10 ilogical things in ONI

[tzionut]

As the title said, here are a list whit all the ilogical things in ONI, whit proofs whit easy solution, but the developers never implemented/ changed and leave it this shape and ruined (at least for me) the game.

1 data disk - as you see in spoiler (as i waiting for LH to fill my reservoirs and finish the game), after researching all the planets, and all the rocket parts I am stuck whit 5892,896 data disk who fill my storage bin and are useless one you finish the rocket research. The solution is simple. They are organic. Make data disk compostable. Or even better but harder to make posible. Load them in the comand module for reducing the rocket travel time. You decide the anount / 10 kKM

Spoiler

2 Space artefacts. As you can see I get same low level tipe of artefact many time and we don't have the posibility to scrape them and keep only one tipe if we want. Some players gather then in a corner, others leave them in the bottom of the silo floor. Solution. Load them in the molecular forge, or skill scruber or a new building and from 3 artefacts  loaded, merge them and get a new random one.

3 Abyssalite. This one is requested at least from me from the Space upgrade when you can no more converted to sand by the rock crusher. In spoiler you have one prints of my 1295 cycle game. I escavated aprox. 60t of abyssalite and used atmost all my polluted water to grow thimble reeds and get reed fiber in this way, and in 1295 cycle I still have 4.5 t of uncrushable abyssalite. The abyss bugs aren't a solution. One abyss bug eat 0.8 kg of abyssalite.You will need 100 bugs for eating 80 kg, or convert it to insuation.As you see i converted most of my bugs (i saved all, and prinded more when they were abailable on the print pod) to abyss bugs and from 1000 to 1295 cycle they eat almost 300 kg, and I never escavated all the bioms or enter the magma area. Only up  to space for isoresin and down to crude oil.

Spoiler

4. planet resources distribution. In spoiler you wave several examples

Spoiler

1 useless you get more abyssalite than isoresin

2 useless you will have unusable diamonds and 0.125 kg of refined carbon

3 someway good but you will need to get rid of the fulerene

4. Ok if you want niobium and you can melt or use coper and iron

5 no isoresin

6 why i want more abyssalite?

Same here

Useless

same here

Unusable diamnond and refined carbon

no comment

no isoresin

An i can go on an on and on. I can use only 4 planets for isoresin, 2 for niobium, and 3 for fulerene

5. criters (pacu) pathing, It doesn't mater the size of the pool you have, they will swim always to the right, get cramped and don't lay eggs, reducing the numer to several pacu. The only way to prevent this and save all your pacu is to build one separate reservoir for each pacu....

Spoiler

6 shine bugs ilumination. It doesn,t mater the type of bugs. All light 1800 lux (except abyss). In spoiler you have profs

Spoiler

Coral bugs 1800 lux

Azure bugs 1800 lux

 

7 Report meniu. It slow the save game time, for me no use. Give us the posibility to disable it from the meniu like the save game periodicity.

8 Germs in game. Even if you pick only biohazardus dupes, they are imune once they wear the atmosuit. Why bother buid one unused sickbay once you have atmosuits? And why you dedide to have medicine and medical suply?

9 Rocket travel time. I needed more than 500 cycle whit 2 rocket for reaching and researching all the planets. This is insane. I imported the gas moo and the dasha saltvine because i was bored. You have ideas. Make rocket travelfaster using data disk, or other methods. You decide.

10. Lava pumps, none in game. Why put lava in game if you don't give playes the posibility to use it in the finish game. I was atracted to the game because i was able to experiment like melting regolith or mafic rock, but transporting lava from the bootm part to the space or any part of the base is a mess once the dupe get to rest period, and drop the bottle of lava. You can move the lava using door compresors, or the range of the pumps, or gases to pump the lava, but this are exploits in my opinion.

[psusi]

36 minutes ago, tzionut said:

5. criters (pacu) pathing, It doesn't mater the size of the pool you have, they will swim always to the right, get cramped and don't lay eggs, reducing the numer to several pacu. The only way to prevent this and save all your pacu is to build one separate reservoir for each pacu....

It doesn't matter where they are; they get cramped because there are too many in the room.  Same goes for all critters.  A max size ranch of 96 tiles will only support 6 critters before they become cramped.  Pacu are a bit funny in that you don't want to ranch them properly because they eat a ridiculous amount of algae, so instead you want to feed one only one or two kg of algae at a time to get them to lay one more egg, then put all of the eggs in a room where they can be cramped, glum, and as long as you remove the eggs to another room where they can hatch and then be sent back to the main room, all of the cramped and glum pacu will still lay one egg to replace themselves before they die.

I agree with the rest of your points though.

[lee1026]

Space definitely need a balance pass on work/reward. Through I am really curious why the last time they did a balance pass, they decided to nerf the hell out of space rewards by making space destinations not infinite.

[tzionut]

This one is simple. They wanted you to go to further once the closest planet finish. There are players who send 10 rockets to the same planet, and never bother to send to 40 - 90 k km planets...

[OxCD]

I agree with point n°1, and the idea you suggest. (So the n°9 is following).

For me n°2 is illogical, mixing a blender and a mug cannot "create" a Rubik's Cube, sorry ^^

About Pacu, I've never noticed the point you've spotted on, but I'm ready to agree if I've to deal one day with this issue. The worst thing about Pacu for me, is the freaking high algae consumption. Except by "abusing" game mechanism, no one is ranching Pacu. Most of us are just endding up dropping all Pacu into a wild pool, and letting them doing the stuff to get free shell & food.

For the planets, not all map have everything, also depending on traits, and RNG. You can find nearly everything in Space, so you should be able to create an answer to any problem (one issue is still here, the bandwidth of the supply (rocket time travel)). Same for rare ressources, not every planet have everything. For me it is logical. I don't feel any need for modification here, sorry again ^^

Lava pump neither. There's plenty of way to use it without pumping/moving it. And that brings challenge. I don't feel any need.

For germs, I think there's something to do. Nerfing the atmo would be annoying for me (or why not creating different atmo quality ? Some, as cheap as existing one, have some failure in the filtering system, and others, better quality (space material ?) are 100% secure ? Or some are against sickness, some for cold, some for heat, some for void ? For example). But the thing is sickness is not a problem anymore. No one care anymore about poisonning (you can use same moldering water for shower, no problem dude, of course !), Slimelung is not dangerous anymore, I don't feel there's any contamination probability, and so on... Make the sickness great again !

All this talk also bring something that keeps popping into my head : useless buildings.

I feel so sad for the devs and the graphic designers to have created something... no one use. All of them SOUND good idea, but with no real purpose anymore...

Ore Scrubber, duplicant checkpoint, fish feeder, hand sanitizer, sick bay (rarely used), disease clinic, gas cargo canister (I would say too small tank to be profitable), sight seeing module, textile loom (missing realy interesting clothing), ice maker & fan (basically pretty limited, "sounds" not useless but never seen someone using it, ever).

There's great concepts & ideas behind those, don't forget them !

[Gurgel]

I fail to see anything "illogical" here. For it to be "illogical", there would need to be a fixed axiom system and a derivation that shows these things are not in it. Oh, wait, there is there _is_ such an axiom system, namely the code of the game, and all the things you described are perfectly logical according to it.

6 hours ago, OxCD said:

Ore Scrubber, duplicant checkpoint, fish feeder, hand sanitizer, sick bay (rarely used), disease clinic, gas cargo canister (I would say too small tank to be profitable), sight seeing module, textile loom (missing realy interesting clothing), ice maker & fan (basically pretty limited, "sounds" not useless but never seen someone using it, ever).

Well, I use more than half of these....

[sheaker]

Agree. For example hand sanitizer is really fast when compare it to sink. Bleach stone is just a side effect of ranching pufts. I am using gas canisters to transport hydrogen to far away buildings in space. Checkpoints (those from dock station?) everywhere where is hot - oil biome.

[OxCD]

19 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Well, I use more than half of these....

Duh ? Light me up ^^

10 minutes ago, sheaker said:

Agree. For example hand sanitizer is really fast when compare it to sink. Bleach stone is just a side effect of ranching pufts. I am using gas canisters to transport hydrogen to far away buildings in space. Checkpoints (those from dock station?) everywhere where is hot - oil biome.

So you have hand sanitizer in the middle of your base, right after toilets ? I really don't like Chlorine pockets dragging around my base... But I wasn't aware of those beeing faster than sink, good to know. But I mean, Hand Sanitizer were mainly supposed to bring better germ cleaning, but since germs has nearly no effect now...

Gas canister : I'm talking about the tank for the rocket ("Gas CARGO canister"). The canister filler IS usefull. Same for "Duplicant Checkpoint" : it's the automated door called... "Duplicant Checkpoint", not the Atmosuit Checkpoint. Atmosuit Checkpoint IS usefull.

[lee1026]

12 hours ago, tzionut said:

This one is simple. They wanted you to go to further once the closest planet finish. There are players who send 10 rockets to the same planet, and never bother to send to 40 - 90 k km planets...

Through people still don't bother sending rockets to those planets as the ROI just isn't there.

[sheaker]

3 minutes ago, OxCD said:

I really don't like Chlorine pockets dragging around my base...

They do not release chlorine. If You seal Your geyser well enough then You should face no chlorine in base. Sometimes duplicants dropping what they are carrying while they shift is over. This is the only way to release chlorine.

I am already using wild critters so no one is entering the room.

[OxCD]

29 minutes ago, sheaker said:

They do not release chlorine. If You seal Your geyser well enough then You should face no chlorine in base. Sometimes duplicants dropping what they are carrying while they shift is over. This is the only way to release chlorine.

I am already using wild critters so no one is entering the room.

That's exactly what I'm talking about (not the geyser, I've no more issue with geyser for long, nor the puft ranching). When they drop the bleach stone, or also when they are carrying it (if you don't have 2kg/tile pressure, or if the dup come accross a tiny CO2 pocket. Once is enough). You'll ended up with tiny Chlorine pockets into your base. Clearly the following is me, but I don't like it at all. In my base, there's perfect O2 level everywhere, few CO2 on the bottom for Oxyfern, and nothing else, or it makes me sick ^^

[psusi]

7 hours ago, OxCD said:

For the planets, not all map have everything, also depending on traits, and RNG. You can find nearly everything in Space, so you should be able to create an answer to any problem (one issue is still here, the bandwidth of the supply (rocket time travel)). Same for rare ressources, not every planet have everything. For me it is logical. I don't feel any need for modification here, sorry again ^^

On some maps you might be missing one or two mundane things that you might need to go further than 40 km to get, but still, you never visit most of the planets that far out.

7 hours ago, OxCD said:

Ore Scrubber, duplicant checkpoint, fish feeder, hand sanitizer, sick bay (rarely used), disease clinic, gas cargo canister (I would say too small tank to be profitable), sight seeing module, textile loom (missing realy interesting clothing), ice maker & fan (basically pretty limited, "sounds" not useless but never seen someone using it, ever).

The fish feeder you have to use to breed pacu even if you stop using it once you have enough.  Since you only mentioned the gas cargo canister, does that imply that you use the liquid one?  That seems useless to me too.  The ice maker and fan are quite useful.  Especially early game before you build a steam turbine, they are very handy for keeping mealwood cool enough to grow.  Even late game I still use them every now and then when the mealwood in my drakeo range gets too hot.

By the way, I swear that back before they added the disease clinic, a dupe with slimelung would go lay down in a triage cot, but now they won't.  Why did they nerf that?

31 minutes ago, sheaker said:

They do not release chlorine. If You seal Your geyser well enough then You should face no chlorine in base. Sometimes duplicants dropping what they are carrying while they shift is over. This is the only way to release chlorine.

Once the bleach stone is in the building it won't off-gas?  That's odd... I wonder why polluted water still off-gasses while inside a metal refinery then?

[Christopherus]

Once the bleach stone is in the building it won't off-gas?  That's odd... I wonder why polluted water still off-gasses while inside a metal refinery then?

That isn’t the case anymore - and for quite some time. 

[psusi]

31 minutes ago, Christopherus said:

That isn’t the case anymore - and for quite some time. 

Oh really?  Nice... they must have changed that during my hiatus.  What other buildings did they do this with?  What about fuel sitting in an idle petrol gen?  Does that still exchange heat with the environment as if it were debris?

[tzionut]

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Same for rare ressources, not every planet have everything. For me it is logical. I don't feel any need for modification here, sorry again

If the resource i want is isoresin for converting abyssalite, why have planets whit abyssalite and isoresin? That planet is useles because you bring back more than you consume...You see my point.... And in my current game 80% of planets i can't use

In my curent game all the converted supercoolant is droped to space, and i have more then 100 kg of fulerene ins storage . (i needed for my base only 1000 kg), the rest is undesired resources from space... you se my point.

Is better to get back not 1000 kg whit all the resoures, but only what resources you want. It can be same quantity but in this way you can chose to send a rocket for 122 kg of isoresin and nothing elese, instead of 122 kg of isoresin, 230 kg of abyssalite, 285 kg of mafic rock and anything else.

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I am using gas canisters to transport hydrogen to far away buildings in space.

And this one is my favorite. We can't replace drywall whit solid tiles in space, and same in reverse, After I fill a room whit hydrogen or watever gas you want, you loose gas from the moment you deconstruct the dryiwall, take the resource and put to storage, bring resource for the tile, and build the tile. If you are unlucky 4 dupes make this operation, and the 4-th dupe is the slowest, losing up to half of the gas in the room.

Quote

Lava pump neither. There's plenty of way to use it without pumping/moving it. And that brings challenge. I don't feel any need

Again, you don't transport magma whit bottle to the space area, you don't melt regoith or mafic rock and vent it to space in liquid state, you don't get the frustation when a slow dupe drop the lava bottle, and that bottle melt your transit tube, and evaporate all the naptha in sour gas....

Why pump lava using exploits, when i want to make same result using the game buildings.

Quote

For me n°2 is illogical, mixing a blender and a mug cannot "create" a Rubik's Cube, sorry

The idea is to get rid of the unwanter space artifacts, it can be a building that convert 3 space artifacts in 1 new one, or a building that evaporate all unused resources and items (like an recycle been). Te sky is the limit.

Like suits. I prefere a way to recover the resources of the suits. I played games whit only 8 dupe and found in lockers 13 suits... you see the point? Why bother building the textile loom? I gladly build it if help me get rid of that unused suits. Same whit atmo suits...

I don't see the point of having more than one neural vacillator, it soud be deconstructible like AETNs, or why vending machines, or tables, can't be deconstructed once you don't have more lore to discover.

There are so many things that piss of the players, for me is the flipping of the resources list, and the ghost grafic elements of the rocket, or the ghost unbuilded liquid pipe, or electric wires, but the most iritating thing is the 2500 grams of steel left in inventory because a rocket busted my silo door because i didn't have power, or the 0.954 kg of coal because the coal generator never burn it, 0.286 kg of data disk because the virtual planetarium finish all the research, and tones, and tones of abyssalite.

 

 

[TheMule]

6 hours ago, psusi said:

you never visit most of the planets that far out.

What a coincidence, I've just sent two cargo rockets to a planet in the 100.000 ring... after sending a 2 two research modules rocket to it. 

https://imgur.com/a/1TTy5GC

Well isoresin would have been better, but I'm not complaining...

[Artorias36]

9 hours ago, sheaker said:

They do not release chlorine. If You seal Your geyser well enough then You should face no chlorine in base. Sometimes duplicants dropping what they are carrying while they shift is over. This is the only way to release chlorine.

I am already using wild critters so no one is entering the room.

They do. When a dupe use the bleach stone to supply the creation of the sanitizer they release a small amount of clorine, few grams. Not sure if it is a bug but everytime you build a sanitizer you get some chlorine.

[tzionut]

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They do. When a dupe use the bleach stone to supply the creation of the sanitizer they release a small amount of clorine, few grams. Not sure if it is a bug but everytime you build a sanitizer you get some chlorine.

I used the sanitizer inside the base and the 3 cases in witch the bleach stone offgas are:

1 when you build the sanitizer from the moment the dupe deliver the bleach stone to the finishing of the sanitizer.

2 when the dupe drop the bleach stone intended for resupplying the sanitizer because brake

3 when you deconstruct the sanitizer, from the moment the sanitizer is deconstructed to the moment the dupe pick the bleach stone from the floor and take it to storage 

 

Quote

What a coincidence, I've just sent two cargo rockets to a planet in the 100.000 ring... after sending a 2 two research modules rocket to it.

Yes but most of the players before the limits of the resources of the planets send rockets 50k km max. I sended to 90kkm to the gases planets, but again the polluted water bottleneck prevent me for use most of the abyssalite in the map. I didn't get yet to convert 60t....and in any asteroid is more than that... much more.  

[TheMule]

6 hours ago, tzionut said:

polluted water bottleneck prevent me for use most of the abyssalite in the map

Look, I don't agree at all with your pov.

I simply don't call random things illogical. I don't think it's illogical if there are water weed seeds in my game but no chlorine geyser. Just like I don't find it illogical if, while playing poker, I get 3 aces but not the fourth. I mean, the game is called 'poker', right? Why giving me 3 aces and not the fouth one? No. It doesn't work like that. Actually I would be illogical if it worked like that.

Random things are just like that, random, and there's nothing illogical in the concept. Just like when playing cards you may get a card (at random) that is completely useless, in a randomly generated map there are resources that are useless. It sounds perfectly logical to me. Not everything the game provides can be useful, otherwise it would be the opposite of random. It would be carefully and deliberately balanced.

So it's perfectly fine - and logical - that most of some resources in the map can't be turn into something useful. The entire game is based on that premise. You are stranded on a planet you're not supposed to be on in the first place. It's not a carefully crafted paradise some entity created for you where everything fulfils the purpose of being useful to you.

To assume that every single bit of resources you encounter on it must have an use for you is completely illogical.

All that said,

On 4/29/2020 at 3:32 AM, tzionut said:

useless you get more abyssalite than isoresin

 

7 hours ago, tzionut said:

the polluted water bottleneck prevent me for use most of the abyssalite in the map

I don't get the connection between the amount of abyssalite and isoresin or polluted water...

[psusi]

13 hours ago, TheMule said:

What a coincidence, I've just sent two cargo rockets to a planet in the 100.000 ring... after sending a 2 two research modules rocket to it. 

What the heck for?  You must have isoresin on a closer planet.

[TheMule]

7 minutes ago, psusi said:

What the heck for?  You must have isoresin on a closer planet.

Have you seen the pic? Question: how much fullerene do you usually get with a single trip? 1-2 kg?

https://imgur.com/a/xhoPlzD

how many trips do you need to closer planets to get 2t of fullerene? Because that's the result of my first trip. And I know I'm overdoing it now, I've sent two rockets there with 2 cargo modules each, so I'm gonna get another 4t of fullerene, which is more than I'd ever need in this current playthrough, more than I've ever used in all previouse playthroughs and more than I'll use in all future playthroughs. I'm doing it because I can basicly. Later I'm gonna investigate the planet more, and hopefully the 4th resource is something useful (isoresin) and not niobium or abyssalite.

I wasn't able to explore the whole map yet but so far I haven't found any gold volcano so maybe that's the limiting factor here but fullerere-wise I could make 600t of supercoolant.

 

Anyway the point I'm making is that randomness - by definition - may play in your favor or against you, and there's nothing illogical about that.

If I find abyssalite as the 4th resources it would make that planet at 100k almost useless. If it's niobium well, I have already 12t of thermium after possibily 100 cycles since the space program started, I doubt I'll really ever need more than that unless I do something really crazy on purpose. I can stop farming for niobium now. So it would make that planet useless too.

If it's isoresin, I can farm that planet for 2t of it (minus 'trace amounts' of fullerene) per trip, until it's depleted. Once depleted, it has 1/10 of the replenish rate of the closer planet, which has only 10% isoresin tho. So it's 16.6kg/cycle of isoresin for both planets of course fuel wise isn't the same.

I should have risked it and explored it before sending the two ongoing rockets, yes. I mean 2t of fullerene are more than enough already. But again sometimes you do stuff only because you feel like to. 

 

[psusi]

6 minutes ago, TheMule said:

Have you seen the pic? Question: how much fullerene do you usually get with a single trip? 1-2 kg?

Ohh, it's the only solid!  Nice.  Still that's like one out of more than a dozen planets that are worth visiting.

[TheMule]

42 minutes ago, psusi said:

Ohh, it's the only solid!  Nice.  Still that's like one out of more than a dozen planets that are worth visiting.

Yup. It's no different from geysers. You see neutronium, you have to discover which type of geyser it is. It might be super useful or super useless, or something in between. I don't assume every single geyser is useful. Likewise, I don't assume every single planet is useful. Again, random.

[tzionut]

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I don't get the connection between the amount of abyssalite and isoresin or polluted water...

Simple. Abyssalite can't be crushed and converted to sand. The only way to crush it is to convert it to insulation and crush it to sand. For 100 kg of insulation you need 15 kg isoresin, 5 reed fibre and 80 kg of abyssalite. When you escavate a 500kg tile you will get 250 kg of abysalite, so you will need more than 20 reed fibre, and 60 kg of isoresin for crushing the abyssalite you escavated.

For geting reed fibre more faster (at least in the ritm of you get isoresin) you need polluted water at 22 - 37 degrees for thimble reeds...

In my esperience if you pach all the dreckos in one wild farm, and shave them for reed fible, convert all the shine bugs in wild abyss bugs and feed them abyssalite (done that 2 times already), convert all the CO2 in the asteroit finded or generated in polluted water, all the toilet polluted water,  the polluted water generated from the natural gas generators, the poluted water and the co2 from the petroleum generators, melted all the polluted ice, or even capture and convert all the ehaust CO2 from rockets, or meteors, you don't have enought polluted water for feedind the thimble reeds for geting reed fibre for converting abyssalite into insulation and dispose of it by crushing and converting to sand who can be melted in magma and vented to space, or feeded to hatches and converted to coal who get bunr and the co2 converted to more polluted water.

As i said before abyss bugs isn't a solution. This is the reason why you will find 2 tipe of players. The players who escavate all and store it to one corner, and the players who escavate all except the wals of abyssalite.

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What the heck for?  You must have isoresin on a closer planet.

When i send a rocket for isoresin i send to the planets who have resources i can get rid off by crushing, melting and disposi it to space, venting to space, using or converting in other resources. Anything else is useless.

For me is ilogical to have planets whit more abyssalite than isoresin, or have 7 - 12 type of the same space artefacts, and no posibility to dispose them...

[TheMule]

1 hour ago, tzionut said:

In my esperience if you pach all the dreckos in one wild farm,

Why wild. You can ranch them. There're pratical limits (fps) in the number your PC can handle but that's another matter. You're not confined to wild drecko ranching. There's no upper limit in the fiber produced other than what your hardware can handle, and no polluted water is involved.

And I still don't get why you assume you should be able to crush everything in the first place.