Effective fireproofing

[Intrepidpioneer]

I always felt like fire in dst was and still is the most destructive force in the game with very easy accessibility, meanwhile fire prevention seems to be inefficient and locked behind mid game. For example, the first defense to stop a fire is using ice which starts to form closer to winter, next is water balloons which are very good at stopping a fire but hard to farm unless you're Wurt or Webber (set up your friends to cause fights) then the ice staff which need magic and gems, not as effective as water balloons but still decent. The feather works great too but it's very expensive needing moose goose feathers which comes around all the way in spring. The flingo is not as effective as it should be, emergency mode can let a field of grass burn down before starting up and leaving it on at all times is costly as well. It seems the boat flingo is the most effective, but it's locked on boats to my knowledge needing that water fish to make, do you see my point? Fire is so easy to make while stopping it is so inconvenient, expensive, and tedious. I wish there was some cheap way to stop a fire like wet structures can't burn ( can't set fires in a rain storm) or applying marsh turf to a structure makes it fire proof for a certain amount of time. Am I supposed to just accept that griefers have the right of way and all people can do is roll back a server? What do you think?

[prezera]

The most effective fire stopper is not letting a fire start in the first place. If you prevent griefers from burning things down by giving the player more ways to put the fire out, the griefers will start using hammers instead. There is no real way to get rid of griefers other than simply playing with friends.

The only problem I have with fire is that summer basically forces you to base in the Oasis or caves. Wish klei would do something like make antlion harder but make killing him stop wildfires until he respawns again.

[Intrepidpioneer]

13 minutes ago, PrezPara said:

The most effective fire stopper is not letting a fire start in the first place. If you prevent griefers from burning things down by giving the player more ways to put the fire out, the griefers will start using hammers instead. There is no real way to get rid of griefers other than simply playing with friends.

The only problem I have with fire is that summer basically forces you to base in the Oasis or caves. Wish klei would do something like make antlion harder but make killing him stop wildfires until he respawns again.

This topic was not intentionally intended towards griefers but wildfires. If effective fire protection was a thing I feel that griefers would not grief as much because it's more fun to blow a house of cards down than to say, buy a fan from the store and then use it to blow down the cards. Highest value destruction for lowest amount of effort.

I'm more concerned about constantly being on the lookout for smoldering stuff in summer or returning to a partially burned base because sometimes something catches fire and I don't notice. And like I mentioned before the flingo can sometimes let things burn too before turning on.

[D7X]

It would be nice if fire spread was a bit slower, giving you time to actually manage the fire before it gets out of control. The length of time things smoulder for could be greatly increased and it would give you time to run off and craft an ice staff because who actually has the forethought to craft one before a big fire grab your ice staff to put it out.

[Notecja]

7 minutes ago, D7X said:

It would be nice if fire spread was a bit slower, giving you time to actually manage the fire before it gets out of control. The length of time things smoulder for could be greatly increased and it would give you time to run off and craft an ice staff because who actually has the forethought to craft one before a big fire grab your ice staff to put it out.

Already is much slower than was originally (singleplayer, in there you barely got seconds for reaction in base and in cause of forest fire - no reaction time at all). 

[D7X]

13 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Already is much slower than was originally (singleplayer, in there you barely got seconds for reaction in base and in cause of forest fire - no reaction time at all). 

That doesn't mean it couldn't be slower still. Actively and cooperatively fighting a fire would be a more fun gameplay mechanic than watching everything burn and then (more often than not) rolling back the world.

As for preventing griefing, they could just disable the torches ability to light things on fire when near any player built structures/replanted plants. Fire staff could still be used for the specific situations where you actually want to burn something.

[ZTheNecromancer]

8 minutes ago, D7X said:

As for preventing griefing, they could just disable the torches ability to light things on fire when near any player built structures/replanted plants. Fire staff could still be used for the specific situations where you actually want to burn something.

You do realize that ends up restricting crockpots and drying racks to a mid-to-late game thing, right?

[Notecja]

1 minute ago, D7X said:

That doesn't mean it couldn't be slower still. Actively and cooperatively fighting a fire would be a more fun gameplay mechanic than watching everything burn and then (more often than not) rolling back the world.

Umm... I was finding it really slow and without playing as Willow. But, welp, usually planning ahead helps a lot... and probably is rather supposed to "prevent" than "fight" fire - fighting a fire is never a fun (in games, in reality, in movies, anywhere) and I think it should not be fun.

[D7X]

1 minute ago, ZeeDragon said:

You do realize that ends up restricting crockpots and drying racks to a mid-to-late game thing, right?

No? I said player built structures and replanted plants. I wasn't including trees in that even replanted ones, even if I was you could still burn "wild" trees for charcoal or create a fuse out of burnable items leading to a patch of trees.

[pyroisshy]

I'm unsure of how scaled flooring really works, but there is probably some potential for fireproofing tweaks there. I also remember the dev team said they are looking into a way to add easy ways to trigger summer rain in future RoT content which could make wildfires less of an issue

[ZTheNecromancer]

8 minutes ago, D7X said:

No? I said player built structures and replanted plants. I wasn't including trees in that even replanted ones, even if I was you could still burn "wild" trees for charcoal or create a fuse out of burnable items leading to a patch of trees.

But even then it ruins the feel of the game, DS & DST (And DLC's) are marketed as cruel and unforgiving. Making stuff fireproof just kinda ruins it y'know? It's a bit weird to not be able to light a tree you planted with a pinecone to burn or chop it and not be able to burn it. Just seems a bit Illogical, tbh. (But then again this IS a video game.)

[D7X]

29 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

But even then it ruins the feel of the game, DS & DST (And DLC's) are marketed as cruel and unforgiving. Making stuff fireproof just kinda ruins it y'know? It's a bit weird to not be able to light a tree you planted with a pinecone to burn or chop it and not be able to burn it. Just seems a bit Illogical, tbh. (But then again this IS a video game.)

Are you reading 1/5th of my posts then giving up? I wasn't suggesting they made it so you couldn't light trees on fire and I only included replanted plants because they are often planted close enough to everything else to cause a chain reaction. I didn't say it was a perfect solution, I said it was a good one to prevent griefing with minimal impact on general gameplay. Personally, I hate people rolling back worlds to save a burned base, that is immersion breaking to me. But it is a feature in the game that is used often to undo the effects of fires caused by griefing. I would much rather prevent those fires from being started in the first place than helplessly watch as the rest of the server votes to MANIPULATE TIME BY ROLLING BACK THE WHOLE WORLD. It would still be a cruel and unforgiving world, this is literally just a solution to prevent griefing with something as cheap to make as a torch. Stuff could still catch on fire in summer or by fire hounds. All I'm saying is players would be prevented from right clicking on a structure with a torch to light it, that's it.

38 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Umm... I was finding it really slow and without playing as Willow. But, welp, usually planning ahead helps a lot... and probably is rather supposed to "prevent" than "fight" fire - fighting a fire is never a fun (in games, in reality, in movies, anywhere) and I think it should not be fun.

Fire fighting can be fun, there are games about fighting fires. There are games about blowing peoples heads off with shotguns that are fun. I don't understand this weird guilt trip you're trying to send me on for suggesting a game mechanic be reworked to help prevent griefing. Griefing is only fun for the griefer. I know DST is mostly about preparing for the worst but I'm not really talking about wildfires here and there is no preparation against a good griefer.

[Mike23Ua]

I personally have no problem with fires, but- if you do you can host servers with things like wildfire spread turned off.

Funny thing I should mention though- the character people Kick from games often because they just magically assume “ooooo Willow spawns with a super scary lighter She totally burned everything!”

Is ALSO (and Rather hilariously) the only character in the game who does not take health damage while smothering out smoldering structures about to catch fire.

You want a good Fire prevention item- Yet you BAN Her because you fear she starts every fire.
 

[Intrepidpioneer]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I personally have no problem with fires, but- if you do you can host servers with things like wildfire spread turned off.

Funny thing I should mention though- the character people Kick from games often because they just magically assume “ooooo Willow spawns with a super scary lighter She totally burned everything!”

Is ALSO (and Rather hilariously) the only character in the game who does not take health damage while smothering out smoldering structures about to catch fire.

You want a good Fire prevention item- Yet you BAN Her because you fear she starts every fire.
 

Can willow also extinguish fires that are already happening? I'm not familiar with the extent of her fire ability, but if not. They she's in the same pile as everyone else. Fire prevention should somehow be a thing, whether by magic, boss loot, something.

 

40 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

But even then it ruins the feel of the game, DS & DST (And DLC's) are marketed as cruel and unforgiving. Making stuff fireproof just kinda ruins it y'know? It's a bit weird to not be able to light a tree you planted with a pinecone to burn or chop it and not be able to burn it. Just seems a bit Illogical, tbh. (But then again this IS a video game.)

making something fireproof ruins the experience as cruel an unforgiving? But we have fridges to keep our food cold with no electricity, and can cook food with random ingredients that somehow sustains us for days. I think that's a bit of a stretch.

[Mike23Ua]

Well to be fair I don’t build these massive 2000+ day mega base worlds, that is NOT and NEVER has been the selling point of DS/DST for me And in Fact DS Single Players Adventures mode encouraged the exact OPPOSITE playstyle, as in never building a massive base anywhere and just traversing as quickly as you can through all 5 chapters.

So to see people with these long standing 1000+ day worlds is beyond absolutely astonishing to me because I often get bored of the same world after around day 300-500 and delete it to start a brand new randomly generated hostile world to explore.

With that Said- My bases are always rather small and compact and in that regard a single Ice-Flingo machine would keep MY Base from going up in flames.

I do not and never have went out and dug up every Berry bush to conveniently relocate them into my base.. I only bring home 4-5 and leave the REST in their naturally spawning locations, not only does this GREATLY assist the Vegetable only eating Wurt player when she’s out on Questing Adventures in having instantly accessible food from its natural source WHEN she needs it...

But it also prevents YOU from having to worry about your 2000 berry bushes being burned away because a seed a bird dropped dead center of them caught fire in Mid-Summer.

Wanting the games challenges to be even EASIER to overcome is the wrong direction to want an uncompromising wilderness survival game to go in.

In fact I kinda hate that they give us PROBLEMS, and then also turn right around and give us PERMANENT Solutions to fix those problems.. 

I would like more unpredictable, unprepared  for chaos, Tornadoes, High Rising Flood Waters, Earthquakes, Wildfires, Winter Blizzards, Sand Storms, Toxic Acid Rain that FORCES you to relocate to a new area... the LAST thing DST needs is more uncompromising content that also has a permanent totally compromising solution.

But thats just my opinion.. and I fear that very few people actually want harder difficulty modes or challenges in DST.  
 

I see people wanting a cure for disease.. the only truly uncompromising feature in DST that “Currently” doesn’t also have a totally compromising solution that fixes it.

[bruhmoment23]

The only solution to a griefer is a solid boot in the bossom, majority of them tend to know how this game works and will counter most if not all of the efforts to put out the flames. Wild fires however, are very predictable and easy to understand, for example the smoldering will only start within the radius of the players screen, nowhere else. By the time you reach summer you should atleast have one flingomatic, which is currently the best automatic way of keeping fire at bay in bases/farms, you don't need to have it turned on 24/7 through all seasons, rather summer only. They're not that hard to obtain either, considering in your everyday world-gen you get what? 4-5 normal clockwork areas? That should be enough for a couple of flingos, unless you're planning to start mega-basing early, so in that case the other main source of gears are the ruins. I can understand that summer is painful to go through in some cases, but it's not difficult to prevent it from kicking you in the nuts either, you just have to plan ahead.

[Owlrust]

Every time I see a thread with titles like "Best boat placement strategy", "Best uses for stonefruit", or this, I always think it's gonna be a guide detailing the subject and it always ends up being a question.

Back on topic, I am of the opinion that you either play an open lobby knowing the consequences of human nature (that is, being jerks for fun), having chaotic-throwaway fun, or you play privately with your friends and/or discord group(s) for organized fun; most of your fires will come from griefers anyways, so the benefit of playing privately is (on top of no griefers) saving resources that may be spent trying to counter fires.

[BeeClops]

Lureplants can also be used, as they have the highest wildfire targetting priority, so you know what's gonna catch fire.

But for my long term worlds, i either spend most of summer in caves, or just turn off wildfires. I just don't like having 20 flingos all over my base and having to maintain them, it's just too tedious and annoying. 

[Notecja]

7 hours ago, D7X said:

Fire fighting can be fun, there are games about fighting fires. There are games about blowing peoples heads off with shotguns that are fun. I don't understand this weird guilt trip you're trying to send me on for suggesting a game mechanic be reworked to help prevent griefing. Griefing is only fun for the griefer. I know DST is mostly about preparing for the worst but I'm not really talking about wildfires here and there is no preparation against a good griefer.

DST is not a fire fighting game, is described as unforgiving survival, etc. As somebody mentioned - maybe devs will tweaks few fings for wildfires and rains, but is not possible to change human nature.

If you have problem with griefers, don't play with random people. Nothing else can stop them, because they will use any of game mechanic against others - hammering everything, or throwing all gold, flints and stones into water, turning weather into rain 24/7, placing useless structures all over base, picking expensive things and logging-off forever, killing glommer, planting lureplants all over... Fire is just one of mechanic that they could use agains others. 

[DaZoul]

You can always base in the Oasis, it basically designed for megabasing

[ryvrdrgn14]

I think that fires are fine as they are. There should be some threats in the game that can ruin your life if you don't take appropriate actions. If fires from griefers or a slipup on your part gets your base, then just use the console command to roll back if it bothers you that much.

[D7X]

5 hours ago, Notecja said:

DST is not a fire fighting game, is described as unforgiving survival, etc. As somebody mentioned - maybe devs will tweaks few fings for wildfires and rains, but is not possible to change human nature.

If you have problem with griefers, don't play with random people. Nothing else can stop them, because they will use any of game mechanic against others - hammering everything, or throwing all gold, flints and stones into water, turning weather into rain 24/7, placing useless structures all over base, picking expensive things and logging-off forever, killing glommer, planting lureplants all over... Fire is just one of mechanic that they could use agains others. 

Your logic is so damn weird. No it's not a fire fighting game but you can fight fires in it using various tools, it's not a dog killing game either but you will very often have to kill hounds to survive. It's a game with many elements to it, not every aspect has to be "unforgiving survival." Placing a god damn potted fern isn't "unforgiving survival" but I don't see you arguing for that to be removed because it doesn't fit the description. You need to stop applying such weird reasoning to what was a simple suggestion that would counteract a problem without detracting from gameplay in any meaningful way.

I personally don't have a problem with griefers and when I go into a public server I fully expect griefing to happen. I do not attach value to pubs and I am completely ready to lose everything to a griefer, that doesn't mean everyone else is. All I did was offer a solution to the problem the OP put forward, all you're doing is saying "no" in weird and confusing ways without actually giving a reason why.

[Intrepidpioneer]

11 hours ago, BeeClops said:

Lureplants can also be used, as they have the highest wildfire targetting priority, so you know what's gonna catch fire.

But for my long term worlds, i either spend most of summer in caves, or just turn off wildfires. I just don't like having 20 flingos all over my base and having to maintain them, it's just too tedious and annoying. 

Lureplants create eye flowers how much space of flooring is necessary to support disabling that

 

[Intrepidpioneer]

8 hours ago, Notecja said:

DST is not a fire fighting game, is described as unforgiving survival, etc. As somebody mentioned - maybe devs will tweaks few fings for wildfires and rains, but is not possible to change human nature.

If you have problem with griefers, don't play with random people. Nothing else can stop them, because they will use any of game mechanic against others - hammering everything, or throwing all gold, flints and stones into water, turning weather into rain 24/7, placing useless structures all over base, picking expensive things and logging-off forever, killing glommer, planting lureplants all over... Fire is just one of mechanic that they could use agains others. 

You're technically right, but in practice, wrong. It's the path of least resistance. It's not worth a griefers time to tediously grief a base. I personally do not have issues with griefing but your solution is rather silly. If you don't like griefers hide your base is the correct rule. If you do not like people robbing your store you buy a shotgun, you do not close your store down and move somewhere else. 

You say fire fighting is not the point of the game, yet there are ways to fight fires... Hmm that's funny. Why put ways to fight fires if by your logic the game is cruel and unforgiving why doesn't klei remove all methods to fight fires wouldn't that be cruel which is the point of the theme? All I'm saying is maybe with a combination of things fire as a cheap destructive force can have a cheap combatant. And a more effective late game prevention method. 

(Sorry for double post, not sure how to merge)

[Pelontriques]

iirc, things can't burn if they're off-screen.

i'd love for fire mechanics to be rebalanced. it's annoying to have an entire base get burned down with no way to salvage it just because summer exists.