Proposing Wigfrid Rework

[I luv Wendy]

The current community census is that Wigfrid is in a well balanced state. Her strength that she hits harder, tanks better and leeches health and sanity from weak enemies are strong and straightforward, and her weakness of meat-only diet is fun to play around with. Community often compares Wigfrid with Wolfgang, however, and in that comparison Wigfrid felt much weaker. In my opinion Wolfgang is too strong and needs a nerf, but I admit that one can definitely buff Wigfrid instead. Here I propose a buff that I think will make Wigfrid fun. 

 

Wigfrid does a battle cry every 10th attack, causing Wigfrid and all other players in the vicinity to do 5% more damage and receive 5% less damage for 25 seconds, and can stack up to 25% more damage done and 25% less damage taken. This buff will stack with Wigfrid’s innate 25% more damage done and 25% less damage taken, bringing the total buff on Wigfrid to 50% more damage done and 50% less damage taken. The downside is that the effect of battle cry will soon vanish if Wigfrid stopped attacking for some reason, for example when dodging attacks.  

 

With this buff I think Wigfrid will finally be comparable with Wendy and Wolfgang in the damage department, and it will distinguish itself with Wolfgang in that half of her damage buff applies for all players in the vicinity, so for 3 or more players Wigfrid may out-damage even Wolfgang.

 

What do you guys think?

[Well-met]

I'm thinking Wolf and Wendy could use a little tone down instead.

I'm also thinking Forge and Gorge mechanics should stay where they belong.

[wigfrids hat]

27 minutes ago, I luv Wendy said:

snip

doesn't wolfgang have the highest hunger drain while mighty and a very weak attack when not mighty?

[WoodieMain45684]

3 minutes ago, gaymime said:

doesn't wolfgang have the highest hunger drain while mighty

yes

 

4 minutes ago, gaymime said:

and a very weak attack when not mighty

not necessarily, it begins to scale down when he hits wimpy form, but keeping it above that threshold and in the "normal" range is comparatively much easier that dealing with mighty hunger drain, HOWEVER a lot of wolfgang mains are good enough at resource management that they can stay perma-mighty and keep speed boost as well as damage no matter what.

[wigfrids hat]

1 minute ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

snip

maybe i only see noobs, i've fed a few who just gorged themselves mighty then hung around base until it was time to fight or die x''D

[DirtWolf]

Why try to make her more like Wolfgang? You already acknowledge that Wigfrid is the better tank. This is intentionally how the two fighter characters are balanced. One is a damage dealer and the other one is a tank. Shouldn't her rework focus on her intended role as the tank?

[MondayNight]

I would very much wish Wigfrid's core mechanics be left unchanged. Instead build on top of them with some optional perks like Wig being able to make a torso counterpart for her Battle Helmet and/or being able to make/upgrade her gear at complete Ancient Pseudoscience Station with Thulecite - aka an Ancient Battle Spear and an Ancient Battle Helmet would be fine additions and, as stated, completely optional. Battle Cry that only boosts up allies in fights could also be an additional bonus.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

I dont like a mechanic that only works if im tanking, that doesnt make her more fun, is the opposite

32 minutes ago, gaymime said:

doesn't wolfgang have the highest hunger drain while mighty and a very weak attack when not mighty?

having double damage means that you can farm meat easily so you dont need to worry about hungry+he can have bundle wrap recipe easier than other characters so you can store big amounts of food that dont perish and ready to go

[Mike23Ua]

Wigfrids rework should utilize the full potential of the Unicorn, she should be able to ride any mob with potential Unicorn horns on its head.

Volt Goat, Gnarwail... you get the Idea  

[DarkPulse91]

Well everyone else is arguing, I at least like the idea you gave, seems pretty in character for her. Tho it might not see much use outside of toadstool or klaus

[I luv Wendy]

1 hour ago, DirtWolf said:

Why try to make her more like Wolfgang? You already acknowledge that Wigfrid is the better tank. This is intentionally how the two fighter characters are balanced. One is a damage dealer and the other one is a tank. Shouldn't her rework focus on her intended role as the tank?

Wigfrid is supposed to be the better tank, but some argued that Wolfgang currently tank better, in that 1. Mighty Wolfgang has higher health at 300, while Wigfrid has 200/0.75=267, and 2. Wolfgang's health scales with hunger, meaning that healing from food can also scales, and 3. Wolfgang has much higher DPS, that leads to shorter fights and less damage taken. 

Because there is no aggro mechanics in DST, the difference between a damage dealer and a tank are actually quite murky, and a better damage dealer is often a better tank. By giving Wigfrid team buff on damage and defense Wigfrid will take the role of team fighter that fight with the team, hopefully differentiate with Wolfgang's role of solo fighter that does not necessarily require teammates to fight alongside it. 

2 hours ago, Well-met said:

I'm thinking Wolf and Wendy could use a little tone down instead.

I'm also thinking Forge and Gorge mechanics should stay where they belong.

You know what, I also agrees with you. But dev decided to rework Wigfrid instead of Wolfgang...

So if that's what dev decided to do, I'm ok with that.

Also depending on the implementation, Forge and Gorge mechanics might not be a bad idea. We have onions and garlics from Gorge. 

[DirtWolf]

23 minutes ago, I luv Wendy said:

Wigfrid is supposed to be the better tank, but some argued that Wolfgang currently tank better, in that 1. Mighty Wolfgang has higher health at 300, while Wigfrid has 200/0.75=267

This doesn't account for health recovered on hit via her life steal.

24 minutes ago, I luv Wendy said:

Because there is no aggro mechanics in DST, the difference between a damage dealer and a tank are actually quite murky, and a better damage dealer is often a better tank. 

I'm not really concerned with what's "better" so much that I prefer the playstyle that Wigfrid uniquely provides and making her more like Wolfgang simply because it's perceived to be "better" isn't the right way to go about a rework of an already fun character imo. I haven't prepped food-based healing for a boss fight other than Jellybeans on my world for hundreds of days. Her lifesteal + Jellybeans + Bat Bat is more than enough for anything in the game. I'd rather the devs lean in on what she does best instead of making her more like a character that already exists.

 

31 minutes ago, I luv Wendy said:

By giving Wigfrid team buff on damage and defense Wigfrid will take the role of team fighter that fight with the team, hopefully differentiate with Wolfgang's role of solo fighter that does not necessarily require teammates to fight alongside it. 

I don't have a thematic problem with this, but I think any more damage multipliers like this would just be too much as Warly can already buff a whole team with peppers and Volt Goat Jelly. 

[ShadowDuelist]

I like the idea of the battlecry. but maybe her battlecry could instead of buffing everyone's damage, buff everyone's defense/armor instead. Except for Wigfrid.

EG: During battle cry all non Wigfrids gain a 10% extra damage resistance for 60 seconds, stacking up to a maximum of 30% extra defense. However, Wigfrid herself (and other Wigfrids nearby) get instead a single attack boost (like at the forge, that with spiral spear she could do multiple attacks in one, during the battle cry)

3 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

I would very much wish Wigfrid's core mechanics be left unchanged. Instead build on top of them with some optional perks like Wig being able to make a torso counterpart for her Battle Helmet and/or being able to make/upgrade her gear at complete Ancient Pseudoscience Station with Thulecite - aka an Ancient Battle Spear and an Ancient Battle Helmet would be fine additions and, as stated, completely optional.

I support 100% this idea as well. Ancient battle items could also hold perks on their own.

EG:

• Ancient battle helmet protects for 85% defense, has twice the durability of a thul crown, and when it breaks, a shadow unicorn pops out and stunlocks all enemies around the player for a second.
• Ancient Battle spear could have 59.5 damage, 200 uses, and right clicking could do the forge's spear slash attack, damaging all enemies in a short straight line, for an increased cost in durability (10 uses each time). This could have a short cooldown.

[I luv Wendy]

2 hours ago, DirtWolf said:

This doesn't account for health recovered on hit via her life steal.

Wigfrid's life steal on bosses are minimal. For example versus Deerclop with hambat the life steal 150*0.25*59/4000=0.55 per hit. It will heal a total 37.5 during the entire boss fight, which is a little less than one pierogi. Against stronger bosses the life steal is even less effective.

2 hours ago, DirtWolf said:

I don't have a thematic problem with this, but I think any more damage multipliers like this would just be too much as Warly can already buff a whole team with peppers and Volt Goat Jelly. 

Not every world is started with a Warly. I think a team buff Wigfrid will give more choice to players who want to buff team damage but does not want a supportive play style. The team buff will stack with Warly, though, and I think it is ok since it involves more players, and more players should naturally be stronger against raid bosses. 

5 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

I would very much wish Wigfrid's core mechanics be left unchanged. Instead build on top of them with some optional perks like Wig being able to make a torso counterpart for her Battle Helmet and/or being able to make/upgrade her gear at complete Ancient Pseudoscience Station with Thulecite - aka an Ancient Battle Spear and an Ancient Battle Helmet would be fine additions and, as stated, completely optional. Battle Cry that only boosts up allies in fights could also be an additional bonus.

It is an interesting idea. The problem with that however, is that it will compete with existing armor or weapons and it will be hard to balance. If Wigfrid's item is too strong, then people will not use darksword/thulerite clubs/thulerite crown anymore. 

[Willyhoo]

 Personally, I love the battle cry idea!!!!!!  makes me think of this too:

 

I'm thinking of maybe a second life mechanic, inspired by yours. Like, maybe, when she dies, she stays at a 1 health and does a short intense damage boost. Maybe she picks up 'more damage if lower health' from wendys initial abigail rework concept or wolf's forge perk.

 

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, I luv Wendy said:

It is an interesting idea. The problem with that however, is that it will compete with existing armor or weapons and it will be hard to balance. If Wigfrid's item is too strong, then people will not use darksword/thulerite clubs/thulerite crown anymore. 

If this would be the route KLei goes with, am sure they can find a good balance.

 

Atm Battle Helm has 525 hp and absorbs 80% of physical damage.

Thulecite Crown has 840 hp and absorbs 90% of physical damage with a 33% chance on hit to create an invincibility force field.

 

One could conceptualize an Ancient Battle Helmet with 685-725 hp that absorbs 85% of physical damage and no additional perks without making Thule Crown obsolete at all.

 

 

On the other hand Battle Spear atm does 42.5 damage and has 200 uses.

Fresh Ham Bat does 59.5 damage with no use limit outside spoilage.

Dark Sword does 68 damage with 100 uses.

Thulecite Club does 59.5 damage with 200 uses, 10% speed increase and has a 20% chance to spawn Shadow Tentacle on hit.

 

Again one could think of an Ancient Battle Spear that does 59.5 damage, has 200 uses and no additional perks without making any of the mentioned weapons stale (pun intended).

 

 

Both examples provide Wigfrid-specific late-game weapon and armor via Thulecite use as quite viable alternatives. Crafting could require the simple version (Battle Spear/Battle Helmet) plus a certain amount of Thulecite and Nightmare Fuel (perhaps 2-3x of both in default recipe, 1x each if using a Construction Amulet). Or they both would require only Thule so as to delimit them in some particular way from regular-made Thule gear (would also explain why they don't have any additional magical feature, as Nightmare Fuel would be the one imbuing this aspect) - and make both alternatives attractive. Would be a neat way to build on-top of Wig's solid design core (perhaps the best character design in DST to date)

[Mike23Ua]

So Some people don’t want Wes to get a rework, and want him to stay exactly as he is-

Which the TL:DR of that is a waste of Spear and Helmet resources.. I’m singling out Wes because facts are facts: A Wigfrid Spear and Helmet in the hands of any other character would be more useful then handing them to Wes.

With Wigfrids Rework- Here is what I’d like to see: A Buff that makes Wes NOT Suck.. Similar to how Abigail buffs Wendy’s damage completely removing her “doesn’t hit as hard” downside.

So to put it into the shortest TL:DR terms I can think of- Let Wigfrid Spears and Helms be MOST Useful when used by Wes.

Wes actually becomes useful as a viable “Team Pick” and yet still remains to be 125% completely useless when not powered by Team Perks.

[Willyhoo]

53 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

So to put it into the shortest TL:DR terms I can think of- Let Wigfrid Spears and Helms be MOST Useful when used by Wes.

Wes actually becomes useful as a viable “Team Pick” and yet still remains to be 125% completely useless when not powered by Team Perks.

That's a cool idea! I can imagine Wes becoming almost someone who can benefit from other's perks? Perhaps?

[E1234]

I would love to see Beefalo taming incorporated into her rework. Charging deerclops with a War Saddle Ornery Beefalo really captures Wigfrid's spirit and character very well. Problem is that taming a beefalo is actually a debuff to Wigfrid because her damage multiplier and resistance dont take effect. I dont even think her life leech takes effect. 

I could totally see a unique Unicorn themed saddle being added that allows the beefalo to life leech. Can even tie it into Ocean content and make it require a Gnarwail horn. OR maybe there can be unique beefalo tendency exclusive to Wigfrid where it transforms it into some mythical unicorn beast that has unique buffs. But just like Wigfrid, it only eats meat now. I know a lot of people don't enjoy beefalo taming, but I think this would fit the character very well.

Since its obvious her battle spear and helm wont go away, maybe they could allow you to craft upgraded versions at an Ancient Pseudo Science Station. Combine the helm and some nightmare fuel and thulecite and you get an upgraded, more durable version of your helm.

See, I dont know how they do it at Klei. I feel like I'm awful when it comes to brainstorming rework ideas. All I can think of is basic stat increases on things already in her kit lol. Can't wait to see how the rework plays out next month

[Articestone]

If Wigfrid become more defensive like till 50%, it stacks with warly garlic seasoning, so it will only take 43.5% dmg, further more with marble armor the dmg taken will be around 1%. With wigfrid regeneration and enough armor Wigfrid can never die while attacking so wishing for dmg reduction up to 50% should not work out as it is game breaking. Although an equipment buff might be nice it will continue to be a switch in character to mass produced armor and weapon. Instead let the buffed equipment only can be used by Wigfrid so that noobs who play Wigfrid can use better armor to survive better ( if the cost is not ruins material) and still continue to provide equipment to other players 

Ps I might miscalculate the dmg reduction 

[AlternateMew]

9 hours ago, E1234 said:

I would love to see Beefalo taming incorporated into her rework.

That's less intrusive than what I wanted to see (Capitalize on her role as an actor, give her a completely second "form" as Winnie the shepherd), but I'd love to see this as well, rather than a straight damage buff.

In my opinion, she needs to fill a role beyond just "kill things". Because if that's her only role, then she'll be forever compared against Wolfgang, with his identical role. Rework or no, one will come out on top in the "kill things" department, leaving the other considered as a lackluster pick if they don't bring something else to the table.

Having Wigfrid have a slight specialty in taming beasts could be a way to go about it. Give her a nice little buff to taming them alongside some worthwhile perks for using them. That would let her be the choice character to tame for others and herself.

[E1234]

4 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

That's less intrusive than what I wanted to see (Capitalize on her role as an actor, give her a completely second "form" as Winnie the shepherd), but I'd love to see this as well, rather than a straight damage buff.

In my opinion, she needs to fill a role beyond just "kill things". Because if that's her only role, then she'll be forever compared against Wolfgang, with his identical role. Rework or no, one will come out on top in the "kill things" department, leaving the other considered as a lackluster pick if they don't bring something else to the table.

Having Wigfrid have a slight specialty in taming beasts could be a way to go about it. Give her a nice little buff to taming them alongside some worthwhile perks for using them. That would let her be the choice character to tame for others and herself.

That could be cool too. I could see them doing a variant of Wolfgangs mighty and wimpy form where you're Winnie, the animal loving vegetarian and then after X requirement is met, you "transform" into Wigfrid. But once again, I feel Im really bad at rework ideas lol. Its literally just a copy of Wolfgang.

[BoysenSyrup]

Wigfrid isn't the actress, Wigfrid is the role the actress is obsessed with. She will starve to death because she refuses to break character. (Also it might break her downside of being a carnivore if she can just decide to eat vegetables)

[AlternateMew]

I was in favor of vegetarian Winnie as Wigfrid's rework before Wurt came out. Wurt now fills that role. So now I prefer the idea of Shepard Winnie (or just Beast Tamer Wigfrid if that's too ambitious).

She needs something useful that isn't solely combat focused that also can't be done better by someone else.

Buffbot style is already covered by Warly. So bringing direct buffs to companions shouldn't be it. Sheer combat prowess seems to be more suited towards Wolfgang. So Wigfrid needs something else. She already seems slightly geared toward providing cool stuff, as who doesn't like using her battle gear for flash? Sure if you're going for minmax, her helm and spear can be outclassed. But they're cool.

So I think having her be the dedicated tamer has potential. Beefalo are the obvious ones. Make it easier for her to tame one and/or give extra viable reasons to do so. She could tame a herd for the crew.

There's a second candidate I can think of offhand. Raising a Tallbird is a difficult and currently thankless task. Maybe do something with that to make it worthwhile for her to raise one.

Perfectly honest I only want Shepard Winnie over Tamer Wigfrid because it'd be cool to see Wigfrid swap roles mid-game and flip her personality. A good showoff that she's not some out-of-place viking, she's a hardcore actress whose name we do not know but for the characters she will roleplay to the death.