustrates your teammates, how they perceive things and how they think and plan (i.e. at some point you don't need to communicate with them that much because you will know exactly what they think so no words are required (which saves critical time coordinating when under pressure) and at some point two minds meld into one... with 4 eyes and two mice. There is rarely a chance in life to gain that deep understanding of someone else's perspective and it is a very connecting experience if you can make it work. Hmm, I don't really know how to explain why this feels in itself so very rewarding far beyond the scope of game, but that's what it is for me. 3 hours ago, Lbphero said: I get what you're saying here in the sense that the two modes wouldn't intersect, but you have to understand what happened between Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together. The moment that the multiplayer version came into play, aside from the dlc, the singleplayer version almost instantly became neglected and barely ever got any updates that fixed longstanding issues...I have no reason to believe that the same wouldn't happen for ONI, especially since even now we don't really get fixes for longstanding bugs very often anyway...... Hmm, I don't know those games, but it's a fair point though. On the other hand if all effort is put into the multiplayer version doesn't that imply that that it is what most people are interested in? Otherwise it would seem financially irrational to focus on it if it's not the money maker. And it's not like there aren't examples where single player modes profited from the experiences made in multiplayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeal Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Can we have multiplayer just to stop people like me suggesting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassyfo Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 This is just a constant recycle of arguments that have been used before. IN MORE THAN ONE THREAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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