Can dupes exhale CO2 under unbreathable condition?

[GZackham]

Well, most of time I found this true. But just a few moment ago I found 1 tile of CO2 of 20g inside my PURE chlorine disinfecting room, which drives me utter crazy.

[Neotuck]

They shouldn't, however depending on how you made the airlock some CO2 can slip though

can you provide a screenshot?

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, GZackham said:

Well, most of time I found this true. But just a few moment ago I found 1 tile of CO2 of 20g inside my PURE chlorine disinfecting room, which drives me utter crazy.

Yes. They absolutely can.  You probably have a water lock under the area, or mechanical doors, and so when they exhale the gas goes up until it finds a tile it can occupy.  If that requires a 62 tile upward jump, it doesn't matter.  Here it happens two tiles above with a waterlock. 

Here is a thread about it, with more details including it happening with regular doors.  It can be frustrating.

Keeping dupes in exosuits 24/7 seems to make this bug disappear completely.  It's one of the reasons I even have my dupes sleep in their suits (they just change out once a day). 

[Gurgel]

The only reliable thing seems to be to make sure dupes are in exo-suits before going in.

[Neotuck]

Dupes can breath from within a liquid lock due to being able to pull oxygen from one tile away, that's why most liquid locks fail as CO2 they exhale can break the lock or slip onto the wrong side

One way to prevent this to to create a two tile gap under the lock forcing dupes to jump across

Put two together with a vacuum in the middle and it's also perfectly insulated 

Also when dupes jump though liquids, they don't get "soggy feet"

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, Neotuck said:

that's why most liquid locks fail as CO2 they exhale can break the lock or slip onto the wrong side

This used to be how things worked, but now CO2 does not displace liquid as dupes exhale (it used to displace any liquid at dupes feet, causing massive problems in other places - looking for the update notes is taking too long, but you can find lots of posts from 2017 with the problem showing).  Instead, the game now looks for the first tile above a dupe in which to place the 20g CO2. If you have CO2 on the side of lock that it can go to, it will go there.  If you don't have CO2, but have o2 and hydrogen, then the CO2 will go upwards and find a place it can inhabit.  It won't displace the liquid. You can actually design a way to vent the CO2 towards your O2 side, if you don't want to use exosuits by putting an airflow tile above the door. 

Liquid locks that force the dupe to jump work great (as you posted). Unfortunately, this new 20g co2 behavior can occur with just a simple door.  It's a problem that got introduced with a fix to another problem.  

[psusi]

I noticed something like this the other day.  I was trying to cheap out on a temporary liquid lock while setting up a steam turbine so I didn't fill the entire T of the lock with water but only had some water in the right elbow.  I noticed dupes kept exhaling CO2 into the vacuum side.  Filling the T prevented this, so I guess like @Neotuck said, they can pull O2 from a tile away and then emit CO2.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, psusi said:

I noticed something like this the other day.  I was trying to cheap out on a temporary liquid lock while setting up a steam turbine so I didn't fill the entire T of the lock with water but only had some water in the right elbow.  I noticed dupes kept exhaling CO2 into the vacuum side.  Filling the T prevented this, so I guess like @Neotuck said, they can pull O2 from a tile away and then emit CO2.

Interesting. I have been tempted to use ElCheapo locks like this. Now I have a reason not to.

[psusi]

I had an emergency screwup fix last week.  I realized that I somehow had sealed a hydrogen reservoir in my mini coolrod spom that was only made out of copper instead of gold amalgam and so it finally started to overheat.  This room also had crude oil on the ground to trick the vent so the room also doubled as an infinite storage for any hydrogen that didn't fit in the reservoir.  Just outside the insulated wall the floor was one tile lower so I just took out two pieces of the insulated wall and a bit of the crude spilled down and out but enough remained to prevent the hydrogen from leaking out of the room and dupes could climb up and in to replace the gas reservoir with a gold one, and I sealed the room back up no problem.  So in this case, the elcheapo lock worked nicely since I had everyone in that area in atmo suits, especially since I didn't want them getting popped eardrumssfrom the hydrogen.

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

I have been tempted to use ElCheapo locks like this. Now I have a reason not to.

As long as you know the limitations, you can abuse ElCheapo like mad.   If you use a 2 tile high el cheapo, then the co2 does not occupy the vacuum side. 10g of two liquids is amazing stuff.

[Tobruk]

12 hours ago, mathmanican said:

You probably have a water lock under the area, or mechanical doors, and so when they exhale the gas goes up until it finds a tile it can occupy.  If that requires a 62 tile upward jump, it doesn't matter. 

A similar issue I noticed is that shove voles will teleport regurgitated regolith upwards through tiles in the same manner as you describe, if they are walking on the ceiling while regurgitating.

[OxCD]

29 minutes ago, Tobruk said:

A similar issue I noticed is that shove voles will teleport regurgitated regolith upwards through tiles in the same manner as you describe, if they are walking on the ceiling while regurgitating.

Yes, and that's annoying...

 

9 hours ago, Neotuck said:

when dupes jump though liquids, they don't get "soggy feet"

That info. Damn ! Thanks for it

[GZackham]

15 hours ago, Neotuck said:

They shouldn't, however depending on how you made the airlock some CO2 can slip though

can you provide a screenshot?

It is the most simple airlock, A pneumatic door with its 2 tiles occupied by 2 different liquid. I use salt water for the bottom tile and water for the above tile, both of them are approximately 40 g, which is the minimum amount that liquid will not flow away anymore. There is no other appended structure for the airlock.

[angrybovine]

2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

As long as you know the limitations, you can abuse ElCheapo like mad.   If you use a 2 tile high el cheapo, then the co2 does not occupy the vacuum side. 10g of two liquids is amazing stuff.

Makes me feel less bad about taking the lazy method and rush for suits and keep them in it from wakeup to bedtime.  Its still lazy as hell, but its a method to avoid this (had no idea that the CO2 would teleport like that).  Solves a few mysteries in my past colonies no doubt.

[GZackham]

@Neotuck

Your demonstration of dupe's breathing condition is clear enough, thank you for that.

I have also thought about this problem: why I never see dupes stop breathing when they exhale CO2. The CO2 should occupy the tile they are currently standing in but they can still continuously breath. So the point is the breathing algorithm no only try the exact tile they are standing in, but also try to find a tile around them to inhale. If success, then try to find a valid tile to emit CO2, and tiles around them are in consideration.

So personally my choice of solving this problem is making them wearing suit for all day, I feel this solution maybe expensive at early game, but later it will be mandatory to wear suits to explore oil and space biome, so it is still acceptable to invest on suit wearing.

[MilkyWay8]

The problem with water, salt water, ethanol or brine waterlocks, that if the duplicants carry hot debris through, it tends to evaporate. Sometimes i see salt inside the 4 tile airlocks.

[Gurgel]

10 hours ago, Tobruk said:

A similar issue I noticed is that shove voles will teleport regurgitated regolith upwards through tiles in the same manner as you describe, if they are walking on the ceiling while regurgitating.

Yes. Very, very annoying.